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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 18, 2020 3:04:22 GMT -5
Taken from a conversation I was having with @terra in this thread: wcrpforums.com/thread/79035/favorite-book-arcSo I've only read the first book and a half of DotC, and the reason for that is I hated those books so much I didn't find the arc worth continuing, despite the constant cries of "It gets better later". (If you want to see my reasons, go look at the other thread). But I noticed something. Almost every DotC fan says the first few books suck, but the rest of the arc more than makes up for it. When pressed for a specific book where the quality improves, all of them say Book 3. Like... ALL of them. Everyone seems to be in agreement that Books 1 and 2 are bad, or at the very least not up to par with the rest of the arc. Completely separately from that, one of my primary reasons for hating TST and the first half of ThR was because I felt like the wrong POV was chosen. To steal a line from my other post, ALL of the major conflict in TST happens to, around, because of, or in the presence of Clear Sky. And yet Gray Wing is our sole POV. I really feel like more than half the problems I had with the book would be solved instantaneously if we just got a peek inside Clear Sky's head from the beginning. He doesn't have to be the only POV, he can split with Gray Wing. It's just important that we get at least some chapters with him. So when I was talking to Terra, I realized that maybe those two things have something to do with each other. Everyone says the quality jumps up in Book 3, which is also the book that Clear Sky has a POV for the first time. So my question for this thread is twofold. First: What are some reasons you think DotC got better later on? Do you think it has anything to do with Clear Sky's POV? And second: Do you think Clear Sky should have had a POV in The Sun Trail and Thunder Rising? Don't worry about spoilers, by the way. I've been here long enough that nothing is a secret from me, lol.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 18, 2020 3:45:00 GMT -5
Clear Sky is already one of my favorite characters, so I wouldn't have minded it, even as a bonus chapter (think Feathertail from Moonrise), but I think it's fine that his PoV was introduced in the third book.
Interestingly enough though, I think the arc got better because Clear Sky got a PoV, thus making things more interesting in terms of seeing both sides of the conflict. Though then again, even if I do love DotC, the only books I actually liked were The First Battle and The Blazing Star, two books that focus on Clear Sky's further downward spiral and motivations as well as his eventual redemption (everything else I thought was just decent).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 4:29:25 GMT -5
As a Skystar stan, I don't think he should have. I like the books and their way of adding protagonists as they are. The Sun Trail has Gray Wing. Thunder Rising has Gray Wing and Thunder. The First Battle has Gray Wing, Thunder and Clear Sky. Book 1 has 1 POV, Book 2 has 2 and Book 3 has 3. I like that!
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Post by StormPlayz on Sept 18, 2020 7:30:21 GMT -5
As a Skystar stan, I don't think he should have. I like the books and their way of adding protagonists as they are. The Sun Trail has Gray Wing. Thunder Rising has Gray Wing and Thunder. The First Battle has Gray Wing, Thunder and Clear Sky. Book 1 has 1 POV, Book 2 has 2 and Book 3 has 3. I like that! I never thought of that, that's a good point. Although personally, I thought it would have been interesting to see Clear Sky's motivation for immediately closing his border, getting 'guards,' etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 7:34:38 GMT -5
As a Skystar stan, I don't think he should have. I like the books and their way of adding protagonists as they are. The Sun Trail has Gray Wing. Thunder Rising has Gray Wing and Thunder. The First Battle has Gray Wing, Thunder and Clear Sky. Book 1 has 1 POV, Book 2 has 2 and Book 3 has 3. I like that! I never thought of that, that's a good point. Although personally, I thought it would have been interesting to see Clear Sky's motivation for immediately closing his border, getting 'guards,' etc. I mean, we know his motivations very well, he explained them himself, and we also saw them in The First Battle where he first had his POV. That's also before he changes
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 18, 2020 7:54:11 GMT -5
I never thought of that, that's a good point. Although personally, I thought it would have been interesting to see Clear Sky's motivation for immediately closing his border, getting 'guards,' etc. I mean, we know his motivations very well, he explained them himself, and we also saw them in The First Battle where he first had his POV. That's also before he changes I agree! His motive is very clearly stated in the first chapter of the third book—he let his grief and desperation consume him so much that it ended up turning him into a monster. And that's partially why I love him so much, how different he is from other antagonists. It's also really interesting looking back, to think just how important Fluttering Bird really was, both to him and the formation of the Clans as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 8:34:26 GMT -5
I don't think so. But before I go off the deep end, I'm going to say that Clear Sky is definitely my favourite character in warriors, so I'm super biased on anything related to him in the books. If you were to give him a perspective in the first two books, it would lessen how interesting seeing his perspective was when he starts to be considered an antagonist. Thunder serves his purpose perfectly as a camera into proto-SkyClan, and I think seeing Clear Sky's jaded view from his own eyes wouldn't be as impactful as it was in TFB, and seeing it right as tensions were about to blow up makes it all the more interesting. Gray Wing is a much better narrator for the first book, as he's a bit of a stand-in for a reader, being all neutral and what not. About half of Thunder's book is his astranged relationship with his crazy dad, and if you were to see how Clear Sky rationalises stuff in his head early-on it would break the flow of the story. One thing DOTC did great was how it eased in its characters; book 1 had gray wing, book 2 added thunder, book 3 added clear sky, you get the idea. DOTC's pacing was one of its stronger areas. The Sun Trail more or less sets the stage for Clear Sky's actions in the second and third books. TFB was a perfect place to start exposing the cracks in his jaded personality, as he's already an established character - and I think that seeing someone else experience his terrible actions first makes it more interesting to see his take on things, like seeing Gray Wing as an antagonist really shakes it up. And, it sets the stage for how he gets totally knocked down in books 4 and 5, where his emotions and motives get a lot more screen time; 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 worded it perfectly in that he's consumed by desparation and grief, and I all the more think seeing how his mind works should be reserved for when he gets knocked down a peg, to humanise him where the books have, before this, done quite the opposite. I'm going to agree with cinder again and say that a bonus chapter would've also been awesome. I'm pretty sure book 3 or 4 had a POV of River Ripple when he was with the Park Cats, and something like a flashback to the mountains for Clear Sky at the end of book 2 would be nice.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 9:40:13 GMT -5
I don't think so. But before I go off the deep end, I'm going to say that Clear Sky is definitely my favourite character in warriors, so I'm super biased on anything related to him in the books. If you were to give him a perspective in the first two books, it would lessen how interesting seeing his perspective was when he starts to be considered an antagonist. Thunder serves his purpose perfectly as a camera into proto-SkyClan, and I think seeing Clear Sky's jaded view from his own eyes wouldn't be as impactful as it was in TFB, and seeing it right as tensions were about to blow up makes it all the more interesting. Gray Wing is a much better narrator for the first book, as he's a bit of a stand-in for a reader, being all neutral and what not. About half of Thunder's book is his astranged relationship with his crazy dad, and if you were to see how Clear Sky rationalises stuff in his head early-on it would break the flow of the story. One thing DOTC did great was how it eased in its characters; book 1 had gray wing, book 2 added thunder, book 3 added clear sky, you get the idea. DOTC's pacing was one of its stronger areas. The Sun Trail more or less sets the stage for Clear Sky's actions in the second and third books. TFB was a perfect place to start exposing the cracks in his jaded personality, as he's already an established character - and I think that seeing someone else experience his terrible actions first makes it more interesting to see his take on things, like seeing Gray Wing as an antagonist really shakes it up. And, it sets the stage for how he gets totally knocked down in books 4 and 5, where his emotions and motives get a lot more screen time; 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 worded it perfectly in that he's consumed by desparation and grief, and I all the more think seeing how his mind works should be reserved for when he gets knocked down a peg, to humanise him where the books have, before this, done quite the opposite. I'm going to agree with cinder again and say that a bonus chapter would've also been awesome. I'm pretty sure book 3 or 4 had a POV of River Ripple when he was with the Park Cats, and something like a flashback to the mountains for Clear Sky at the end of book 2 would be nice. OMG another person who’s favorite character in Warriors is Skystar!!! He’s been my favorite for ages too, this is awesome <3 Welcome to the Skystar stan club! You’ve made some really good points! Just one thing , Riverstar has his scene in book 2 actually, not 3 or 4, so it wouldn’t be possible for Skystar to have one in book 2
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