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Post by Amber on Dec 31, 2020 3:01:25 GMT -5
Ah look at me randomly replying to some things and not others, especially when I was in the middle of a conversarion or should be finishing my replies. Unimportant, but my family and I have gone on a somewhat surprise trip. Nothing big, just rented a cabin for a few days and have been cooped up here for the most part. It's nice and I like the scenery Anyway mossecho, Avani is most definitely a hugger.
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Post by mossecho on Dec 31, 2020 3:04:26 GMT -5
Have fun with the trip! Admittedly I've never been to a cabin closest I've been to a cabin was a house that was four blocks away from a lake and seemingly a thousand miles from a city, but honestly anywhere that isn't a city for me is hella rural and middle-of-no-where
Avani would probably give the best hugs <3
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Rainbow
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Starchaser
barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Dec 31, 2020 4:28:13 GMT -5
mossecho What else is there to do when it's late and you're procrastinating xD tbh i don't have much else going on for me, the most interesting part of my life right now is worldbuilding and being overly-invested in an RP (and thinking a lot about said RP)
Oh, no worries! Honestly, the reason I talk about my characters so much (too much, it feels like),is because I also feel hesitant to speculate a lot about other people's characters and Families. I have been a bit more involved in the other Families and their features than I planned, but I suppose part of that is because I have so many characters from all of them, and I really like to get a sense for their background before I try to RP them (and I just really like worldbuilding and filling out sections of information). If I have overstepped my bounds though (@ everyone, tbh), feel free to tell me to shut up. I get that I involve myself a lot in the worldbuilding, I blame it on the writer in me, but I definitely don't want to take control of everything and shut other people down. I feel like I speculate on other peoples' characters, but I try not to present my thoughts as truth, I'm just really into analyzing everything. That said, I try to only go off of their interactions and just think about the reasoning behind their actions and finding patterns in their behavior, rather than... idk, predicting canon? I like to hear what other people have in mind, but most of my questions just come out as my ponderances on the topic. I have no clue how to word this, but anyways. I don't want to tread on anyone's work or area either, so if I happen to, apologies for that in advance. And, of course, you can correct me if I'm wrong in what I imagine/speculate.
I definitely wouldn't get that impression just talking to Alex, but it makes sense given what you've said about vampire culture. I am interested to see how everyone interacts with each other and grows throughout the RP. A lot of why I enjoy RPs so much is because it feels like interactive fiction of sorts. Sometimes I take story characters and throw them out into RP worlds so they can develop more organically. It helps me, anyways. Also, I love that Alex is technically close in age to everyone else, but in his society he's a baby. It's cute <3 He and Lilah are technically the babies of prophecy crew too, though only by a few years. I honestly imagined all of the species except Mages having some sort of extended lifespans, just because it would make sense considering what their magic does. And perhaps because most supernatural creatures in our world have immortality or are otherwise long-lived.
This has reminded me of some thoughts I had, so I apologize for the dump of questions. I was always curious to ask, when do vampires become "old"? You mentioned at some point only gray-haired vampires could use the remote past/personal witness marker together (sorry if I butchered that explanation), so I was wondering how long it takes for them to look old as well. Also, how does their aging work exactly? I assume they'd have to stop physically aging at some point or else being immortal wouldn't be very fun. Or does it just happen extremely slowly? How old are the oldest vampires? Are vampires 100% immortal, or do they reach a point eventually where they would die, it just takes a very long time? I only really ask that because I think living forever would eventually be tiring. Also also, this is a bit unrelated, but you mentioned vampires don't have pulses, only hearts (but they don't beat). So, how does vampire physiology work (I only recall Alex saying they had more efficient methods now)? They breathe, but how does oxygen get transported? For that matter, how does their blood circulate (since they do have blood, as we have seen)? Basically, give me all the info and ideas about vampire biology. No pressure intended though, if you haven't thought about it or just don't really wanna type all that up, it just popped in my mind and I wanted to ask before I forgot again. I must be fed.
I write a ton for this world even outside of RP. Mainly snippets and short stories, or AUs and theoretical ideas. They're mostly just about my characters since I don't think I can write anyone else's character well enough (not even from their perspective, I wouldn't even try that, but I just don't want to get their reactions/dialogue wrong either), but it's nice to develop mine more. Also, same about not knowing how characters will act. I'm usually somewhat surprised by them as other RPers. I get the aversion to a very explosive type of anger, it can get dangerous easily, especially given how physically powerful most of the characters (heck entire species in this world) are. It's not something I'm very comfortable with either, and it once again does make sense in the context of vampire society. I never really got the vibe that Alex would be (here I am, speculating about characters) prone towards that type of anger either.
Honestly, Alex might be the strongest physically in the group. I'm kind of uncertain about everyone's ability though, just since most of the magic types make their users stronger than "average" (for our world). I also don't want to make too many assumptions about people's characters, but I think Belua is the magic that would be most prone to giving its users physical strength. Heavenlys have enhanced physical condition as well, but I think theirs leans more towards the regenerative/durability side of it, while Shifters are the most powerful. Shifters also tend to have the most experience with fighting, but I think Heavenlys are good with physical combat too, so they might be better in terms of strategy and skill. Avani is probably strong even by Heavenly standards, but I'm not sure how that measures up to the other species.
I can only speak with full certainty about my characters, but Caspian and Lilah are probably the physically weakest of the group. Caspian definitely is the stronger of the two, and he has a lot more experience when it comes to fighting. I'd say he's stronger than most average Elementals, but that really doesn't mean much when compared to the other Families, or our group (Avani and Clari are both already physically strong, but then there's accounting for their literal super strength; while Alex is lanky, but a vampire, which means he's supernaturally powerful). Vis and Anima are the only magics that don't grant physical ability, but Vis does provide a sort of extra durability to the natural elements (namely, elementals are mostly immune to damage from their elements). Mages are given absolutely no benefits or built-in abilities from their magic. Their power relies completely on how well they can perform magic, which is part of why their magic has so much versatility, it gives them a bit of an edge amidst very competitive possible enemies (they're also the only ones who can prove the magical shield and other stuff that benefits the other Families, which works out in their favor). They're basically the underdogs of the Families in terms of physical ability, which may also be why they approach things from a political angle. Lilah in particular has pretty much no physical threat on the others. We've established she's the shortest by a lot, but she's also slightly built and just not really a fighter. If it were down to just a physical battle, she obviously wouldn't be able to hold her own against anyone else from the other Families, or even the vast majority of other mages. She always relied on magic because that's where basically all her power lies, so while she's weak in the traditional sense, she definitely isn't helpless, just not a physical threat.
Cold/tranquil anger is always interesting. I am interested to see how it manifests for Alex. Seeing how different characters deal with different emotions is always intriguing.
Same, I write so much more for RP than my stories. It's just easier for me, and like we've mentioned, I'm able to let go of my perfectionism a bit more. At least in a roleplay I'm not really trying to tell a story. It's more like being in a multiplayer game, where everyone pitches in to the enjoyability, while novels are fully dependent on me to deliver everything (plot, characters, interactions, dynamics, worldbuilding, dialogue, etc.). Also, the ability to be surprised and give organic responses is nice. I love writing, but not being the one to dictate everything is just a breath of fresh air. It's like real life, but safer and more fun. Sure, my characters can suffer the perils of social interaction, but I'm safe and still getting my fix for human contact without actual seeing anyone (: It's a bit like interactive fiction (which I think I already said), but with the added benefit of more freedom. Just, all around, RP provides a lot of nice opportunities.
EDIT: why do i repeat myself so often and always use the same words, i really need to get on a normal sleeping schedule ugh
Amber Ooh, that sounds fun! I hope you have a good vacation : ) Also, I second that, Avani is probably a very good hugger. I think most tall people are, but Avani is just very cuddle-able in general.
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Post by mossecho on Dec 31, 2020 22:53:54 GMT -5
Starchaser : ok so I'm typing this on my phone so idk how comprehensible this post will be (or what works will get autocorrected, my phone has a tendency to think "rp" should become "él" for whatever reason), but we'll see i guess
I really hope you don't feel like you're overstepping your bounds. You're really not. One of the best things about the RP has been the worldbuilding and how collaborative it is. I really don't mind your contributions, seriously. Whenever I refresh WCRF and see a new notification pop up from this RP, there's a little bit of... squee? god that word seems so old xD I don't know how to describe it, but I always look forward to everything everyone has to say. That most definitely includes your worldbuilding rambles <3
Since there are no actual humans in this world (or at least, not yet? I forget if we got rid of them all together or if they're going to show up later or what), I suppose there is no real "basis" for comparing the different Families, if that makes any sense. So if most of the other species have extended lifetimes, that means that Mages would be seen as having short life times as opposed to normal ones. So what for us, as humans, is normal, is really short for most people in the RPverse. Idk, I guess it's just kinda interesting to think about (for me at least).
Oh goodness xD I have many thoughts but they mostly come down to "well idk, magic, immortality, merp ¯\_(ツ)_/¯". As for how vampires age... I honestly think of it like the graph for y=log(x+1), where the domain is [0,infinity). So vampires appear to age normally up until a certain point (maybe early 20s), at which they begin to age noticeably slower (I say they "appear to age normally" just since because they are starting to age slower much younger, but it is barely perceptible). As they get older, they age slower and slower. Like, ridiculously slowly. I am not sure about any of the actual math, so I don't have any precise numbers, but it would take a very long time for anyone to start graying. A long time as in thousands of years. Because there are no vampires still around from before the Cataclysm, no one actually knows what happens when they reach an age physically at which other species would start to die (so when they are physically in their 80s or something, you know). It's never been seen before. There were a few vampires who survived the Cataclysm (all from the Antier coven), but they all died before they reached physical old age. So... no one really knows. which is to say that I don't know what happens because vampires can't get sick so that type of natural death wouldn't happen, but also i don't want someone to keep living as their body just wastes away, so... idk Basically vampires' aging process just takes so long that no one has actually reached a point of great physical old age.
As for how vampire physiology works... idk. Magic? I have no explanation for any of it. Their hearts don't beat because that's a trope in vampire fiction and I figured I'd just keep it. Also they can go a while without breathing, although I don't know if that's due to needing less oxygen than other species or them just not needing oxygen at all. The whole blood-drinking thing is more about absorbing someone's life force than anything else. That leads me to think that vampires don't really need oxygen, hence not having breathing hearts. Although Alex does breathe, so... idk how to explain that. Maybe it's a calming thing. Maybe it's left over from before vampires were, well, vampires. Breathing's a largely automatic function, so I don't see why evolution would get rid of it. There's no advantage to it for vampires, but there's no disadvantage either, so it would just stick around. Maybe it's as functionally useful as goose bumps.
Honestly, now that I got us on the topic of explosive anger, I think Lu would probably lean towards that. She's very expressive. She keeps her heart on her sleeve. Given how giddy and talkative she is, I could see that transitioning into yelling quite easily. It wouldn't get dangerous, for two main reasons. 1. I don't like that idea and 2. Lu is too much of a sweetheart to be dangerous. If you brought her to a street fight, she would come with bandages and pain relievers. She might serve you really hot, badly made tea, but that would be the worst of it. She would still be one for yelling, but even then she wouldn't be all that much of a yeller (from everyone else's perspective. Lu'd probably think she was being sooo loud and sooo angry).
As for who's physically the strongest, I could see Alex being one of the top candidates. He's definitely the fastest and his senses are better than most of the others (idk about how werewolves are with hearing and smell, although I suppose it varies for most other Shifters) (Lu's senses are not enhanced much, although I suppose her sight might be a bit better than an average human's. She also has an excellent sense of direction, of which I am personally jealous) (also I read somewhere that birds' taste is not that great, which is lowkey funny given she essentially works in the restaurant business, but there are chefs irl who can't taste things, so it's fine) (also I am a bit too much of a parenthesis enthusiast xD). I cannot really justify why, other than that's a stereotypically vampire thing so... yeah. I suppose it's just the mix of Belua and Stygian magic. I haven't really thought about the limits of it, but I doubt I'll really have to. Alex isn't one to really... display that sort of thing. Although thinking about how that could be integrated into vampire society does lead me into a "quick" side note about vampires' writing systems... :
Y'ALL I GOT IDEAS Okay, so, we have two writing systems. Writing often has a lot to do with the medium that is being used (straight lines are good for stone, curves are better for ink and brushes, you get it). Back in primitive vampire times, I figure there was not a lot of need for writing. Vampires have good memories and live in close-knit communities, so you don't need to disseminate information via writing that much. However, vampires are also very territorial. They'd want to mark their territory clearly. One could do this by smell, but it would be hard to draw out clear lines this way. Vampires mainly live in forests, so they marked out their territory on trees. Thus, their writing system emerged from these markings. Vampires have retractable claws (lowkey forgot about this until I was rereading the powers & weaknesses section for them) and they are strong enough to create deep, long-lasting, and noticeable marks in trees. Therefore their writing system is vertical, going from bottom to top so they could start at eye-level and write upwards along the tree trunk. This also helped because as the tree grew, new information could be added. This writing system started out largely symbolic/logographic (using symbols to represent the coven who was marking the territory, with a few other symbols to mark other things like the date or the identity of the writer), but it evolved to represent sounds as opposed to meaning. This happened because while different covens used basically the same language, they used different symbols. Sometimes a coven would change their symbol, and there was no way to communicate this. It was hard communicate how something sounded, so writing people's names was pretty hard. Do you make the symbol unique to them? Does it represent their name and thus could be used for other people who have the same name? That's tough, especially when there is no standard. So to avoid problems like this, this writing system became an alphabet. I think it could resemble Ogham, which was an alphabet used to write Archaic Irish and then later Old Irish. Since Vampiric is a tonal language, they would have a system for indicating tone, but idk what it would be. Probably some diacritic system, but I haven't really decided that yet. And then paper comes along! Vampires go from operating as individual covens to forming a national government. They still have covens, but now they also have a larger, species-wide governmental body. Kinda like the states and the federal government in the US. Vampires decide that they would like to write stuff down. At this point, their writing system is still mostly about writing on trees. This leads to an issue: the Capital is in a cave system in a mountain. There are no trees down there. So they could start writing on the walls, but then they would have a bunch of issues. Like, what if you made a typo? What if you wrote something down and wanted to change it? If your writing material is stone, you can't exactly erase stuff. You would have to start over entirely and destroy some of the stone. This would be a bit of a pain in the short term, but imagine this happening over thousands of year. You would run out of stone pretty fast. So vampires turned to paper. You can write something down. The writing itself was done with brushes and ink, so it was permanent, but the material itself (paper) could be disposed. Great! So now vampires are writing on paper. They stop writing on trees and move to paper. However, some trees still survive to the present day (15,000 AC, right?) with writing from the olden, pre-paper days. But! But. Vampires love to sit around and write a bunch of stuff and make it really hard for anyone to understand what the hell they were writing. They also adore tradition. Remember the early, logographic writing system? Well, someone decided that they wanted to bring it back. But there is a new problem. Back in the tree-writing-logograph days, vampires only really needed to write down names and the like. There was no need to express complex thoughts that, you know, needed grammar. Now vampires want to write long, complex sentences and proclamations and the like. They need their writing to represent grammar too. The old logograph system doesn't work because vampires' language is agglutinative. You can represent the core word just fine, but how do you represent grammatical inflections? Well, you could use logograms and your alphabet! Genius. But it looks clunky. So instead you come up with a freak ton of little add-on symbols that are based on your alphabet. Brilliant! So now you have a ton of symbols all with specific meanings. There's a symbol for each case, each formality marker and honorific, each conjugation (and there's a lot of them for that), all this stuff. Of course, that's a lot of symbols, but vampires have already developed a strong education system because... they are a bookish species. At any rate, this new writing system includes the old logographs while also obeying the language's agglutinative grammar system. Except now we have the old problem of not having any pronunciation indicators. That kinda sucks. Well, we can add in a slot for basic pronunciation indicators (tone markers, the type of vowel, etc.). That does not let you know how the entire word is pronounced, but it gives you a hint. Fantastic! Here's a quick diagram I drew up of this new writing system: So now these two writing systems exist. The alphabet is easier to learn and write, but the newer system is much more traditional and unique to vampires. The new, logographish system becomes a symbol of Vampiric and vampire culture and history. It becomes the writing system of prestige and is used for government documents (the highest, most important use for writing). However, the alphabet is still in use. It is used for day-to-day tasks. So if you go to a store, handwritten price tags will probably use the alphabet. If you are writing shorthand, you would use the alphabet. But if you are writing a novel or a government document, you use the logographish system. The sign above a courthouse would be in the logographish system, but your local convenience store would probably use the alphabet. You can think of the logographish system as the High Vampiric writing system and the alphabet as the Vulgar Vampiric writing system. Of course, there is a bit more overlap (High Vampiric is exclusively for government affairs whereas the logographish system has a broader application). Regardless, these two systems coexist throughout the vampire homeland.
Your interactive fiction point is so true. Obviously we are following something of an outlined plot, but there is so much freedom in what we write. Yet it's always exciting to see a new post. I just always look forward to reading your guys's writing, really <3
also, completely unrelated, I just realized that I always say "your guys's" for the second person plural possessive and that's weirdly interesting... language is weird
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Post by mossecho on Dec 31, 2020 23:01:22 GMT -5
oof that took so long to write. i got really into that writing systems tangent, didn't i? xD
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Rainbow
#CDC0DD
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Starchaser
barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 1, 2021 0:27:25 GMT -5
mossecho No worries
I just don't want to be overbearing. I really enjoy hearing other people's ideas and bouncing them around, like you said, the worldbuilding and collaboration is one of the best parts about this RP. It's really nice to be around other people that also like to go off on tangents about random aspects of our world that will probably never be part of the RP. Oh well.
There are humans, but they are very rare and only found outside the Kingdom of Veuxdelys. All the species started as humans, but as they gained control over magic, they eventually became different species based on what magic they used, creating the five Families. The specific properties of a magic type that they lean into changes the qualities of each species somewhat. Infernals have so many species because their magic is sort of based on randomness and chaos (odd, considering vampire culture, but). Prophecy crew is slated to encounter a civilization of a humans late in the RP (it's where the "gate" they need to return the stones to is), which will be the most horror-esque part of our story : ) Basically, the humans used to also be various species from the Families, but after the Cataclysm they swore all magic off after seeing the destruction it caused. After years and generations have gone by, they lose their magic and become humans again. They also hate magical species, so it will be very fun when prophecy crew has to deal with them.
Anyways, I thought that was interesting also. I describe most of the Families as "stronger than average," but that technically makes them average in this world. I mainly use it in terms for our comparison though. I think I see physical strength as going something like this: Vampires > Shifters > Heavenlys > Elementals > Mages. All other Infernals are at various levels in comparison to the other Families. Lifespan I see as relatively similar: Vampires > Heavenlys > Shifters > Elementals > Mages. Other Infernals are once again found across the board, but maybe fae are the longest-lived aside from vampires, and most Infernals live so long because they subsist on the life-force of other living beings. In the past when the Families (and sometimes different species) were all fighting, Belua and Lux users were the most frequent targets because their magic was the best for that. Anyways, the average lifespan in the Kingdom of Veuxdelys might be a few hundred years. Shifters would live longer than the average human, but their lifestyle means early death is more likely. Mages are both the shortest-lived and most prone to stupid decisions, so ya know. I honestly think Mages being on the lower end of all the main powers most species have explains a lot about them, so I'll probably make that canon, so to speak.
I feel that. Magic is nice to hand-wave things with. That said, trying to figure out how to make things plausible is fun too. Ever since Alex mentioned he could only visit the capital when he turned 25, that's the age my brain selected for when vampire aging really slows down to a very noticeable degree. This would make sense realistically as well, and I say that because humans tend to "peak" physically between 20-30 for a lot of things. Muscle and bone mass, metabolism, heart rate (not that that would affect vampires but anyways), memory (of at least certain things, but vampires would have to have pretty great memories in general for their lifespans), "brain power" or whatever overall. I've also read that cells would begin dying off at a faster rate than they're replaced at that age, but I'm not sure how accurate that is. I think most people said they felt they were most attractive around those ages too so. There are other things that peak later in life, but I think that has more to do with life experience and such.
I figure that anything biology or their own magic doesn't handle for them, vampires live by feeding off the life-force (Belua, normally) of other creatures. With how big of a deal that scent is for them, that could be the main reason they breathe (aside from it just making more sense they wouldn't adapt to not have it, as you said). Magic probably does everything for them physiologically. Tbh, I imagined magic replacing most of what exists in our world. Like how Heavenlys use Lux instead of electricity. Mages probably do the same with Anima and so on. One idea I had which I wasn't ever sure where to propose was that vampires don't die or really age past a certain point, it's just that the prolonged use of Stygian will eventually kill them. It sort of pairs with the corruption aspect of it, but a vampire's power would grow as they age (unlike most species, hence why age is such a big deal to vampires and why they respect their elders), but that also means their concentration of Stygian magic would keep increasing. They'd become better at adapting to it over time, but eventually it would reach a point where Stygian levels rise faster than they can be depleted, which basically means the user just sort of... fades. They gradually become less corporeal (and more like sentient energy? this is such a terrible explanation i'm so sorry) and eventually just... idk, vanish completely. It's similar to corruption, but more of a chronic type, I suppose, and without the going mad aspect. Mages also have a similar phenomenon with Anima, but it happens spontaneously. It's kind of depressing, but it's also just a different type of life cycle, I suppose. I just thought it's an idea if you don't want them to reach the point where they would physically waste away since that sounds not fun at all. I guess there's still a "wasting away" aspect of it, but it's not that their physical bodies are deteriorating, they're just literally changing... states of matter? They're becoming energy instead of a different type of physical matter.
Explosive anger seems more common in more emotional people, at least to me. But the more "hot" and explosive type anger doesn't necessarily mean anything physical. It doesn't even always entail yelling, just... idk, more expression? If that makes sense. I don't see Lilah as a particularly icy type anger, but probably not the explosive type either. Maybe she'd be more passive-aggressive, idk. She doesn't like confrontation.
I think Alex is a good contender for strongest, I could only see Clarisse being stronger (at least in lycan form), cause Belua magic impacts physical attributes them most. I think werewolves probably have among the best senses, though theirs would probably more evenly balanced, while vampires have the best scent. Werewolves and vampires are probably very close in ability, maybe with it varying on an individual basis for who would win out ultimately. Ugh, can't talk right. The rest of shapeshifters tend to have abilities close to their animal forms, so there would be a lot of variation.
That's all really cool, but my brain is pretty much always fried now, so I don't have much comment other than: that's awesome! I am going to drop a Mage language and writing system dump soon though, so I'll probably address it more then.
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Post by mossecho on Jan 1, 2021 23:37:18 GMT -5
Starchaser: hey, sorry it took me so long to reply doctor who new year's special got me
Ok, good to know that there really are humans. I just keep forget what we had in the original RP vs what we kept vs what new things we have vs what we thought to add or take away but didn't. Thanks for the clarification! (: Also, we're still doing the fight in the middle of the city, right? With the humans and whoever their accomplices are?
As for Shifters, I think their life spans might vary according to what they shift into. So a werewolf might live just a bit longer than humans, but a Shifter who would become a turtle would live much, much longer. As for mayfly shifters, they'd die sooner than an average human. Also, I like the idea that Mage society was shaped by their relative... humanness compared to the other Families. It makes sense why they would turn to diplomacy and the like. It also supports why they would be one of the most curious species.
Dear goodness, if this is the age at which I am supposed to be in peak physical condition, that does not bode well for my future xD at any rate, glad to know that age range works. and that we're all agreed to hand-wave stuff
I like the idea that vampires fade away and become, as you put it, "sentient energy." It makes sense for how vampires deal with the dead. If I remember whatever I made up, they burn their dead and then release their ashes into their air. The only people present for the ceremony are close family members. If vampires' deaths are about the body's end and not entirely the consciousness's end, this ceremony would make a bit more sense. It could be like, I don't know, letting the deceased's consciousness go, no longer bound to the body. I don't know what level of awareness their "sentient energy" would have. Probably not a lot, but at least letting go of the dead would bring their consciousness peace (if that makes any sense). But I don't really know. This is more of a ramble than any actual, coherent thought.
True, true. I was mostly just thinking about the extremes of anger. At any rate, I suppose we'll just discover how our characters act when angry as, well, they become angry. (Wow, such a revelation, true genius there xD)
I agree that werewolves would have senses that were as good as vampires' on average. Like... if you were to assign numbers to it, vampires' scent and sight could be at 20 and 10, whereas werewolves' would be at 15 and 15. So they both average at 15, but the werewolves' senses are much more balanced. If that makes any sense at all, of course.
I had so much fun writing out the writing systems xD I have no idea how well it would actually work (the logographish system, that is). It fits Vampiric's grammar well, but it would take forever to actually write a lot of those words. Well, vampires probably wouldn't care all that much. They love the aesthetics and tradition too much. Admittedly I have no idea what the logographish system would actually look like. Probably a lot of swirls and curved lines and tiny little markings that look insignificant but really are very important and if you forget them then you mess up the entire word.
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barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 2, 2021 0:36:28 GMT -5
mossecho No need to apologize, I don't expect people to spend all their free time on here like me who has no life I hope you enjoyed it! I'm really behind on Doctor Who, but I am looking for shows to watch now, so maybe I'll finally go about getting caught up.
I think when we first started planning the RP we never mentioned them, but it was one of our worldbuilding expansions later on. The main difference from our og RP is that the Families and humans exist in the same world and are related to each other. Families are descended from the original humans, the post-Cataclysm humans are descended from the Families. We're still having the Sanctum fight, but I think we decided it would be the cult attacking this time. We talked a little about humans being involved with the cult and hoping to destroy all magical species, but I think it was decided that might be a bit convoluted, so they're sort of two different plot points. The cult is lead by a vampire who is the only survivor of the most recent prophecy crew before ours (who were chosen a thousand years ago), since vampires are immortal. They came close to defeating the curse, but once they learned the truth, they all agreed not to go through with their intended role. Instead, they founded the cult, essentially created to ensure the total destruction of the world. Most of its members probably don't know the true purpose though, but the eldritch abomination who brought about the curse (along with the prophecy founders) makes them more powerful so they are bound to it and protect it. The leader vampire is able to tap into all forms of magic, and probably has some unheard of abilities too, and has deluded his followers into thinking they're going to bring about some grand new world from the ashes of the old one. Specifically, one of their primary goals is to tear apart the Kingdom and make the Families turn on each other in order to seize control. They also want to stop prophecy crew, although this is specifically the cult leader's desire, since they're the biggest threat to his plans, and only he really knows what they're meant to do.
This all starts with the Sanctum attack, in which a leader from each Family is assassinated, or potentially leaders from all the different species since some have separate governments who would be at the Summit too. This gets people scared and suspicious, and nobody knows who's responsible, so accusations start flying inevitably. In all this new upheaval, Sanctum (where a large majority of the Kingdom is because of said Summit) is assailed by terrible, super dangerous magic abomination things who suddenly got in from a seemingly out-of-nowhere breach in the barrier. Your average member of the different species is pretty powerful, but they still don't stand much of a chance against eldritch horrors, so there's lots of carnage and destruction to all the Families, and the Kingdom itself. The cult members also play a bit of a role directly in the attack, but mostly just with prophecy crew since their plans are still clandestine for the time being. However, most of the Families have some involvement with the cult (the cult is partially responsible for pushing the border packs to finally stand up to First Pack, if you know anything about that side plot with Zane; they're probably similarly involved in other troubles brewing around the Kingdom, such as the breach that destroys Cloudhelm).
The humans mostly aren't relevant until later, although we could change that if we like. The plot is still pretty malleable at this point. As of right now, the Kingdom of Veuxdelys and human civilization don't know each other exists. I imagine there are a few separate groups from after the Cataclysm who all believe they're the sole survivors. My plan was for prophecy crew to discover the human's society once they leave the Kingdom and visit the continent that's next door. The human city or whatever will have been built around the "gate" where the eldritch abomination was first able to break into Naessia's world. Whether they know about it or now is still up in the air. Anyways though, prophecy crew needs to return their stones to seal away the ancient evil, but that's a little difficult when magic-hating townspeople are trying to hunt them down and kill them.
Welp, that explanation got long-winded. Moving on.
That could be interesting and I can see the logic behind it. The main reason I said Shifters overall would live longer is because Belua magic is so closely tied to biology and physiological processes. The users would probably all have a tight control over anything to do with their bodies, including the aging process. Since they can heal/regenerate quickly and suffer from injury/illness far less, I could see aging being similarly affected. They'd probably be far less impacted by the detriments of aging and be able to keep themselves going for longer. I'm not a scientist or anything though. Anyways, that was my line of thinking too. I always figured Mages were the most human, but it works well for worldbuilding as well as practical purposes with their magic. I was thinking about how you said they seemed the most politically powerful, and how that was actually probably accurate, once I started thinking about how that would have come to pass. If you can't tell, I'm stupidly fond of this RP and coming up with more content for it.
I feel ya, Moss. The one thing I think I have going for me is that I apparently look young. If that keeps up for me, perhaps I will look good for my age in the future. For right now it is a bit of a grievance, but I digress.
Yeah, I think Alex talked about going to the highest point in vampire territory (Cuspide), and releasing the ashes of the deceased's remains. Maybe that process could fully release the consciousness too, as you put it? That's the final step to their "death," or whatever. I doubt the "sentient energy" would have much awareness either, I sort of figured that would gradually decrease too, not having a body to sustain it or whatever. Clearly I know so much about what I'm talking about xD I almost imagined it could be a reincarnation type belief? The magic that made the vampire up would be freed and back out into the world to become something else. Since magic cannot be created or destroyed, then no vampire would be truly gone. The magic wouldn't be them exactly, but it was once part of them, so it carries their history in a way. Then that magic might someday become part of a newly born vampire and the cycle continues or something. Idk.
Watching how character's react to different emotions is my jam. I'm sure we will force our characters to experience both the highest and lowest points possible for various emotions, and I for one, am very excited about it.
I get what you're saying with that. Shapeshifters would probably have a lot more variation to their senses, based on what they primarily transform into, but our main focus is werewolves and vampires in this discussion.
Coming up with writing systems and languages is good fun. Considering that vampires can move very quickly, maybe it wouldn't really matter to them that the words took a long time to write. Aesthetics is primarily how I designed my writing system so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by mossecho on Jan 2, 2021 1:53:17 GMT -5
Starchaser : I don't know where you last left off, but I hope you enjoy the next few episodes/seasons! I'm going back through Classic Who right now (Fourth Doctor). Didn't realize how nostalgic I could feel for stories that I never even saw as a kid xD
Ok, I remember pretty much all of that. Forgot the bit about the cult leader, but I remembered the cult itself. Thanks for the quick summary! I really appreciate it. Weirdly enough, I'm really looking forward to exploring the human society. I assume they are as technologically advanced as we are, if not more so (just since the Mages are as technologically advanced as us, right? and I imagine technology advances more slowly if you have magic just since you don't need to invent more as urgently, hence the human civilization perhaps being a bit more advanced, although it does not necessarily have to be). And it means we have room for another conlang! Perhaps what they speak would be very closely related to Veuxdelian. Eh, we can explore that later.
Oof, I really should rename that mountain. Cuspide is a decent name, but it does not seem important enough. Eh, maybe Cuspide is just a shortening of its actual name. Perhaps vampires just have different names for different locations depending on the context. At any rate, getting back on subject, I like the reincarnation idea. I don't know how well literal reincarnation would work in the vampires' belief system, but some form of it could fit really well. Permanence is very important to them, so I don't know how making vampire life cyclical would go. In other words, I don't think they would believe in dead vampires being reborn. That said, it makes sense that they would believe that the deceased's spirit/soul (idk which word is more appropriate) reenters this world. I imagined vampires would probably practice a form of ancestor worship. If they pray to their ancestors and ask them for guidance, it makes sense that they would believe that their ancestors had some presence in the living realm.
Our poor characters are just going to get put through a blender, aren't they? Experiencing all the highs and all the lows... especially the lows, mwahaha. I still need to figure out how to get Alex drunk. Me thinks he becomes a very affectionate, pro-hugs person when he starts drinking. Hell, he'll probably start calling everyone nicknames and using diminutives and affectionate Vampiric terms.
I really need to focus on the language's phonology before I start working on the writing system... but writing is just so tempting. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
also, sorry about how much shorter my discussion posts (like this one) are getting!
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 2, 2021 2:35:34 GMT -5
mossecho It's been years since I watched (I just kinda didn't pick it up again after the last season that was out ended). I think it was... the 9th season? Maybe? Definitely still Capaldi's era, whatever season Bill Potts is the new companion. I don't really know anything beyond that. I've never watched Classic Who (mostly because only new who is on prime), but I'd like to.
I'm not sure if I ever mentioned that about the cult leader, but it was my predetermined backstory for him. I am very excited for him to interact with Alex, since he's gotta be his something-great relative. Hmm, I hadn't thought that much on it, I'm thinking they'd be close to modern era (in our world) technologically, but maybe a little less. The only reason I think it might have been hard for them to advance as quickly as the kingdom is because they're living in a very dangerous post-apocalyptic world, but your points make sense (I just hadn't thought of it before). All of the Cataclysm survivors are, but the Kingdom of Veuxdelys has the added benefit of a magical shield. The outside world is very unpredictable and scarce in resources, so I'm not sure how easy it would be for them to develop their tech and such, and I figured the Cataclysm caused something close to a "reset" in terms of advancement. I assume they'd probably be close to the Kingdom, I don't exactly what level I'd assign to them. Mages I always pictured as a little futuristic, mainly because of their propensity towards creation and inventing, but their magic is the most versatile, so perhaps they wouldn't have as much need for it. At the very least, their tech would probably work quite differently from ours. Also, I was just thinking about how they'd have a different language too and how that would hinder communication, and make it that much harder for prophecy crew. Which is great, of course.
Naming things can be a challenge. I go back and alter components of worldbuilding a lot too, so it's not really that big of a deal. I think with vampires it would be less of a literal reincarnation, and more of just... ehm, recycling? Vampire death rites are about laying a vampire's soul (and thus their consciousness) to rest, and since they toss the ashes in the air, it could be about allowing them to leave the physical world and make it to the vampire afterlife (though they still maintain a presence in the living world too). So it would only be their magic becoming part of another vampire. Maybe they would see it as their tie vampires who have finally passed on? The magic still being in the living realm is what connects a vampire's spirit to their living relatives/friends/coven/etc.
My characters, especially Lilah, should be very afraid. Honestly, if I had to go on a crazy, probably death-bringing quest with a bunch of strangers and I found out the one person I felt like I could trust was keeping some dark secret (well, as you mentioned, it's more of the hierarchy thing, but that's still a big deal to vampires), I'd probably start drinking if the opportunity presented itself. Maybe Alex decides to start drinking a little because he thinks it will help with his nervousness and then goes way overboard by accident. It wouldn't be hard for him, considering he'd have no idea what his limits are and have no tolerance for alcohol. I would love to see affectionate Alex though, and Lilah loves nicknames, so she would take advantage of that to give him one that he would pretend to hate when he was sober.
Mage language is difficult for me to work with, since I'm making it super complex, but I will do it. Eventually.
Also, no worries! I write a lot because I overexplain things, not because I think people are stupid, but because I can't get my points across neatly.
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Post by mossecho on Jan 2, 2021 3:36:34 GMT -5
Starchaser : Ah right, I remember you specifying that now. Well, whenever you get back to watching it, I hope you enjoy the 13th Doctor. She's really great, and the companions are amazing as well. As for Classic Who, I honestly don't know it well enough to give any strong recommendations, but the Fourth Doctor is always a good start.
Oh goodness right, he'd be Alex's ancestor. I'm not sure how many generations back he would be, just since vampires rarely have children, but at least a great-great-grandfather. Oh goodness this will be interesting. I just imagine Alex having such a values crisis. Vampires are so reverent and respectful towards their ancestors, almost idolizing them. I don't doubt that Alex would feel much towards his ancestor in terms of sympathy or anything (since at that point they would probably be well aware about how awful he was), but poor kiddo would have a tough time coming to terms with it. Well, at any rate, we'll see what happens whenever we eventually get to that point.
As for the humans, I think it could be more useful if they were around today's level of technology. That way we don't need to make up much about technological innovation. They might be more advanced in some ways (namely defense-related devices and maybe environmental ones too, just so they could farm more easily and the like), but generally I am happy if they are around our level of technology. I don't want to predict what Apple will have in store for us in ten years (aside from larger iPhones with even more cameras, dear goodness). In terms of their language, it would be very, very different. Probably as different as the Mage's language would be from everyone else's. Language evolves through separation and acquiring new speakers (and other stuff, nothing is ever that simple). So if one group splits into two, say magic users and non-magic users, their common language will evolve separately and eventually split into two languages. As for new speakers, that could mean nonnative speakers (like when the Vikings invaded the British isles and integrated into those cultures, thus learning Anglo-Saxon (or whatever that period's language was called, maybe it was Old English at that point, idk)) learning the language or younger speakers (like Generation Z or whatever the name is now) growing up with the language and contributing new words and the like. Since humans separated from the Families a long time ago, their language has had a ton of time to evolve. I mean, think of how different English and Russian are. Their common ancestor, Proto-Indo-European, was spoken anywhere from 4,500 BCE to 2,500 BCE. If the humans did not stay as one group, they've had plenty of time by now to completely split their original, common language into a bunch of seemingly separate language. Oooooh this could be fun *evil villain cackle*
Yeah, exactly! That sounds fantastic and just... perfect. From what little I have thought of for their religious or spiritual beliefs, they believe in both their ancestor's effect on the real world and that living individuals carry their ancestor's legacy. That way, the whole thing in the prophecy with each individual representing a distant ancestor completely tracks with vampires' spirituality or religion. (I haven't decided if these are more religious or spiritual beliefs yet.) (Although I haven't thought much about it at all, as previously mentioned).
Drunk Alex has to happen eventually. I don't think it would work very soon, just since he's too on-edge to feel safe enough to start drinking. But eventually, eventually it will happen. *another evil villain cackle* But yeah, Alex is totally going to underestimate himself. He's just going to see how much other people can drink without getting super drunk and assume that it will be the same for him. And then bam! Drunk, carefree Alex is going to be calling everyone by their first names with diminutives. Like with the "-ito" suffix in Spanish (like José → Joselito or perro → perrito), just... more so. He'll probably end up blubbering random somethings in Vulgar Vampiric and breaking into fits of giggles and hiccups. And lots of hugs, all the hugs. Drunk Alex is going to get along with Avani very well.
I look forward to seeing how complex the Mage language gets! *third evil villain cackle because why not*
Ok, cool cool cool. (heh, Jake Peralta) Just so you know, I really don't mind your long responses. That just means there's more for me to read and enjoy!
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 3, 2021 1:02:42 GMT -5
mossecho Thanks! I've heard good things about the Fourth Doctor, so that probably will be where I start when I get around to Classic Who.
That's what makes it fun (: Characters having to confront their weaknesses and deal with conflicting ideologies... it's just very good. Something like that could come into play when Alex has his stone activation trial. Amber mentioned Avani having to realize not everyone can change/is good deep down and that sometimes she'd have to hurt others in order to save those she cares about. Since vampires have a sort of hero worship with their elders, I imagine especially one's they're related to, having to be pitted against the cult leader would be tough for Alex. To make sure it's extra angsty, I'll make sure he does very terrible things.
Oh, that reminds me, when do vampires normally have kids? I was trying to work out my vampire character's backstory and when I was making their parents, it got me thinking about that question. Since they don't have the same time constraints as some species, I figured they'd probably have them later than most since their life cycle is different. I figure vampires are considered adults the same age as other species, but for them that doesn't really mean as much since they'll still be barely starting their life. Of course, it would probably vary between individuals when they decide to, but I was just curious if there was a typical age or whatever. Sorry to bombard you with vampire society questions, btw.
I definitely don't think they would be more modern than our world technologically. Sometimes I forget just how advanced we are in certain areas, when I remember a certain tech we have and do a double take. Defense mechanisms and environmental technology are interesting to think about though. Especially now that I'm imagining traps set up around their town or whatever it is for our characters to haplessly wander into. Yeah, the language would definitely be very different. It's been about 15,000 years since the Cataclysm, so they'd definitely have had plenty of time to develop. That said, language already might have changed quite a bit in the years afterwards. A lot of the population died as a direct result of the Cataclysm, but many more still died after just from longtime exposure to corrupted magic, as well as all the other things that apocalypses can cause. Everything was in turmoil for quite a while, so people died very quickly. There weren't any really large, stable civilizations for about 5000 years afterwards, meaning all these little groups probably had their own language intricacies, which eventually became entirely separate ones. I'm also guessing the Families wouldn't take as much issue mingling around each other, just since survival was already so difficult. They wouldn't have been able to communicate very well at first, so language would probably change more rapidly among various groups of survivors than normal. Veuxdelys has only been around for about 3000 years, which isn't long considering all the world's history, but was plenty of time for the different species to reestablish their own languages once they became their own nations. I don't know much about how language develops though, but I'm guessing there would be a lot of variation between all the groups.
That still sounds interesting, and I'm glad the idea of the prophecy can work well with vampire religion/spirituality. I'm excited to hear more as you come up with it (:
I was mostly just trying to think of a way it could theoretically happen if you still wanted it to at the part, but that does make sense. There's still plenty of time for us to find a place to fit it in. Drunk Alex is going to be fun, I can already tell. You know, I did really want a masquerade ball scene, even though we're kind of already doing a fancy party thing. I'd love a murder mystery masquerade ball... which is somewhat of a repeat of this plot but the masquerade aspect makes it so much better for me. Also, in Mage language, Lilah's name is already a diminutive, so that's going to be double diminutive, although it's not the same language. I kind of forgot all the Families have different languages for a hot second, but I'm wondering if Lilah might have reverted back to her native language at times. One thing I did think of though, spells would sound weird to the other species because the language used to control magic is already separate from Mage language, so it probably has virtually no translations into the other languages. This is something I will need to take advantage of.
Well, I still feel a bit bad whenever I get too deep in my rambles, but it's nice to know people aren't bothered by it.
@shootforthestars Promise I have not forgotten about mage gang response, I'm just kind of hitting a creative block. Sorry for the wait!
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Post by mossecho on Jan 3, 2021 4:52:12 GMT -5
... oh hell
well i just wrote a long post and then deleted it like a genius. i can rewrite it all if you'd like, but i just rewrote it all in bullet point form because i was typing it for, like, an hour (it would take less time to retype because i wouldn't be thinking as i go but still, lots of work). so... here you go. hope you can parse it! sorry about this format, it's just a one-time thing, really hope you don't mind <3
Starchaser: - Fourth Doctor is awesome - mwahaha character torture - feel soooo sorry for Avani (just... not believing in people is sad, but having faith in the goodness of humanity only to lose it is so much worse, the poor thing, I will cry (but also cackle because mwahaha character torture) (Amber, you are vicious and I love it!) - moral conflict during first battle (Alex killing someone, vampires consider life to be sacred (well, less so with non-vampires, but still) (they consider vampire life to be sacred, animal and plant life important to maintain on a population-wide scale but not so much on an individual level, and other species lives to be important generally but they’ll die really soon anyways but one should die naturally, not by being killed, that’s bad, but way less tragic than if it was a vampire) moral dilemma) - idk what my plan is - well it's complicated - population control (too many vampires → prey population goes down → need to expand coven's border → border disputes → chaos → led to really bad stuff in the past so we're not doing that again), problem since vampires pretty only ever die when killed - no legal rules or restrictions or anything, just a cultural expectation - lots of consideration goes into having a child (can take decades, is not a "think about it for a year" sort of thing) - traditional family expectation (stigma against single parents, accidental pregnancies are really not ever a thing because the stigma against the (ehm, idk if we can say the word for the activity that leads to pregnancy on the forums, but that thing)) - basically there is no set age range, but the vampires are well into their marriage when they have a child, typically very old (well, vampires would say "mature," they are not old by vampire standards) - also, alex's family waited a lot longer (they are middle-upper class within the antier coven, so for them they had to be very careful about it) (also they already had a kid, Alex's older brother, and it's rare for anyone to have more than one kid) - alex's older brother is, like, 100 years older than alex (not relevant but whatever) - vampires wait a long time to get married (it's often a politically-motivated union, so the two individuals need to have a clear political standing beforehand) (also divorces are also hugely stigmatized (again, traditional family expectation), so they need to make sure they can work together) - no set age range for marriages either, but they are always at least a century old (and even then that's pretty young to get married) - marriage only really occurs between vampires of similar social standing (not a rule per se, but an expectation, and you know vampires and their expectation) - also, i'm keeping the general dictatorship idea, but changing it because the original sucked - also also, there's a max. age for the oldest vampires still alive because of said dictatorship and its systematic murder of vampires above a certain age (hence why no one has lived long enough to see any vampire become old) - keep the vamp. society questions coming! they help me expand the world more and think of more stuff for alex's backstory - i still don't know what his home life was like, really. well, kinda. not really. help. - definitely, definitely! i can't think of futuristic tech xD - me thinks the humans are great at stem, particularly ecology and the like, so they can survive in the tough terrain (so they got really good at air and water purification, efficient farming, etc.) - oooh they are such academics! well, some of them. like a half-academic, half-military society. maybe not exactly like that, since they have probably managed to stabilize society enough to not have to stress military operations that that much, but they still care about it a lot. idk, we can change that though, just throwing ideas around - humans having analytic languages! (those are languages that rely a lot on "helper words" like prepositions and particles. english is an analytic language, for example, unlike Old English and many other indo-european languages) - now, not every human language would be analytic, of course, i'm just imagining that their grammars would be hella different from the Families' languages so the prophecy group would be like "what the hell" when coming across human language. - until lilah cast a translation spell and solved everything Star, do translation spells exist? does lilah know them? idk- admittedly don't know much about what to do with vampire religion/spirituality yet - lots of ancestor worship, yes - religion largely based on Catholicism, particularly how it is practiced in Mexico (since I'm basing Alex's culture off of Mexican culture) (kinda, I scrapped & changed & added ) (but I still want to incorporate different stuff from it) - vampires celebrate something akin to the Day of the Dead, have beautiful cathedral-like structures, integrate religion into common sayings (like saying "thank God"), patron "saints" (they're not quite saints, more like ancestral spirits), belief in certain supernatural elements (like the evil eye), etc. (just listing ideas, idk which to keep) (but I am definitely keeping the Day of the Dead) - I don't see Alex getting drunk around anyone outside the prophecy group, but he will get drunk *evil villain smirk* - love the masquerade murder idea!! - Alex will just be rambling in Vampiric the entire time so he'll use Vampiric diminutives... idk how those will work yet but I have ideas: - 1. Vampiric has a ton of diminutives, all representing varying levels of affection, because vampires are like that and have a million ways to refer to someone - 2. Vampiric diminutives can be repeated for emphasis - 3. they're one-syllable suffixes - so when Alex goes rambling, he'll just keep repeating the same syllable over and over again. so if the diminutive was "-[vowel]r[vowel]" (just for the sake of example, idk if that will be it), Alex would call Lilah "Liluhiririririririri..." and Avani "Avanararararara..." and then just trail off as he just kept repeating the suffix more and more softly (:
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 3, 2021 6:04:39 GMT -5
mossecho Aw, I hate it when that happens. No worries though, you definitely don't need to retype all of it, I would not wish that on anyone. Having accidentally lost RP posts in the past and trying to reassemble them... just yikes. This probably wont be very long either.
Character torture = good. Avani definitely has one of the saddest "trials" or what have you, I think. However, there's plenty of time for us to think about how to make our characters go through even worse (: Lilah's reunion with her mom is my favorite upcoming angst opportunity. I'm so excited for Cloudhelm to fall anyways. Even more so than with the Sanctum battle, I feel like this will be the time when prophecy crew realizes they can't save everyone. I also was hoping they'd have a chance to get Foreshadowing from an Oracle while they visit. All around, just a lot of angst.
Vampires consider life sacred, huh? Cult leader is very murdery, how nice. Lilah's near-death experience (which is an integral part of all my character's arcs, no exceptions you know i had to do it to em jk jk) was definitely going to be caused by the cult. I'll make sure it's the cult leader who is directly responsible for it. Lilah probably wont be lucky enough to almost die only once (heck, I guess I already did try to kill her in like the second post she was in, but obviously that wasn't going to have lasting consequence), but the one towards the end will absolutely be her closest brush with death. In my opinion, everyone needs to almost die on separate occasions so we can really make sure these guys are afraid losing each other (tbh i like writing brushes with death, but i'm not gonna tell anyone else they should, i just personally find it fun)
That all makes sense, I get how it would be complicated with the whole immortality thing. The idea of having a sibling that's a hundred years older is so funny to me, like most things late at night, even if it's not that much for vamps. I appreciate the Alex family-building though. Also, I had kinda forgotten that was what vampire government was like. Absolutely love corruption though, keep it coming.
Human society worldbuilding is very fun too. I honestly didn't have a whole lot of ideas for them yet, beyond prophecy crew finding their home and thinking it was abandoned at first (maybe they primarily live underground? which might make sense given the corrupted magic running around, it would probably be easier to stay protected from the elements and enemies underground, but what do i know? they're probably big on security though, so they had some way of detecting when someone entered the above-ground part of their city thing). Mostly just to amp up the creepiness factor, I kinda imagined prophecy crew slowly getting separated and disappearing ahaha. Then the humans try to murder them, probably with their species' weaknesses. Again, angst and danger.
Also, thank you for making me think about how certain spells work. Okay, so, I'm going to say that translation spells do exist, but they're not just the magic version of google translate. It would probably be some type of divination-invocation-transmutation combo spell, definitely something only more powerful mages could perform. The more complex a spell, and the more aspects of anima it involves, the harder it is to pull off (and the more magic it takes). Lilah would probably know them. She already interacts with the other Families a lot, so she would probably be interested in a spell like that. Then, if she happens to meet someone who can't speak Veuxdelian, it wouldn't be a big deal to her. Like most of prophecy crew, Lilah is probably among the most powerful member of her species. I can only talk about my characters in this regard, but I assumed most of the chosen ones were the most powerful in their generation. In terms of raw ability and magical potency, Lilah easily surpasses the majority of mages, and she excels in all 12 aspects of anima. She is a very rare case though, most mages are only exceptional in around 2-4 aspects, while decent at about 5-6, and do poorly in everything else. When it comes to more powerful individuals (like people in her own family and the other Great Houses), Lilah is still marginally stronger, but she probably doesn't have all the capabilities they do. This is mostly because she hasn't lived as long, and thus hasn't had as much time to hone her craft, but most mages choose only a few aspects to really pursue and practice. Lilah, having pretty much no limitations in what she could theoretically do, has a more well-rounded approach, but that means she isn't on the level of some who are solely focused on a few aspects. There's also the problem of what using too much magic at once will do to a mage; Lilah burns herself out a lot, so when she does very powerful spells she's out of commission for a few hours. Her magic reserve recharges quickly, but to actually use a bunch of taxing spells within quick succession would result in death pretty quickly (it wasn't just lack of magic after the Rotted that kept her from doing anything very awe-inspiring, the spell she used to kill it wasn't the safest for her either). Anyways, Lilah knows a ridiculous amount of spells, or rather, her wand core does. She's had the same one since she was four, so it has a lot. She's definitely purged the older, less useful ones as she's gotten older though. Lilah also makes a lot of her own spells rather than just relying on pre-established ones, since she's always trying to jam more power into less effort. Work smarter, not harder.
I realize you didn't really ask about that, but yeah, Lilah would know a translation spell. The mechanics of something like that seem a little complicated, but I do have some ideas. Essentially, divination can be used for a lot of things, but it's useful in uncovering information from the environment, objects, or living beings. A translation spell would likely involve using divination on someone to get information on how their language works, which means it would be based around that person's understanding of the language (ergo, a toddler would not make a very good candidate to speak the language well). The invocation aspect would come in to form a sort of "mind link" between the individuals trying to communicate, that way the translation would go both ways (Lilah would speak Veuxdelian, but the human would hear it in their language, and vice versa). Transmutation functions as a way of changing the properties of something, which usually means in the material context, but works on abstract concepts as well. This translation spell is good, because I hadn't thought of an example for that type of transmutation before (though I suppose this doesn't count as entirely abstract, but whatever). Anyways, the transmutation aspect would be the main part. It would take the divined knowledge of the language from one individual, and basically transform whatever the speaker said into the other person's language, or the best version it can come up with. However, since the translation is contingent upon how each user understands and relays their language, it's accuracy can vary. I don't know exactly how to describe this well, but the longer the spell is active, the more accurate it becomes, since it has more language to analyze. There would also be some difficulty translating between multiple individuals. Lilah could definitely pull it off, but keeping up a spell like that for everyone who needed to be involved would get tiring, especially since divination and invocation are somewhat dependent on the intended subject being complacent. Those types of spells can still be performed, but they get harder if there's resistance, which there probably would be from the humans.
Honestly, I don't know much about mage religion yet either. I know they have a religion though, some basic concepts, their creation story, pantheon, values, etc. I don't have many of the specifics worked out like I should though. I didn't really aim to base theirs on anything, though I've taken inspiration from lots of concepts found across real world religions. Vampire religion/spirituality sounds cool though and I'm always happy to hear more worldbuilding as you come up with it (:
Drunk Alex is something I never knew I needed in my life. I also love the idea of Alex just excessively using Vampiric diminutives so much. Lots of different diminutives is good too. There were definitely be some times when prophecy crew is all alone far from the rest of society, so there should be some good opportunities for drunk Alex to rise.
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Post by mossecho on Jan 3, 2021 19:05:01 GMT -5
Starchaser: oof, reconstructing RP posts sounds awful! so sorry you had to do that Star
These poor characters are going to get put through the ringer so often, aren't they? (mwahaha) Honestly I think the main reason that I'm so excited for the Sanctum fight is because it's the first time that we'll get to the meat and potatoes of the plot. I mean, obviously the introduction sequence is important, but that just feels like the inciting incident for why the prophecy group is important and doing what they're doing.
Well... they kinda do? It's complicated. They see vampire life as sacred (or pretty close). That view arose in the aftermath of the more, ehm, tumultuous years of vampire history (basically when there was no stability and lots of death and the like). It's sort of like a survival tactic, if that makes any sense? If you think that Bob's life is sacred, and Bob thinks that about your life, then you're less likely to kill each other. That original survival-based viewpoint on life's importance manifested itself into a more religious, reverential perspective on life as their society stabilized. Now, vampires are less... sympathetic when it comes to non-vampires dying. For other Families and other species, vampires expect to outlive foreigners by a lot. So non-vampire deaths are seen as a "well, that was a bit sad, but it would happen eventually" sort of thing. In other words, vampires feel a bit bad about it (as much as vampires do, so not actually that much), but they also have a "your death is inevitable" mindset. As for animals, vampires really don't care that much. They care about population levels and the species as a whole, but an individual deer is not all that important. Of course, this does vary from vampire to vampire. Some are more sensitive than others. Generally, vampire life is near- or completely sacred, but non-vampire deaths is not too, too big of a deal.
Vampires are all like "our government is made up of the most capable individuals, we are awesome" but also "well yeah they got married to solidify a political alliance but that's just smart political maneuvering so haha, we are still a meritocracy."
Oh I love the underground idea! They could have beautiful underground cities and now all the geology things and oooh, I love it. (You can tell I have no idea what I'm talking about, lol) But still, I really love that idea. It works really well. Maybe they could have rigged up some sort of way to snatch people from the surface and get them underground. So the prophecy group could be walking along and then one of them just... vanishes, eaten by the earth.
Goodness Star, I just loved reading through that. Really looking forward to seeing Lilah's magic in action more. Honestly I just really look forward to seeing all the characters more. Again, I haven't thought much at all about how any other societies work, so it will be really interesting to see Amber and Shoot expand on that. Also really looking forward to finally RPing with Shoot, reading her work is always such a treat. Ok, back on subject, sorry. I don't really have much to say about how Mages' magic works, only that Alex is terrified about the sense-masking thing (the spell Lilah cast in the forest so she'd disappear). Also, I really like how the translation spell works! From my understanding, the spell translates the two languages for the speaker and the listener so both can speak and hear their native language. So if Person A spoke English and Person B spoke Spanish, Person A could speak English and hear English while Person B spoke Spanish and heard Person A's speech as Spanish too, yes? (also i love how the spell gets better as it is used longer and gathers more data, really helps the realism of it all (: ) (honestly though, I just get happy whenever language/linguistics is discussed, that's no secret xD)
Mages seem like they'd believe in multiple gods. Just seeing how they have different types of magic, it makes sense that they would worship multiple deities as well. They don't necessarily have to be gods either though. Well, at any rate, it's your decision. (:
Drunk Alex will rise, mwahaha. He is inevitable
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Starchaser
barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 3, 2021 22:50:18 GMT -5
mossecho The main thing about it that annoys me is that it never turns out as good as the first one, but I guess at least it doesn't take as long since I know what I want to say.
Yes, most definitely. Pretty much everything I have planned for my characters is angst interspersed with quiet bonding opportunities. That's it, that's the plot. Send it, Siri. Anyways, yeah, I completely understand what you mean. The introductions and all have been nice (you know I have strong feelings about the Alex-Lilah friendship), but I'm definitely excited for the plot to finally kick into gear. Aside from the fact that battles are fun, I agree that it will give the group a better sense of purpose. I think it will help them realize exactly what the stakes are and why what they need to do is important. Also, battles always provide a nice opportunity for teamwork, bonding, and skill development. I like to think that their "prophecy bond" or whatever we want to call it will get stronger, and they crew will work better alongside each other because of it. Sort of like when people can anticipate what their fighting partner is going to do next and they can help cover each other. Once the Sanctum battle happens, we'll also be able to keep a lot more action coming, and there's going to be much better direction with the plot (not that we haven't known what we wanted to do, but at least the characters finally will have some semblance of a plan instead of wandering around and hoping to bump into each other).
That's what I figured, well, you basically told me already, so it's not like I actually had to do any figuring but. The concept makes sense to me; it seems like that view of life would be common after living through such a long period of death and destruction, but especially with vampires living for so long. Being immortal would already seem to make death viewed in a much worse light, but there would also be vampires alive who remember what happened and place that much more emphasis on the sacredness of life. They would then pass those tales down and warn other vampires to be more appreciative of life, so of course it would eventually become an ingrained part of the culture. Their approach towards other species dying also makes sense in the context of their own lifespans, but that is harsh and I am digging it. I could see that as having influenced them not thinking much of feeding off the other Families early in their history. It's interesting to think about all of this as I (very slowly) try to work out cult leader's backstory. I'm sure he will have killed plenty of others in his lifetime, including vampires. Uhm, I had an idea I was going to talk about, but my stupid brain forgot, so moving on.
I have always adored the idea of underground cities. My secret affinities for a lot of things are manifesting quite frequently in this RP. It would probably make the most sense for them to have started out living underground too, like bunkers in nuclear fallouts, which the Cataclysm basically was a magic version of. It probably started as a small shelter for a little group that gradually gained more members, so they kept expanding outwards, and deeper underground. Perhaps there was already a cave system too, since that would make it easier on them when starting out. Maybe they established the above-ground portion later, but it's still not really lived on. They probably grow most of their food out there and such. Once more, this isn't really my area of expertise, though I love worldbuilding it's something I have to constantly research because I forget the concepts I spent hours cramming in my head. Okay, Moss, you are brilliant and I love that idea. One of them could investigate this area they are the only one able to get to and... they just don't come back. I'd also like it if there were clearly signs hostility there... Like, idk, the humans have encountered the odd magical species now and again, and so they leave warnings.
I'm glad it wasn't a slog, at least, though I don't feel I explained it very well. I've actually thought a good bit on various Mage things, I just haven't gotten around to writing it all up nice and neat, but I'm hoping to soon. As nice as it is to just handwave stuff with magic, I also really enjoy thinking up ways to explain it "realistically," if that's a term that can even apply. I just want it to be able to be consistent with the worldbuilding. The best way I can describe how I pictured magic, is that if the world is a computer (or hardware), magic is the software, and spells are coding of sorts. So, in a sense, I suppose all anima magic is a form of reality alteration. This is technically true of all the magic types, but they are pre-programmed, so to speak. Also, I am really looking forward to the entire group interacting with each other too. Lilah's probably going to be a little standoffish for a while, but also more... I don't know, clingy isn't the right word, but considering Alex is one of the only people she has any sort of positive connection at the moment, she's going to stick more by him. Lilah tends to be rather protective of anyone she likes. Given the current situation between them, this is going to be interesting to see play out, since they're having essentially the opposite feelings towards each other. Alex distrusts Lilah now, but she sees him as the only one she can trust at the moment. This is going to be a problem. Anyways, I admire everyone else's writing style so much; you all a really distinct voice and it's very enjoyable to read your responses. I feel bad knowing I can't match in quality, especially since I could do better, but I tend to just give up with RP. Perfectionism just takes away some of the fun, so I try not to spend too much time worrying with it.
Back on subject though. Mage magic is pretty scary to most species just because of how versatile and unpredictable it is. Only Mages understand the language of magic, so nobody else ever really knows whatever spell they're casting is going to do. Lilah is actually constantly enchanted in a sort of "masking" type spell. This both tones down the aura of magic she gives off and is what makes her seem sort of unmemorable. It's basically part of her deal cutting ties with the Lancasters so she can't be recognized, since she did spend years living with them and such, though she was still pretty well-hidden, all things considered. It also keeps anyone from realizing she has an enchantment on herself, which is another type of illusion. Thankfully, Lilah is powerful enough that the only ones who would really be able to see through it are her own family. If she ever happened to not recast the enchantment though, there'd be a lot of "hey wait a second." Anyways, there's a somewhat more decent, in-depth explanation in the magic section of the extras, if you ever fancy a nonsensical ramble about how it works.
Yep, that's exactly correct. If we had prophecy crew all talking with a human (or a few), everyone would be speaking their own language, and hearing it too. The translation spell simply "breaks down" each language's components, and puts them back together in the target's native (or desired) language. So, if Lilah was speaking Veuxdelian, the translation spell on the human would basically produce a translation in the human's language directly in their brain. The human gives their answer, and the spell does the same thing for Lilah in Veuxdelian. This spell would basically alter the target's perceptions from their auditory ventral stream and auditory dorsal stream, while divining how to properly do so from the language centers of the brain. It would be more accurate than the electronic translators (or Google translate) that exist in our world since the spell is literally taking information from the brain as the language is spoken, rather than just reading speech, but it wouldn't be perfect. I can't quite word my reasoning for why more language would provide better accuracy, but I think the idea is understandable. So, the translations in the beginning would be close to literal translations of whatever the speaker is saying, but as time went on, it would gradually become as if the individuals were fluently speaking the other's language. Basically, form equivalence to functional equivalence. This would make the translations somewhat awkward-sounding and clunky at first, especially if there were a lot of idioms and contextual stuff involved, hence once of the reasons have more language to interpret would result in clearer translations. The best example I can think of is all the different ways various works of ancient literature are translated, and how each translator's version is a bit different. Or those hilarious poor translations of certain media.
Oh, Mages definitely do. I'm not 100% certain about most of their religion, but I have the main gist down. There are two "primordial" duality type deities in their religion, and thirteen main gods. Anaeida is the creator deity, the highest possible being, and all of the world is her dream. Qhitho is referred to as "the first nightmare," and is Anaeida's primary opposition, what causes bad in the world (though it's not always seen as an evil force). The thirteen gods are Anaeida's "children," and based around the thirteen aspects of anima. Twelve is a sacred number to mages because it is the number of the gods, aspects of anima, planes of existence, etc. Technically, there are thirteen gods and aspects, but that's because there is this kind of weird subtext. Morai is on another level than the rest of the Firstborns (the main gods), and the necromancy is a banned magic, so back to twelve with both. Thirteen is somewhat sacred too because of this though. It doesn't make much sense, but Mages be crazy so I am Looking Away. I'll take this chance to mention Mage language uses animacy, because it also heavily ties in with their religion, but that is a complicated subject in itself. I have a lot of thoughts about Mage religion, but not much written out about it. This has inspired me to do that though, so perhaps you'll get to read some soon. If you ever have any Mage worldbuilding questions, feel free to chuck them at me so I'll finally get around to solidifying my wayward thoughts.
"I am inevitable," kinda seems like it would be a vampire saying, tbh. I just get those vibes. Anyways, I eagerly await drunk Alex.
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Post by mossecho on Jan 4, 2021 2:44:54 GMT -5
Starchaser :
Oh dear goodness, now I'm just looking forward to everything. The little bonding moments, the fight scenes (not that I can write fight scenes to save my life, but the practice will be nice), the plot-heavy ones, everything. The bonding moments will be a lot of fun though. Oh, on a seemingly unrelated note, how long is the Sanctum battle going to be? From our characters' perspective, not ours. I'm not sure if we ever talked about it, but I am not sure if it's going to be a 30-minutes-of-hell type of thing or a full-day-brawl sort of a deal.
Yep, yep, that's all it (: And yeah, vampires' views towards other species is pretty harsh and unsympathetic. They're very protective of their own but not at all towards others. Again, it varies from individual to individual, but generally that is how they roll. Vampires essentially categorize everyone as either "close to me" or "not close to me" (of course, they differentiate between those closest to them and those close but still somewhat distant, so their coven is prioritized over other vampires). It works on a species-wide and individual-level. Most of the general "close to me" individuals are just other vampires in general, but things can change. So Alex will eventually include the other prophecy members in the "those close to me but still pretty distant" group, but gradually they will become the "those I am very close to" group. I suppose the cult leader's definition of who is like him/close to him could have changed. Most vampires define the people close to them as their loved ones, then their coven, then their species, but the cult leader could define it as his cult instead of his species, coven, and family. Maybe that's how it worked? I don't know. oof that was an awful explanation
lowkey got the idea from doctor who, none of my stuff is original xD I really don't have much to contribute, but I like the idea that humans left warnings and threats for any magical or supernatural being wandering by. I doubt that in 15,000 years, no one wandered beyond the border, so it makes sense that the humans would have encountered the odd magical and/or supernatural person. I don't know how much they would know about each species (just 15,000 years is plenty of time to lose information), but it would be interesting if they took each encounter as a, well, a learning experience of sorts. For example, if a vampire came through, they would probably have observed how reliant vampires were on smell. The humans could have surrounded their settlements with some sort of scent that warned the vampires off (like burnt stuff or whatever) as a result. It would also be interesting to see how they (mis)remembered about the different Families. Again using vampires as an example, some were able to control those who they had bitten. Perhaps humans found a defense mechanism against that or carry some sort of poison to use in case they get bitten. I don't know, just kicking ideas around.
Star, you're writing is beautiful. There isn't anything else to say. I always look forward to reading a new post of yours. That's not me being nice, that is me being honest. I know that perfectionism has a way of making any sort of positive feedback seem... inherently wrong, for lack of a better way of putting it. But please know that I mean this, every single word. Your writing is beautiful <3
It's interesting to think about what about each species makes other species scared. Magic's versatility makes Mages pretty intimidating. For vampires, a very senses-based species, the disappearing spells in particular would be... eek. Again, from a vampires' perspective, basically any form of flight is also intimidating. From a species so used to being physically more capable on the ground, anyone with an advantage over that is a threat.
Ok, great. I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly. Thanks for the help! (:
oof I really need to start thinking about vampires' religion xD need to catch up with you Star
"I am inevitable" is a hella vampire saying. Oh that reminds me that I should come up with a few vampire proverbs and sayings. "I am inevitable" seems like something the cult leader would say a lot though. Speaking of whom, what are your ideas for what he's like?
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Rainbow
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Starchaser
barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 4, 2021 3:55:02 GMT -5
mossecho That is the aim (: This entire RP should be very, very good once the group is all together. Not that it hasn't been already, but all of the opportunities are going to be much better now. I love battle scenes too, but I am awful at them, so don't worry about it. Fighting is just fun. I don't think we ever talked about it, but I was imagining a 30-minutes-of-hell scenario. Everything happens very quickly, but there's a lot to deal with in the aftermath. Prophecy crew will basically just be fleeing though, since the cult is mainly after them anyways. We'll have plenty of time for long fights too though (: Gotta get those battle scenes in.
I don't have much to say here other than "makes sense" once again. It's so cold and apathetic, I can't wait for Alex to find himself unexpectedly caring about other species. The scandal. While you're right the cult leader doesn't feel close to his coven, or even species anymore, I kind of see him as not really caring about anyone. A large part of his backstory is gradually losing all his faith in humanity and turning his back on everyone, hence why he's bent on the destruction of the world. Probably the last people he felt close to was the rest of the chosen ones in his group. Considering they came the absolute closest to ending the curse, they probably formed a close bond like our characters will. They were pretty down fulfill the prophecy together, until they learned about the truth of the curse's cause and what they would have to do to end it. When they realized their ancestors caused the whole thing (you know, bringing about the apocalypse and ending millions of lives) just because of their own personal vendettas and animosity towards the other Families, they were all very betrayed and angry. So, they made a pact together that they wouldn't end the curse. They didn't want to die, and they didn't think they deserved to either, let their ancestors solve their own problems. Also, whenever the curse arises again, the Kingdom tends to be thrown into chaos and the Families start closing themselves off, playing the blame game, etc. Understandably, this doesn't exactly sit well with the group either. They started to wonder if the world was even worth saving. Hadn't they all brought it on themselves anyways? Didn't the fact that the prophecy never came true indicate it shouldn't?
The past prophecy crew makes the ultimate decision that they're going to defy their ancestors, not only by refusing to end the curse, but ensuring it. They found the cult together (which initially was just them and not really meant to be a cult anyways) and start preparing plans to keep the following chosen ones from succeeding. Of course, everyone else started to die off, save vampire dude. He's immortal, so the whole thing falls to him. He's spiteful as the next chosen one about his destiny being controlled, but making sure the world ends is also his way of finishing the rest of the crew's work. It's sort of a parallel to the prophecy founders. They ended up turning their backs on each other and creating the curse, the New Crew chose their bond over literally the entire world. It's their form of retribution for generations of people and history ruining the lives they could have had. Punishing the entire world for what a couple people did may seem extreme, but I think their reasoning is based around all of the Families consistently choosing their "own" kind over the others, and other such ideas. Perhaps they started out trying to find their own way to end the curse, but most of them passed away and vampire dude realized it was hopeless, so went the revenge route. Thus, his goal is mainly to stop prophecy crew, but dragging down one of the remaining bastion of society along the way is an added bonus. He realizes he'll probably need some help to carry out his plot, so he creates the cult with the idea that he's more so bringing about a new world rather than just destroying it.
Anyways, at the present point in time, vampire dude doesn't have much of any attachment to anyone. He's far too bitter and jaded for that. Maybe he feels some sense of loyalty to his followers, but they're ultimately pawns to a greater purpose. If anything, I see him as having a more vitriolic dislike for his species than the rest of them. He obviously knows first-hand what vampires are like and the things they did; it's part of why he's ending the world. In some ways, the foundation of his cult and bringing about the world's end is his outright rebellion against other vampires. Vampires are all about species loyalty and forever, well, he's blatantly going against all of that. Mine was also a terrible explanation, but moving on.
Ooh, I think I remember the one you're talking about too. The Kingdom has actually only been around for 3,000 years, but I don't know how long the human society would have been fully established. No more than 10,000 years ago, but that still gives them plenty of time to forget what they know about the Families, as well as run into the odd magical species. Honestly, most of my ideas were leaning more on the grim side of things, just because I was imagining the part with horror flavoring, but your ideas work too. One of the things I thought of was using the different species' weaknesses a lot and, like, putting out skulls on the above-ground portion of their city. Again, it was based around the creepy aesthetic.
I do not accept this opinion, but thank you <3
It's fun to think about the different species' fears so you can use them against your characters later (: (again, I was thinking about them having to deal with humans later). Heavenlys would probably be afraid of not being able to fly. Shifters don't like confined spaces, or anything that would keep them from changing forms. Like with vampires, they would probably be very afraid of not being able to trust their senses. Other Infernals would all be pretty variable. Mages are mostly afraid of not being able to use their magic for whatever reason, since that's basically their only line of defense against much more powerful species. Their entire existence is based around it, really. I haven't thought about it as much as I should have though.
No problem!
There's honestly not that much to catch up on. I still have a lot of thinking and fine-turning to do, along with retconning. I am looking forward to everything finally coming together though.
You can never have enough proverbs and sayings for your species. Mages rely a lot on the use of idioms and such, so I really should do more with it. Anyways, cult leader isn't as fleshed out as he should be. I don't think he's that old by vampire standards (he's 1024 btw), but he feels and acts like it. He's definitely very charismatic, likable, and "social" in a sense. Essentially, wouldn't strike most as the typical vampire, though he is well-dressed and silver-tongued. He's also very deliberate and methodical in his actions, even if people can't always see it. I see him as being close to the Chessmaster archetype (thank you, TV Tropes). He treats the whole plan he has a game of sorts, enjoys taunting and toying with people, especially the prophecy crew. He'll probably be the one to hint at their ancestors not being very good most of the time, and confuse them a lot by seeming to reveal pertinent information, or just letting them escape. Has a cool, calm exterior and isn't easily ruffled, but is probably kind of broken on the inside. I don't this is much to go on yet, but I am tired, so I will leave it at that. I'm planning on tossing out a few POV pieces with him, so maybe that will help everyone get a better idea of his character.
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Post by mossecho on Jan 4, 2021 20:54:00 GMT -5
well hell. i did it again. deleted the whole post after writing it. the same way. ugh. well, here is the whole thing, rewritten (but this time with more tangents because i have no self control). now excuse me while I scream into a pillow.
Starchaser : 30-minutes-of-hell it is! I'm looking forward to it. Also I'm just looking forward to having the whole group together. I know I've been saying that a lot, but... oh it's just so true. Really can't wait for it. (also, on a slightly unrelated note, it means that this will be a really great escape from the hell that will be my bio class next quarter, so... yeah) (really dreading that)
Sounds good, sounds good. It's weirdly... understandable, for lack of a better word, why the old prophecy group chose to just not do anything about it. From my understanding, the original group messed everything up and then the second group was going to fix everything and then went "well screw it, there will always be a mess because everyone sucks, why do we have to pick up the pieces?" and then abandoned everyone, yeah? An understandable sentiment, but completely wrong. I like it!
Ok, so about marking the area. 1. I love the idea of morbid markers (I'm imagining a skull of a Shifter who died mid-Shift... awesome from a creepy aesthetics pov, absolutely terrifying from basically every other perspective). 2. Not sure about how they would mark the area. It would be good for intimidation purposes, but it could also say exactly where everyone lived. Now, this really comes down to how well disguised the above-ground area is (like, do they have a way of hiding their farms? do they disguise them in any way? do they distance them from the actual settlement so invaders are attracted away from where everyone lives?), but I assume that the humans would want to hide their main settlement. Have you heard of the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant in New Mexico? It's an area where the US government (no duh it'd be the US govt, Moss, who else would it be if it's an area in the United States?!) is storing nuclear waste for the next 10,000 years. So they assembled a team to figure out how to label the area as dangerous so people in 10,000 years will still know that it's dangerous. You can't just write "DANGER, NUCLEAR WASTE!" because, well, language changes. (see below for why not, I got off track, or just skip to the next paragraph because that's actually relevant to my point) Take the word "terrific." Back in 1660, it was used to mean "very bad" or "frightful" instead of the modern, positive meaning. So "that play was terrific" meant something entirely different in 1660 than it does in 2021. Besides, who even knows if whoever is in New Mexico 10,000 years from now will be speaking a language that is descended from Modern English? So language doesn't work. So instead, people came up with symbols and other ways of saying "hey, don't come here, it's dangerous." One proposal was to change the landscape itself by creating giant, thorn-like spikes. This was rejected and for good reason too. Giant, thorn-like spikes are pretty interesting. Yeah, they're dangerous, but wouldn't you want to go see them? So instead of warning people to keep away, they would end up attracting people. Putting up warnings to magic-users could do the same thing. For one thing, someone might be curious. Or they might want to take revenge. Or something else entirely. At any rate, if you put those signals too close to your settlement, you're kinda saying "hey, come over here." It makes more sense to spread out your warnings, so you are not accidentally leading anyone who is curious/vengeful to come and take a look around.
No need to thank me for saying the truth <3
Haha, I just imagine the humans pouring vats of different-smelling perfumes all over the place and Alex going "what the hell...!"
Ok, ok, ok, Vampiric language time! I'm putting all of this in a spoiler because, well... it's not super relevant to anyone or anything but I need to type it out (even if it's the second time), so here I go!
Ok, so vampires love their literary tradition. As a result, they have a bunch of sayings and idioms and the like that relate back to this tradition. This makes it hard to understand any of their sayings if you do not know a lot about all of this background stuff. For example, my family has the saying "if it were a snake." Now, the entire saying is "if it were a snake, it would have bit you." This basically describes when you were looking for something even though it was obvious where it was (like if you spent five minutes looking in the fridge for the cheese when it was right at your eye level). But "if it were a snake" makes no sense on its own if you do not know the entire saying. Vampire sayings are like that, just... on steroids. So they might have a long, winding story about how a mouse was looking for some cheese, even though the cheese was right in front of them, and they spent so long doing that that a snake came around and bit them and then the mouse died, humiliated and feeling very, very dumb. If another vampire had just witnessed another trying to find something that was not at all hidden, they might say "mouse and snake" before pointing at the very-obviously-placed object. That saying would capture the other vampire's feeling of humiliation while advising them to be more careful about keeping track of their things, lest it come back to bite them. "Mouse and snake" alone does not capture that, so you need to know the whole story. Now that is a very bad example, but I hope it kinda expresses what I am trying to say.
Also... new words! Well, no new root words. Basically vampires are very strict about having new root words enter the language. So instead of borrowing new words for new things from other languages, they just put two of their already-existing roots together to represent the new shiny thing. Let's take "elevator" as an example (even though vampires don't have any elevators so they don't need a word for them but whatever, idc). Instead of just borrowing the word "elevator," they would take two existing "root words" and put them together. So they would say "lightning ladder" or "electric ladder" or something instead (well, the word for "electricity" is probably something like "lightning of man" ("man" in the sense of human, I just couldn't think of a way to say "lightning of person" or "lightning of human" that was not clunky or had other implications based on how vampires already use those words) or whatever, but you get the point). (Wowza this sub-tangent had a lot of tangents xD)
That said, they do sometimes make up new root words. They have an Academy set up (like the Académie Française) to regulate Vampiric (well, technically it only controls High Vampiric, but it's also pretty influential over Vulgar Vampiric) (just not officially) (and also Vulgar Vampiric is just such a mess from vampires' perspective that they don't want to deal with it) (although what they call a "mess" is just a fully functional and evolving language, perfectly natural and a-okay, but vampires are control freaks so it is Vulgar and Messy and Chaotic). This Academy approves new root words and allows them to be formally inducted into High Vampiric.
But because vampires love tradition and requiring people to know a bunch of background information to fully understand something, they do this with root words too. This means that new root words are permanently linked to their creator. So let's say Bob successfully got a new root word approved by the Academy. Well, good for Bob, that takes a lot of work. Now he has created a new root word for Vampiric. That root word will always be "his." It will always be associated with him and he with it. So if Bob becomes very popular, that root word will take on good connotations and be seen as more favorable to use, even if it has a negative meaning. So if the root word meant something like "war," it would be seen as implying that the war was just or favorable, even though "war" itself is a bad thing. But if Bob becomes unpopular, then it will get a negative connotation. This also applies to root words that were coined during a certain time period.
Likewise, words' implications can change according to when and how they were used. Remember that dictatorship? Well, that was a big deal in vampire history. During that era, they might have used an old, already-existing root word that meant something like a combination "change" and "improvement." Let's say this word was used to name a program that included the purging of vampire elders. Now, change and improvement are great. But because the dictatorship used this root word as the name for their purging program, the post-dictatorship vampire society would see this root as implying something negative. The literal meaning will be the same, but the implication won't be. It could literally mean "change and improvement," and that is what you would see in a dictionary, but vampires would interpret it as "a twisted idea of 'change and improvement'" or "change and improvement achieved through despicable, unspeakable means." It implies something completely different than its dictionary definition, but you would only know that if you knew the word's history. In order to truly understand Vampiric, you have to know a ton of the language's history. Not only how the language itself evolved, but how root words were introduced to the language, when they were used, and what they were associated with. If you learned Vampiric by memorizing the grammatical rules and the dictionary definitions, you would be missing a massive part of the language.
Ok, gotcha. Thanks for explaining him! Also, really looking forward to the POV pieces! I am assuming he'd be Alex's grandfather, just seeing how old he is? Also, the prophecy members became, well, the prophecy members as a result of turmoil across all the Families, right? Maybe the vampires' turmoil at the time was the dictatorship? That would give the cult leader some reasonable justification for believing so strongly that people are naturally evil. Of course, this does have a problem, just since the dictatorship (thus far) only really impacted vampires. Maybe the government decided to attack other Infernals, I don't know. Actually, that reminds me of something. Infernals are by far the most diverse Family, just since their species live very separate lives. Yet vampires seem to represent them a lot. I understand that the Infernal prophecy member will always be a vampire, since the original one was a vampire and vampires are not ones to have children with others outside their own species, but I kinda wonder what other Infernals would think about being represented by the most insular species. I have no real problem with it from an outside-the-RP pov, but it could have interesting implications for politics among different Infernal species. I don't know. Just something to think about, how that could be pretty interesting. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ or it might not come up at all, lol
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Starchaser
barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 5, 2021 2:42:12 GMT -5
mossecho "(but this time with more tangents because i have no self control). now excuse me while I scream into a pillow. " oh oof, if this isn't me. Also, sorry if this is somewhat on the short side (not that I'm sure slogging through extremely long rambles is fun either), I'm forcing myself to finish my mage gang post at any cost tonight. EDIT: well this isn't short
I am slightly impartial to battles that are brief, but incredibly taxing and do a lot of damage. Quality over quantity, I guess? Huh, maybe that's why my posts are so long. And I oop- Not only will it be nice to have the group together, we'll finally be able to force cooperation and temporary trust between them all as they fight for their lives, and everyone else's (is that grammatically correct? ah, heck, i don't care at this point). This will be a very nice escape for life in general. It always is, but once the plot gets going I can dedicate my full attention to that instead of my responsibilities. Very excited. I'm dreading my bio classes too (but not more than the chem classes). I'm a bio major. Don't ask.
Basically, that's the gist of it, yeah. The most recent chosen group before ours, the one with the cult vampire, is actually one of several chosen one groups who failed though. That group is just the only one who really chose to fail. The prophecy has been around for about 14,000 years now, so that's roughly 140 groups of chosen ones who have gone by, including the "evil" group. I see them as already not having much hope, considering how many chosen ones decides to be selfish/uncooperative/cowardly/whatever reason they have for not succeeding, and seeing history constantly repeat itself (the Families turning on each other, not caring about the other species, etc.) really embittered them. There's also the fact that they were living at the start of an era generally referred to as "the strife" or something vaguely threatening like that. This was considered the worst, most tumultuous period in the Kingdom of Veuxdelys's history, and eventually lead to The Decline. It was basically the only time war between the different nations in the kingdom happened one a large, international scale.
Considering it was only 1,000 years ago, that would actually explain a lot about why vampires are so isolationist, but I think they'd probably be even more so if it were only that much time. Honestly, I thought about changing the curse to returning every 1,000 years instead, because that seems more reasonable for the number of failed prophecy groups, then have the large gap be like 5,000 years. Also, considering most of the species have longer lifespans than humans, it would make more sense for them to have mostly patched relations by the time our group's time rolls around. That might also help explain how the kingdom was eventually founded and the population rebuilt somewhat, if they had no curses constantly bombarding them every, like, generation. Then, we could also just say that the kingdom is just older than I originally planned, probably starting out when the curse hit again, that's part of why everyone turned so easily. OR, we could say the proto-kingdom is what fell and the Kingdom of Veuxdelys is established to help keep something like that from happening again. I had a gap of history on the timeline, so this might actually help fill in the details. Also again, that would explain why so many no longer believe in the curse. I might make that the new canon. Curse every 1,000 years, long gap from "evil" chosen ones decision 5,000 years (cult leader is also now 5024), KoV established about 5,000 years ago or something. So our group would be the 12th prophecy crew. Score one for Mage sacred number being good worldbuilding. I totally planned this.
Anyways, a lot of those problems where because the curse had recently returned and was the worst of any time it came back (lots of magical anomalies, environmental issues, famine, all that fun stuff). The curse gets stronger every time the cycle isn't ended, so that's a given. So the chosen ones of that time period basically saw the worst atrocities of every Family, the hopelessness of their situation, yadda yadda. When the group finally learns the truth of how the curse even came to be that's basically the final straw. It wasn't the result of some accident meant to bring about peace, it was the ones who had previously preached about harmony turning their backs on the original goal and choosing to pursue revenge out of hatred instead. If everything their ancestors told them was a lie, how much more was? If the prophecy founders were the ones who broke everything, intentionally even, why should they have to sacrifice their lives to fix it? Knowing the prophecy's origin, and constantly seeing what terrible actions all people were capable of, the group figured there was no hope. Even if they "fixed" the curse, that wouldn't change people's natures. A perfect land wouldn't do anything for a broken humanity. So they said "let the world have what it deserves, and what it clearly wants." In essence, their attitude became "why bother?".
I have heard of the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant and I think it's awesome. Well, I mean, I was reading an article once about what you were talking about (the whole "how do we warn future people about the nuclear waste hazard" thing, which is how I learned about it in the first place), and it's just very interesting to me. The concept art is, for lack of better word, metal. You're right about danger attracting people, I think. Maybe I'm just Big Dumb, but I see or hear about something that looks dangerous and I immediately want to go there. Case in point, I recently learned about this branch of the River Wharfe in England called "The Strid." Basically, it's an area of the river with a deep underwater channel caused by the river narrowing dramatically upstream, and it has an undercut bank. It's been called the deadliest river in the world because it has a 100% mortality rate; nobody who has ever fallen in had made it out alive. Apparently people used to (before they had a bunch of warnings) underestimate its danger because they thought it was just a shallow little stream (even still people underestimate the danger frequently). I've seen videos of it though, and honestly, I think it looks weird enough on the surface that common sense would ward people off, but what do I know? That brings me to your point though, immediately upon hearing about this I said "man, wish I could go swimming in that, just to see what it's like." Now, obviously I wouldn't do that (probably), but... Would I, if given the chance, go stand on the sometimes-treacherously-slippery rocks beside the river just to get a good look at it? You bet your braincells I would! I'd probably try to sit on the edge and dangle my legs in too. It should be noted, however, that I am an absolute self-proclaimed moron, but I do think humans are attracted to potentially dangerous things. Humans be crazy. And that's just a river. A really dangerous and cool one, sure, but it's only a river. I could really see myself, when coming across an area that was surrounded by giant spikes, being like "I should totally investigate that." All that pointlessly long ramble to say I agree with you. Also, you should totally go watch videos of the river, it's super neat.
However, I saw that as almost being the point with these people. After thousands of years, the humans would definitely have a chance to develop new beliefs and such, to the point where magic was seen as being evil. Honestly, "magic" has been seen to some groups as the result of evildoing in our world throughout history. So, the humans would probably ultimately want to see magic destroyed and magic users gone. I had a vague idea of them eventually coming to believe the Cataclysm was the result of some angry deity or something cursing the world and corrupting magic because people had used it to cause destruction and what have you. This leads to them deciding that the way to get the world back to normal is rid it of magic, so they have a lot of rituals/traditions/etc. based around warding off magic or whatever. I'm so good at explaining things. Anyways, if they get the opportunity, the humans absolutely take the chance to kill some magic creatures, both because they're seen as very dangerous, and perhaps in hope of appeasing the powers that may be. So the warnings would be less of "don't come here," and more of a "we live here, your kind isn't welcome here, and you're next now" type thing. Again, most of this was just for the creepy aesthetic and fear factor.
I imagined that the city would have slowly started moving deeper underground over time, sort of seeing the surface as bad. Only special "surface walkers" are allowed outside the cave system, and those people would probably be similar to the military, as well as those whose work necessitated being on the surface. Maybe they have a group specifically trained to hunt down and neutralize magical species. That said, I'm sure most of their warnings would be on the outskirts of the above-ground areas they used, and they'd have ways of disguising certain other areas. Also, I kind of thought of it as being made to look old and abandoned? I'm not sure how much sense that makes, or how it would be done in theory, I just thought it sounded cool. There'd probably also be a lot of traps around, stuff that only the humans knew to avoid. For areas they wanted specifically wanted magical creatures to stay away from, they'd probably just use their weaknesses against them. A werewolf generally wouldn't go near a a building that used a bunch of silver decor if they could help it, even if they were curious. Most of the species have specific materials that harm them. That would probably also be utilized in their traps and stuff. I almost could see them making, idk, paths almost. Forcing different species to follow certain trails to avoid their weakness... leading them right into a trap *evil laughter* Good way to separate prophecy crew too. As for the farms, they'd probably have some way of making them blend into the environment. Honestly, since we're figuring they are good with environmental science and tech, their farms probably wouldn't work like the ones we're used to. They might look fairly natural, but once more, that's not something I know a lot about.
Also, I don't really mind side explanations, and I definitely get what you mean about language. Honestly, even just looking at how much different language and communication on the internet is than in real life is a bit mind-blowing at times. Then there's this whole oddity of certain generations (like later millennials and younger) just seeming to naturally know the language, while older generations aren't always able to catch on as easily/learn it. I also get off on tangents constantly, like just now. Anyways.
I personally like the idea of having the senses disagree with each other. You smell fire? You don't see it. You don't hear it. Nothing else indicates there is a fire around... but you smell the smoke and charred wood. Or you think you hear footsteps, yet there's no sign of any life having been there for hundreds of years. Or when you could have sworn you saw something out of the corner of your eye, but there's no trace of anyone having passed by. No scent or sound. Even just... all the senses say something different. Almost like an illusion spell.
That was a very interesting read about vampire language. The thing about sayings only making sense if you know the full context is fun to think about, especially since it makes me think about all the inside jokes and idioms different people (entire countries all the way down to a pair of friends) have that wouldn't make sense to anyone else. Or their version of the saying is so different from someone else's that they wouldn't make the connection. Heck, sometimes people don't even know the origin of their own country or culture's idioms. Like "cost an arm and a leg" came from portraits in the past being painted without certain limbs because it was cheaper, but I only learned that recently. Not that that really relates to your whole thing, but I always enjoy stuff about language.
Hopefully I can do him justice. So with the new timeline, would he be Alex's four great-grandfather now? The curse's return is general marked by turmoil across all the Families, usually because it starts causing a bunch of problems, leading to panic and chaos, etc. The prophecy is a time thread of sorts (thanks to Shoot for that term). It will end when the curse is defeated, but until that happens, it continues on and selects a new candidate from the appropriate generation each time the curse resurfaces. That would be a good addition to cult leader's backstory. Like I was saying above, he and the other chosen ones of that time lived in one of the worst eras since Vaknad's Reign (this hasn't been explained much, but a necromancer seized control of an area containing what would become the Kingdom of Veuxdelys and made life really miserable for everyone). A lot of why they all feel to that "people are so bad that they don't deserve to exist" line of thinking is because they all saw firsthand the worst side of every Family (and species), including their own. So the dictatorship could very well be one of vampire dude's motivators. With everything else going on, I don't know that it would really be an issue the dictatorship only affected vampires. It might just be me not really getting what you mean exactly (like I said, I'm very dumb).
As for Infernal politics, I'm not really sure. They're one of the least-developed Families simply because vampires are so insular and they're the only ones with substantial worldbuilding. The way I saw it, the main Infernal subfamilies have their own, separate governments. Demons are by far the most common Infernal species (nearly 40% of it), followed by vampires (15%) and then fae (15%), with every other species combined only making up about 30% of the population. With that in mind, most of the other species aren't going to have much influence in politics, but there's also the fact that most of them are nomadic and solitary. I will say that I planned on the demon government being similar to an adhocracy (which is essentially a government that is defined as being flexible, adaptable, and informally organized) blended with a demarchy (random selection of government officials from a pool of eligible, voluntary citizens). There wouldn't be really any strict rules or formalization, it would essentially just function to serve and represent the people when needed, with none of the positions being very well-defined. If you're in the government, you just do what you end up having to do. I'm explaining it poorly, but the gist is that Infernal politics are weird. The demon government is also over all other Infernal species other than vampires and fae, mostly because the remaining species have too small of populations to gain much political traction and influence, and vampires and fae both have their own systems that are really only for them. So there would be political positions filled by a combination of the remaining species in the demon government, allowing them all to have a voice. There'd probably have to be certain rules around the selection dictating how many representatives each species would get and such. Also, in international matters, Infernals send delegates from all the main governments, so vampires only really represent their species in that area.
Like you said, there's no getting around the chosen one always being a vampire. That's the plot and in-world explanation. How the other Infernal species feel about this probably varies. With how long it's been since the prophecy was ever really thought of by most, a lot of the species have forgotten about it, or at least tend to just think of it as a legend meant to explain the state of the world. The Cataclysm is well-established knowledge, but there being a prophecy about the curse that caused it and people stopping it is iffier. The different species have varying beliefs about it. This would probably be especially true with Infernals, just since some of their species are so new. Also, since so many of them keep to themselves (not in the same way as vampires, they just kinda wander around by themselves or with their families and mind their own business, though most individuals are chill with encountering the other species), information about it was probably lost over the years. However, if it became common knowledge that the prophecy existed and was currently relevant (?), I could see some Infernals being worried about that. They're probably more aware than anyone that vampires look down on the other species and are isolationist. That might be cause for concern, since one of the least cooperative species is supposed to save the world with chosen ones from the other Families. Not sure how that would play into their relations with vampires though. There's not much they could do about it.
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Post by mossecho on Jan 5, 2021 16:33:54 GMT -5
Starchaser : the amount of times i've typed "sorry this is short" and written way too much is... horrifying
Oh dear goodness, can I just send you, like, all of my bio homework? I cannot tell you how much I don't want to take that class xD but I have to take it, so I'll take it. Damn my school's core curriculum. And damn the fact that I haven't taken a bio class in four years. I am so screwed.
Ok, I think I understand what you're saying. I figured that the prophecy group did not appear on a... schedule, per se. They just came about when the world needed it (oh god that sounds like an excerpt from a bad superhero comic). It might be a bit more simple if we just cut the amount of prophecy groups to the original group, one or two groups later, the "evil" group, and then maybe a one or two failed groups later on. The first group started the curse and the next one or two failed to stop it. That gives the "evil" group some justification for how pessimistic they are about human nature and the like. Likewise, having one or two groups afterwards that the cult leader defeated would make him more of an intimidating (and experienced) opponent. I am just concerned about how we've already established that multiple species don't believe in the prophecy and curse and all that. If we have too many prophecy groups, then there wouldn't be a reason for them to not believe in the prophecy or the curse. They could not have faith in its validity, but that's not quite the same as not believing in it at all. Also I don't really care how old the cult leader is, so 5024 or 1024 is ok. As for when the Kingdom was founded... idk. Either way, 3,000 years and 5,000 years is more than plenty of time to create a well-established center of power and government system.
I just googled the Strid and yeah, I totally got the urge to jump across it. Not that I would (practically, I don't live in the UK, and on a more personal note, I have more faith in my survival skills than to do something that stupid), but... ooh it's tempting. I think most people have some affinity for doing things that are dangerous and/or stupid. It doesn't mean we will, just that you might have that urge. Like why it's tempting to lean against a railing when if you fell over, you would plummet to your death. You know that you aren't going to fall, but it's fun to feel that thrill. Still, your survival instinct keeps you from leaning too far (or leaning at all, in my case), but the temptation's there. But hey, curiosity killed the cat (but satisfaction brought it back).
I see the point in the "we live here, you aren't welcome, you're next messaging," and I do think that it would be something that the humans would try to communicate. On the other hand, I think they would want to hide their settlements pretty well. If you have children and elderly folk and people who are otherwise just not ready to fight supernatural and/or magical creatures, you do not want to let those supernatural and/or magical creatures know where you are. That's just... a bad idea. So maybe their messaging would be more of a combination of "you aren't welcome, you're next" and "good luck finding us, we're coming to get you" kinda thing?
Gotta say, I love the trap ideas! Just the whole mind effery of "oh you think you're being smart by avoiding the traps but actually you are walking right into The Trap" is gorgeous. As for the "surface walkers" and the fake abandoned areas and everything, I really like all that too. I kinda wonder if it would be possible for them to have a "decoy city," if that makes sense. Like an area that is not too obvious as to be too obviously a decoy, but also not too secluded to be overlooked. Of course, practically speaking, idk how well this would work. It couldn't be an actual city (too many resources needed to build it) and you would have to walk a fine line between not being too obvious (to avoid looking like a trap) and not being too hidden (to avoid being overlooked) (and I realize I basically already said it but whatever, it would be really hard).
I have probably already recommended this, but Gretchen McCulloch's Because Internet is a great book about English online. Highly, highly recommend. As for the older generation thing, my goodness, so relatable. It's just so fascinating, I love it.
heh, I just imagine Alex and Clarisse being so confused by why they smell this thing but cannot see the thing and everyone else being like "... what?"
Oh my goodness yes, sayings and their origins are the weirdest things and I love them. Honestly I just love things that make someone who's not familiar with it go "wait what the hell?" It's just so fun. And then horrible to explain, because yes it sounds weird and is weird, but yes it also makes so much sense because reasons. also I love when everyone thinks a word or a saying had a particular origin but then it's like "well no not at all, actually" or when people don't realize how much language changes and goes crazy (like, look up "stew" in Merriam-Webster and then look at the third definition, it always throws me for a loop)
I have no idea if he would be his great-great-grandfather or great-great-great-grandfather. Probably one of those two, just since vampires take forever to have kids (especially those of Alex's family's rank). Also, when I said that the dictatorship only affecting vampires might be an issue, I just meant that we would need a lot more stuff to affect other groups and that it might not be super realistic to have something like that be so... isolated, if that makes any sense. But thinking about it now, that wouldn't be a problem. The prophecy group is supposed to emerge when everything's just a total dumpster fire, so it wouldn't be unrealistic at all. Just... disregard that point, I guess 😅
Oh, woops, sorry. I meant inter-species Infernal politics. So how different Infernal species interact with each other and treat each other and how that all goes down. That said, I like how you're setting up the other species' governments, it makes a lot of sense for each one. As for how other Infernals interact with vampires... I have honestly no ideas. It's probably a "eh we can deal with each other but we're not really friends, just forced partners" sort of thing. Vampires are closest to other Infernals, just since they live in the same area and probably engage in a decent amount of trade (by vampire standards) and the like, but I'm not sure what else they'd talk about.
Speaking of which, I have no idea how the vampire economy would work. Not that this is super important or anything, just... idk. It's mostly state-run... probably. Exports include natural materials that can be replenished but take a while, just since long-term planning is vampires' jam. So stuff like, well, wood. That's all I've got. Trees take a long time to grow, but vampires would be careful about growing it and would have the patience to both start and maintain decent forest farms. They could probably extend the same philosophy to other plants that take a long time to grow. Just if they are going to be competitive with other species and Families' exports, they need to play to their advantages. One of vampires' big advantages is just how long they live and, as a result, how long they think ahead. So their top exports would relate to that. But other than that... I have no idea how their economy would run effectively.
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Rainbow
#CDC0DD
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Starchaser
barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 5, 2021 19:38:04 GMT -5
mossecho I think always vastly underestimate how much I will have to say (probably because I'm so prone to tangents). This one actually should be short though. In part because I'm working on languages instead of my mage gang post because I've written myself into a corner. EDIT: Well, to take a line from Alex, at least I can be consistent in my weakness.
Honestly, yes. Do it so that I'm forced to figure out how stuff in my own major works. For legal reasons, this is a joke, but I actually would try to help if you genuinely wanted it. Don't know how useful it would be though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The main reason it was on a specific schedule in the explanation was for simplicity's sake. The reason I see the prophecy as happening at various intervals is because there isn't really any divine or supernatural elements involved, so to speak. The prophecy wasn't created by deities or whatever, it was made by people. I suppose we could also say this is why it doesn't come true, it's flawed. It's not "destiny" dictating who is chosen, it's basically just chance. This is because the prophecy is really just a spell. A complex one, but it's still just a spell that has to behave in pre-programmed ways and can't deviate from that. It's complicated exactly how it works, but the souls of the founders are all tied to the curse because they gave the Ancient Evil some of their powers (and thus soul essence) is exchange for it carrying out whatever they had decided on the other Families. Obviously that didn't pan out for them. Anyways, because their souls are tied to it, the original prophecy founders were supposed to be the only ones who could also end it. They got around this by leaving behind pieces of their souls in the stones (phylacteries/horcruxes/whatever you wanna call them), allowing them some form of immortality, though not exactly. These can only be bound to people who share some of their soul essence (or DNA, to be scientific), therefore only relatives of the original chosen can be part of the prophecy. Also, the spell probably wouldn't be advanced enough to just pick any qualified person, there would have to be some linking factor between all the chosen ones since, strictly speaking, a spell has to have some sort of definitive constraints. Therefore, once again, descendants of the original founders work.
As for the time between each chosen group and number of chosen groups, it's a little difficult to say exactly. The only real reason I gave it specific intervals at all was because that was the easiest way to establish the timeline and have a definitive end to when the curse would destroy the world fully. However, I don't see it actually being as specific as "ever x years" this happens again. It's more of that the Ancient Evil has to have time to "replenish" it's energy before making another reappearance. It grows in power over time, so the longer it waits to come back around, the better its chances of destroying everything. So, actually, the curse would probably take longer to come back every time it does, because it expels more power and needs more time to "recharge," and also because it wants to finally end things for certain whenever it returns. Also, yes, the Ancient Evil is sentient, though not precisely the way we would consider most living things. Also, I have a pretty good idea of what it actually is, but... well, ya know. Spoilers (; Anyways, that would then make sense for there to only have been a handful of chosen one groups. I still liked twelve because Mage sacred number, but six works too. The prophecy founders, two groups following, evil group, and one group after, because I do like the idea that the cult has stopped a group of chosen ones before. That's scary and evil and I love it. Though the reason the evil group was the most recent was because that allowed for the biggest gap to the next prophecy crew, but whatever.
On a related note, it's more like the species don't have faith in the prophecy anymore, or have twisted views on how it should be fulfilled. That's my bad for wording it poorly though, and I was referring mainly to the Infernal species in that case, but I didn't make that very clear. I think it's been mentioned in RP too, which is also my mistake for not providing much explanation behind it. Essentially it's more like what you said, they don't believe in its validity. Some species might not believe in it at all (mainly the younger ones), due to not being as directly involved with it or not being around long enough to have lived through it, etc. Also, I don't see the idea of the prophecy as having been a super big deal, well, ever. The prophecy founders never really went and were like, "yeah we're making this prophecy that will solve everything," in part since they didn't want to reveal how closely they were tied to the world effectively ending. It was more of a "don't worry everyone, we'll fix this" type of deal, painting them more as heroes stepping up to save the world from certain doom. I know in canon we've said that people know the prophecy founders caused the curse, just on accident. However, I don't think it's been brought up that much in RP, so I think it would be reasonable to say that everyone thinks the curse just randomly happened as the result of just bad luck, basically. If anything, that would be a far more crushing blow to launch evil group to their decision, and also angst for our characters. Look at me, retconning like a veritable Erin.
Anyways, the timeline never bothered me in terms of being able to establish government/culture/language/all that, I mostly just wanted there to have been one chosen group from the era of the Kingdom before our crew came along. Just since there would be some history to it in that case, and also so people would know the prophecy existed at all. Along with that point, it's mostly only the families descended from the founders were aware of the prophecy, and even then it's more of a story passed down through the generations about someone in the family being destined to bring peace back to the world. Some groups never even made it very far, or even bothered heeding their "destiny" at all, so it's not like there were always a bunch of grand stories surrounding the past chosen ones, especially since most people didn't have a lot of background knowledge in the first place. It's likely they never knew the chosen ones existed at all. Now, the prophecy used to be a bit more well-known, but the farther from the Cataclysm you go, the more it faded into obscurity. A lot of this is because there wasn't much historical record before the Kingdom of Veuxdelys was established, and part of why there are any stories about it at all is from the Families studying ancient writing. There were a few groups later on that really became exceptional (I'm thinking the ones who brought down Vaknad) and they also helped bring the prophecy to light again. With there being so few groups in the revised edition of this plot, this isn't even really a factor anymore, but that long ramble was my "logic" (and I use that term very loosely) behind the original plot.
My survival instinct isn't that great. It cares more about things that can't actually hurt me. Oh well. I am glad to hear the Strid tempts others as well though.
Well, like I was saying before, that was an ~aesthetic~ idea. It males logical sense for the humans to want to live mostly in obscurity, but I just like the creepiness better. However, on your other notes, I don't think that would really alert the magical species where they were per say. The actual city, where most of the people are (the ones who also don't go to the surface), would be deep underground. All the entrances to it would be very well-concealed, so the location is already hidden, and I'm also picturing the cave system being labyrinthian. If anyone chanced to wander down there, the likelihood of them finding the city out of all the passages they could take would be very, very slim. Also traps. They get too close to somewhere they shouldn't be, or heck even not close, and they set off a trap. Also also, kinda going along with the above-ground area looking abandoned and stuff, that was the point of it. People stumbling across the place with all the warnings would think that was it. That was the entire civilization, they already found it, which would distract from them trying to find the actual city (because they wouldn't know there was one). I suck at explaining things, but in my mind, having there be signs that something was hidden would encourage more investigation, which the humans wouldn't want. So the warnings wouldn't really convey "you won't find us," because the magical creatures would assume they already did, but the people who live(d) there aren't afraid of them. Cause they can just kill them. And definitely will. That was the idea, anyways. Realistically, having signs that so obviously point to where an entire inhabitance is might not make much sense (I mean, we basically do that in real life though), but the humans wouldn't care about that because they know their real home is hidden. Honestly, I don't know if just having, like, remnants of dead magical creatures would convey that much nuance anyways? I guess if I saw a human skull speared on some pointy sticks surrounding some wall, I'd just assume that someone lived there, and could/would kill me.
Anyways, I didn't picture the above-ground areas being right over top of the cave system and stuff. More like, some tunnels/caves lead from the city to another area, and that is beneath the other stuff. Like I said, the area where everyone lives is deep underground, they just have other underground areas for different purposes (ie maybe something like storage/processing/whatever area for food would be beneath the farms and such). I agree that having an entire "decoy" city wouldn't really work out logistically or make sense, but it could probably be a combination of stuff the humans actually used for a purpose, and just also made it look like it was enough for people to have lived there. I doubt the "decoy" area would be on the same scale as the true city anyways. It would look more like a little village. I didn't imagine the "city" being super huge either, since there aren't that many humans. Easily enough to pose a threat to our group since it's just a few magical creatures, but not a ton of people. I don't know if they would want to deal with the potential threat of magical creatures or other dangers being around all the time, so most of the stuff they use daily would be towards the center, while the village or whatever would be more decoy stuff further out. This would also be where the main line of defense would be, with all the traps and guides to traps and such.
Not really responding to much here, just because I am lazy, but my thoughts can basically be summed up as: language interesting and I love it.
I think I like him being Alex's great-great-grandfather. Anyways, I understand what you mean now. Like you said though, bad stuff would have been going on everywhere, so it doesn't really matter.
Oh, yeah, I got what you were asking. Honestly, most of my tangents are just me trying to set up background and context for my answers, since I'm not sure how much of certain worldbuilding aspects I've already discussed. Also, it sometimes helps me know where I'm going with my point if it's something I hadn't thought about yet either. I had mostly the same thoughts as you. Regardless of vampires being the Infernals' representative species in the prophecy, it wouldn't change their interactions much. A lot of that is just because none of the Infernals deal with international relations much. Fae are by far the most involved with other Families, but not really politically. Since vampires don't really want to interact with other species and most Infernals are nomadic/solitary, they probably wouldn't have much of a relationship beyond living in the same nation and sometimes trading.
I don't have a lot of ideas on economy for any of the Famielies. I just know that Mages and Heavenlys trade a lot, because they're the only ones who really trade technology. Mages supply most of Sanctum's stuff and also luxury goods. Elementals export mainly agricultural products and soem natural resources. Shifters don't trade much outside of their own nation, that's because most of their "currency" is just based on a bartering system. They trade more among packs than with the other nations. Though I could see them trading certain natural resources (wood, stone, water, furs, foods, whatever). Infernals as a whole have access to a lot of ores and precious gems. All the Families except Shifters could probably trade services (enchanted items would probably be an example of that for Mages), just since their magic types are all capable of different things. I really haven't researched this as well as I should have. Economics are really, really not my area of expertise. Let the records show that I detested government and economics in high school. I find researching them and the worldbuilding interesting... but I don't know. The classes were always extremely boring to me.
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Post by mossecho on Jan 10, 2021 21:34:07 GMT -5
sorry about not responding, it takes a while and i've been busy (moving back to the dorms, prepping for classes, etc), but quick note: I just got my syllabus for my linguistics class and we have to craft a big of A LANGUAGE OF OUR OWN DESIGN for the final and !!!!! so excited
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Post by mossecho on Jan 29, 2021 22:37:11 GMT -5
hey, just wondering Star, is it cool if I respond in bullet point form? that cuts down the time it takes to write a response and midterms should be starting soon and school sucks (not really) (just bio)
also, prob going to write up some preliminary ideas for vampire culture (as a quick preview: very close within families, Day of the Dead-esque holiday, long tradition of murals and similar visual artforms (all done with ingredients that smell good, of course), similarly long tradition of music with various instruments (mostly based on Mariachi music and corridos, but we'll see if that changes), bunch of stuff about perfumes and the like) (obviously that preview was more for me to jot down notes than to be a preview, heh 😅)
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Rainbow
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Starchaser
barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 29, 2021 22:44:06 GMT -5
mossecho Honestly, I don't care if you respond or not. I'm not gonna force people to have conversations with me, I know I can be really long-winded and rambling. If you want to, that's fine. I don't care about the format. But like I said, I understand if you don't at all, it's cool.
Sounds fun and can't wait to see c: I should really do anything for Elementals and Mages.
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Post by mossecho on Jan 31, 2021 3:11:53 GMT -5
Starchaser : Ok, I'll go for bullet points then. Idk when I'll be able to have something up, but I'll get to it eventually (after i get through these dang psets my lord heaven)
Speaking of my homework, I spent a good period of time not working on it and instead figuring out my playlist for Alex. It's far from done (I'd like to add more songs and there are some on here that I'm iffy about), but whatever. The list is below. Some songs are here for the lyrics/message, others for the instrumentals, some just for the vibe. There is not a ton of cohesion here either (although you do see quite a few songs from the Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse soundtrack because goodness I love that movie and I love its soundtrack even more) (but then you see "Experience" dropped in here like to odd man out). Again, this needs editing. But I'd figure I'd hand over the rough draft before I spent more time on this. Also, this is in no particular order.
- "What's Up Danger (with Black Caviar)" - Blackway, Black Caviar
- "Let Go" - Beau Young Prince
- "R.I.P 2 My Youth" - The Neighbourhood
- "Wake Up Dead" - T-Pain, Chris Brown
- "Scared of the Dark (feat. XXXTENTACION)" - Lil Wayne, Ty Dolla $ign, XXXTentacion
- "Die For Me (feat Future & Halsey)" - Post Malone, Halsey, Future
- "Lo Vas A Olvidar (with ROSALÍA)" - Billie Eilish, ROSALÍA
- "MALAMENTE - Cap.1: Augurio" - ROSALÍA
- "Power" - Isak Danielson
- "Silence" - Marshmello, Khalid
- "Experience" - Angèle Dubeau, La Pietà
- "Empires" - Ruelle
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Rainbow
#CDC0DD
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barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 31, 2021 13:19:23 GMT -5
mossecho Okay, whatever you want. Like I said, if you don't really feel like responding to it at this point, I understand.
I finished listening to the Alex playlist and I'm emotional now (how dare you include experience on there?). Honestly, I'm not sure exactly what I was expecting, but some of them surprised me. EDIT: I feel like I should clarify here that I don't mean this to sound rude or anything, more like an "oh, that's super interesting" way because, as I say below, I don't find music on my own a lot so most of these songs I haven't heard and it's cool being able to see songs you had in mind for Alex. I went in with almost no expectations though. I have a hard time finding songs that give me Alex vibes, but that's also probably because I hardly ever find new music. I just... accidentally find a song I get obsessed with, listen to it on repeat for a few weeks until I feel like an emotionless husk, then go back to one of my other favorites and eventually get in the mood for the other song again, then listen to it on repeat again. Repeat cycle. So thanks for forcing me to branch out lol
Also, cohesion? HA. None of my playlists have any of that. I'm not super satisfied with any of my character's playlists, except for maybe Gabriel and Harley. They need more songs though.To be fair though, Gabriel is that song now. Like, his entire personality, character arc, everything, suddenly hit me when I heard it. He'd been missing something, and it was that song.
I guess Zane's is fairly solid too. And our main antagonist has only two songs, but they're both perfect for him. I don't dislike Lilah's per se, I think all the songs work still, but it could be better. For her especially, some songs had to go on there because of one lyric being phenomenal and fitting.
I'll be honest, most of the playlists I've made are just songs I happened to find and really like, so I threw them into a playlist as long as it gave me even the most minimal vibes for one of my characters. I should really go back over some of them. However, all of my mages have songs that include French in them, so I'm very happy that's what I decided their accent is similar to.
I'm also glad I'm not the only one including songs just for certain aspects (vibes, lyrics, instrumentals, whatever). I still really need to search a bit more for songs though. I've been slacking.
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Post by mossecho on Jan 31, 2021 15:35:51 GMT -5
Starchaser : Oh no no no, I really want to respond, I just take a lot of time to come up with something substantial enough that I feel like it's worth posting and... don't got the time rn. I really should just type it up over the course of a few days instead of finding the time to have at it all in one go, but... there really is no reason not to do that. I just haven't managed it yet.
Also, no problem about being surprised, honestly my taste is so hodge-podge that I'm surprised by some of the stuff that ends up in my playlists xD but at any rate, I didn't think it was rude at all, so no worries there. Also you're thing about not really finding much music on your own and then repeating a song over and over is just... so true. So, so true. According to Spotify, I streamed Camila Cabello's "Dancing in the Club" 201 times. I first listened to it on one random day in October and I listened to it at least a hundred times that day. So... yeah. Good job me xD
To be completely honest, I haven't listened to the other characters' playlists. Mostly just been focusing on cultivating my own trash heaps of playlists. Although I somehow managed to keep all of my pop and the like out of Alex's playlist. He doesn't strike me as a pop sort of person.
EDIT: Also, "Lo Vas A Olvidar" has become that song that I keep repeating over and over. We'll see how long it takes for me to learn the lyrics by heart to the point where I can sing (or attempt to sing) the song without hearing the music or getting any prompt. That's the point at which I know I've listened to something too much.
EDIT OF THE EDIT: Also, hella happy "Experience" made you emotional. I love that piece so much and it just... it's so moving. A friend of mine once listened to it and didn't feel much of anything aside from "ew, classical," and I was lowkey nervous that y'all'd have the same reaction, so I'm glad that's not the case for everyone. Thanks for the reassurance (:
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Rainbow
#CDC0DD
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Starchaser
barbie complex
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Post by Starchaser on Jan 31, 2021 17:02:21 GMT -5
mossecho I understand all that. No pressure, like I said, but if you want to reply than be my guest.
My music taste is very hard to define. It's pretty much just anything I happen to like, which is rather all over the place. I don't really care for country much, but that's about it. I wouldn't say I'm partial to any genres, unless "songs that make me feel larger than life on a visceral level" is counted as a genre. Yes, when I say I listen to a song on repeat I really mean it. As in, only that song for hours in a day, for weeks to months.
Honestly, I didn't expect anyone had, I was just kinda explaining my thought process about them. Or, rather, excusing the fact that they aren't that great on the off chance anyone decided to listen to them.
I've listened to Experience before and was not over it yet. Anyways, that'd definitely not the case for me. I love classical music. I have an entire playlist of sad classical music I listen to that got me through my first semester of college. I find it's very good essay writing music, personally. Never disrespect classical music in my house.
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Post by mossecho on Feb 1, 2021 16:36:04 GMT -5
Starchaser: Honestly I don't even know what I like about different songs that have somehow ended up saved on my Spotify. I just... do. I do tend more towards pop and hip-hop (specifically rap), but that's just because I hear those songs more so I get exposed to more stuff that I like. That said, there are some genres I am sure I do not like (looking at you, heavy metal).
Also I have a tendency not to listen to the lyrics of a song which has ended up with me liking songs that turn out to be really dirty and I don't find out until I've already played that song on repeat way too much and become attached to it (and then I create mega run-on sentences about it, heheh)
I don't listen to a lot of classical music recreationally, but it does make incredible study music. That said, I have listened to more stuff by Angèle Dubeau outside of just studying and her stuff is so moving and... oh I love it so much. So yeah, while I don't naturally gravitate towards classical music, it is still great and it got me through many essays last quarter.
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