|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 21, 2020 19:23:44 GMT -5
in relation to my thornclaw thread concerning thunderclan nepotism for firestar's kin
whenever we discuss future leaders or deputies, people always say ivypool and lionblaze...and whenever someone brings up a background character, people argue "they have no personality" or "they're not leadership material" or "they're too random."
well, this wouldn't be a problem if the writers themselves didn't partake in the nepotsim and favoritism. it sucks that the only "qualified cats" are the cats somehow related to firestar and his kin in anyway. if they're related to his kin in any way, they get more background scenes, more personality lines/dialouge, more apprentices to train, and more relevence.
if a cat isn't related to firestar's kin in any way, then they will not get those things and therefore people will be quick to claim they're not "qualified" even though they've had a few apprentices. such as rosepetal for example. she had a ton of apprentices and yet people were quick to shut down the idea of her being deputy because "she doesn't act like a leader." but let's face it. it was because she's not firestar kin and therefore didn't get enough scenes to show off how qualified she actually is.
a cat can be made deputy if they have had a LEAST 1 apprentice. if the leader knows they have potential to build leadership abilities and have had 1 apprentice prior, they are qualified. literally any cat who has had an apprentice is technically qualified to become deputy. people dismiss a cat's potential just because the writers fail to give other cats scenes and personlities to make the readers see they have potential as well.
in every post about who should be deputy or leader, i have said the same argument: we shouldnt have to pick from only firestar kin or former protagonists, we should be able to see background cats and say they have the potential to be leaders if given the role. it's just so unfair how many cats get thrown away because of nepotism and favoritism.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 19:37:10 GMT -5
Aren't these forums meant to be discussing topics in this series? If someone wants to discuss one topic, then they should be able to, it's not like her posts are flooding the boards, or keeping anyone else from posting.
As for the main post, I wish new family lines would get attention outside of the same three, but it started with Tiger and Fire, and will probably end with Tiger and Fire.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 19:46:49 GMT -5
Aren't these forums meant to be discussing topics in this series? If someone wants to discuss one topic, then they should be able to, it's not like her posts are flooding the boards, or keeping anyone else from posting. I'm not even saying that? I'm just saying it feels very repetitive because I see a lot of talk about bloodlines and nepotism from the OP most of the time. Even in the Stormcloud Mousewhisker thread the topic shifted straight over to complaining about how inbred Lionblaze's family is and how Firekin gets everything when we don't even know if that's the case just because Flipclaw and Flywhisker moved closer to each other even though oh idk... kin can support eachother? I get the nepotism complaint because now we have canon acknowledging it but going on about it once a week or every other day in forums isn't gonna do anything in canon. Bring it up in email. After seeing threads and topics of a certain thing multiple times you run out of things to say on it. Ohh okay, I'm sorry for misunderstanding. But I still feel she has a right to say whatever she wants as long as it isn't rude to anyone or breaking forum rules.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Jul 21, 2020 19:54:56 GMT -5
Plenty of non-Firestar related cats have personality, it's just that most of them are not great personalities for leadership. We have paranoid xenophobes Thornclaw and Blossomfall, sell-out Bumblestripe, flip flop Twigbranch, and possessive Finleap to name the ones who have a personality. All very fun characters in their own right who get plenty of time of relevance(an entire series in Twigbranch's case) and consistent characterization, a rather large hole in the complaint that they don't get any personality or relevance.
And besides, I have few doubts in my mind that if any non-Firestar kin was made leader, there'd be an instant and vicious turn against them. I have my suspicions that it's contrarianism more than anything else driving that push, and just like how Skyclan used to be the contrarian favorite until they became important and suddenly they were hated, I expect likewise if any background character became leader.
|
|
Lesbian
Owl
always writing, never finishing
|
Post by Owl on Jul 21, 2020 19:58:50 GMT -5
i think cherryfall and molewhisker were a missed opportunity when it comes to prospective leaders. they got a little bit of focus as cute troublemakers near the end of oots, with their run-in with the fox and sol, then molewhisker and cherryfall accompany alderpaw on his quest, and...they kind of disappear after that. like, this duo kept popping up! utilize them! if anyone on the editing team is hoping for a strong young cat outside of firestar's family tree to become leader, these two are right there. they might not have displayed the strongest leadership qualities, but after parsing through the warriors wiki, i noticed both of them have had their own brave little moments. it wouldn't have taken much to develop them further.
like i said though, missed opportunity. cherry/mole have fallen into the background for quite some time. it's too bad, i would have liked to see them and alder/spark as a cute quartet of pals.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Jul 21, 2020 20:02:11 GMT -5
i think cherryfall and molewhisker were a missed opportunity when it comes to prospective leaders. they got a little bit of focus as cute troublemakers near the end of oots, with their run-in with the fox and sol, then molewhisker and cherryfall accompany alderpaw on his quest, and...they kind of disappear after that. like, this duo kept popping up! utilize them! if anyone on the editing team is hoping for a strong young cat outside of firestar's family tree to become leader, these two are right there. they might not have displayed the strongest leadership qualities, but after parsing through the warriors wiki, i noticed both of them have had their own brave little moments. it wouldn't have taken much to develop them further. like i said though, missed opportunity. cherry/mole have fallen into the background for quite some time. it's too bad, i would have liked to see them and alder/spark as a cute quartet of pals. On the one hand, this would have been interesting. On the other hand, consider how much people already criticize AVOS for the pointlesness of the Alderheart perspective. I shudder to think of what that would be like if we had to jam in Molewhisker and Cherryfall scenes into Alderheart's chapters too.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 21, 2020 20:09:24 GMT -5
I personally don't mind certain cats with potential being given opportunities to grow in deputy positions and eventually leadership. My personal first choice will always be Ivypool, but I do like other options like Lilyheart, Molewhisker, and Bristlefrost. Foxleap, Toadstep, Icecloud, and Hazeltail were such good opportunities as well, that just went right by. The problem with the nepotism thing is that Firestar's genes are so woven into the modern clans, it's kinda hard to completely avoid them. I feel like as long as they're not inter-family related, directly from the previous cat, it shouldn't be too bad.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 20:11:10 GMT -5
i think cherryfall and molewhisker were a missed opportunity when it comes to prospective leaders. they got a little bit of focus as cute troublemakers near the end of oots, with their run-in with the fox and sol, then molewhisker and cherryfall accompany alderpaw on his quest, and...they kind of disappear after that. like, this duo kept popping up! utilize them! if anyone on the editing team is hoping for a strong young cat outside of firestar's family tree to become leader, these two are right there. they might not have displayed the strongest leadership qualities, but after parsing through the warriors wiki, i noticed both of them have had their own brave little moments. it wouldn't have taken much to develop them further. like i said though, missed opportunity. cherry/mole have fallen into the background for quite some time. it's too bad, i would have liked to see them and alder/spark as a cute quartet of pals. I think Molewhisker would be a fantastic choice, he seems really level-headed and willing to comprompise. Cherryfall on the other hand, she seemed a bit immature and reckless in AVOS, but she might have grown sense then. But I agree that they were a huge missed opportunity.
|
|
Lesbian
Owl
always writing, never finishing
|
Post by Owl on Jul 21, 2020 20:24:00 GMT -5
i think cherryfall and molewhisker were a missed opportunity when it comes to prospective leaders. they got a little bit of focus as cute troublemakers near the end of oots, with their run-in with the fox and sol, then molewhisker and cherryfall accompany alderpaw on his quest, and...they kind of disappear after that. like, this duo kept popping up! utilize them! if anyone on the editing team is hoping for a strong young cat outside of firestar's family tree to become leader, these two are right there. they might not have displayed the strongest leadership qualities, but after parsing through the warriors wiki, i noticed both of them have had their own brave little moments. it wouldn't have taken much to develop them further. like i said though, missed opportunity. cherry/mole have fallen into the background for quite some time. it's too bad, i would have liked to see them and alder/spark as a cute quartet of pals. On the one hand, this would have been interesting. On the other hand, consider how much people already criticize AVOS for the pointlesness of the Alderheart perspective. I shudder to think of what that would be like if we had to jam in Molewhisker and Cherryfall scenes into Alderheart's chapters too. i think having more friends within thunderclan might have breathed some life into alderheart's chapters, especially if cherryfall or molewhisker were given some cool sidequests and were allowed to be developed further. this might beg the question of why we're following alderheart's point of view in this hypothetical universe and not the more intriguing cherryfall or molewhisker, but it wouldn't be the first time a side character was "more interesting" than the protagonist in warriors (and fiction books in general). i do think alderheart's character and arc was hurt badly in the editor's choice to very obviously wing it when it came to writing the second half of avos.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 20:26:40 GMT -5
I will only accept Flipstar at this point.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 20:48:44 GMT -5
to be honest as long as theyve had an apprentice and are old enough i dont mind a character with little personality becoming deputy and then getting development.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 20:50:02 GMT -5
to be honest as long as theyve had an apprentice and are old enough i dont mind a character with little personality becoming deputy and then getting development. 1000000% agreed
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on Jul 21, 2020 20:52:58 GMT -5
I will only accept Flipstar at this point. Flipstar 2020
|
|
|
Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 21, 2020 21:02:53 GMT -5
to be honest as long as theyve had an apprentice and are old enough i dont mind a character with little personality becoming deputy and then getting development. ^ a leader doesnt have to have a particularly strong personality in the readers' eyes. only if that leader is somehow important to the protagonist's own journey. s/he can fade into more or less another side character who is only relevant when his/her authority are necessary in the plot. firestar was more or less a background character for most of PO3 and OOTS. heather and hailstar did not feature a prominent role in TR and CP. the erins could very well pick a less developed character like molewhisker to be deputy and spend time fleshing him out afterwards, which narratively would make sense. his characterization wasn't very relevant previously but his deputyship would put him in a new spotlight so that he would naturally become more fleshed out.
|
|
|
Post by Uмвяᴀ on Jul 21, 2020 21:23:03 GMT -5
Nepotism isn't really a new thing. Sunstar and Bluestar chose their former apprentices as deputies a while back and Firestar chose his best friend. And the reason is usually main character syndrome. Firestar was Bluestar's apprentice so that they could characterize Bluestar through their interactions. Bramblestar was Firestar's apprentice so that Fire could overcome his Tigerbias. Future main characters were related to Firestar so that they could keep Brambleclaw, Squirrelflight, and Leafpool in the story, etc. I always saw it as main characters becoming deputy because they're the main characters, so of course the writers want to keep them in the story.
That said, I wouldn't mind new people becoming deputy because it gives the writers more freedom. They would have the freedom to characterize the new characters any way they want to fit the plot instead of being restricted to the characters that were already established for their plots to work.
|
|
|
Post by Hollyfall on Jul 21, 2020 21:49:06 GMT -5
I will only accept Flipstar at this point. Flipstar 2020 He'll make ThunderClan great again
|
|
|
Post by Brindlefern on Jul 22, 2020 0:31:37 GMT -5
I really don't care about nepotism as long as the leader and deputy characters are tolerable to read on, personality or not. They can be developed after they become leader/deputy.
|
|
|
Post by wftl1980 on Jul 22, 2020 2:43:16 GMT -5
Thornclaw’s father was deputy, and he’s always been assertive and ambitious; it’s not surprising that he considers himself overlooked for positions of responsibility. Maybe that was his reason for being in the dark forest? The always overshadowed sibling of the brave, wounded Brightheart, medicine cat Cinderpelt, and everyone’s friend Brackenfur?
Who’s a solid, reliable cat; not related to Firestar, who’s had an apprentice? Personally, I rate Lilyheart. Thornclaw can’t sook too hard if his niece becomes deputy.
|
|
|
Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 22, 2020 9:51:28 GMT -5
wftl1980: yeah but he's old. he really has no right to deputyship at this point for that alone. deputies become the next leader, so you dont want to choose someone who should be in the elder's den in two seasons. 'cause if the current leader dies, then you end up with Thornstar, the 80 yro grandpa who will die of old age nine times.
|
|
|
Post by wftl1980 on Jul 22, 2020 17:02:48 GMT -5
wftl1980: yeah but he's old. he really has no right to deputyship at this point for that alone. deputies become the next leader, so you dont want to choose someone who should be in the elder's den in two seasons. 'cause if the current leader dies, then you end up with Thornstar, the 80 yro grandpa who will die of old age nine times. I agree. That’s possibly not how he sees it, though.
|
|
Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
|
Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jul 22, 2020 19:33:23 GMT -5
I will only accept Flipstar at this point. Flipstar 2020 Also Flipstar is the best name!
|
|