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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 11:12:36 GMT -5
They seem to be two of the most beloved characters in the series, who do you like more? Also, Tallstar beat Bluestar in a fight, and he went after Brokenstar, do you think he could also take on Crookedstar, or will Crookedstar come out on top, and be the best fighter out of the original TPB's leaders?
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 14, 2020 11:18:09 GMT -5
Crookedstar is very, very amoral at times. Trying to kick out Windclan for zero good reasoning is always going to leave a nasty taste in the mouth, as is ceding land to Brokenstar. I always found him to be a bit of a politician, the type who speaks nicely before stabbing people in the back whenever it is convenient for him.
That being said, he's said to be pretty big while Tallstar never really had any good fights to his name. He beat Bluefur once, but she was never shown to be strong or anything like that. I guess I favor Crookedstar if only because size matters. If Tallstar had any really good fights under his belt that'd be something, but he really doesn't.
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Post by highprince on Jul 14, 2020 11:26:15 GMT -5
Tallstar. He’s always been one of my favorites and, unlike Crookedstar, he tends to put morals over his clan. His decision to switch deputies is the biggest stain on him, but he was literally dying and thought it would be the best decision. I remember being sad as a kid that he never had kits and there would be no Tallstar descendants, but I do love TallJake now.
Though it’s close. I really like Crookedstar, too. I love his SE and story, and the way he puts RiverClan above all else gives him this moral gray area that I really like in a character.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jul 15, 2020 11:56:35 GMT -5
Crookedstar is the best
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 12:00:35 GMT -5
I'm surprised that Crookedstar is getting so many votes as the fight winner. This is on me, but I can't remember many fights he's been in, except for the one against Bluepaw and Snowpaw, where he loses, but it was two against one, so that's not a fair fight, and the fight against the rats with Hailstar. Tallstar on the other hand...he nearly beat Shrewclaw to death, he defeated Bluestar, and he took on Brokentail in Yellowfang's Secret. However, this all happened when he was Talltail (Tallpaw with the Shrewclaw thing), and then he seemed to have lost his fighting ability after he became a leader, so the poll is probably accurate XD
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Post by Cloverƒall on Jul 16, 2020 9:57:10 GMT -5
Crookedstar. I never read Tallstar's Revenge.
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Post by halogen on Jul 18, 2020 11:01:14 GMT -5
Well, to be fair to Crookedstar concerning the WindClan thing, Silverstream does describe his reasoning being that the Clan is starving with the two leg stuff, but she is obviously likely to be biased there. The narrative in that book/Firestar honestly seems to be biased towards RiverClan, assuming RiverClan has a good reason for doing what they are doing before he knows any details or has any evidence, while assuming ShadowClan, which is doing the exact same thing is just doing it because they are ShadowClan and they are bad, no explanation needed.
Concerning Bluestar's fighting quality and how much it means that Tallstar beat her, she does seem pretty impressive in Into the Wild, where she defeats a ShadowClan warrior easily despite being so injured from the rat attack that she could barely walk (and having to have just rushed through a normally day-long journey despite those injuries to get back in time), and when she is training Firepaw, Firepaw notes that she's even more clever than Yellowfang in how she fights, and while Firepaw was an apprentice, she's able to beat him a lot at a time where Firestar's fully capable of taking on most warriors.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 18, 2020 14:22:15 GMT -5
Well, to be fair to Crookedstar concerning the WindClan thing, Silverstream does describe his reasoning being that the Clan is starving with the two leg stuff, but she is obviously likely to be biased there. The narrative in that book/Firestar honestly seems to be biased towards RiverClan, assuming RiverClan has a good reason for doing what they are doing before he knows any details or has any evidence, while assuming ShadowClan, which is doing the exact same thing is just doing it because they are ShadowClan and they are bad, no explanation needed. Concerning Bluestar's fighting quality and how much it means that Tallstar beat her, she does seem pretty impressive in Into the Wild, where she defeats a ShadowClan warrior easily despite being so injured from the rat attack that she could barely walk (and having to have just rushed through a normally day-long journey despite those injuries to get back in time), and when she is training Firepaw, Firepaw notes that she's even more clever than Yellowfang in how she fights, and while Firepaw was an apprentice, she's able to beat him a lot at a time where Firestar's fully capable of taking on most warriors. Bluestar was also twice Firepaw's size during those spars though and Firepaw's only point of reference for Yellowfang at that point was her while starving and sickly.
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Post by halogen on Jul 18, 2020 16:07:37 GMT -5
Well, to be fair to Crookedstar concerning the WindClan thing, Silverstream does describe his reasoning being that the Clan is starving with the two leg stuff, but she is obviously likely to be biased there. The narrative in that book/Firestar honestly seems to be biased towards RiverClan, assuming RiverClan has a good reason for doing what they are doing before he knows any details or has any evidence, while assuming ShadowClan, which is doing the exact same thing is just doing it because they are ShadowClan and they are bad, no explanation needed. Concerning Bluestar's fighting quality and how much it means that Tallstar beat her, she does seem pretty impressive in Into the Wild, where she defeats a ShadowClan warrior easily despite being so injured from the rat attack that she could barely walk (and having to have just rushed through a normally day-long journey despite those injuries to get back in time), and when she is training Firepaw, Firepaw notes that she's even more clever than Yellowfang in how she fights, and while Firepaw was an apprentice, she's able to beat him a lot at a time where Firestar's fully capable of taking on most warriors. Bluestar was also twice Firepaw's size during those spars though and Firepaw's only point of reference for Yellowfang at that point was her while starving and sickly. Those spars still happened after Firestar had shown himself to be very capable against other warriors (ShadowClan cats during the battle against them), not to mention Longtail before he even started training. And he was saying Bluestar was even more clever than Yellowfang, not just that she was fighting better (which would be not that hard due to the condition Yellowfang was in). And that still doesn't address her performance during the ShadowClan battle in Into the Wild, which was genuinely impressive given her severe injuries and exhaustion. And besides Tallstar, I can only remember her losing to Crookedpaw and Tigerstar, both cases where she was clearly impaired emotionally by feeling betrayed by them, and the former when she was just an apprentice and hadn't developed her full fighting skills yet while Crookedpaw essentially had double training with Mapleshade and was really a full-grown warrior. So I do think Tallstar beating Bluestar counts for something.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 18, 2020 17:52:56 GMT -5
Bluestar was also twice Firepaw's size during those spars though and Firepaw's only point of reference for Yellowfang at that point was her while starving and sickly. Those spars still happened after Firestar had shown himself to be very capable against other warriors (ShadowClan cats during the battle against them), not to mention Longtail before he even started training. And he was saying Bluestar was even more clever than Yellowfang, not just that she was fighting better (which would be not that hard due to the condition Yellowfang was in). And that still doesn't address her performance during the ShadowClan battle in Into the Wild, which was genuinely impressive given her severe injuries and exhaustion. And besides Tallstar, I can only remember her losing to Crookedpaw and Tigerstar, both cases where she was clearly impaired emotionally by feeling betrayed by them, and the former when she was just an apprentice and hadn't developed her full fighting skills yet while Crookedpaw essentially had double training with Mapleshade and was really a full-grown warrior. So I do think Tallstar beating Bluestar counts for something. Firepaw had fought Shadowclan cats at that point, but not in pitched battle. The raid on the camp was just that, a raid, that was pretty clearly seeing the Shadowclan cats not sticking it out but just going for what they could and quickly retreating. He did manage to fight against Longtail, but Longtail was also winning that fight until the collar broke. The statement of Bluestar's cleverness relevant to Yellowfang's is relying only on a single fight while Yellowfang was not at her best, Firepaw does not have the ability to judge Yellowfang by any standards other than the ones he'd fought her under. Cleverness is certainly affected by physical condition too, as more complex maneuvers require more stamina and strength and so on. The fight while injured was good, there is that. Bluestar hasn't lost often, it's true, but she hasn't won that often either. Tallstar beating her shows he's a cut above the pack, but then as mentioned above so is Crookedstar so it's not enough to definitively put him so high.
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Jul 18, 2020 17:55:03 GMT -5
I honestly think that Tallstar and Crookedstar are tied in terms of fighting.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 19:26:34 GMT -5
Tallstar was a good cat to firestar, he is the only windclan cat i enjoyed reading about. Tallstar has earned a vote!
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