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Post by epicstyle on Apr 18, 2020 17:32:02 GMT -5
I'd like to preface this post by saying I am personally not a huge fan of the journey books, and I know a lot of people aren't. I feel like they're kinda boring and repetitive. But one thing several journey stories gave us were fleshed-out characters from the other clans. In TNP and The First Apprentice, we had at least one important character from each clan, which was nice for a change. It helped give some of the other clans relevance besides Thunderclan (Mainly WindClan with Crowfeather in TNP, he's remained a semi-important character to this day). I kinda wish that in TAQ, some cats from WindClan and RiverClan to accompany Alderpaw on his quest instead of four other TC cats, although I guess that kinda defeats the purpose of a secret quest. TBC spoilers: I wish they could have done more with the resistance against Bramblestar, since they had cats from all the clans involved. I doubt they'll have any purpose for the resistance now that the impostor has been defeated, unfortunately.
IDK I just really want WindClan and RiverClan to get some more attention, I'm sure most of you share that sentiment. The writers have done a good job of including ShadowClan and SkyClan lately, but it would be nice to have all five involved.
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Post by Fireleap on Apr 18, 2020 17:46:57 GMT -5
I'd rather get a WindClan and RiverClan POV. I'm not a fan of main series journey books and they can just drag on forever with no real point to them. The only journey books I can think of that actually advanced the plot are TAQ, TST, and Dawn. Maybe Midnight and Moonrise, but those books could've easily been shortened and/or combined.
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 18, 2020 18:26:28 GMT -5
If they never had a journey book again it'd be fantastic. They are always monstrous time killers and the embodiment of filler. Only the beaver one was any good, and even then only just barely for the novelty of beavers.
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Post by Redstorm on Apr 18, 2020 20:48:20 GMT -5
I did some research on a theory: apparently the cats started from a forest (unsure which one) , went to the mountains, then lake, then started going into the forest in TPB era then back to lake again. Or something like that, Rock was talking about it. Who knows, could be a cycle again with them having to leave the lake to go back to the mountain again.
Edit: no confirmed start at forest, but did seem to start at mountains. Here's my old thread
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 18, 2020 20:57:01 GMT -5
Redstormi'm pretty sure it started at the lake, then the mountains, and then the forest. some of them stayed at the mountain for the tribe. the forest cats moved back to the lake where their ancestors started.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 21:29:56 GMT -5
WC travel/journey books are so tedious. Like others have said it's just filler. Same thing happens every time. Chased by dogs? Yep. Wind up in a Twolegplace? Yea. Get chased by Twolegs? Check. More dogs? For sure. Dawn had to be the worst one lol, and Starlight when they were exploring the new territory.
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Post by Redstorm on Apr 19, 2020 11:48:37 GMT -5
Redstormi'm pretty sure it started at the lake, then the mountains, and then the forest. some of them stayed at the mountain for the tribe. the forest cats moved back to the lake where their ancestors started. Here's my old post I found wcrpforums.com/thread/63706/lake-ancients-mountains-cycle-theoryApparently rock came from the mountains and he's a lot older than all other cats introduced. And it seems him and midnight might have discovered the lake territories. So I think there was a mountains phase before lake.
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Lesbian
TigerLily
Thinks too much about Warriors
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Post by TigerLily on Apr 19, 2020 12:17:41 GMT -5
Redstorm i'm pretty sure it started at the lake, then the mountains, and then the forest. some of them stayed at the mountain for the tribe. the forest cats moved back to the lake where their ancestors started. Here's my old post I found wcrpforums.com/thread/63706/lake-ancients-mountains-cycle-theoryApparently rock came from the mountains and he's a lot older than all other cats introduced. And it seems him and midnight might have discovered the lake territories. So I think there was a mountains phase before lake. If only this were true and one day we could have books in the old forest territory... I hate the lake lol
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Post by Jaysnow on Apr 19, 2020 16:31:44 GMT -5
Please no. They usually bore me to tears.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Apr 19, 2020 17:30:16 GMT -5
Redstorm i'm pretty sure it started at the lake, then the mountains, and then the forest. some of them stayed at the mountain for the tribe. the forest cats moved back to the lake where their ancestors started. Here's my old post I found wcrpforums.com/thread/63706/lake-ancients-mountains-cycle-theoryApparently rock came from the mountains and he's a lot older than all other cats introduced. And it seems him and midnight might have discovered the lake territories. So I think there was a mountains phase before lake. I made a thread about this like six months ago. In Sign of the Moon, Rock states that he was a living cat in the Mountains, and after he died, his descendants left the Mountains and settled at the Lake. A few generations after that, Jay's Wing convinces the Lake cats to move back to the Mountains. (I would have the actual quote, but my books are still at my house and I'm quarantined at my parents' house whoop) We know from later books that the second group of Mountain cats split and half of them moved to the Forest to become the Clans, and many, many generations later, the Clans leave the Forest and settle at the Lake. This makes the following sequence of events: 1. A group of cats is living in the Mountains. 2. Said group leaves the Mountains and settles at the Lake. 3. The Lake settlers go back to the Mountains. 4. The group splits and half stay in the Mountains as the Tribe, and the other settle in the Forest as the Clans. 5. The Clans move through the mountains and settle at the Lake.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Apr 19, 2020 18:06:35 GMT -5
My opinion is cmoplicated, but here it is.
To preface, I hate journeys. I'm fine with books that contain a journey if there is another purpose to the story, but journey for the sake of journey, I tend to hate. (Which is why I dislike both TNP and all of Seekers)
Sign of the Moon contains my favorite journey. The journey in this case is very short, and the purpose of the story is not to show the travels of the cats, but rather for some lore, which I love-- lore is great. Jayfeather has some pretty solid scenes in the Mountains which couldn't have happened in the Lake setting, and I did appreciate the change of scenery without the forcing in of random travel woes like getting chased by dogs or exploring a confusing Twolegplace. (The one scene where Dovewing has a panic attack was also done very well).
By contrast, Sunrise is my least-favorite. Sunrise as a whole is one of my favorite books, but only the second half of it is any good. The first half contains a journey PURELY for journey's sake, with all the hellish bells and whistles attached. It doesn't even affect the rest of the book. We could have had a border patrol run into Sol on the outskirts of the territory halfway through the book and had the first half devoted to the three flipping out and had a much better book.
Most of the other journey-containing books fall somewhere in between. In the main series, these books are Fire and Ice, Midnight, Moonrise, Dawn, Starlight, Outcast, Sunrise, The Fourth Apprentice, Sign of the Moon, (skipping DotC 'cause I haven't read it), The Apprentice's Quest, and (kinda) The Raging Storm. They range from "good use of journey to tell the overall story and have a good effect on the characters and overall is necessary" to "hey, wouldn't it be fun to have the characters travel? Let's do that! Screw sense!"
In addition, whether the journey is necessary or not isn't the only factor. Fire and Ice has a journey that is necessary, but is nearly entirely skipped over and lasts like a chapter and a half, making it a bad use of journey because it's too short. By contrast, Sunrise's entirely unnecessary journey lasts half the book. On the other side of the coin (good journeys), we have Sign of the Moon and The Fourth Apprentice, both necessary and of vastly different lengths.
Because of all this, I can't definitively say that all journey books are good or all are bad. Like I said, I love Sunrise despite its terrible use of travel. Sign of the Moon is one of my least favorite Power of the Stars books even though its journey was done quite well. TNP bores me despite the journeys being entirely necessary and focal to the plot. Fire and Ice needed more journey. There's just far, far too many factors to say "all journey books are boring/bad/good/fun/whatever".
So actually, I would like to see a journey in The Broken Code. Just one though, no need to overdo it. I'd be curious to see how it was handled and what the characters learn from the experience.
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Post by Card against Humanity on Apr 19, 2020 18:41:47 GMT -5
I hate journey books, they’re so tedious and boring. If I wanted to read about a bunch of animals travelling from point A to B, i’d just reread Watership Down again
the only good journeys were the fire and ice one bc it was the first and it hadn’t been done to death yet, and the beaver one bc beavers. the sun trail was a decent book but only bc of what happened after the journey
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