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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 21:28:13 GMT -5
I'm not exactly sure the impostor is Ashfur, I know a lot of signs point to him, and there's no other cat that it could possibly be, and if it were another cat, then it'd be pretty lame. But I just can't fully say it's him, without it being 100% confirmed.
If anyone has a problem with that, then I'm sorry, it's just how I feel.
Anyway, I agree with Redstorm's post, that the impostor isn't working alone, but who do you think could be helping him?
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 8, 2020 21:30:33 GMT -5
The Dark Forest features prominently, it may be Thistleclaw or Mapleshade if the faker has contacts there. But Mapleshade was already nearly dead back before, so I doubt it's her. It's also possible that Ashfur twisted Spiresight's arm, perhaps, using his ability to control spirits(who knows how reliable he is though).
The Scourge fan in me wants to say it's Scourge purely for the meme, but it wouldn't make much sense.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 8, 2020 21:34:29 GMT -5
ashfur only should care about hurting one or two cats: squirrelflight and brambleclaw/star. why would he take down all the clans just to do it? same with thistleclaw: he would only hate bluestar, right? none of the other clans hurt him either. who is a cat that thinks all the clans hurt them? sol? mapleshade only dealt with riverclan and thunderclan, so thats only 2.
word choice matters. why would the imposter say "all the clans" "hurt" him?
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Lesbian
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Part-time lurker.
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Post by sorethroat on Apr 8, 2020 21:36:34 GMT -5
It was obviously Shrewpaw with blue eye contacts.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 21:36:37 GMT -5
The Dark Forest features prominently, it may be Thistleclaw or Mapleshade if the faker has contacts there. But Mapleshade was already nearly dead back before, so I doubt it's her. It's also possible that Ashfur twisted Spiresight's arm, perhaps, using his ability to control spirits(who knows how reliable he is though). The Scourge fan in me wants to say it's Scourge purely for the meme, but it wouldn't make much sense. If it's Mapleshade...oh dear, that would be the WORST possible thing. I'd rather have one of the rats from Firestar's Quest than her. However, knowing these books, I wouldn't be surprised if she is involved somehow. Thistleclaw I could see, at least from the hating code-breaker's standpoint, I know that the impostor doesn't really hate code-breakers, he was just doing that to cause trouble, while breaking the code himself, and being choosy with who he chose to name. However, Thistleclaw isn't above breaking the code, like with Tiny in Bluestar's Prophecy, and he probably feels cheated, that Bluestar got to be deputy, when she broke the code in one of the worst ways, at least in the eyes of the clans. Scourge would be pretty amusing to be involved
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 21:38:48 GMT -5
ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆That's a really good point! Maybe it's Onestar, he's a petty little biscuit who hates everyone. I'm just kidding. sorethroatROFL
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 8, 2020 21:44:16 GMT -5
I can see arguing that the impostor isn't working alone, but literally no one other than Ashfur is controversial, has blue eyes, and is in love with Squirrelflight. Part of him thought taking over Bramble's body would make her love him (that's clear).
As for all the clans, we could argue he MAY have something against Windclan (CrowLeaf) and Shadowclan (if we count Tigerstar killing his mom). And Hawkfrost came from Riverclan. Those are weak connections, but they are there.
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 8, 2020 21:45:34 GMT -5
The imposter clearly isn't working alone, that much is now very clear. But if you're having your doubts about Ashfur, then who do you think it is? The only other villains who have blue eyes are Darktail and Hawkfrost, who we are able to immediately eliminate as suspects. And no other villain has had a personal connection to Squirrelflight except for Ashfur.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 8, 2020 21:49:46 GMT -5
The Dark Forest features prominently, it may be Thistleclaw or Mapleshade if the faker has contacts there. But Mapleshade was already nearly dead back before, so I doubt it's her. It's also possible that Ashfur twisted Spiresight's arm, perhaps, using his ability to control spirits(who knows how reliable he is though). The Scourge fan in me wants to say it's Scourge purely for the meme, but it wouldn't make much sense. If it's Mapleshade...oh dear, that would be the WORST possible thing. I'd rather have one of the rats from Firestar's Quest than her. However, knowing these books, I wouldn't be surprised if she is involved somehow. Thistleclaw I could see, at least from the hating code-breaker's standpoint, I know that the impostor doesn't really hate code-breakers, he was just doing that to cause trouble, while breaking the code himself, and being choosy with who he chose to name. However, Thistleclaw isn't above breaking the code, like with Tiny in Bluestar's Prophecy, and he probably feels cheated, that Bluestar got to be deputy, when she broke the code in one of the worst ways, at least in the eyes of the clans. Scourge would be pretty amusing to be involved Mapleshade is more likely than Thistleclaw (who is Ashfur's grandfather, interestingly enough). Thistleclaw doesn't have enough of a desire for revenge against the clans. As you stated, his only grudge is against Bluestar, but he was loyal to the clans and has never seemed like he'd want to see them fall apart for giggles.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 21:50:03 GMT -5
The imposter clearly isn't working alone, that much is now very clear. But if you're having your doubts about Ashfur, then who do you think it is? The only other villains who have blue eyes are Darktail and Hawkfrost, who we are able to immediately eliminate as suspects. And no other villain has had a personal connection to Squirrelflight except for Ashfur. I honestly don't know, like I think the impostor is probably Ashfur, but I'm still having my doubts.
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 8, 2020 21:52:43 GMT -5
The imposter clearly isn't working alone, that much is now very clear. But if you're having your doubts about Ashfur, then who do you think it is? The only other villains who have blue eyes are Darktail and Hawkfrost, who we are able to immediately eliminate as suspects. And no other villain has had a personal connection to Squirrelflight except for Ashfur. I honestly don't know, like I think the impostor is probably Ashfur, but I'm still having my doubts. Yeah, but why are you having your doubts?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 21:53:59 GMT -5
If it's Mapleshade...oh dear, that would be the WORST possible thing. I'd rather have one of the rats from Firestar's Quest than her. However, knowing these books, I wouldn't be surprised if she is involved somehow. Thistleclaw I could see, at least from the hating code-breaker's standpoint, I know that the impostor doesn't really hate code-breakers, he was just doing that to cause trouble, while breaking the code himself, and being choosy with who he chose to name. However, Thistleclaw isn't above breaking the code, like with Tiny in Bluestar's Prophecy, and he probably feels cheated, that Bluestar got to be deputy, when she broke the code in one of the worst ways, at least in the eyes of the clans. Scourge would be pretty amusing to be involved Mapleshade is more likely than Thistleclaw (who is Ashfur's grandfather, interestingly enough). Thistleclaw doesn't have enough of a desire for revenge against the clans. As you stated, his only grudge is against Bluestar, but he was loyal to the clans and has never seemed like he'd want to see them fall apart for giggles. Omg, I completely forgot that Whitestorm was Ashfur's father! Poor Whitestorm, his father and son are both...not very nice cats. At least he had Sorreltail and Ferncloud to make him proud, also, Rainwhisker and Sootfur, and possibly Graystripe? I just reallllly don't want it to be Mapleshade, I don't like her at all, she is overrated and overused.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 21:57:12 GMT -5
I honestly don't know, like I think the impostor is probably Ashfur, but I'm still having my doubts. Yeah, but why are you having your doubts? Honestly, I don't really know, I just don't feel like it's him, if that makes any sense? Then again, my gut feelings are NEVER right, so it probably is him..but I just can't make myself fully commit to the idea until it's been 100% confirmed, I know it's lame, but yeah.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 8, 2020 21:57:22 GMT -5
Mapleshade is more likely than Thistleclaw (who is Ashfur's grandfather, interestingly enough). Thistleclaw doesn't have enough of a desire for revenge against the clans. As you stated, his only grudge is against Bluestar, but he was loyal to the clans and has never seemed like he'd want to see them fall apart for giggles. Omg, I completely forgot that Whitestorm was Ashfur's father! Poor Whitestorm, his father and son are both...not very nice cats. At least he had Sorreltail and Ferncloud to make him proud, also, Rainwhisker and Sootfur, and possibly Graystripe? I just reallllly don't want it to be Mapleshade, I don't like her at all, she is overrated and overused. It means Dovewing and Ivypool are related to both Firestar and Bluestar. I somehow didn't realize Thistleclaw/Snowfur lineage was still going...very strong. Bluestar's direct descendants will die out, but Snowfur's shows no signs of stopping. I get that, but it has to be a cat who was dead/alive when Ashfur was alive to know about his feelings for Squirrelflight (DF and Starclan cats can view the living). That's the only way whoever is helping Ashfur would be aware of his feelings for Squirrel to use that as a way to manipulate him
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 8, 2020 21:58:28 GMT -5
The way he talks to the unknown person, he seems to be forcing/threatening them. I don't think the helper actually is evil and is not on Ashfur's side Which would go back to Spiresight
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 8, 2020 21:58:54 GMT -5
The way he talks to the unknown person, he seems to be forcing/threatening them. I don't think the helper actually is evil and is not on Ashfur's side This could tie into his whole "bend the spirits to my will" boast.
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Post by Redstorm on Apr 8, 2020 21:59:15 GMT -5
I think Ashfur is sorta a pawn in the game which is why I suspect shared bodies, with the other cat in Bramblestar dictating to Ashfur when they were arguing (along with abstract revenge stuff after Squirrelflight was assumed dead and Bramblestar was already in Dark Forest). I feel Sol for the combination of laziness and ambitious (quite rare!) tendencies that I detail more in my post. I don't want it to be Mapleshade but I have a feeling she's not done. She's notably the only leader who didn't get killed while also being the source of the recent evil in Dark Forest (corrupting Tigerstar, Thistleclaw, etc.) They might've made her survive back then to use her again.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 22:01:16 GMT -5
SpinestarThat's a REALLY good point. *Ottersplash*Wow, that's amazing, I never realized that either. I wonder if Reedwhisker does have kits we don't know about? With all the attention RiverClan gets, he could be EVERYONE'S father. True, who else knew?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 22:04:01 GMT -5
I think Ashfur is sorta a pawn in the game which is why I suspect shared bodies, with the other cat in Bramblestar dictating to Ashfur when they were arguing (along with abstract revenge stuff after Squirrelflight was assumed dead and Bramblestar was already in Dark Forest). I feel Sol for the laziness and ambitious tendencies that I detail more in my post. I don't want it to be Mapleshade but I have a feeling she's not done. She's notably the only leader who didn't get killed while also being the source of the recent evil in Dark Forest (corrupting Tigerstar, Thistleclaw, etc.) They might've made her survive back then to use her again. Yeah, I agree completely that I don't think Ashfur is in the driver's seat. I think Sol is a really good contender, but I really don't want him to be dead. I know this is VERY far-fetched, but I wonder if Smoke could be involved somehow? She raised Darktail to hate the clans, there's not much known about her, she could possibly believe in StarClan, from everything Onestar might have told her? I'm not saying she's involved, but I wonder if she could be?
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 8, 2020 22:04:17 GMT -5
ChickenIt's possible? I feel like he'd be a highly desirable tom with his lineage (mother leader, grandmother leader, grandfather deputy, uncle deputy, great uncle leader). Sol could have possibly known/noticed, Mapleshade could have been watching. If he's the one who is the pawn, then there's a limited number of cats who would have known because Squirrelflight never revealed what Ashfur did
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 22:06:37 GMT -5
Chicken It's possible? I feel like he'd be a highly desirable tom with his lineage (mother leader, grandmother leader, grandfather deputy, uncle deputy, great uncle leader). Sol could have possibly known/noticed, Mapleshade could have been watching. If he's the one who is the pawn, then there's a limited number of cats who would have known because Squirrelflight never revealed what Ashfur did Didn't they find out though eventually? Like, Dustpelt even spoke out against Ashfur after the truth was revealed, or was something else exposed? I don't remember.
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
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All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 8, 2020 22:07:59 GMT -5
The way he talks to the unknown person, he seems to be forcing/threatening them. I don't think the helper actually is evil and is not on Ashfur's side This is what I was saying earlier as well. Let's say his accomplice was Spiresight, he never gave off the vibe he was evil. The "bending cats to my will" line is a clear indication that if he is indeed involved somehow, it's not by his own choice. Either way, whoever he's working with doesn't really seem to be on the same page as him.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 9, 2020 9:00:24 GMT -5
I'm probably the only one that wouldn't have minded it being Mapleshade, considering her reason for going off the deep end was because of love. I would fit nicely, but at the same time, I still hope it's the voice that spoke with her when she came to the Dark Forest, that's helping Ashfur.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 10:13:19 GMT -5
I'm probably the only one that wouldn't have minded it being Mapleshade, considering her reason for going off the deep end was because of love. I would fit nicely, but at the same time, I still hope it's the voice that spoke with her when she came to the Dark Forest, that's helping Ashfur. I wonder if that voice was One Eye? Wasn't he said to have been like the first Dark Forest cat?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 10:22:56 GMT -5
This is 100% a joke, but imagine if it's Littlecloud.
He has blue eyes He's a tom He and Squirrelflight knew each other in Squirrelflight's Hope, he even said, "What's the point of having a Warrior Code, if cats are just going to keep breaking it?" Or something like that.
Imagine a villain named Littlecloud lol
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Post by Redstorm on Apr 9, 2020 11:28:02 GMT -5
I'm probably the only one that wouldn't have minded it being Mapleshade, considering her reason for going off the deep end was because of love. I would fit nicely, but at the same time, I still hope it's the voice that spoke with her when she came to the Dark Forest, that's helping Ashfur. I wonder if that voice was One Eye? Wasn't he said to have been like the first Dark Forest cat? Kate thinks One Eye possibly started the Dark Forest. I think it could definitely be a possibility he was the voice heard in the Dark Forest. Perhaps he's so old that his body is gone, but only the voice remains.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 11:31:56 GMT -5
I wonder if that voice was One Eye? Wasn't he said to have been like the first Dark Forest cat? Kate thinks One Eye possibly started the Dark Forest. I think it could definitely be a possibility he was the voice heard in the Dark Forest. Perhaps he's so old that his body is gone, but only the voice remains. That would be a really interesting thought
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Post by Mayflower on Apr 9, 2020 12:16:19 GMT -5
I'm probably the only one that wouldn't have minded it being Mapleshade, considering her reason for going off the deep end was because of love. I would fit nicely, but at the same time, I still hope it's the voice that spoke with her when she came to the Dark Forest, that's helping Ashfur. Nah, I agree! I do kinda want it to be Mapleshade helping Ashfur, too. If it's Ashfur, I just don't want it to be only him. People have mentioned she was already almost entirely faded by TLH, which means she would be gone by now, but we have to remember that cats only start to fade when they're being forgotten. Before the battle, she hadn't been mentioned in decades, and it had been years since anybody spoke her name, much less knew what happened to her. But now stories about the Dark Forest are very commonplace and referenced often. Mapleshade's name almost certainly came up, because she was one of the pivotal leaders of the Dark Forest. Her name being repeated and talked about concerning her part (especially since she personally went after Sandstorm, who then became an elder after the battle, and elders tell stories about the Clans' history. Alderheart said in AVOS that he and Sparkpelt often listened to Sandstorm's tales when they visited her as kits) could be enough to make Mapleshade's spirit stronger again. There are also the living trainees like Ivypool, Tigerheart, etc. who knew her name clearly and may still fear her. That could give fuel to strengthen her as well.
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Post by dragonfruit on Apr 9, 2020 12:32:05 GMT -5
I'm probably the only one that wouldn't have minded it being Mapleshade, considering her reason for going off the deep end was because of love. I would fit nicely, but at the same time, I still hope it's the voice that spoke with her when she came to the Dark Forest, that's helping Ashfur. Nah, I agree! I do kinda want it to be Mapleshade helping Ashfur, too. If it's Ashfur, I just don't want it to be only him. People have mentioned she was already almost entirely faded by TLH, which means she would be gone by now, but we have to remember that cats only start to fade when they're being forgotten. Before the battle, she hadn't been mentioned in decades, and it had been years since anybody spoke her name, much less knew what happened to her. But now stories about the Dark Forest are very commonplace and referenced often. Mapleshade's name almost certainly came up, because she was one of the pivotal leaders of the Dark Forest. Her name being repeated and talked about concerning her part (especially since she personally went after Sandstorm, who then became an elder after the battle, and elders tell stories about the Clans' history. Alderheart said in AVOS that he and Sparkpelt often listened to Sandstorm's tales when they visited her as kits) could be enough to make Mapleshade's spirit stronger again. There are also the living trainees like Ivypool, Tigerheart, etc. who knew her name clearly and may still fear her. That could give fuel to strengthen her as well. Pretty sure the founding leaders haven't entirely faded yet either, I think they were around a few books back, ( but that could just be their legacy living on within the clans,) but if they're still around, there's a good chance Mapleshade is too. I doubt the Erins would kill her off now with the opportunity to bring her back - Better her working with BrambleFake than Thistleclaw/Sol. On an unrelated note, I'm praying that Spiresight isn't working with Ashfur. He was a decent character and it completely goes against his character.
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