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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 17:31:56 GMT -5
Do you think tunneling should have been banned?
Personally, I don't think so, I understand that it's dangerous, but so is being just a regular warrior. I'm aware that some cats died, and one was crippled and confined to the elder's den...but that can happen with just being a regular warrior too, like with Stonepelt in Bluestar's Prophecy, and Longtail got blinded by hunting. Honestly, I think it has more pros than cons, they can pretty much feed their clan year round, they can stay warm in leaf-bare, and cool in green-leaf. Not to mention, they can secretly invade other clans, or have a quick escape route if they need it. Also, they'd have an advantage if they were attacked in the tunnels, because they would have the skills to fight in the dark, and in small spaces, whereas their attackers wouldn't. Another thing is, it's pretty dark underground, vision isn't much needed, so if a cat is blind, they'd have another option, rather than just being a medicine cat, or being sent to the elder's den. A lot of people will probably disagree with me, but I think tunneling is more good, than it is bad, and I wish it would make a comeback.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 9, 2020 17:43:28 GMT -5
Here's the thing about tunneling: cats die aboveground all the time, but underground is far more dangerous and unpredictable. One slip-up could cause a cave-in or flooding.
The fact that three cats were harmed within a short amount of time of each other—two of whom lost their lives—an entire patrol nearly drowned—one of which consisted of a moor running apprentice—and the Clan was ambushed by ShadowClan while the tunnelers were away... I really don't blame Heatherstar for banning it.
Just because some things are tradition doesn't mean it's meant to last.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 17:46:42 GMT -5
Here's the thing about tunneling: cats die aboveground all the time, but underground is far more dangerous and unpredictable. One slip-up could cause a cave-in or flooding. The fact that three cats were harmed within a short amount of time of each other—two of whom lost their lives—an entire patrol nearly drowned—one of which consisted of a moor running apprentice—and the Clan was ambushed by ShadowClan while the tunnelers were away... I really don't blame Heatherstar for banning it. Just because some things are tradition doesn't mean it's meant to last. Those are good points, I still think it has a lot of good things to it too, but I guess WindClan is thriving just fine without it...though, I do wonder if it could have helped them, when Brokenstar chased out their clan?
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Mar 9, 2020 17:49:25 GMT -5
Here's the thing about tunneling: cats die aboveground all the time, but underground is far more dangerous and unpredictable. One slip-up could cause a cave-in or flooding. The fact that three cats were harmed within a short amount of time of each other—two of whom lost their lives—an entire patrol nearly drowned—one of which consisted of a moor running apprentice—and the Clan was ambushed by ShadowClan while the tunnelers were away... I really don't blame Heatherstar for banning it. Just because some things are tradition doesn't mean it's meant to last. Exactly. The stakes are that much higher and dangerous with tunneling. If a cat messes something up when they're underground, that means everyone in the tunnels are in danger. All it takes is one mistake, then the entire system is collapsing, or at least several tunnels where other cats are working. The tunnels were too precarious. This is opposed to hunting or fighting above-ground, where one misstep won't get your entire patrol killed or literally buried alive. You can't really compare the dangers, because tunneling inherently carried more risks and potential losses. Plus, the trash talking and infighting in the Clan was silly. Personally, I think Heatherstar was right to ban it. The pros simply didn't outweigh the cons for me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 17:51:49 GMT -5
MayflowerI didn't really think about it like that.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Tunneling
Mar 9, 2020 18:03:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 9, 2020 18:03:36 GMT -5
Here's the thing about tunneling: cats die aboveground all the time, but underground is far more dangerous and unpredictable. One slip-up could cause a cave-in or flooding. The fact that three cats were harmed within a short amount of time of each other—two of whom lost their lives—an entire patrol nearly drowned—one of which consisted of a moor running apprentice—and the Clan was ambushed by ShadowClan while the tunnelers were away... I really don't blame Heatherstar for banning it. Just because some things are tradition doesn't mean it's meant to last. Those are good points, I still think it has a lot of good things to it too, but I guess WindClan is thriving just fine without it...though, I do wonder if it could have helped them, when Brokenstar chased out their clan? I really don't see how it could've helped them, especially since ShadowClan cats are used to seeing in the dark anyway. They even had their own tunnel system connecting to both WindClan and ThunderClan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 18:05:31 GMT -5
Those are good points, I still think it has a lot of good things to it too, but I guess WindClan is thriving just fine without it...though, I do wonder if it could have helped them, when Brokenstar chased out their clan? I really don't see how it could've helped them, especially since ShadowClan cats are used to seeing in the dark anyway. They even had their own tunnel system connecting to both WindClan and ThunderClan. Oh yeah, I was thinking they could have hid in there, but you're right
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Mar 9, 2020 18:08:45 GMT -5
Mayflower I didn't really think about it like that. Honestly, I liked the concept of tunneling, so I get where you're coming from. I wish there was some other unique thing WindClan can do besides running (which, to be fair, the other Clans have nothing on speed when it comes to WindClan, but you get what I mean haha). No matter how much I wrack my brain, though, I can't think of something that'd make tunneling safer. Even though they already did what they could to lessen the danger and keep things stable, the inherent precariousness of the entire activity as a whole means there isn't much they could do to lessen that risk. I do find it sad that the tradition of it was lost and never mentioned, but then you have a problem where some young WindClan cats might get cocky and decide to try it out. We'd be right back where we started lol the Clans have a bad habit of letting history repeat itself in bad ways, even when they try to stress the dangers, so the tradition quietly dying is what's best, even if I do find it regretful.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 18:16:59 GMT -5
Mayflower I didn't really think about it like that. Honestly, I liked the concept of tunneling, so I get where you're coming from. I wish there was some other unique thing WindClan can do besides running (which, to be fair, the other Clans have nothing on speed when it comes to WindClan, but you get what I mean haha). No matter how much I wrack my brain, though, I can't think of something that'd make tunneling safer. Even though they already did what they could to lessen the danger and keep things stable, the inherent precariousness of the entire activity as a whole means there isn't much they could do to lessen that risk. I do find it sad that the tradition of it was lost and never mentioned, but then you have a problem where some young WindClan cats might get cocky and decide to try it out. We'd be right back where we started lol the Clans have a bad habit of letting history repeat itself in bad ways, even when they try to stress the dangers, so the tradition quietly dying is what's best, even if I do find it regretful. Yeah, that's true. I just REALLY like tunneling, I found it super interesting to read about, it was my absolute favorite part about Tallstar's Revenge. I find it really amazing, that they like go in, and build these elaborate tunnels, they don't only dig out dirt, but they also use rocks and stuff to stabilize them as well, which takes a lot of brain power, instead of just relying on strength or speed for everything. I just find it really interesting I guess
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Post by Skypaw13 on Mar 11, 2020 2:35:46 GMT -5
Tallstar's Revenge gets my award for Most Meh SE, so I haven't read it in like 6 years, forgive me if I'm entirely wrong:
I think tunneling should be around in WindClan still, but only for cats who have already become warriors. Like, before, they would designate kits to be either moor-runners or tunnelers, and I think that's bad. What they should do instead is train all apprentices to be moor runners. Then, after becoming warriors, they should have to mentor at least one apprentice (like the req for becoming deputy) to prove they're responsible and work well with others, and only then should they be allowed into the tunnels, and only by their choice. No one will force them into it. This ensures that anyone who tunnels is at lowest possible risk for making a dumb mistake or thinking they're so smart when they're not. Additionally, if a kit, apprentice, or junior warrior is discovered to be in the tunnels for a non-emergency reason (emergency like escaping from a predator or something), the punishment should be very severe.
And yes, I'm sure occasionally a rebellious apprentice would wander off into the tunnels, but that's really no different than Heatherpaw stumbling into them in Dark River. Plus, think of all the plots you could have for future SEs and novellas, or even main arcs!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 8:02:42 GMT -5
Tallstar's Revenge gets my award for Most Meh SE, so I haven't read it in like 6 years, forgive me if I'm entirely wrong: I think tunneling should be around in WindClan still, but only for cats who have already become warriors. Like, before, they would designate kits to be either moor-runners or tunnelers, and I think that's bad. What they should do instead is train all apprentices to be moor runners. Then, after becoming warriors, they should have to mentor at least one apprentice (like the req for becoming deputy) to prove they're responsible and work well with others, and only then should they be allowed into the tunnels, and only by their choice. No one will force them into it. This ensures that anyone who tunnels is at lowest possible risk for making a dumb mistake or thinking they're so smart when they're not. Additionally, if a kit, apprentice, or junior warrior is discovered to be in the tunnels for a non-emergency reason (emergency like escaping from a predator or something), the punishment should be very severe. And yes, I'm sure occasionally a rebellious apprentice would wander off into the tunnels, but that's really no different than Heatherpaw stumbling into them in Dark River. Plus, think of all the plots you could have for future SEs and novellas, or even main arcs! That's a really good idea It would be awesome to see SEs and Novellas where tunneling is the main focus lol Now I want a Sandgorse novella.
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Post by platinum blond death on Mar 11, 2020 21:10:12 GMT -5
Personally, I think tunnelling is cool in theory, but practically it would be too dangerous, especially for younger and weaker cats. I agree that if anyone is to be allowed down there, it's warriors and above only. No one else, not even for emergencies, because that's too risky. Like others have said, one wrong move and it's all over. If it rains the tunnels are unusuable. If you bump the walls you could bring the whole thing on top of you. Outside, there's no such thing as "one wrong move and it's all over." There are other activites that carry the same risk, e.g., climbing a tree, but cats can land safely (from a reasonable height) should they react quickly. There is no way a cat can save themselves from a tunnel cave-in other than running, and if they're too deep then they're dead. Or if they're trapped.
It's actually really cool, but super dangerous. I wish there was another way for them to tunnel.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 21:18:57 GMT -5
Personally, I think tunnelling is cool in theory, but practically it would be too dangerous, especially for younger and weaker cats. I agree that if anyone is to be allowed down there, it's warriors and above only. No one else, not even for emergencies, because that's too risky. Like others have said, one wrong move and it's all over. If it rains the tunnels are unusuable. If you bump the walls you could bring the whole thing on top of you. Outside, there's no such thing as "one wrong move and it's all over." There are other activites that carry the same risk, e.g., climbing a tree, but cats can land safely (from a reasonable height) should they react quickly. There is no way a cat can save themselves from a tunnel cave-in other than running, and if they're too deep then they're dead. Or if they're trapped. It's actually really cool, but super dangerous. I wish there was another way for them to tunnel. True, they do have safety measures though, like reinforcing the tunnels, but still cats died, so it's not 100% fool-proof...so yeah, if there was a better and safer way, then it'd be perfect.
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