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Post by Willowmoon on Jul 19, 2019 3:15:38 GMT -5
So, I know this subject caused a lot of controversy and stuff, and I don’t want to offend anyone, but I’m a bit confused. I get how it’s kind of idk...maybe not the sort of thing to put in a kid's series, because they might misunderstand it. It’s really child abuse, how thistleclaw manipulated Spottedleaf into helping him, she was practically a kit. He took advantage of her youth and stuff. I’m a kid, and haven’t read the book, can someone please explain it a bit to me?
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jul 19, 2019 3:23:47 GMT -5
I don't want to offend you, but the fact that you and kids like you don't understand is the reason why it upset so many people. The subject wasn't handled in a way that kids in the target demographic are able to understand, and the book's portrayal of the situation was too nuanced and adult for kids to be reading. It should have been portrayed as obviously bad behavior, and instead it's not clear what message the book is trying to send until much later.
I'd look up Moonkitti's video "I sort-of spoil Spottedleaf's Heart" if you want to know more without reading the book. I'm not very good at explaining it, but she does a great job.
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Post by maiareadswarriors on Jul 19, 2019 3:45:40 GMT -5
I find it very problematic. While a lot of adults enjoy these books and can pick up the context in this story, the books are written for children. They are targeted at 8-12 year olds and I wouldn't let an 8-12 year old read these books. My 11 year old and 7 year old brothers are reading the books right now and I'm going to read Spottedleaf's Heart with my 11 year old brother and have my younger brother skip over it entirely if he sticks with the series long enough to get to the point where he would read this one. The abuse isn't spelled out enough for children to understand. There are so many people out there in abusive relationships who don't see how bad their partner really is. Spottedleaf is like those people, young and clueless. And the target audience of these books are young and clueless. This is the only Warriors book that I have ever been upset about getting published. If the books were targeted at adults, I'd have much less of a problem with it. But they aren't and this novella will cause problems with young people. I don't recommend under 10s reading this one. And anyone under 18 should read it with a responsible adult. This novella needs to come with a serious conversation if it's read at all.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jul 19, 2019 3:53:15 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with all of that. Some teenagers may be able to understand, I was 16 when I read the book and found it immediately horrifying, and most of my peers would have as well, but there are those who won't. I would say if you're under 13 don't read it at all, and if you're in the 13-18 range make sure you know what you're getting into first, as well as why it's a bad thing.
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Post by Willowmoon on Jul 19, 2019 7:13:49 GMT -5
I don't want to offend you, but the fact that you and kids like you don't understand is the reason why it upset so many people. The subject wasn't handled in a way that kids in the target demographic are able to understand, and the book's portrayal of the situation was too nuanced and adult for kids to be reading. It should have been portrayed as obviously bad behavior, and instead it's not clear what message the book is trying to send until much later. I'd look up Moonkitti's video "I sort-of spoil Spottedleaf's Heart" if you want to know more without reading the book. I'm not very good at explaining it, but she does a great job. Yea! Actually moonkitti was how I realised this book existed, and I think it was a good video on it. I haven’t read it myself, so I don’t know much about it.
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Post by Willowmoon on Jul 19, 2019 7:16:18 GMT -5
I understand how it’s child abuse, and I kind of think some of the target audience wouldn’t understand if properly. I’m not sure much of how people reacted though, I don’t have any social media or anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 9:57:49 GMT -5
Personally, I enjoyed Spottedleaf's Heart because of the message of the book. I do agree with many fans that it's completely inappropriate to put a topic like this in a children's series, but I didn't think the book was as bad as some people say it is. I'm one of the few fans who accepts it as canon.
For one, I liked how it proved Thistleclaw's true colors without the biased opinion from Bluestar's PoV. Even though there's actual evidence in her own book that Thistleclaw is a bloodthirsty villain, more PoVs that isn't from Bluefur confirmed that he's evil.
Spottedleaf has many flaws, too. She's too trusting, like a child would be in real life. She immediately trusted Thistleclaw when she saw him give affection to these kits, and it makes sense that she'd have a crush on him; he's handsome after all, to some cats, and he seemed gentle and she saw nothing but good in him. Spottedleaf was shown to be "bossy", and I don't know why some people like Quiet Rage were mad about this and thought this was "out of character" when this was Spottedleaf as a kit back then. I thought this was a fitting part of her character, because in Into the Wild, she's fierce and tough, not afraid to stand up for herself against cats like Tigerclaw.
Maybe there's other flaws as well, but it's been a while since I've read the book, so I can't remember it.
I don't think people at the age under 8 or 13 should read this book, but if you're an adult then it should be okay for you to read about if you're not uncomfortable with the topic. If I'm remembering correctly (but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), Vicky did warn us that it wasn't going to be an appropriate topic, though I still think it was wrong of her to write something so dark in this series for kids, even if I did like the book.
Anyway, I liked the book because it gave us more of Spottedleaf's flaws and it revealed Thistleclaw's true colors. It's also a realistic topic since stuff like this happens in the real world, so the characters felt realistic and genuine to me. Again, if you're a child, I definitely wouldn't recommend this, but if you're a young or grown adult then this should be okay to read about. I didn't find it that uncomfortable to read, except the parts when Thistleclaw used StarClan to manipulate her to be together. But other than that, I enjoyed it, though I understand the backlash about the book.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Jul 19, 2019 15:26:56 GMT -5
I think it should have been written better. -_- In Spottedleaf's Heart, Spottedleaf wants to be a warrior, but in Bluestar's Prophecy, she wanted to be a medicine cat. And Spottedleaf's relationship with Thistleclaw was just so bad and gross. No child should read it unless they're older teens/young adults.
We also didn't need another reason why Thistleclaw was a bad cat. He let his apprentice attack a kit (Bluestar's Prophecy), trained in the Dark Forest (Crookedstar's Promise), and if he became leader, he would have destroyed ThunderClan. That's enough reason.
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Post by Willowmoon on Jul 19, 2019 17:33:40 GMT -5
It probably would of been best to not put in a kid's book. Some of the readers would be little kids, and they might not understand what was going on and how it was wrong. I haven’t read it, but I watched moonkitti's video on it, and I think that it would of been best to just not put literal child abuse in a kid's book.
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Post by Brindlefern on Jul 19, 2019 17:37:32 GMT -5
It probably would of been best to not put in a kid's book. Some of the readers would be little kids, and they might not understand what was going on and how it was wrong. I haven’t read it, but I watched moonkitti's video on it, and I think that it would of been best to just not put literal child abuse in a kid's book. Tell that to Vicky who thought it was a good idea to in the first place. xp Like seriously how out of touch with the demographic of your audience do you gotta be to think that's acceptable? I get Warriors has gore and shit but gore isn't what SH is so it's not the same level.
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Post by Willowmoon on Jul 19, 2019 17:45:14 GMT -5
I get why she did it (kinda) but it would of been better just not to.
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