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Post by Viperstrike on Apr 6, 2019 0:38:31 GMT -5
Who do you think the secret villain of TBC is?
Right now, my guesses are between Sol and Ashfur, with Darktail also being a possibility.
Reasons for Sol:
- Sol has a deep hatred for the Clans, and has worked hard to destroy them.
- The last time we see Sol, he says:
"Many seasons ago, I knew another of your Clans, far away in a gorge. They scorned me too; they told me I wasn't good enough to be one of their precious warriors! So I vowed to prove to all of you that the warrior code means nothing. In the end, you will kill one another for reasons that aren't so much as a mousetail." TFW 313
- The voice in question is obsessed with the warrior code, particularly those who break it. It would be in Sol's nature to use the warrior code against the Clans.
- This voice speaks of a coming darkness. Darkness is also associated with Sol. During his first appearance, he speaks of the coming eclipse mystifying the Clan. As he's being escorted out of camp, he walks up to Jayfeather and whispers in his ear to remember that darkness is coming. It is clear he is talking about more than just the eclipse. In TFW, the last time we see Sol, he wanders away into the darkness of the tunnels.
- Sol has a lot of connection to ShadowClan. They were the first Clan he was able to trick. If this voice is him, it makes sense why he would target them again. He knows how gullible they are, especially Shadowpaw who is a new apprentice. Sol would never be able to trick a senior medicine cat, but he could trick someone with little experience.
- Almost every cat the voice calls out, has some connection to Sol.
Jayfeather and Lionblaze - the two cats who have the most connection to Sol
Crowfeather - one of the cats Sol failed to manipulate in TFW
Dovewing - helped Hollyleaf attack and drive out Sol
Twigbranch - found SkyClan and brought them to the lake, saving them.
Tree - Tree got everything Sol wanted. A special rank was made for Tree, allowing him to stay in SkyClan while Sol was exiled.
The only two I can't figure out is Squirrelflight and Mothwing. There is also one more problem... why is there no mention of Tigerheart? After all, he was one of the Clans who helped get rid of Sol. Except... there is mention of him, in one of Shadowpaw's visions. Tigerheart is shown being attacked by Bramblestar. Now that leaves Leafstar. The only explination I can think of is that she's going to die and he knows it.
Reasons for Ashfur:
- He's controversial
- The voice speaks of Squirrelflight, Jayfeather, Lionblaze and Crowfeather, all cats Ashfur would hate.
- This thing has control over Bramblestar, another cat Ashfur hates
- The repeated visions of fires and ashes, which seem like hints to me.
The problem with this for me though is:
- Why Tree, Twigbranch, and Mothwing?
- Since when has Ashfur cared about the warrior code?
- Since when has Ashfur wanted to destroy all of the Clans?
- If StarClan is unable to communicate with the Clans, and Ashfur is apart of StarClan, how is he doing this? How is he that powerful?
- Why now? Why not during the Dark Forest battle?
Anyways, I want to know what you guys think.
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Post by Phoenix1410 on Apr 6, 2019 1:12:37 GMT -5
I thinks, it's probably Sol. Ashfur, in contrast to Sol, has more things that refute his appearance, or at least don't make sense yet. And Sol also has a connection to our protagonist clans (ThunderClan, SkyClan and ShadowClan). And the blurb from TST makes it clear that ShC and SkC are in conflict in this book (The clans Sol did the most damage to, I think).
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 6, 2019 1:20:35 GMT -5
Honestly, even though I still think it's Ashfur, I don't really care that much. If it's Ashfur, it's Ashfur. If it's Sol, it's Sol. Heck, maybe they're working together! Who knows! Just give me more fake Bramblestar because I am so intrigued by the direction this is all going.
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Post by Viperstrike on Apr 6, 2019 1:26:52 GMT -5
Honestly, even though I still think it's Ashfur, I don't really care that much. If it's Ashfur, it's Ashfur. If it's Sol, it's Sol. Heck, maybe they're working together! Who knows! Just give me more fake Bramblestar because I am so intrigued by the direction this is all going. That's how I feel. I'd be fine with either of them, although if it is Ashfur I hope further books will explain how he is able to do this. That's my only problem.
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Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Apr 6, 2019 2:07:22 GMT -5
Something doesn't make sense though...around the time Bramblestar was acting strange and getting sick, Shadowpaw was still hearing a voice. Two or more cats HAVE to be working together. So if Ashfur possessed Bramblestar, then who would the voice be if it isn't Sol? A third cat I'm thinking of could be Darktail, because he did a lot of damage as well. First to SkyClan, second is ShadowClan, third is WindClan (through Onestar), and then finally RiverClan. The only Clan Darktail couldn't do anything to except make threats to, is ThunderClan. And if I remember, I think Darktail threatened Bramblestar but I can't recall what he said.
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Post by alphayamergo on Apr 6, 2019 2:31:14 GMT -5
I think it's Ashfur. We know Squirrelflight spent some time in StarClan during SqH, so I think something went down while she was there that has set Ashfur off again.
I'm probably biased though, because I really want the series to acknowledge that Ashfur was a terrible person, not a good guy who had a bad time.
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Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Apr 6, 2019 2:33:56 GMT -5
Hollyleaf better deliver that second death if it is Ashfur.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2019 7:38:24 GMT -5
I'm thinking that it's one of these three choices.
1. A corrupted StarClan cat 2. A Dark Forest cat 3. A cat from a place even worse than the Dark Forest
I'm betting that it's the last one, something like a demon cat appearing in the series.
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Post by Haze on Apr 6, 2019 8:44:24 GMT -5
The main reason to think its Ashfur it's the first Shadowpaw vision, the one that caused a seizure. Shadowpaw found himself at the Moonpool, but it wasn't frozen over. Soon he could smell smoke. He felt the heat of a fire burning close by, though he couldn't see it or hear the crackle of flames. Ash was fluttering in the sky, swirling around him and settling in tiny gray flakes on his pelt. Just then he heard cats fighting. He spun around and saw Bramblestar holding another cat on the ground and was slashing at his claws across this cats belly until it threw off Bramblestar and stood up. That was when Shadowpaw realized the other cat was Tigerstar. Shadowpaw was watching this fight in horror and couldn't understand why two Clan leaders who were also kin were fighting like this. Then the vision vanished. He could smell smoke and ashes was around, but no fire could be seen or heard. Later we get this from Bramblestar Bramblestar: "I know prey is scarce. But you shouldn't bother coming back until you have something to show for your efforts. If you're real warriors, you'll freeze your paws off if you have to, for the survival of your Clan." Squirrelflight: "Aren't you being a little harsh? All the warriors are doing their best under very difficult conditions. Bramblestar: "You would make excuses for them. You always had a soft spot for weak cats." It wouldn't be ANY cat, it's someone that Squirrelflight know and the answer was too personal, aimed directly to her.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 6, 2019 9:55:10 GMT -5
Lol, I already made a thread like this, but my vote is still Ashfur.
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Post by icefurs on Apr 6, 2019 14:38:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't put it past the series to make up a whole new character for this situation and then give em a tragic backstory that they spill all at once.
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Post by Jaysnow on Apr 6, 2019 14:46:18 GMT -5
Ashfur.
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Post by CRASHPAW on Apr 6, 2019 14:47:14 GMT -5
I'm going to guess Ashfur but I think Flametail would be cool, albeit pretty nonsensical. I really like that they didn't explicitly say who the villain was this time, like they usually do
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Post by embertuft on Apr 6, 2019 18:15:55 GMT -5
Assyfur
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Post by whiteflight on Apr 7, 2019 1:09:46 GMT -5
Ohhhhh this new arc is getting me excited I might plan to buy and read it!
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Post by mymerlincat on Apr 7, 2019 1:30:31 GMT -5
Anyone else think Juniperclaw is a possibility? Or a pissed off Rowanstar?
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Post by leafstep on Apr 7, 2019 10:11:04 GMT -5
Anyone else think Juniperclaw is a possibility? Or a pissed off Rowanstar? i don't think it's rowanstar. but i could see it being possible. maybe starclan changed the old guy. but i think he always had the best intentions at heart -- his role just tore him apart. he isn't evil, just... traumatized.
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Post by kells on Apr 7, 2019 10:38:29 GMT -5
It wouldn't make much sense if it was Ashfur. I mean, all these years and just now he wants to kick up something? That's three arcs of delay. But with what Mothwing said about StarClan, and Shadowpaw's vision, it does seem likely, albeit untimely as hell
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Post by Moonblazer on Apr 7, 2019 11:09:30 GMT -5
Anyone else think Juniperclaw is a possibility? Or a pissed off Rowanstar? I was actually thinking this, that it could be Rowanstar, but once Tawnypelt’s Novella spoilers came out, I kind of put that thought away. He just seems way too good to ever pull something like this. Now, if it was done right and Tawny’s Novella did not come in, I would not mind seeing a vengence call of a leader completely broken down by his traitor clanmates.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 7, 2019 11:34:02 GMT -5
It wouldn't make much sense if it was Ashfur. I mean, all these years and just now he wants to kick up something? That's three arcs of delay. But with what Mothwing said about StarClan, and Shadowpaw's vision, it does seem likely, albeit untimely as hell Old villains come back as major antagonists all the time in other media, so it actually isn't that far-fetched for the same to apply to pretty much any of the potential possessors, not just Ashfur. And if is him, then maybe seeing Squirrelflight in StarClan set something off. In a way, Tigerstar I could apply as well, at least in-universe. We as the readers know he was up to something since TNP, but it took him until the fourth arc for him to actually do anything; as far the rest of the Clan knew however, the threat of him had been eradicated years ago by Scourge, until the Clans were made aware of the Dark Forest rising in the last book of OotS.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 7, 2019 14:33:45 GMT -5
Anyone else think Juniperclaw is a possibility? Or a pissed off Rowanstar? If Juniperclaw hadn't broken the code a gajillion times himself, I could see it (went against his leader, poisoned cats from other clans) And after TC, it's definitely not Rowanstar. Besides, if he was that mad, I feel like he would have possessed someone he hated. Possessing Bramblestar hurts Tawnypelt, who he clearly loves to pieces and I don't think he'd want to cause her anymore pain (since he knows how much she loves her brother)
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 7, 2019 14:35:40 GMT -5
idk how seeing squirrelflight would "set him off." it makes no sense. can't starclan see the clans whenever they want or watch relatives? and even if he could only see her when she went to starclan bc of leafpool or some other reason, why would it set him off? starclan was better off being neutral, calm, and wise. not retaining their living personalities
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 7, 2019 14:39:53 GMT -5
idk how seeing squirrelflight would "set him off." it makes no sense. can't starclan see the clans whenever they want or watch relatives? and even if he could only see her when she went to starclan bc of leafpool or some other reason, why would it set him off? starclan was better off being neutral, calm, and wise. not retaining their living personalities Someone posted a quote earlier, but whoever is possessing Bramblestar DOES seem to have something against Squirrelflight. At the very least, they look down on her :/
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 7, 2019 14:42:33 GMT -5
idk how seeing squirrelflight would "set him off." it makes no sense. can't starclan see the clans whenever they want or watch relatives? and even if he could only see her when she went to starclan bc of leafpool or some other reason, why would it set him off? starclan was better off being neutral, calm, and wise. not retaining their living personalities Being able to see her from StarClan isn't the same as being in close proximity to her, though, and that's only if he even encountered her at all, seeing as how he seemed pretty isolated in OotS.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 7, 2019 14:46:03 GMT -5
idk how seeing squirrelflight would "set him off." it makes no sense. can't starclan see the clans whenever they want or watch relatives? and even if he could only see her when she went to starclan bc of leafpool or some other reason, why would it set him off? starclan was better off being neutral, calm, and wise. not retaining their living personalities Being able to see her from StarClan isn't the same as being in close proximity to her, though, and that's only if he even encountered her at all, seeing as how he seemed pretty isolated in OotS. this is why its so frustrating to change how starclan works so many times the ONLY reason he is in starclan (taking out meta author bias here) is because he still believed in the warrior code. his villainy only concerned another cat, not the warrior code or clan life itself. i think it'd make way more sense if the way cats got into the dark forest was expanded to include cats like ashfur who did have villainy towards another cat out of sheer pettiness (besides, his crimes still include attempted murder on multiple accounts)
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Scotus
Pronouns: distinctio realis
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Post by Scotus on Apr 7, 2019 19:50:13 GMT -5
Yeah... Why mothwing???
What's she ever done?
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 7, 2019 20:08:38 GMT -5
Yeah... Why mothwing??? What's she ever done? the only thing that makes mothwing a target is her open disbelief of starclan. however, i think (if im not mistaken) she says something like she has no choice but to believe it now since the dark forest battle forced her to believe?
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Post by stormfall on Apr 7, 2019 20:22:27 GMT -5
Voted for "Someone else" I think it might be Sleekwisker tbh. She could be a cool female if written correctly villain and could return with some of Darktails old cats
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 7, 2019 20:30:13 GMT -5
Yeah... Why mothwing??? What's she ever done? the only thing that makes mothwing a target is her open disbelief of starclan. however, i think (if im not mistaken) she says something like she has no choice but to believe it now since the dark forest battle forced her to believe? Here's what happens in LS:
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 7, 2019 20:46:07 GMT -5
the only thing that makes mothwing a target is her open disbelief of starclan. however, i think (if im not mistaken) she says something like she has no choice but to believe it now since the dark forest battle forced her to believe? Here's what happens in LS: ooh thanks. mothwing being sensible is a good thing
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