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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 16:04:47 GMT -5
Though I don't like to admit it, Hollyleaf probably too much on the glorified side. Going for a more obscure option, probably Speckletail. Rereading the series, she's actually quite aggressive. A major forgotten moment for her, is when she tried to stop Goldenflower (Her daughter) feeding Featherkit and Stormkit because they have "bad blood".
Then Ashfur and Mapleshade are way too often glorified to their younger fans.
Crowfeather (Exp. Mainly with MothwingXLeafpool) and Mapleshade's victims are often demonised. To the point, people often bluntly ignore facts (Exp. Failing to mention Riverclan patrol were already saving kits), exaggerate, push headcanons as facts, etc. to justify hating them.
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Post by scint on Mar 17, 2019 16:16:18 GMT -5
Dovewing is both glorified and demonized, but more of the demonized spectrum. Those who hate her often go overboard.
Crowfeather is demonized, along with Lionblaze, Jayfeather, and Tigerheart. Well, on here at least. (Except for Tigerheart, he's been demonized almost everywhere now.)
Breezepelt, Ivypool, Mapleshade, Swiftpaw, and Silverstream are all glorified too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 16:29:51 GMT -5
Needletail seems to be glorified a bit too much to me. While she's praised for being a morally gray character, I feel like that's why I can't find myself liking Needletail (or gray-and-gray morality at all).
Other Mentions: Shadowpaw, Nightcloud, Hollyleaf, Mapleshade
For a kind of minor character, Mistystar seems to be demonized in A Vision Of Shadows for closing RiverClan's borders. While her borders couldn't stay closed forever, I never blamed her for closing them; I felt like she needed to take care of her Clan first before helping the other Clans.
Other Mentions: Crowfeather, Lionblaze, Jayfeather, Graystripe
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 17, 2019 16:35:01 GMT -5
Dovewing is both glorified and demonized by both her stans and haters. But moreso the hatred goes super far in comparison to those that like her to where I wish they'd actually chill because holy shit. I try not to glorify her all that much in my like for her and acknowledge she's done some wrong things as well and can be frustrated with her BS too. Her sister Ivypool on the other hand is glorified, but I could never see why, aside from the reason that Dovewing is bad in comparison. I just can't see what's so great about her having read and reread her PoV myself.
Mapleshade is glorified while her victims are usually demonized. I don't like anyone in her novella except Myler though so yeah. But those that stan her are always as if she's justified in her kills or something, that's what I'm getting anyways, when she isn't innocent either and was a dumbass who caused her own consequences too.
Swiftpaw is glorified yeah, his actions, though I can understand his frustration in doing them, were also stupid and he should've known he was gonna get all kinds of maimed. Frustration blinded him to his consequences I guess? Idk.
Breezepelt is another cat who's both glorified and demonized on both sides, while Crow is usually demonized. And those that demonize Crow tend to have problems with those that like him. But that's probably just how I've seen tumblr Crow haters act because they're just terrible all around.
For some reason I still see people demonize Squirrelflight to this day for the whole Assfur situation still, and the Three... Speaking of Assfur he's glorified by not only his younger naive fans, but also the very former editor Vicky himself to the point she pitied him and painted him as a victim, even throwing him into cat heaven despite what he's done. After everything he did, it sickens me that there are in fact folks that think Squirrelflight DESERVED what Ashfur tried to do to her kits and father. *Glares at Blogclan* He's a psychopathic yandere and doesn't deserve any glorification and anyone that still does doesn't see how terrible his actions truly are.
And now recently there's a mix of love and hate for Shadowkit. The hate however is kinda annoying me in some areas of how it's expressed because oh mY GOD STOP CALLING HIM A GARY STU FFS!
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 17, 2019 16:39:23 GMT -5
Crowfeather used to be demonized, now he and Breezepelt are overrated and glorified.
Bramblestar is Kind of demonized.
Leafpool is demonized
Mapleshade is glorified and Appledusk is demonized.
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Post by Tas on Mar 17, 2019 17:26:14 GMT -5
Jayfeather seems to be demonized (although that's a harsh word) more than he deserves.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 17, 2019 17:37:17 GMT -5
Bramblestar has been demonized since he became deputy and then leader.
Jayfeather was too glorified despite him being annoying.
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Post by Sea Drops by a Bird on Mar 17, 2019 17:40:59 GMT -5
I think the biggest issue is the lack of consistency. I see a lot of tearing one character to shreds for one thing while praising another for the samething, and the biggest thing I see is fixating on one action or detail of a character and then letting it fuel a hate machine or love machine for them. I think in general the cats who are the most "demonized" and "glorified" don't really deserve it either way.
Crowfeather and Breezepelt both get a lot of hate and love- and people tend to like Breezepelt for the same reason they hate Crowfeather, or vice versa. Though I think what's caused this is the Crowfeather super edition.
Really I judge it by how quickly you can stir up a frenzy by making a post about the character.
Squirrelflight gets a lot of hate and love, though it mostly centers around Ashfur and the three.
It's too easy to say Spottedleaf, though I think it's died down some since she died.
Ivypool definitely gets a lot of hate and love, just like Dovewing. I think people either prefer one or the other, like Crowfeather and Breezepelt.
One that I recently found out is Leopardstar and Blackstar. People really hate them, though I'm not sure how undeserved it is. Personally I don't but I can see why others do.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 17, 2019 18:14:11 GMT -5
Definitely a few of the villains, with Breezepelt and Mapleshade in particular.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 17, 2019 18:18:08 GMT -5
I think the biggest issue is the lack of consistency. I see a lot of tearing one character to shreds for one thing while praising another for the samething, and the biggest thing I see is fixating on one action or detail of a character and then letting it fuel a hate machine or love machine for them. I think in general the cats who are the most "demonized" and "glorified" don't really deserve it either way. I would like this framed! Seriously, this is exactly what I've been wanting to say for years! Of course, this tends to go for any fandom, but regardless, it does get really annoying after awhile.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 17, 2019 18:29:42 GMT -5
I feel like one of the most demonized cats, at least on this forum, is Leafpool. I would also say Crowfeather is demonized more than he deserves to be. He wasn't a good dad, but there have been worse.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 17, 2019 20:08:54 GMT -5
Leafpool is undeserving of being demonized while Squirrelflight is undeserving of being glorified. The amount of Leafpool haters pisses me off and that is part of why I hate Squirrelflight in return and will always have a bias and favoritism towards Leafpool instead.
Crowfeather is also demonized. Lots of people still demonize Breezepelt, so I'm not sure if anyone is actually truly glorifying him just because of his lame redemption in CT or by him having a family of his own...?
Ivypool being glorified also makes me mad because we all know damn well she didn't do crap in OOTS and all her hype exists from nothing, really. Not sure why there was a phase in this fandom where everyone praised Ivypool to heaven and back for doing nothing actually important.
Cats who deserve to be demonized are villains such as Hawkfrost, Ashfur and Clear Sky, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 20:36:24 GMT -5
Ivypool can do no wrong according to most fans on here. Even the BOOKS try to make her look good when she's not.
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#FCCA57
star_green.png
Name Colour, Custom Stars
Papillon
Forum Pest
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Post by Papillon on Mar 17, 2019 21:33:25 GMT -5
People go waaay overboard with hating Dovewing honestly
Also the people calling Jayfeather "abusive" in AVoS like anything he does can be compared to what real abuse is
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 23:54:08 GMT -5
People go waaay overboard with hating Dovewing honestly Also the people calling Jayfeather "abusive" in AVoS like anything he does can be compared to what real abuse is No way in hell is Jayfeather abusive. Besides, Alderheart clearly stands up for himself now, and it's actually funny to see these two argue sometimes. Alder is clearly capable of taking care of himself, while Twig is just a bit oversensitive. He's mean, but not ****ing abusive. He's just harsh and cranky. Even SANDSTORM said he's always cranky and never truly angry.
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Post by Moonblazer on Mar 18, 2019 9:00:08 GMT -5
Hollyleaf is quite honestly one of the most glorified cats on here and honestly she’s not that great at all.
Again, Ivypool is both. Her haters are pretty vicious and make her out to be some sort of monster as if Dovewing does nothing wrong. Sure. People who love her too much can be inaccurate on things, but I see her being demonised waaaaay worse than idolized. Ivypool lovers on this site are never as vocal about loving her as her haters are about hating her but go off i guess.
Get off of Graystripe’s back for the love of god. He is demonised so badly sometimes and it grates my nerves to the moon and back.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 11:46:51 GMT -5
Shadowpaw is demonized already when he's not even fully written. We've literally only seen him for a few chapters, jfc. Really immature that he's constantly called a "gary-stu", too. Like, fine, go ahead and hate him, but calling him a stu is just childish.
Mapleshade is glorified because she had a "bad past". Oh, please! She's not the first with a hard life, and she certainly won't be the last.
Needletail is demonized, I've literally seen people say she deserves the Dark Forest, but has she done anything worthy of that besides acting like a punk?
Leafpool is demonized. She's learned from her mistakes, but fans seem to hold onto her crime from the past.
Lionblaze is demonized because of the things he's done to Heathertail. Sure, he was awful, but he grew up and they both got over it.
Breezepelt is glorified, but from the books from what I remember. Sure, let's go and forgive the cat who broke the code and turned on his Clanmates, trying to kill a pregnant cat, just because he felt "isolated and lonely". *rolls eyes*
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 18, 2019 12:03:16 GMT -5
Needletail is demonized, I've literally seen people say she deserves the Dark Forest, but has she done anything worthy of that besides acting like a punk? I'm honestly confused of WHERE they the editors would put her in the first place. Her being in Starclan didn't do anything to her character after her shoddy "redemption", and while maybe she isn't the absolute WORST atm to go to the DF (That would be Sleekwhisker cuz holy shit girl needs to chill, if SHE gets into Starclan I'm gonna flip ten tables), it doesn't fit her to be in cat heaven. Imo, she fits better being stuck in cat purgatory. Not Starclan, not in the DF. Just... stuck in the middle, because she didn't really do anything to really deserve Starclan imo. I would've stuck her in purgatory and kept her there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 21:02:16 GMT -5
I like this topic so I'm bumping it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 12:54:07 GMT -5
Bump.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:00:39 GMT -5
Bumblestripe seems demonized from what I've seen. I've seen people compare him to Ashfur, but in all the scenes I've seen him in, he seems really kind, and he seemed to take it really well, when Dovewing showed up with her and Tigerheart's kits.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Apr 15, 2019 13:10:15 GMT -5
As others have said, I feel like Hollyleaf is glorified. Those who like her tend to forget that she murdered her own Clanmate for a very petty reason, and ultimately got away with it when she should not have. Her redemption was good, but it doesn’t change that that happened.
Graystripe is another one that is demonized. Did he make a lot of mistakes? Yes. Did he have good reasons for doing what he did most of the time? Also yes. Did he do anything horrific like murder? No. It’s true he’s not a perfect character, but some people hate him a little too much * glares at Redux*
Bluestar is demonized unjustly sometimes. It’s true that her actions resulted in one of the death of her kits, but the narrative makes it very clear that she had no other choice. Furthermore, although her memory issues later on were a bit badly written, it’s not enough to go her a monster or otherwise see her as a villain.
From I’ve seen of him, Shadowpaw is glorified ( especially in the books themselves). He’s not a bad character by any means, but his specialness and powers get shoved in reader’s faces a little too much. Not to mention he has barely anything else if those special powers were taken away ( unlike say, Firestar or Brambleclaw, Who is the only special powers were the ability to speak with Starclan when a cat usually would not be able to, and they had characteristics beyond that). I feel like Shadowpaw would be perfect if his powers were also little more subtle, and there was more to him, but alas, that’s not the case. I can also see why people call him a Stu because of the over emphasis on his powers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:10:30 GMT -5
I'd say Heathertail is demonized. Lionblaze is by far the worst in the relationship, the only one who ever used violence and attempted murder. No amount of silent stares and snark is going to amount to that. In fact, I'd say all power to her, that's exactly what Heathertail should be doing. If she let her guard down round her and mentor's attempted murderer, she should end up getting killed for real.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:12:40 GMT -5
Did he do anything horrific like murder? No. Whiteclaw, Clawface and Darkstripe. Just saying.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:15:17 GMT -5
Did he do anything horrific like murder? No. Whiteclaw, Clawface and Darkstripe. Just saying. Whiteclaw was an accident, and Clawface and Darkstripe was in self-defense of him/ his clanmates.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 13:22:31 GMT -5
Whiteclaw, Clawface and Darkstripe. Just saying. Whiteclaw was an accident, and Clawface and Darkstripe was in self-defense of him/ his clanmates. Doesn't change 2 are still defiantly murder.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Apr 15, 2019 13:55:52 GMT -5
Whiteclaw was an accident, and Clawface and Darkstripe was in self-defense of him/ his clanmates. Doesn't change 2 are still defiantly murder. Murder would mean he planned to kill both of them for a reason other than self-defense or being in battle on the enemy side. As mentioned before, Whiteclaw was an accident (one which Greystripe still felt incredibly guilty over). The second was with an established enemy that was outside of the code. According to the code itself, Greystripe had the right to kill him, especially if the former’s clanmates were being attacked ( which they were. The same can be said for Darkstripe, especially since the latter betrayed the Clan Graystripe was in.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 15, 2019 15:11:45 GMT -5
Squirrelflight is too glorified. Since i have bias for leafpool, i see it this way, sorry.
Characters like clear sky are in the middle. Yes he is a well written bad guy, but as a character he is an evil butt and i have no problems demonizing him.
Dovewing can also be in the middle since blind dovewing lovers want to excuse her idiocy and hypocrisy and selfishness, while people like me have no problem demonizing her for those things.
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