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Post by embertuft on Feb 15, 2019 18:46:30 GMT -5
Yup. It was the better choice. I’m pretty sure Thornclaw even got two apprentices pregnant or something in that fanfic). And the authors excuse for writing it like that was “Well I really hate Squirrelflight” Wasn’t her rank put down to like an apprentice or something? Bramblestar was weird in doing that, and poor me reading was probably scarred for life at the atrocious thing infront of my eyes. Yeah. The two apprentices were, uh, assaulted by Thornclaw. Cinderheart blamed them for it and was exiled because of it or just left, I don't remember. I think she tried to get her other daugher(Fernpaw I think)who was a medcat to go with her but she refused. It was very uncomfortable to read. Yeah Squirrelflight was also deputy but demoted to apprentice and replaced with Jessy as deputy. Leafpool was also demoted again and killed at some point. Didn’t their daughter Blizzardpaw demand to be killed by Squirrelflight, so she did and Brambleclaw practically went WILD at her.
I remember reading another fanfic about Brambleclaw/ Squirrelflight where she was expecting his kits, he got angry, and struck out at her, causing one of the kits to die. Let’s just say, if I’ve ever been traumatised by a fanfic, that sure is a one I’m still haunted by.
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Post by Amber on Feb 15, 2019 18:50:29 GMT -5
Yeah. The two apprentices were, uh, assaulted by Thornclaw. Cinderheart blamed them for it and was exiled because of it or just left, I don't remember. I think she tried to get her other daugher(Fernpaw I think)who was a medcat to go with her but she refused. It was very uncomfortable to read. Yeah Squirrelflight was also deputy but demoted to apprentice and replaced with Jessy as deputy. Leafpool was also demoted again and killed at some point. Didn’t their daughter Blizzardpaw demand to be killed by Squirrelflight, so she did and Brambleclaw practically went WILD at her.
I remember reading another fanfic about Brambleclaw/ Squirrelflight where she was expecting his kits, he got angry, and struck out at her, causing one of the kits to die. Let’s just say, if I’ve ever been traumatised by a fanfic, that sure is a one I’m still haunted by. Oh yeah I think that was something that happened! And then because Brambleclaw was becoming evil or something, Jessy and Stormcloud began get together and raise the last two kits as mates or something. Never read/heard about that one but yikes. I don't like Brambleclaw, but he would never do something like that. I would hope Squirrelflight wouldn'st stay with him after something like that.
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Post by embertuft on Feb 15, 2019 18:54:49 GMT -5
Didn’t their daughter Blizzardpaw demand to be killed by Squirrelflight, so she did and Brambleclaw practically went WILD at her.
I remember reading another fanfic about Brambleclaw/ Squirrelflight where she was expecting his kits, he got angry, and struck out at her, causing one of the kits to die. Let’s just say, if I’ve ever been traumatised by a fanfic, that sure is a one I’m still haunted by. Oh yeah I think that was something that happened! And then because Brambleclaw was becoming evil or something, Jessy and Stormcloud began get together and raise the last two kits as mates or something. Never read/heard about that one but yikes. I don't like Brambleclaw, but he would never do something like that. I would hope Squirrelflight wouldn'st stay with him after something like that. m.fanfiction.net/s/5543529/1/Brace yourself- or just yeah.
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Post by Amber on Feb 15, 2019 18:58:30 GMT -5
Oh yeah I think that was something that happened! And then because Brambleclaw was becoming evil or something, Jessy and Stormcloud began get together and raise the last two kits as mates or something. Never read/heard about that one but yikes. I don't like Brambleclaw, but he would never do something like that. I would hope Squirrelflight wouldn'st stay with him after something like that. m.fanfiction.net/s/5543529/1/Brace yourself- or just yeah. Regrets here I come.
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Post by embertuft on Feb 15, 2019 18:59:38 GMT -5
11 year old me read it and, well. Scarred for life.
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Post by Amber on Feb 15, 2019 19:05:40 GMT -5
11 year old me read it and, well. Scarred for life. Yeah it was bad. Everyone's out of character, the writing was poor and the fact Squirrelflight was still in love with him after that is problematic.
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Post by embertuft on Feb 15, 2019 19:07:14 GMT -5
11 year old me read it and, well. Scarred for life. Yeah it was bad. Everyone's out of character, the writing was poor and the fact Squirrelflight was still in love with him after that is problematic. Very extreme lengths of a VERY toxic relationship
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Post by Amber on Feb 15, 2019 19:35:09 GMT -5
Yeah it was bad. Everyone's out of character, the writing was poor and the fact Squirrelflight was still in love with him after that is problematic. Very extreme lengths of a VERY toxic relationship Oh yes. Even ignoring how everyone is not themselves, it's just excusing Brambleclaw's behavior and acting like Bramble did nothing wrong in the end. Honestly, the only good thing this does that I like is having an interesting what if with Squirrel having Bramble's kits after the secret was revealrd.
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Post by embertuft on Feb 15, 2019 19:37:28 GMT -5
Very extreme lengths of a VERY toxic relationship Oh yes. Even ignoring how everyone is not themselves, it's just excusing Brambleclaw's behavior and acting like Bramble did nothing wrong in the end. Honestly, the only good thing this does that I like is having an interesting what if with Squirrel having Bramble's kits after the secret was revealrd. But genuinely that bit where the kit dies literally SICKENS me. I just can’t. How can someone even think to write this????
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Post by Amber on Feb 15, 2019 19:43:11 GMT -5
Oh yes. Even ignoring how everyone is not themselves, it's just excusing Brambleclaw's behavior and acting like Bramble did nothing wrong in the end. Honestly, the only good thing this does that I like is having an interesting what if with Squirrel having Bramble's kits after the secret was revealrd. But genuinely that bit where the kit dies literally SICKENS me. I just can’t. How can someone even think to write this???? Yeah. Seeing as this is from almost 10 years ago, my best guess is someone hated Brambleclaw or wanted to write something dark for the sake of it and this is what we got for whatever reasons. Well, at least it was a one-shot and not a full blown story.
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Post by embertuft on Feb 15, 2019 19:46:17 GMT -5
But genuinely that bit where the kit dies literally SICKENS me. I just can’t. How can someone even think to write this???? Yeah. Seeing as this is from almost 10 years ago, my best guess is someone hated Brambleclaw or wanted to write something dark for the sake of it and this is what we got for whatever reasons. Well, at least it was a one-shot and not a full blown story. * shudders with great horror*
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Post by wolfcry32 on Feb 16, 2019 20:05:23 GMT -5
A ton of fics start with the main character as a kit, so we can follow their journey from the beginning. Even when nothing significant happens. If the bulk of your character’s story takes place during the middle of their life, don’t be afraid to start there.
In the same vein, fics following similar formats. The main character is a kit, they get into some mischief, they become an apprentice, they show talent for a particular skill, they go to their first Gathering- probably meet the antagonist/villain for the first time while there...it’s very much like using ITW as an outline.
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Post by Mistymoon on Feb 24, 2019 20:49:41 GMT -5
I wince read a fan fiction where a kit had a mate and was given nine live and told she wold become leader so she got nine more. It bother me if there a fanon clans and they are exact replicas of the original 4 clans
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Post by halogen on Feb 24, 2019 21:13:17 GMT -5
Could I just defend the name stuff here? Whitestorm to Whitecloud is kind of silly, but Brambleflower is honestly getting too much hate - the argument that "flower" is just for nurturing cats is kind of exactly the logic of "traditional naming" that people on this site hate, that names always have exactly one purpose that is a Law rather than being flexible - so Bramble could very well get one after his mother. And Goldenflower's role is underplayed, and while I can see Firestar's logic in wanting to take back the name I feel like giving him the name Brambleflower gives him more of an identity than in canon where all of his characterization and identity is just led back to being Tigerstar's son, to the point where Goldenflower gets entirely ignored. So yes, I like Brambleflower, though seeing how so many people despise it makes me feel like a horrible fanfic writer...
As for the Murkpelt thing in the redux, she was actually always called Yellowfang, it was just noted that it was a nickname everyone called her rather than a birth name because it wouldn't make sense for parents to name a newborn (gray-colored) kit Yellowkit because they predict she will one day be an old cat with yellow teeth.
Overall, I feel like the hatred for name changes is overblown. People are always justly criticizing various aspects of the warriors series and writing alternate universes/rewrites, but why is it that the particular aspect of names is somehow sacrosanct even if the Erins genuinely messed it up, to the point where people think even slightly altering it makes an otherwise good fanfic unreadable? If you think Brambleclaw was poorly written because his arc was too one-dimensionally focused on being Tigerstar's son and want to change that in a rewrite story, fine, and if the name is part of what you want to change to accomplish that goal, that's also fine, there's nothing about names that makes then uniquely immune to changing to make the series better.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 24, 2019 21:33:21 GMT -5
Could I just defend the name stuff here? Whitestorm to Whitecloud is kind of silly, but Brambleflower is honestly getting too much hate - the argument that "flower" is just for nurturing cats is kind of exactly the logic of "traditional naming" that people on this site hate, that names always have exactly one purpose that is a Law rather than being flexible - so Bramble could very well get one after his mother. And Goldenflower's role is underplayed, and while I can see Firestar's logic in wanting to take back the name I feel like giving him the name Brambleflower gives him more of an identity than in canon where all of his characterization and identity is just led back to being Tigerstar's son, to the point where Goldenflower gets entirely ignored. So yes, I like Brambleflower, though seeing how so many people despise it makes me feel like a horrible fanfic writer... As for the Murkpelt thing in the redux, she was actually always called Yellowfang, it was just noted that it was a nickname everyone called her rather than a birth name because it wouldn't make sense for parents to name a newborn (gray-colored) kit Yellowkit because they predict she will one day be an old cat with yellow teeth. Overall, I feel like the hatred for name changes is overblown. People are always justly criticizing various aspects of the warriors series and writing alternate universes/rewrites, but why is it that the particular aspect of names is somehow sacrosanct even if the Erins genuinely messed it up, to the point where people think even slightly altering it makes an otherwise good fanfic unreadable? If you think Brambleclaw was poorly written because his arc was too one-dimensionally focused on being Tigerstar's son and want to change that in a rewrite story, fine, and if the name is part of what you want to change to accomplish that goal, that's also fine, there's nothing about names that makes then uniquely immune to changing to make the series better. I can't think of any single other fandom that plays around with names as much as the Warriors fandom and the reason for that is that above all else, you want your characters to be recognizable in a fanfic and unless you really have good reason for the name being changed(like an arc where Brambleclaw wants to be more than just Tigerstar's shadow) then changing them just feels like pointless tweaks in the background that don't add anything. Imagine if in Harry Potter fanfics, Ron was randomly called Alex. Does it add anything? Is there any reason for it beyond a flippant thought?
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Post by halogen on Feb 24, 2019 22:18:48 GMT -5
Could I just defend the name stuff here? Whitestorm to Whitecloud is kind of silly, but Brambleflower is honestly getting too much hate - the argument that "flower" is just for nurturing cats is kind of exactly the logic of "traditional naming" that people on this site hate, that names always have exactly one purpose that is a Law rather than being flexible - so Bramble could very well get one after his mother. And Goldenflower's role is underplayed, and while I can see Firestar's logic in wanting to take back the name I feel like giving him the name Brambleflower gives him more of an identity than in canon where all of his characterization and identity is just led back to being Tigerstar's son, to the point where Goldenflower gets entirely ignored. So yes, I like Brambleflower, though seeing how so many people despise it makes me feel like a horrible fanfic writer... As for the Murkpelt thing in the redux, she was actually always called Yellowfang, it was just noted that it was a nickname everyone called her rather than a birth name because it wouldn't make sense for parents to name a newborn (gray-colored) kit Yellowkit because they predict she will one day be an old cat with yellow teeth. Overall, I feel like the hatred for name changes is overblown. People are always justly criticizing various aspects of the warriors series and writing alternate universes/rewrites, but why is it that the particular aspect of names is somehow sacrosanct even if the Erins genuinely messed it up, to the point where people think even slightly altering it makes an otherwise good fanfic unreadable? If you think Brambleclaw was poorly written because his arc was too one-dimensionally focused on being Tigerstar's son and want to change that in a rewrite story, fine, and if the name is part of what you want to change to accomplish that goal, that's also fine, there's nothing about names that makes then uniquely immune to changing to make the series better. I can't think of any single other fandom that plays around with names as much as the Warriors fandom and the reason for that is that above all else, you want your characters to be recognizable in a fanfic and unless you really have good reason for the name being changed(like an arc where Brambleclaw. wants to be more than just Tigerstar's shadow) then changing them just feels like pointless tweaks in the background that don't add anything. Imagine if in Harry Potter fanfics, Ron was randomly called Alex. Does it add anything? Is there any reason for it beyond a flippant thought? The Warrior cats fandom behaves differently than the Harry Potter fandom because of how the warrior name system works as compared to human names. Ron being named Ron instead of Alex doesn't create a plot hole in the same way that Yellowfang being born as Yellowkit does, and doesn't have the meaning attached to it that Brambleclaw/flower does (which is showing that Bramble has other family that form his identity, and that his whole character arc shouldn't be just based on him either being like his father or being not like his father). And sometimes people might change names because of a flaw in the series in the same way that other things might be changed - like how people take issue with how "claw" ending cats are almost always jerks or evil (for that matter Brambleclaw is an example of this, going from innocent Bramblepaw until still heroic but more unfriendly and easily tempted into murdering for power Brambleclaw) and are almost always toms to the point that Rowanpaw gets an accidental gender change when his warrior name ends being "claw", or "flower" being reserved for female cats, etc. This "problem" is exclusive to the Warriors series because the specific significance of the names is exclusive to the Warriors series.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 13:24:44 GMT -5
1. Kit being abused (usually for no reason). 2. High school stories. I don't read the stuff, but I do seem them popping up every now and then. 3. A fan of Warriors being sucked into the Warriors world and becoming a cat. I wouldn't mind see something like "human turned into a cat for killing a Clan cat" or something, at least something original.
That's about all I can think of.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Mar 2, 2019 11:00:41 GMT -5
I agree with what said on here, but to add to the issues with Redux and its copies, the problem with that is that it's so focused on making the cats act realistically that there's hardly anything relatable left. It claims to take inspiration from Watership Down, but the thing that made Warship Down so good was that not only were conflicts realistic, but they were relatable. Even though the protagonist were rabbits, the readers that obviously weren't could understand the tension they were going through. There was not only conflict, but emotion there to match. In Redux, it feels like there's almost no emotion and conflict is not relatable, so it becomes very dry.
Another one I was thinking of is LGBT added seemingly out of nowhere. I have nothing against LGBT in stories at all, but a lot of times it's done really badly and undermines whatever message the story was trying to tell.
For example, the Clans have been around for decades and haven't had a single LGBT character in their ranks ( or at least in public if one wants to count Tallstar and Ravenpaw). Now all of a sudden, the main character declares themselves LGBT and everyone just accepts it? That just is not feasible, and not very interesting either. To make matters worse, in many cases, those that put up even the slightest amount of understandable resistance are considered wrong. It's understandable if the resistance is actually unwarranted (such as resorting to violence or exclusion), but I've hardly ever seen stories like that.
Another thing is the main character with special powers. Again, I have nothing against this if it's done well. But a lot of times it's not, and it comes off as very jarring, especially with the low fantasy backdrop Warriors has. I understand that it was done in canon, but canon has a lot of issues with it. Fanfiction a lot of times doesn't try to correct these issues unfortunately.
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Post by dashingshadows on Mar 2, 2019 15:33:57 GMT -5
I don't understand why redux is so obsessed with making the queens and fathers kill/eat their kits It doesn't make sense in the setting, nor does it make sense considering that the characters are sapient...
I don't mind swearing, but it's often done in a really childish way, like they were trying to prove that they were warriors for grown-ups (because grown-ups swear!11!)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 16:12:17 GMT -5
I agree with what said on here, but to add to the issues with Redux and its copies, the problem with that is that it's so focused on making the cats act realistically that there's hardly anything relatable left. It claims to take inspiration from Watership Down, but the thing that made Warship Down so good was that not only were conflicts realistic, but they were relatable. Even though the protagonist were rabbits, the readers that obviously weren't could understand the tension they were going through. There was not only conflict, but emotion there to match. In Redux, it feels like there's almost no emotion and conflict is not relatable, so it becomes very dry. Another one I was thinking of is LGBT added seemingly out of nowhere. I have nothing against LGBT in stories at all, but a lot of times it's done really badly and undermines whatever message the story was trying to tell. For example, the Clans have been around for decades and haven't had a single LGBT character in their ranks ( or at least in public if one wants to count Tallstar and Ravenpaw). Now all of a sudden, the main character declares themselves LGBT and everyone just accepts it? That just is not feasible, and not very interesting either. To make matters worse, in many cases, those that put up even the slightest amount of understandable resistance are considered wrong. It's understandable if the resistance is actually unwarranted (such as resorting to violence or exclusion), but I've hardly ever seen stories like that. Another thing is the main character with special powers. Again, I have nothing against this if it's done well. But a lot of times it's not, and it comes off as very jarring, especially with the low fantasy backdrop Warriors has. I understand that it was done in canon, but canon has a lot of issues with it. Fanfiction a lot of times doesn't try to correct these issues unfortunately. The first reason you added is why I find Watership Down to be more enjoyable than Warriors. Not to mention that the rabbits use their traditional ideas of rabbits using tricks to get through their journey and defeat Woundwort. I'm not going to put in my social/political views here, but I can agree with the second part. Like if those who are reasonable when they don't immediately accept that cat (but aren't being violent or hateful at all), they get the cold shoulder treatment or get treated as if they're Tigerstar brought back to life. From all I've learned recently, it can kinda grind my gears. For the third reason, I can usually see more cats in magical powers in a series like Wings Of Fire or something.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Mar 2, 2019 18:31:28 GMT -5
I don't understand why redux is so obsessed with making the queens and fathers kill/eat their kits It doesn't make sense in the setting, nor does it make sense considering that the characters are sapient... I don't mind swearing, but it's often done in a really childish way, like they were trying to prove that they were warriors for grown-ups (because grown-ups swear!11!) i tried to get into the redux cause it seems to have some cool ideas but
theres just so much needless things added..... I dont get the lore behind the big cats? Does it ever come to play?
and o.. oh? Wait they not only have a queen/father e at the kits but MULTIPLE TIMES???
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 2, 2019 19:12:37 GMT -5
I don't mind swearing, but it's often done in a really childish way, like they were trying to prove that they were warriors for grown-ups (because grown-ups swear!11!) I was never into the whole "Inserting human swears into Warriors" thing. They have their own language to a degree, with words that make good replacements to the curse words we have and are even broad enough in some cases for multiple. Heck, in CT, Heathertail of all cats had quite a mouth on her at one point spewing multiple curses in one go (“Fox dung-eating mange-pelt!”) that could count as a massive swear and, yes, does make me want more variety when it came to swears in their language. Also had me wondering where she got that mouth of hers so it did it's job in that regard.It's one thing to joke around like with the whole "Let Firestar say the F word" thing, which never gets old, or have it in the lesser serious fics, but actually having them say it... it's just weird if used in a serious fic. There's really no reason tbh. If it's to show their writing is more for "MATUURE AUDIANZES!!!" then there are other ways you can do that without breaking their "language barrier" to do it yet not have to go too child-friendly.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Mar 3, 2019 11:56:47 GMT -5
Just thought up some other things that bother me.
- One is original mythology that writes itself into a corner or otherwise contradicts itself. To use Redux as an example, Starclan is considered ambiguous to whether or not they are real. But ambiguity creates a whole host of problems. One is that Starclan cannot take an active role, even implied for any reason because that would shatter the ambiguity. There are those that supposedly interpret Starclan's will and have a close connection with them, but there's no way of knowing if anything they do ( interpret signs, have visions) is real or not, because to say one way or the other would run the ambiguity. So an entire class of highly respected characters could actually be constant liars, and no one would ever know. Finally, it's unlikely that there would be a point of you from someone that has the position, or any explanation of it, because doing that would shatter the ambiguity. All of this would not be so bad if it was shown that the characters truly do believe in Starclan and see them as a guiding force ( such as Watership Down, at least up until the end when the existence of the afterlife is confirmed). But none of that happens.
- another one I don't like is if a large group of cats ( usually all the female cats in a clan) are prohibited from hunting and fighting. It's not functional, and wouldn't last long, because it severely weakens a Clan, and having a large amount of the members being dead weight is something they can't afford. Not to mention someone is bound to notice at some point, even if it's something every Clan does ( E.g. an outsider finding out or an attack from within).
Another thing that also annoys me is major biological accuracies ( things like messing up the taste of sweetness or what cats look like don't count). For example, I once read a story where someone had a particularly vicious medicine cat drug opponents and pull half their claws out after a battle. They were treated as if they were declawed, and this was apparently a horrible thing. However, a simple search, even through the books themselves, will show that claws that are torn out will simply grow back after some time. Declawing in real life actually doesn't work that way at all either, and a simple Internet search will explains that as well...
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Post by avidflame on Sept 22, 2019 20:35:34 GMT -5
My biggest pet peeves are probs: 1) When the author doesn’t use proper grammar 2) When kits are given the dumbest names, like Whiskerkit or something. I legit saw a kit named Preciouskit one time. 3) Shipping canon characters with stupid OC’s.
I don’t get why people write fanfics if they cannot spell, or even find the quotation marks for when a cat is speaking. Like, I’m so sick and tired of things like; ‘Firestar stared into Preciouscat’s eyes the purple orbs stared beautifully back into his green pools and then Leafpool came and said Firestar your cheating in sandstorm! And he said I don’t care and then he dragged preciouscat into the trees and mated with her’
...Yeah, there are so many things wrong in there, so if you think otherwise... idek...
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