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Post by Viperstrike on Aug 30, 2018 0:18:48 GMT -5
I just reread TFB again after several years, and wow do I hate Clear Sky.
I can't believe I used to like him. I mean, maybe I'll go back to liking him once I reread the rest of the DOTC books, but until then I hate him. I can't remember his "redemption", so at this point in time I can only remember the horrible things he's done. He makes me so angry. And none of his reasoning even makes sense.
"I didn't want to see another cat die like Fluttering Bird, so I just went ahead and did everything I could to make sure as many cats as possible died. And then I'm going to act like I did nothing wrong and get offended that no one is defending me against these spirit cats that are calling me out."
the audacity.
also, I'm sick of Gray Wing sticking up for him. I get he's your brother, but he's a terrible person. "cLeAR SKy cAnT bE gReEdy bECAusE hE GavE FlUTtERIng BiRd FoOD oNCE!1!1!1!" i get ur desperate to hang on to that image of your brother, but come on. he just killed half of your friends because he wanted to rule the entire forest and take everything away from everyone. that's greedy and selfish. stop making excuses for him. honestly gray wing is better than me because i would have killed clear sky and i wouldn't have even been sorry tbh
im just having a really bad day so clear sky's shenanigans are making me angry.
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Post by Fernstep on Aug 30, 2018 0:23:22 GMT -5
Immediate emotional to reaction to a book halfway through Clear Sky's character arc isn't exactly going to give you a complete picture of his character. I mean, it's the one good redemption arc in Warriors, it deserves to be read in full before you try to judge it. As for the specifics: - His logic on the food stuff doesn't justify his actions and it's not meant to. It's an explanation for his fear, which is what motivated him to take on extreme view on protection and the "greater good". It's not supposed to be sympathetic or an excuse for his actions, since quite obviously his actions at this point were literally evil. It's an explanation, not a justification. It gives you a glimpse into his head and shows you just how dark his thoughts became. His solution to an uncertain future was to attempt to remove that which he could not control.
- Gray Wing's compassion and willingness to see the best in others is a vital part of his character, as his arc revolves around his countless interactions with other cats and how he influenced all of them to reach the point where they could build the Clans. He wouldn't be who he is if he couldn't still believe that there was good in Clear Sky.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 0:26:26 GMT -5
You’re good, that’s all of us at one point- after a bad day a character’s bad deeds seem 100 times worse. For me it was Onestar, I’d throw my school bags across my house and think “STUPID Onestar betrayed his best friend who SAVED HIS REAR END TWICE only to get dumped for a bunch of xenophobic idiots, caused a massive battle after screaming a bunch of crap almost killing Squirrelflight RAWWWWW” But on a normal day I just think he kinda sucks
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Post by Viperstrike on Aug 30, 2018 0:27:26 GMT -5
Immediate emotional to reaction to a book halfway through Clear Sky's character arc isn't exactly going to give you a complete picture of his character. I mean, it's the one good redemption arc in Warriors, it deserves to be read in full before you try to judge it. I've already read the entire arc once before. I already know what Clear Sky does, but I just can't remember it clearly like I can this book because I just finished it so it's fresher in my mind.
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Post by Fernstep on Aug 30, 2018 0:30:40 GMT -5
Immediate emotional to reaction to a book halfway through Clear Sky's character arc isn't exactly going to give you a complete picture of his character. I mean, it's the one good redemption arc in Warriors, it deserves to be read in full before you try to judge it. I've already read the entire arc once before. I already know what Clear Sky does, but I just can't remember it clearly like I can this book because I just finished it so it's fresher in my mind. Yup, I get that. I'm just saying, y'know, read it again.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 0:32:21 GMT -5
But yeah sorry you had a rough day hopefully tomorrow’s better for ya
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Post by Viperstrike on Aug 30, 2018 0:40:24 GMT -5
even when i do reread it, i'm not sure anything he does will ever be enough to make me like him again. maybe i'll end up forgiving him. maybe. but he's worse than i remember. and it isn't so much the murder (while that is a huge thing) that's upsetting to me, but the way he talks to others. he's so cruel for no reason. the things he said were so disgusting. im really mad at him
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Post by Viperstrike on Aug 30, 2018 0:40:38 GMT -5
But yeah sorry you had a rough day hopefully tomorrow’s better for ya thank you
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Post by Fernstep on Aug 30, 2018 0:44:36 GMT -5
even when i do reread it, i'm not sure anything he does will ever be enough to make me like him again. maybe i'll end up forgiving him. maybe. but he's worse than i remember. and it isn't so much the murder (while that is a huge thing) that's upsetting to me, but the way he talks to others. he's so cruel for no reason. the things he said were so disgusting. im really mad at him No reason? No justified reason, yes, but not for no reason. Clear Sky makes everything personal. He doesn't hold back, and he doesn't hide what he thinks. He doesn't see disagreements as differences in opinion, he sees them as a challenge, and oftentimes that means a direct threat to his ability, supposedly, to lead the group to a safe future. He must destroy any shred of credibility they have, must thoroughly prove why he is right and they are wrong. Harsh, unmitigated cruelty is often the most direct means by which to do so. (I can't wait for someone to respond to this as if I'm trying to justify Clear Sky's actions. Explaining =/= justifying.)
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Post by mymerlincat on Aug 30, 2018 1:15:44 GMT -5
I’m ok with him but Mothflight’s Vision really ruined his charaxter
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 30, 2018 1:18:23 GMT -5
I've only struggled to read books twice before, over certain characters, one of them was Clear Sky, the other was Dovewing. In which I literally had to put my book aside, and avoid it for a while, then force, yeah force, myself to finish despite cringing through it so badly.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 30, 2018 1:28:21 GMT -5
I have ALWAYS hated Clear Sky. He doesn't deserve any of the good crap he gets...I still feel he never earned anything good in the end. It's just so unfair the good brother dies while the bad brother lives in his delusions that he's good now...like really?
To me, Clear Sky will never be redeemed in my eyes.
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 30, 2018 1:52:04 GMT -5
I used to hate him with a passion, but now I'm indifferent to the guy, I have a sorta love/hate relationship with him. But I feel like it was better for me in the end that I read MFV first then the DoTC arc, even if it lead to me not having any knowledge of the characters and being confused of some things, it let me realize Clear Sky suffered from a huge consistency issue with his personality and actions in the arc books and SE.
The worse instances that mess him up for me is Star Flower's babying of his actions and talking to him as if he's done nothing wrong, a good reason as to why I dispise her being with him, and also Quiet Rain(?? I think that's her name??) who, after giving Clear Sky a well-deserved scolding turns it around entirely as she dies and suddenly excuses and forgives his actions. I'm not fond of that at all. It was a half-assed excuse to forgive him by being all "These things happen lol" like... I feel it would've stung deeper for Clear Sky if she died after that happened and DIDN'T suddenly excuse him like that at the very last minute.
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Post by Tas on Aug 30, 2018 5:50:22 GMT -5
Clear Sky's cool. Warriors did a good job with him. From an (as) objective (as I can be) point of view, Clear Sky is a good character.
Nothing wrong with disliking his actions though, his actions warrant dislike.
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firestar101
My body is made up of 50% root beer and 50% Lipton Green tea.
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Post by firestar101 on Aug 31, 2018 12:47:56 GMT -5
I never liked Clear Sky either, he has serious personal issues that prevent him from being at all likable. I havn't read DOTC in a while but I don't really remember a redemption of any substance. From what I remember he just just stopped being a total ass. Yet still remained combative and aggressive in all things. I find it hard to forgive all the bad decisions he made and all the moronic bloodletting he caused.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 14:15:15 GMT -5
He's an interesting character, partially one of the Erins' better-written ones. This is why Dawn of the Clans was always the best arc for me. It really benefits from a fresh start and cast. The modern arc suffer because of their need to keep old characters, even if they have no purpose anymore, allow the cast to get overcrowded and hog the spotlight from new characters that desperately need it.
But my god- If Clear Sky wasn't a Founder or PoV, he would be going to the Dark Forest no question with the amount of unnecessarily battles and deaths he caused. Terrible leader and personal life. Including: Abandoning his injured brother for dead, fraught his other brother, murder serval cats personally, indirectly causing many more, impregnated Storm without much regard for her or their litter and abandoned his son. Finally only after his 3rd mate/litter did he start to take it seriously, but still not allowing Thunder into his life. Not forgetting the time after he killed Misty and found her orphaned kits, he suggests killing them.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 31, 2018 14:17:38 GMT -5
If Clear Sky wasn't a Founder or PoV, he would be going to the Dark Forest no question with the amount of unnecessarily battles and deaths he caused. Terrible leader and personal life. Including: Abandoning his injured brother for dead, fraught his other brother, murder serval cats personally, indirectly causing many more, impregnated Storm without much regard for her or their litter and abandoned his son. Finally only after his 3rd mate/litter did he start to take it seriously, but still not allowing Thunder into his life. Not forgetting the time after he killed Misty and found her orphaned kits, he suggests killing them. i agree 100%. Clear Sky should have been the founder of the dark forest instead...i think he should have died after tall shadow, so shadowstar would still be the first founder to die (as told by old field guides), and she'd be the first leader in starclan....meanwhile clear sky should have died next and be the first to go to the dark forest for his crimes.
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