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Post by EthanTheAnnus on Sept 21, 2017 0:36:17 GMT -5
So, uh, well, I personally love Crowfeather to pieces, he and Bramblestar and Alderheart are my favourite characters. I'm also really excited for his se. i think it will probably cover his feelings towards nightcloud and leafpool. Maybe something about Breezepelt? I dunno. Some Feathertail action? Here's a longer explanation, so if you don't bother reading this, i won't argue against any of your arguments, so please either just state your opinion and prediction without starting an argument or read this full explanation.
So, anyway...
I love Crowfeather. First, I think he's a pretty awesome looking character. Second, he really doesn't need all this crap dumped on him.
I mean, look at it logically.
If someone you loved with all your heart, who you knew loved you back, died, saving you, wouldn't you be crushed, heartbroken and feel really guilty?
For Crowfeather, that person, or cat, persay, was Feathertail. She saw beneath his grouchy exterior and into his heart, and she died saving them all and Crowfeather felt guilty. Heck, he even chose his warrior name, Crowfeather, after Feathertail!
Ok, she was from another Clan, so it was wrong, but seriously, how many other cats have had forbidden romances and they don't get shit?
Bluestar, Yellowfang, Oakheart, Raggedstar and, heck, even Leafpool doesn't get that much hate.
Seriously, what's wrong with people?
Ok, yeah, he had forbidden romances twice, but so what?
Yellowfang gave BIRTH to BR0KENSTAR of all cats. Bluestar lied to her ENTIRE CLAN. Oakheart lied too, Raggedstar lied too and Leafpool not only lied to the Clan, but made SQUIRRELFLIGHT lie too, so that gave Squirrelflight a bad rap in the Clan.
Crowfeather's first love died before anything could even go down between them, too, so shut up.
He genuinely loved Leafpool, but when she abandoned him for her Clan, he was left heartbroken again, so he decided to shut her right out and he took a new mate, Nightcloud, to prove his loyalty. He didn't really want kits, since he was still sour over Leafpool and still sad about Feathertail, so of course he ignored Breezekit.
Ok, that in itself was a bad choice, since Breezepelt ended up turning out bad, but he was hurting.
All in all, I reckon Crowfeather had good reason for what he did. He was always grieving over ruined love and was constantly in pain because of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 0:46:54 GMT -5
Crowfeather is heavily disliked in the fandom because of the way he treated his son. He neglected him, hardly giving him the attention he needed. Crowfeather also used Nightcloud, and wasn't the greatest with her, either.
By the way, Leafpool is actually highly disliked because of this. Can't say much for Bluestar or Yellowfang, though.
This is pretty much why people dislike Crowfeather, though. He's not a good parent, and only used his family to gain reputation. I disagree with a lot of the haters myself, but I understand why he isn't a popular character.
Also, if he genuinely loved Leafpool, then why did he say she meant nothing to him? Why would he reject his kits instead of accepting them? There is nothing wrong with strongly disliking a cat who has treated others terribly. I actually felt sorry for Leafpool often enough, when she was hurt by him. He was even selfish at one point, saying that loving him wasn't "enough", because she chose her clan over him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 0:51:57 GMT -5
Losing someone you love is NOT an excuse for terrible parenting. Crowfeather had a son to raise and he lost his chance. He even said in TLH that he didn't regret anything, so it's clear he doesn't care that he hurt his family. He messed up, and I honestly don't think he deserves to be deputy.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 21, 2017 0:59:32 GMT -5
I don't have much of an opinion on Crowfeather himself, but I do like CrowxLeaf if only because of the drama it caused. That said, yes he was awkward around Breezepelt for a reason and Nightcloud isn't really that great of a parent either, but just because he was hurting doesn't excuse his poor parenting skills.
He acknowledges in TLH that he was wrong in how he treated Breezepelt, but he should've realized this sooner. He seems to at least care about Breezepelt, but even then he has a funny way of showing it sometimes.
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Post by EthanTheAnnus on Sept 21, 2017 1:04:51 GMT -5
Aqua yeah, you've got a point. But I still love him, tbh. I mean, every character has flaws, some are just so small that they are overlooked and people hate it when major flaws pop up in characters.
@persephone yeah, I'm glad he's started caring for Breezepelt now.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 21, 2017 1:14:46 GMT -5
@aquathepiplup Just going to play a bit of Devil's Advocate here for a bit, but why would Crowfeather accept his kits when he knew nothing about them until he was told long after he broke up with Leafpool? He told Leafpool that she meant nothing to him at a Gathering, with Nightcloud and Breezepelt right next to him.
I may not agree with Crowfeather's actions, but it makes sense why he would reject them the way he did, especially after spending so much time trying to be loyal to WindClan since returning. He didn't acknowledge Leafpool's kits as his because he couldn't.
As for saying he didn't regret anything, I always got the feeling that he was referring to his relationship with Leafpool and being proud of his ThunderClan kits, especially since right before he says that, he tells Leafpool that their relationship was never meant to be in response to her saying, says to him, “Perhaps if we’d stayed together, things would be different.”
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 21, 2017 1:27:02 GMT -5
@persephone yeah, I'm glad he's started caring for Breezepelt now. Crowfeather always seemed to care about Breezepelt, like how he was worried about him in The Sight after he and Lionpaw nearly suffocate and tried to help Nightcloud carry him afterwards, but she wouldn't let him. Then there was Outcast, where he would occasionally scold Breezepaw whenever he was being rude or reckless, and then saved his life later on. The problem with Crowfeather's parenting is that he would either be a little to harsh in the eyes of some, or just distant in general.
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Post by snowfoot on Sept 21, 2017 2:11:00 GMT -5
Everyones making some really good points here, I seriously hope this new SE covers the period of time in which Crowfeather is trying to prove his loyalty to Windclan, but I also hope it doesnt glorify/try to fix his actions towards Nightcloud and Breezepelt. I want to see Crowfeather flaws and all, but I want it to be treated well. If they give us some insight into what was going on in Crowfeathers head over this period of time we might actually get a really interesting SE.
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Sept 21, 2017 7:34:38 GMT -5
You know, I can slightly understand the argument about Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather. I've made it clear in a few other threads of how much I dislike Crowfeather, but concerning the Three, his attitude kind of makes sense during Power of Three. In his eyes, he had marginally regained the Clan's respect, then that was butchered in front of him. For him, his kits really did come out of nowhere, and this time, he not only had WindClan scorning him, but all the Clans. Concerning his treatment of Leafpool, Breezepelt, and Nightcloud, however, he has no excuse. I've seen others cite that he cared for Breezepelt because of that one scene in The Sight, but we never saw any of that again -- and we've definitely had plenty of other scenes with the two of them interacting. One tiny acknowledgement of his son does not excuse several years of neglect after the fact.
Now, this attitude only made sense to me in in The Power of Three...in Omen of the Stars and A Vision of Shadows, he's honestly just a dirtbag. He's so cruel. I'm rereading the series, and I was lukewarm about him before, but reading them now that I'm older, I'm repeatedly hit by a wave of disgust at how he acts. Since a lot of scenes are so fresh in my mind, I can pull up several of them to show how disgusting he is -- not just to Breezepelt, mind you! They're a horrible counterpart to the few scenes we have where he's a "good" father, to him being an equally awful, neglectful one that really highlights how bad he is, personality-wise. The relationship he has with Breezepelt makes me think of those awful bullying kids at school who are acting out to get attention, but their dad couldn't care less and instead yells at them for stupid stuff that doesn't address the core issue.
The way he's been acting in AVOS does not bode well, either. We finally have a good leader for WindClan now that Harestar has taken over for Onestar, and Harestar is going to set them back badly by picking Crowfeather as his deputy. In a way, Crowfeather reminds me of Mudclaw, interestingly enough. At least with Mudclaw, he kept us on our toes, and while he may not had any redeeming qualities in the eyes of characters like Firestar and Brambleclaw, I liked him. It's just kind of frustrating that this was a perfect opportunity to pick another younger, unknown character to fill the spot as WindClan's deputy. We don't even need that much of a personality -- just like we didn't know much about Harestar until we got a chance to get to know him in AVOS before he rose to leadership. We know who Crowfeather is, and I'd gladly never read another word about him if the Erins would let the older characters go!
Oh, and I've also actually seen quite a bit of hate for Leafpool, and I'm not her biggest fan, either. The way she's gotten everything back irks me a lot, because she wasn't technically stripped of her title...she did it herself before Firestar could punish her, and there was a lot of moping while everyone around her (except Lionblaze and Jayfeather) cooed, "Isn't not being medicine cat anymore punishment enough?" She sort of did a self-imposed exile, in a way. I don't understand why the Erins ruined that by not having her decide to be content as a warrior and do her best to serve her Clan. Instead, they made her medicine cat again needlessly...it's kinda like with Brambleclaw, how he became deputy instead of vowing to be the best warrior he could, which would have made for a much more interesting arc rather than getting rewarded for totally not killing Firestar (it's what any loyal cat does, so not sure why Brambleclaw gets praise. Plus, he hesitated, not to mention the time spent in the Dark Forest, actively thinking of ways to murder Firestar lol what did he think Tigerstar and Hawkfrost were talking about? Giving Firestar a hug?)
There have been a lot of criticism for Bluestar and Yellowfang, too -- Bluestar, because she was always so harsh on Thistleclaw and Snowfur getting together, even though she was having a forbidden romance and literally breaking the code even as she treated them awfully. She really wasn't all that great of a sister. In Yellowfang's case, she was a massive friggen hypocrite when she told Jayfeather that Leafpool should suck it up (after Leafpool stopped being medicine cat) and she said something about how there were fitting consequences to Leafpool's actions...like, Yellowfang is the last cat who should judge anyone, and yet she's thrown a lot of hypocrisy and holier-than-thou around since she got to StarClan. She gave birth to one of the worst cats ever, but I guess that's all dirt under the rug now, according to her. As for Raggedstar...aha. He's a terrible dad and everyone talks about that! Arguably, he was pretty abusive to Yellowfang, and on the same par as Nightcloud when it came to being a father to Brokenstar, what with praising Brokenstar's every little sneeze or wave of the tail. Neither Yellowfang nor Bluestar (or those other cats) are off the hook at all, so I'm not sure where that idea came from.
Sorry if I sound aggressive here, by the way! I don't mean to. It's early here, and I haven't had my coffee yet.
Edit: Oh my gosh this is what I get for writing before getting coffee...a weird rambling mess
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 21, 2017 7:37:58 GMT -5
I just hope the Erins don't play him off as innocent tm, like there's no way to spin everything he's done just because it's from his POV. His relationship issues with Leafpool in the past is no excuse to how he treated Breezepelt and Nightcloud tbh. Also just when I'm finally starting to like Leafpool again, the Erins have to bring this junk back into the plot??? Like I'm pretty sure I don't want to be reminded of why I hated her in the first place, again.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 21, 2017 7:43:20 GMT -5
I'm actually more interested to see Nightcloud's reaction to Breezepelt and his actions at the end of TLH and into DWS. Post the final war, and into BrS, Breezepelt and Crowfeather seem closer? I guess if you consider them being on the same patrols more, I don't know.
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Post by whiteflight on Sept 21, 2017 8:24:52 GMT -5
I hope it's a good SE that can bring me back to reading warriors again. I quit after omen of the stars and read only a little bit of Dawn of the clans. AvoS I might start reading it but I feel like it might make me hate warriors again because some how Onestar is Darktail's father, and Needletail gets me annoyed on how she acts when she was an apprentice. And 100% I am not going to read Tigerhearts SE. So I'll just wait until there's a warrior book that can bring me back into warriors.
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Post by gonxkillua on Sept 21, 2017 9:45:16 GMT -5
I like Crowfeather but I can completely understand why many hate him.While his treatment of his Thuderclan family makes sense, his treatment of his Windclan family is cruel and unnecessary l. I like him because he feels like he's one of the only somewhat complex characters in warriors.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 12:19:32 GMT -5
I just hope the Erins don't play him off as innocent tm, like there's no way to spin everything he's done just because it's from his POV. His relationship issues with Leafpool in the past is no excuse to how he treated Breezepelt and Nightcloud tbh. Also just when I'm finally starting to like Leafpool again, the Erins have to bring this junk back into the plot??? Like I'm pretty sure I don't want to be reminded of why I hated her in the first place, again. Just ignore this book. Don't let it ruin Leafpool for you. I learned that the hard way about TS when they ruined Dovewing
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Post by Lady of the Emblem on Sept 21, 2017 12:55:31 GMT -5
I just hope the Erins don't play him off as innocent tm, like there's no way to spin everything he's done just because it's from his POV. His relationship issues with Leafpool in the past is no excuse to how he treated Breezepelt and Nightcloud tbh. Also just when I'm finally starting to like Leafpool again, the Erins have to bring this junk back into the plot??? Like I'm pretty sure I don't want to be reminded of why I hated her in the first place, again. Just ignore this book. Don't let it ruin Leafpool for you. I learned that the hard way about TS when they ruined Dovewing Even though I love Leafpool, I'll still be reading this SE because it actually interests me, unlike with TS...And I agree about Dovewing...That SE and the whole DovexTiger ship itself just ruined EVERYTHING: dovewing's character, her development, morals, etc. It's disgusting what the erins do to their characters...
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 21, 2017 13:14:48 GMT -5
They ruined Leafpool long ago. I don't find much redeeming about her.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 21, 2017 19:32:56 GMT -5
literally gonna read this book 99 percent in hopes of seeing Breezepelt and Heathertail and their daughters, and Harestar. Everything else is meh.
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Post by Darkfang ☾ on Sept 22, 2017 11:21:18 GMT -5
I'm actually pretty excited for this. Crowfeather is a very interesting character and i'm looking forward to seeing his POV. i'm hoping we'll see more of his relationship with Nightcloud and Breezepelt.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 12:19:04 GMT -5
I am just hoping this doesn't suck like Hawking's Journey.
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Post by EthanTheAnnus on Sept 24, 2017 1:01:19 GMT -5
@persephone yeah, I'm glad he's started caring for Breezepelt now. Crowfeather always seemed to care about Breezepelt, like how he was worried about him in The Sight after he and Lionpaw nearly suffocate and tried to help Nightcloud carry him afterwards, but she wouldn't let him. Then there was Outcast, where he would occasionally scold Breezepaw whenever he was being rude or reckless, and then saved his life later on. The problem with Crowfeather's parenting is that he would either be a little to harsh in the eyes of some, or just distant in general. I think the main problem was the fact that he wasn't always there for Breezepelt, if you know what I mean?
Also, he only took Nightcloud as a mate to prove his loyalty, not out of love, so he neglected both her and his son quite a lot.
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Post by EthanTheAnnus on Sept 24, 2017 1:04:47 GMT -5
I'm actually pretty excited for this. Crowfeather is a very interesting character and i'm looking forward to seeing his POV. i'm hoping we'll see more of his relationship with Nightcloud and Breezepelt. I'm actually hoping for some kind of plot twist where we see him trying to be a good mate and father, but because Nightcloud knows he only became her mate to prove his loyalty, she pushes him away and teaches Breezepelt to hate him. It would be an interesting concept. But, then again, I love Crowfeather just as he is.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 24, 2017 1:17:47 GMT -5
Crowfeather always seemed to care about Breezepelt, like how he was worried about him in The Sight after he and Lionpaw nearly suffocate and tried to help Nightcloud carry him afterwards, but she wouldn't let him. Then there was Outcast, where he would occasionally scold Breezepaw whenever he was being rude or reckless, and then saved his life later on. The problem with Crowfeather's parenting is that he would either be a little to harsh in the eyes of some, or just distant in general. I think the main problem was the fact that he wasn't always there for Breezepelt, if you know what I mean?
Also, he only took Nightcloud as a mate to prove his loyalty, not out of love, so he neglected both her and his son quite a lot.That's pretty much what I'm trying to say.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 24, 2017 2:21:46 GMT -5
I'm actually pretty excited for this. Crowfeather is a very interesting character and i'm looking forward to seeing his POV. i'm hoping we'll see more of his relationship with Nightcloud and Breezepelt. I'm actually hoping for some kind of plot twist where we see him trying to be a good mate and father, but because Nightcloud knows he only became her mate to prove his loyalty, she pushes him away and teaches Breezepelt to hate him. It would be an interesting concept. But, then again, I love Crowfeather just as he is.But didn't the Erins already said along the lines that Nightcloud loved Crowfeather? My personally opinion is that maybe she initially liked him, thinking he liked her, and was hoping he'd grow into his role as a proper mate and father. But after realizing he was just using her, reference to the scenes where she sensed tension between him and Leafpool, she became bitter. She was at least hoping he'd treat their son right, but he didn't and neglected him instead, which was probably why she and him argued a lot. There's even a scene where she defend Breezepelt from him, over him doubting him so much.
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Post by Lady of the Emblem on Sept 24, 2017 2:24:52 GMT -5
I'm actually hoping for some kind of plot twist where we see him trying to be a good mate and father, but because Nightcloud knows he only became her mate to prove his loyalty, she pushes him away and teaches Breezepelt to hate him. It would be an interesting concept. But, then again, I love Crowfeather just as he is. But didn't the Erins already said along the lines that Nightcloud loved Crowfeather? My personally opinion is that maybe she initially liked him, thinking he liked her, and was hoping he'd grow into his role as a proper mate and father. But after realizing he was just using her, reference to the scenes where she sensed tension between him and Leafpool, she became bitter. She was at least hoping he'd treat their son right, but he didn't and neglected him instead, which was probably why she and him argued a lot. There's even a scene where she defend Breezepelt from him, over him doubting him so much. I hate the idea that Nightcloud EVER liked him. It makes no logical sense...Crowfeather JUST comes back from being with Leafpool and some time later, he instantly moves on and asks Nightcloud to be with him...? How is Nightcloud so stupid to believe he actually liked her after leaving his clan for another clan's medicine cat...? And how did ANYONE in windclan believe crowxnight anyways? the erins are just dumb if they ever wanted to imply nightcloud had any feelings for crowfeather...it makes sense for nightcloud to use crowfeather to have kits since she was getting a bit old and would be desperate, and crowfeather uses her for loyalty and clan image purposes.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 24, 2017 6:08:11 GMT -5
But didn't the Erins already said along the lines that Nightcloud loved Crowfeather? My personally opinion is that maybe she initially liked him, thinking he liked her, and was hoping he'd grow into his role as a proper mate and father. But after realizing he was just using her, reference to the scenes where she sensed tension between him and Leafpool, she became bitter. She was at least hoping he'd treat their son right, but he didn't and neglected him instead, which was probably why she and him argued a lot. There's even a scene where she defend Breezepelt from him, over him doubting him so much. I hate the idea that Nightcloud EVER liked him. It makes no logical sense...Crowfeather JUST comes back from being with Leafpool and some time later, he instantly moves on and asks Nightcloud to be with him...? How is Nightcloud so stupid to believe he actually liked her after leaving his clan for another clan's medicine cat...? And how did ANYONE in windclan believe crowxnight anyways? the erins are just dumb if they ever wanted to imply nightcloud had any feelings for crowfeather...it makes sense for nightcloud to use crowfeather to have kits since she was getting a bit old and would be desperate, and crowfeather uses her for loyalty and clan image purposes. Well think of it like this. Nightcloud could have been "recipromantic". Someone who who experiences romantic attraction only after they feel that the other person is romantically attracted to them first. Considering Crowfeather is the one that asked her to be his mate, she possibly could have developed feelings for him afterward, thinking he felt the same way. But after realizing he didn't, and he was just using her, she became bitter, and only stayed with him because they had a child together. There's a lot of realistic marriages that are like this in the world, sadly. But I do agree with you, in why the Erins wrote the books like all of WindClan suddenly had amnesia, lol.
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Bisexual
#64C7FF
Name Colour
finland
Porgs are love
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Post by finland on Sept 24, 2017 6:23:51 GMT -5
Crowfeather's trail?
I was on vacation and didn't have internet connection. I'm very confused right now.
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Post by kinkajou on Sept 24, 2017 11:07:36 GMT -5
I'm actually pretty excited for this. Crowfeather is a very interesting character and i'm looking forward to seeing his POV. i'm hoping we'll see more of his relationship with Nightcloud and Breezepelt. I'm actually hoping for some kind of plot twist where we see him trying to be a good mate and father, but because Nightcloud knows he only became her mate to prove his loyalty, she pushes him away and teaches Breezepelt to hate him. It would be an interesting concept. But, then again, I love Crowfeather just as he is.Oh gosh i hope not I'm tired of them trying to excuse crowfeather
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Post by Amber on Sept 24, 2017 11:19:19 GMT -5
Crowfeather's trail? I was on vacation and didn't have internet connection. I'm very confused right now. It's the next SE that's coming out next year. It will be written by Cherith.
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Post by Lightflame on Sept 24, 2017 12:10:44 GMT -5
We find out that Breezepelt is actually Mudclaw's son. Nightcloud was worried about what the Clan would think, so Crowfeather offered to pretend to be the father.
Meanwhile, WindClan faces a new threat. It's, um, warthogs.
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Pastybih
step on my jordans n ill dance on yo grave ya hear
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Post by Pastybih on Sept 24, 2017 15:23:11 GMT -5
Crowfeather's trail? I was on vacation and didn't have internet connection. I'm very confused right now. It's the next SE that's coming out next year. It will be written by Cherith. If it's written by Cherith then I know it'll be good. Cherith seems to be the best author imo.
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