#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 24, 2017 22:42:13 GMT -5
The Erins stated that they've been trying to avoid pairing up cats who are related, and this was why they got rid of Foxleap x Rosepetal because Foxleap is Rosepetal's uncle.
A few books later, Foxleap is implied to have had a crush on Dovewing, and Kate initially thought he would make a good mate for Ivypool, both of whom are also his nieces.
There was an entire prophecy focusing on the Three being related, yet Fernsong is pretty much all but confirmed to be Ivypool's future mate.
Hawkwing and Pebbleshine are first cousins, as are Lilyheart and Snowbush.
And it's not like with, say, Graystripe's parents where it isn't stated in the books and you actually have to search it up yourself—the books make it clear that Sparrowpelt (Pebbleshine's father) and Cherrytail (Hawkwing's mother) are littermates, and the same goes for Brackenfur (Lilyheart's father) and Brightheart (Snowbush's mother).
Whether it was a mistake or not, Bramblestar thought that Rosepetal and Berrynose were mates, even though they were half-siblings.
I guess a pairing between an uncle and niece would be worse than one between first cousins and Fernsong and Ivypool aren't too closely related anyway, but the fact that the Erins stated that they were trying to avoid inbreeding (even though it's inevitable, given the first code), and then kind of go back on it by pairing up cousins kind of baffles me.
Other than that though, I'm not even against these pairings. I even find FernxIvy to be cute.
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Post by Basement Cat on Jul 24, 2017 22:46:26 GMT -5
Blame bad writing and consistencies. I doubt they check their own books for inconsistencies, and have editors do it for them.
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Post by Alpha on Jul 25, 2017 0:24:08 GMT -5
Fernsong and Ivypool are actually pretty far apart in Warriors standards by the way(their common ancestors were Jake and Nutmeg, which was about three generations ago?). Dovewing and Ivypool aren't really that closely related to Lionblaze, Jayfeather, and Hollyleaf.
I blame the schedule and how they have more important things to focus on than making sure there's minimal incest, like writing the books.
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Post by Katanaheart on Jul 25, 2017 0:34:14 GMT -5
Ivypool is the great granddaughter of Princess.
Fernsong is Firestar's great grandson.
They'd have more common ancestry than Nutmeg and Jake.
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Post by Kibui on Jul 25, 2017 5:17:49 GMT -5
Blame bad writing and consistencies. I doubt they check their own books for inconsistencies, and have editors do it for them. I think the problem is mostly the editors tbh. According to Kate on her blog she told the editors more than once about the mistakes of AVoS' allegiances (such as Lakeheart's 4 non-existent kits and Beetlewhisker) but they don't seem to react to that. Granted, we don't know if Kate has noticed the mistakes herself (which, tbh I doubt), but at least she tried to fix them after other pointed them out for her From what it seems like the real problem, at least as far as I can tell, is more that the editors don't give Kate/Cherith all the information revealed in the previous book they would need hence the many inconsistencies and mistakes. That is not to to say Kate and Cherith don't make mistakes on their own, of course, even if they had every bit of information, but I doubt Beetlewhisker would be in the allegiances of TaS and/or SS if the editors had listened to Kate
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Post by lollycat on Jul 25, 2017 7:18:01 GMT -5
The real problem is that there are no outside cats coming into the clan. This causes inbreeding and a major fault in the clan system and the rules they live by. In the clans all of the cats in a clan are related to each other.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Jul 25, 2017 8:59:04 GMT -5
Ivypool is the great granddaughter of Princess. Fernsong is Firestar's great grandson. They'd have more common ancestry than Nutmeg and Jake. Just Robinwing and Fuzzypelt. They are hardly related at all.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Jul 25, 2017 9:03:04 GMT -5
I believe the case of FoxxRose being scrapped was because someone made a stink about them being related. This is far from the first time the fans have bullied the Erins into changing the story.
As a general rule, I'd say first cousins are fine. UnclexNiece or AuntxNephew should be limited as much as possible, but not always avoidable. At this point, it is almost impossible to have a pairing without incest on some level. As long as they are aware of relations and limit the closer pairings like uncle and niece, I think it's perfectly fine.
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Post by Tas on Jul 25, 2017 9:29:02 GMT -5
You can't really compare with SkyClan, though. When Firestar brought them back together, there were only like 15 cats ... so a little inbreeding is excusable.
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Post by Lightflame on Jul 25, 2017 13:26:22 GMT -5
Hawkwing and Pebbleshine are first cousins. See, I just assume that Hawkwing hooked up with his cousin because he was desperate for bloodline kits.
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Post by Jei-Dinofelini on Jul 25, 2017 16:49:45 GMT -5
What BC said. Mostly blame the bad writing and lack of revision of what is written thoroughly.
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Post by iniquitous ecstasy on Jul 27, 2017 9:39:34 GMT -5
At this point every cat in every Clan is pretty much related. It would have been nice had they taken more care to develop early familial relations (at least in ThunderClan)
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Post by Jei-Dinofelini on Jul 27, 2017 16:07:43 GMT -5
No wonder why ThunderClan now accepts outsiders They have realised that they have a problem as everyone is related to eachother XD
The others are still in denial and refuse to accept it.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 27, 2017 16:29:17 GMT -5
Guys, my point isn't that there's incest in the series—given the first code, that's inevitable and I know that Fernsong and Ivypool aren't that closely related. I even acknowledge this in the first post. My point is that there's inbreeding in the series while other inbred pairings are getting scrapped, and even then I also point out that I suppose a pairing like Foxleap x Rosepetal would probably be worse than a pairing like Snowbush x Lilyheart.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Jul 27, 2017 17:26:36 GMT -5
See if they're cousins it's not that weird in regards to Warriors. I'm fine with them being mates if they're cousins. I would be really uncomfortable if they're aunt/uncle/niece/nephew/sister/brother/mother/father. I feel like it's impossible to svoid at this rate, and honestly them being cousins doesn't matter that much.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 27, 2017 22:14:23 GMT -5
I actually never minded any of the Foxleap pairings >> FoxDove, FoxIvy, or FoxRose. Just as long as he didn't die...
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Post by Tas on Jul 28, 2017 18:51:08 GMT -5
Also Ferncloud was Dustpelt's apprentice.
Kind of like the whole Blossom-Thorn thing:
THEY'RE CATS
who cares if there's inbreeding?? that is a normal cat thing that cats don't care about...!!
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 28, 2017 19:05:38 GMT -5
Also Ferncloud was Dustpelt's apprentice. Kind of like the whole Blossom-Thorn thing: THEY'RE CATS who cares if there's inbreeding?? that is a normal cat thing that cats don't care about...!! That's kind of the point I was trying to make here. Also, Ferncloud wasn't Dustpelt's apprentice, although he did want to mentor her after Darkstripe was exiled. Her mentor after that was Longtail, while Dustpelt mentored Ashfur.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 28, 2017 22:03:33 GMT -5
Personally I don't like Dust x Fern cause it came off as creepy and Dust trying to groom Fern in the beginning, idk.
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Post by Ligerfrost on Aug 2, 2017 12:30:25 GMT -5
Ivypool is the great granddaughter of Princess. Fernsong is Firestar's great grandson. They'd have more common ancestry than Nutmeg and Jake. Just Robinwing and Fuzzypelt. They are hardly related at all.
Actually the closest common ancestor between Ivypool and Fernsong is Brindleface. Brindleface was the mother of Sandstorm and Ferncloud Sandstorm was Leafpool's mother, Leafpool was Lionblaze's mother and Lionblaze is Fernsong's father. Ferncloud was Birchfall's mother and Birchfall is Ivypool's father. That's the closest I've found. But Lionblaze, Cinderheart, Whitewing and Birchface have multiple connections between them.
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Post by Ligerfrost on Aug 2, 2017 12:35:17 GMT -5
I agree it's stupid. The way the Clans are designed pretty much guarantees inbreeding. Since relations with other Clans is forbidden and Outsiders aren't welcome. As long as they aren't mating with littermates or parents at this point it shouldn't matter.
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