Bisexual
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Official Queen of Fan Clans
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ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 24, 2017 15:57:48 GMT -5
So..
I'm kinda hoping Needletail gets banished from ShadowClan if she lives. She kinda started all of this, she should be rightfully punished and I don't think keeping her in ShadowClan would help. Rowanstar should strip her of her name as well. Honestly, I don't think she should be redeemed. She is a bit more in a position to be redeemed compared to Breezepelt, but considering how many feel about Breezepelt, we should kinda be given this. I understand she's an interesting character for some, but I don't want her to end up good. I want her to end up being a decent villain, perhaps even overthrowing Darktail and leading the group herself.
As for Violetpaw, I wouldn't mind if she was redeemed, but I also think she should be punished along with Needle's followers. Perhaps demoted to a kit even in name while the others are demoted to apprentices in name as well. In fact, I wonder what ShadowClan will do when Rowanstar is back. Will StarClan punish them? Or will it just be fine and dandy again?
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Post by Moonblazer on Mar 24, 2017 16:21:00 GMT -5
You took the words right outta my mouth. I don't want Needletail redeemed.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Mar 24, 2017 18:32:42 GMT -5
I agree about Needletail.
However I don't agree about Violetpaw. She's young, and has been manipulated and brain-washed. A lot of this isn't her fault, and I don't think she's a horrible cat like everyone has been saying.
She's a victim of emotional manipulation. Needletail took advantage of her from a young age. No one else seemed to care for her but Needletail. Can you really blame Violetpaw for being the way she is right now? The only one she truly had was abruptly taken from her. So then Needletail comes in, and fills that void losing Twigpaw left. Of course Violetpaw, being as young as she is, is going to cling to whoever makes her feel wanted.
You have to remember that she's young yet, and has a lot of time to change. I don't think she's horrible, and I actually understand why she's the way she is right now.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 24, 2017 18:47:43 GMT -5
Yet she never left with Twigpaw when Twigpaw went back to ThunderClan. I can understand being manipulated, but she is also smart enough to know her sister cares for her. It'd make much more sense for Violetpaw to go back to ThunderClan. Besides, she does need to face some kind of punishment. Indirectly or directly. Those who were foolish enough to do what Violetpaw is doing have been punished one way or another.
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 24, 2017 19:04:21 GMT -5
I agree about Needletail. However I don't agree about Violetpaw. She's young, and has been manipulated and brain-washed. A lot of this isn't her fault, and I don't think she's a horrible cat like everyone has been saying. She's a victim of emotional manipulation. Needletail took advantage of her from a young age. No one else seemed to care for her but Needletail. Can you really blame Violetpaw for being the way she is right now? The only one she truly had was abruptly taken from her. So then Needletail comes in, and fills that void losing Twigpaw left. Of course Violetpaw, being as young as she is, is going to cling to whoever makes her feel wanted. You have to remember that she's young yet, and has a lot of time to change. I don't think she's horrible, and I actually understand why she's the way she is right now. THIS! So much this! Finally someone agrees with me about Violetpaw. She's not a bad cat and still clearly cares about her sister. She even hesitated in fighting Twigpaw and in TAS, she wanted to run away with her and defended her from Birchpaw. When Twigpaw refused, that right there was the breaking point for her and now the only cat she's close to is Needletail at least until she began spending so much time with Rain, which was partially why she left Darktail's group to go back to ShadowClan aside from how harsh it was—she didn't want to be alone. The relationship isn't really healthy for Violetpaw, and this is coming from someone who likes Needletail. Violetpaw was considered an outcast by her own Clanmates even as a kit and never seemed close to her Pinenose or her foster littermates either. Twigpaw on the other had love from several of her Clanmates, even if some of them gossiped about her. Enviorment matters. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me why things turned out the way they did between them. Both are still very young and have a lot of growing up to do. As for Needletail, I wouldn't mind if she was redeemed, but I also wouldn't mind if she stayed an antagonist either. It really could go either way, I just hope it's done right.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 19:29:51 GMT -5
Yet she never left with Twigpaw when Twigpaw went back to ThunderClan. I can understand being manipulated, but she is also smart enough to know her sister cares for her. It'd make much more sense for Violetpaw to go back to ThunderClan. Besides, she does need to face some kind of punishment. Indirectly or directly. Those who were foolish enough to do what Violetpaw is doing have been punished one way or another. It doesn't 'make sense' for Violetpaw to go to ThunderClan. Violetpaw has no friends in ThunderClan besides Twigpaw, and it's clear that since their separation she's become detached from her. She is much closer to Needletail, and she believes that Needletail cares for her too (whether this is true or not remains to be seen). I don't know what she needs to be punished for. In my opinion, she hasn't really done anything wrong. From what I've seen, the things that fans seem to dislike her for are -not caring about her biological parents -not caring about Twigpaw -leaving with Needletail to join the rogues and (spoilers for SS) attacking Twigpaw in the newest book's preview. I don't fault her for this because it was a battle and they were on different sides. Twigpaw was stupid for expecting anything different, especially after their last meeting where Needletail attacked her. If I'm leaving something out, feel free to correct me. I may have forgotten some events in Thunder and Shadow. I really think people just need to get over the fact that she has no strong ties to her family. She doesn't care about her parents because she never met them, she doesn't seem to like Twigpaw that much because they've been separated for so long that any bond she had with her has been broken. They are in different Clans. She put her loyalty to ShadowClan over her familial ties to Twigpaw, and I think that's the right thing to do. As for leaving with Needletail, who could really blame her? As I said before, Needletail is her only friend, and if I remember correctly, some ShadowClan cat told her no one wanted her around anyway as she was deciding who to go with. If I was 13 yrs old and I had to choose between living in a gang with my best friend and staying with adoptive family who didn't even like me, I'd choose my best friend. and not only that, once she saw how brutal the gang was, she left and went back to ShadowClan. Once the rogues had taken over, she had two options: stay with the cats who she had grown up with or leave for complete strangers. She's a young cat in a complicated situation, and as someone had pointed out before, she is being manipulated and brainwashed. I don't think she deserves to be punished for that.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Mar 24, 2017 22:48:02 GMT -5
I agree about Needletail. However I don't agree about Violetpaw. She's young, and has been manipulated and brain-washed. A lot of this isn't her fault, and I don't think she's a horrible cat like everyone has been saying. She's a victim of emotional manipulation. Needletail took advantage of her from a young age. No one else seemed to care for her but Needletail. Can you really blame Violetpaw for being the way she is right now? The only one she truly had was abruptly taken from her. So then Needletail comes in, and fills that void losing Twigpaw left. Of course Violetpaw, being as young as she is, is going to cling to whoever makes her feel wanted. You have to remember that she's young yet, and has a lot of time to change. I don't think she's horrible, and I actually understand why she's the way she is right now. Exactly was I was going to say!
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 25, 2017 0:23:44 GMT -5
Yet she never left with Twigpaw when Twigpaw went back to ThunderClan. I can understand being manipulated, but she is also smart enough to know her sister cares for her. It'd make much more sense for Violetpaw to go back to ThunderClan. Besides, she does need to face some kind of punishment. Indirectly or directly. Those who were foolish enough to do what Violetpaw is doing have been punished one way or another. It doesn't 'make sense' for Violetpaw to go to ThunderClan. Violetpaw has no friends in ThunderClan besides Twigpaw, and it's clear that since their separation she's become detached from her. She is much closer to Needletail, and she believes that Needletail cares for her too (whether this is true or not remains to be seen). I don't know what she needs to be punished for. In my opinion, she hasn't really done anything wrong. From what I've seen, the things that fans seem to dislike her for are -not caring about her biological parents -not caring about Twigpaw -leaving with Needletail to join the rogues and (spoilers for SS) attacking Twigpaw in the newest book's preview. I don't fault her for this because it was a battle and they were on different sides. Twigpaw was stupid for expecting anything different, especially after their last meeting where Needletail attacked her. If I'm leaving something out, feel free to correct me. I may have forgotten some events in Thunder and Shadow. I really think people just need to get over the fact that she has no strong ties to her family. She doesn't care about her parents because she never met them, she doesn't seem to like Twigpaw that much because they've been separated for so long that any bond she had with her has been broken. They are in different Clans. She put her loyalty to ShadowClan over her familial ties to Twigpaw, and I think that's the right thing to do. As for leaving with Needletail, who could really blame her? As I said before, Needletail is her only friend, and if I remember correctly, some ShadowClan cat told her no one wanted her around anyway as she was deciding who to go with. If I was 13 yrs old and I had to choose between living in a gang with my best friend and staying with adoptive family who didn't even like me, I'd choose my best friend. and not only that, once she saw how brutal the gang was, she left and went back to ShadowClan. Once the rogues had taken over, she had two options: stay with the cats who she had grown up with or leave for complete strangers. She's a young cat in a complicated situation, and as someone had pointed out before, she is being manipulated and brainwashed. I don't think she deserves to be punished for that. She does, though. She was disloyal to her Clan like other ShadowClan cats. It's quite convenient for someone to mention this and use it against someone like Ivypool, but don't apply it to other characters when they are in similar situations. Keep in mind, I also have said either directly or indirectly. Whether it be by Rowanstar or by karma. Heck, they could even all be forced to take another oath similar to the Dark Forest Trainees. Either way, she should be punished. She's a lot smarter than Twigpaw from what I've seen. She should know how to choose between right and wrong.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 25, 2017 16:06:38 GMT -5
Breezepelt should have been exiled after the DF battle, at that point he had no real redemption qualities. But now since he's a father with kits, and a mate, the Erins have the means to redeem him.
As where Needletail stands, she also has no redeeming qualities, plus she's mates with Rain most likely, a cat who's as bad as Darktail. So really I hope she gets banished as well.
I also find it quite strange that people will demonize Breezepelt, who's also an abuse victim, as well as Blossomfall, but suddenly people are coddling Violetpaw??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 16:18:50 GMT -5
I'm willing to give Violetpaw a couple more chances to turn her life around. I personally don't think what she's done so far is evidence enough to toss her into the oven just yet. We're yet to see her future reaction to finding out she's SkyClan-born/most likely eventually meeting her father and possibly her mother if she's still alive, and my guess that as Darktail's clan become more ruthless and unorganized (similar to Brokenstar's reign, the strongest rule, and the weak will soon be swiped under the carpet in no time) and we are yet to see Violetpaw's reaction to that. As time goes by the ShadowClan cats who are either less loyal or never really loyal to Darktail in the first place, and were just sick of Rowanstar, will start to get worried and Violetpaw might get sucked into that.
Basically I think there's far more opportunities in the future for Violetpaw to get out of her situation before she's gone too far. Can she get worse and worse, not get out of her situation, end up just like Needletail, and become unredeemable? Of course she can. But I think it's too early to tell.
Needletail on the other hand either has gone to far or has to do something really dramatic to make up for it.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 25, 2017 16:52:06 GMT -5
I don't think Violetpaw should be banished yet, but she should face some kind of punishment. I understand she is an abuse victim, but she has shown intelligence and had chances to get out. Instead of it, she played victim even further and even tried to be the abuser to Twigpaw. (From what I've seen/heard.) She probably will be, and I won't mind, but she should be punished like any other characters who have gone down similar paths.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 17:12:36 GMT -5
I personally think the authors will somehow redeem Needletail (I do not get why she would so easily side with someone that previously tried to kill her and her companions). From what I heard (never actually read thou), she was originally depicted sympathetically in the 1st novels in this new series. As a general rule, antagonistic characters that originally depicted sympathetically, will be redeemed somehow.
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