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Post by Splintercat on Feb 25, 2017 18:26:28 GMT -5
Good discussion topic eh
Political, but (hopefully) not divisive enough to start a fight, especially since most of us live in the US
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Feb 25, 2017 18:36:21 GMT -5
tbh I don't know a ton about the matter, so I'm not sure if my view holds much weight.
My gut instinct was glad that they split, but feel like it was for the wrong reasons (xenophobia rather than for reasonable economic or independent reasons).
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Post by 𝘨𝘰𝘭𝘥𝘦𝘯 𝘴𝘶𝘯 on Feb 25, 2017 18:52:37 GMT -5
so I'm Swedish (read: in the EU) and I grew up in the UK so I have nothing but strong views on the subject. I want to write an entire essay on the issue but it's late and it'll just wind me up so a sloppily written post will have to suffice.
firstly, can I just point out that when Scotland wanted independence a few years ago all anyone heard was 'oh but you'll lose all the privileges that we have like the eu' and then not half a decade later they just voted out. can't help but find that amusing in the worst way.
anyway, I think it was a bad idea. the debate was based entirely on xenophobia and they spoke very little about the actual economic implications, and when they did they didn't delve deep enough. it was too rushed, in my opinion. if they'd let it stretch out and let the debate go on for longer, I think they'd have gotten to some issues they didn't discuss but they never got the chance to focus on economics or political independence. leaving the EU in and of itself isn't necessarily bad, but a lot more thought and discussion should have gone into it first.
also, they opened the door for more and more countries to leave. both france and the netherlands have parties that are trying right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if more followed. my worst fear politically is the EU dissolving, especially right now when the European political climate is as it is. the EU is definitely problematic in its own ways and those issues need to be fixed, I won't deny that, but a divided Europe is far more dangerous than a union with far from perfect politics. Britain leaving marks the start of fighting that off for a lot of us. it was formed for a reason, and with that very reason gaining strength I can't help but feel as if that would be disastrous.
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Post by John 3:16 on Feb 25, 2017 19:04:28 GMT -5
i know from my father (an englishman who grew up in scotland) that he hated it and really didn't want it to split. idk too much about the subject, but as other people have said here that it was likely based on xenophobia. and trump backed it so yeah i don't really like it either, but my opinion's not too well educated.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 20:29:20 GMT -5
I don't really feel like I have the right to say much, but after a good amount of researching that it seems that xenophobia and fear aside, the U.K. never really was all on board with joining the E.U. in the first place, and they were quite reluctant. So if anything was going to go wrong, out of all the countries a part of the E.U., the U.K. were definitely going to be the first to jump ship out of panic. It was just a matter of time.
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Post by Yoshimi on Feb 25, 2017 20:49:40 GMT -5
The fact that the population of UK was so divisive over the issue is quite alarming, and should be alarming to the future Brexit government. At least they're able to make their own decisions without Brussels trying to force more EU down their throats regardless of opposition.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 21:02:02 GMT -5
i'm (mostly) an outsider as far as european politics goes, so take my opinion as a grain of salt.
the european union is flawed (which can be expected imo), and i can understand (from my limited viewpoint) why brexit was brought up in the first place and why other members would consider leaving it as well. however, i think the focus of both pro- and anti-brexiters was entirely misguided, as i think the discourse surrounding it should have been focused on the economics rather than on (perceived) social issues.
i am curious to see how things change in the uk over the next few years.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Feb 25, 2017 23:18:37 GMT -5
so I'm Swedish (read: in the EU) and I grew up in the UK so I have nothing but strong views on the subject. I want to write an entire essay on the issue but it's late and it'll just wind me up so a sloppily written post will have to suffice.
firstly, can I just point out that when Scotland wanted independence a few years ago all anyone heard was 'oh but you'll lose all the privileges that we have like the eu' and then not half a decade later they just voted out. can't help but find that amusing in the worst way.
anyway, I think it was a bad idea. the debate was based entirely on xenophobia and they spoke very little about the actual economic implications, and when they did they didn't delve deep enough. it was too rushed, in my opinion. if they'd let it stretch out and let the debate go on for longer, I think they'd have gotten to some issues they didn't discuss but they never got the chance to focus on economics or political independence. leaving the EU in and of itself isn't necessarily bad, but a lot more thought and discussion should have gone into it first.
also, they opened the door for more and more countries to leave. both france and the netherlands have parties that are trying right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if more followed. my worst fear politically is the EU dissolving, especially right now when the European political climate is as it is. the EU is definitely problematic in its own ways and those issues need to be fixed, I won't deny that, but a divided Europe is far more dangerous than a union with far from perfect politics. Britain leaving marks the start of fighting that off for a lot of us. it was formed for a reason, and with that very reason gaining strength I can't help but feel as if that would be disastrous. this was very enlightening I agree that everyone would have fared better if they'd been given more time to mull it over, considering the rippling consequences. the EU is salvageable. it's just a question if someone (*cough*Germany*cough*) is willing to do so. I'm hoping Brexit will be a wake-up call.I don't really feel like I have the right to say much, but after a good amount of researching that it seems that xenophobia and fear aside, the U.K. never really was all on board with joining the E.U. in the first place, and they were quite reluctant. So if anything was going to go wrong, out of all the countries a part of the E.U., the U.K. were definitely going to be the first to jump ship out of panic. It was just a matter of time. The U.K. entered the EU reluctantly, and with a lot of conditions favoring them. Such as keeping the pound, which was a smart move.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 4:35:06 GMT -5
i live in the UK and i don't know much about it. im only sad that we are leaving the EU because i like being in the EU lol
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Post by Felix on Feb 26, 2017 4:55:25 GMT -5
It's very much a step into the unknown. Continuing to live in Britain is... Uncertain because nobody wants to give any answer. I doubt that they will remove EU citizens from the country, but it is still something in the back of my mind.
I don't think Britain is going to get a good deal out of it. But it's unlikely that the country will fail, they still have a lot of say in the world. Ties with America will undoubtedly increase from this.
Lots of people didn't know what they were voting for. As far as the vote went, it was voting for a person, not an event. It felt like a vote for David Cameron or a vote for Boris Johnson. Neither argued a point and it is unclear if Boris was pro EU after all. Not a good situation to be in, but it's the same problem with a general election. It's made out to be a vote for a Prime Minister, but it's a vote for a local member of parliament. I don't think it's a good system.
Anyway, for the time being, I'm going to continue to live where I am and further my education here. If nothing changes -> yay. If things change -> I then have to worry.
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Post by "not" june on Feb 26, 2017 4:58:34 GMT -5
i don't know a ton on the subject when it comes to details, but from what i do know, it has a lot to do with the new rising trend of nationalism, esp. in northern countries :v (which in my opinion is very yikes) (sorry you always get 2am discussion june and never actual information june oops)
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Post by pastelpills on Feb 26, 2017 5:00:58 GMT -5
It was a bad decision for a bad reason.
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Post by Card against Humanity on Feb 26, 2017 9:18:29 GMT -5
im not british so my opinion isn't the best one out there, but I think they split for wrong reasons. it seemed like they split purely because of xenophobia, rather then economical reasons
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Post by Northstar3213 on Feb 26, 2017 9:29:33 GMT -5
I can't say that I have enough knowledge to make a solid opinion, but as someone in the US observing it as an outsider, it's quite shocking to see how divided it make the U.K. But at the same time I think it was a long time coming. I think that depending on how the government after Brexit behaves, the U.K. would only benefit. I mean look at Switzerland, it's not part of the EU and it's thriving. It really does fall on the shoulders of the government officials at this point the fate of the UK. And I am hopeful that the U.K. will thrive without the EU having it on a leash.
But what do I know? I'm a stupid American.
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