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Post by ro on Jan 15, 2017 19:43:08 GMT -5
Well, i mean its good Bramble is a good cat, but what do you think made him change to a good cat from following Tiger and Hawk?
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Jan 15, 2017 19:58:50 GMT -5
Brambleclaw was always a good cat though? He never "changed" so to speak, when the issue with Hawkfrost and Tigerstar arose. He was a bit mislead, and he didn't want to believe his brother was evil--so him being the way he was in TNP was mostly due to ignorance on his part.
Brambleclaw was never evil. In fact, the story itself makes multiple points to show that he is nothing like his father; despite his resemblance.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 20:03:58 GMT -5
Brambleclaw was always a good cat though? He never "changed" so to speak, when the issue with Hawkfrost and Tigerstar arose. He was a bit mislead, and he didn't want to believe his brother was evil--so him being the way he was in TNP was mostly due to ignorance on his part. Brambleclaw was never evil. In fact, the story itself makes multiple points to show that he is nothing like his father; despite his resemblance. ^^^^ What this guy said. There was a whole plotline in the story of how everyone thought Bramblepaw was going to be like his father and Bramblepaw's conflict within the plot is having to overcome those supersitions/rumors surrounding him and having to prove his loyalty. So in short, he grew trying to be the opposite of his father's legacy, and therefore good.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 20:27:03 GMT -5
Hawkfrost only followed him because he never got to know his father. I guess he wanted to impress Tigerstar, and that's to do what Tigerstar says. I mean, Tigerstar is disappointed in Mothwing being a medicine cat, and keep in mind that Hawkfrost wasn't around when Tigerstar betrayed the Clans in the forest, back in the original series. He never truly got to know his father, so Tigerstar might have manipulated him, just like what he did with Ivypool.
I don't like nor care for Hawkfrost but he looked up to his dad a lot, so I'm kind of sorry for him that Tigerstar praised Brambleclaw for killing him in TLH, which means he doesn't truly care for his kids at all, just uses them for power.
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Post by kinkajou on Jan 15, 2017 20:58:19 GMT -5
He was always good, even while following them
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Post by Brambleshadow on Jan 15, 2017 22:52:47 GMT -5
Brambleclaw was always a good cat though? He never "changed" so to speak, when the issue with Hawkfrost and Tigerstar arose. He was a bit mislead, and he didn't want to believe his brother was evil--so him being the way he was in TNP was mostly due to ignorance on his part. Brambleclaw was never evil. In fact, the story itself makes multiple points to show that he is nothing like his father; despite his resemblance. ^^^^ What this guy said. There was a whole plotline in the story of how everyone thought Bramblepaw was going to be like his father and Bramblepaw's conflict within the plot is having to overcome those supersitions/rumors surrounding him and having to prove his loyalty. So in short, he grew trying to be the opposite of his father's legacy, and therefore good. ^^ Yes to all of this. Heck, Tawnypelt left ThunderClan as an apprentice because practically every single cat in ThunderClan was judging her/thought she was going to turn evil just because she was Tigerstar's daughter.
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Post by ro on Jan 16, 2017 7:59:56 GMT -5
He was in the "Dreams" training, and was planning to kill Firestar until Hawkfrost died. (i read that book it DOES say that bramble was in the plan until the end.)
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Post by Rainshadow on Jan 16, 2017 8:13:00 GMT -5
He did hesitate when Hawkfrost told him to kill Firestar but as I remember he was never in on the plan. He only knew about it when Firestar was already trapped and Hawkfrost presented the opportunity to kill him.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Jan 16, 2017 8:56:20 GMT -5
Brambleclaw was never in on the plan. Even Hawkfrost mocks him about it, saying how it was a test of Brambleclaw's loyalty to Tigerstar. He learned of the plan the moment it happened. And he had run to the lake to rescue Firestar when he heard he was in trouble.
He only hesitated when Hawkfrost was there, and admitted to this being a plan he and Tigerstar devised. Brambleclaw had a slight moment of hesitation, but his intention was never to kill Firestar.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Jan 16, 2017 13:46:55 GMT -5
He was never evil.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Jan 16, 2017 14:08:51 GMT -5
The thing about Brambleclaw is that he realizes power isn't worth sacrificing many others, because those that remain will only rebel… Not to mention a structure will then eventually collapse in on itself… Both those things happened to his father…
To echo what others said, Hawkfrost never saw any of that, so he probably never understood the consequences of what power by force could bring… Sure, he helped out Mudclaw when he tried to rebel, but Mudclaw’s rebellion was seen as something inside the Code and not power by force (since he was originally the deputy up until the last moments of his leader's life, and therefore felt he had a right to take it back from someone who had no training for it).
Also, it wasn't that Brambleclaw was again in the plan or wanted to kill his leader… What happened was Hawkfrost went on about how he could avenge his father and become leader. Well he was doing that, Firestar himself wordlessly gave him the choice to kill him or not, and Brambleclaw chose not to…
The quotation from the book is “But there was no pleading in the green eyes, only a fierce, proud, question: What will you do, Brambleclaw? It's your choice.”
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