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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Nov 2, 2023 18:40:29 GMT -5
She didn't threaten to harm him. She got mad and growled, but didn't so much as lift a paw or make any sign that she would. What is actually being said there is that she looked very angry. But looking angry is a very far cry from threatening anything. If the roles were reversed and this was Brambleclaw to Squilf (as leader), would you still feel the same about the scenario? Would you be condeming Bramble for getting angry at his leader and ready to swipe at her? If so, why should the slight threat of being physically violent only apply to Bramble and not Squilf? Not really sure what you're trying to say here... I think what Vectoring is pointing out is that in the scene in question, Squilf didn't actually threaten anything. IIRC Nightheart just notes that she looked "angry enough to take a swipe" or something, as a way to quantify her anger, but that's not the same thing as her actually swiping at him or threatening to do so. And yes, I'd feel the same way if the roles were reversed. It's not about who did what, it's just a clarification of what actually happened in writing vs. fan interpretation.
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Post by kitters on Nov 2, 2023 19:05:42 GMT -5
Squirrelflight did the right thing in walking away. Idk why ppl hate her for that scene so much. I don't think either has ever physically hurt each other.
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Post by 𓆩♡𓆪Moonshine𓆩♡𓆪 on Nov 2, 2023 19:15:16 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after Squirrelflight storms off, Bramblestar is noted by Nightheart to be trembling. Nightheart is a bit of an unreliable narrator, but he thought Squirrelflight was going to strike, followed by Bramblestar shaking implies that they both thought Squirrelflight was going to hit Bramblestar.
If Bramblestar did this to Squirrelflight, there would be so many people crying abuse.
I might be remembering this wrong tbh
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2023 19:18:20 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after Squirrelflight storms off, Bramblestar is noted by Nightheart to be trembling. Nightheart is a bit of an unreliable narrator, but he thought Squirrelflight was going to strike, followed by Bramblestar shaking implies that they both thought Squirrelflight was going to hit Bramblestar. If Bramblestar did this to Squirrelflight, there would be so many people crying abuse. I might be remembering this wrong tbh yes, nightheart saw him trembling/looking shaken. Squirrelflight looked ready to swipe a blow at Bramblestar's muzzle. Instead she growled and stalked away. Bramblestar sat down, his pelt pricking along his spine.Clearly the argument with Squirrelflight had shaken him more than he'd let on. Nightheart wondered what to do. If he went back to fixing the nests, the Thunder Clan leader might hear him. He'd guess at once that Nightheart had been listening.There was no way he could have missed the conversation from here.
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Aroace
ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ
“Do you remember…the 21st night of September?”
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Post by ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ on Nov 2, 2023 19:37:37 GMT -5
er…I have something to confess
I’ve never fully read SH. I couldn’t get through it. I don’t thing anyone is actually a “good cat” and that book and that it’s written horribly. I also don’t like the sisters either, so the whole thing is just a dumpster fire for me.
I personally think everyone should just realize both sides of SquirrelBramble is toxic. Bramblestar a jerk, yet he is not abusive. Bramblestar never physically harms Squirrelflight ever to my memory. He isn’t emotionally destroying her. He’s just being a bitch, that’s all. The word abuse is thrown around falsely so much in this fandom it’s not even funny. Squirrelflight, on the other hand, is one of those people who thinks “I’m right and everyone else is wrong unless they agree with me” which isn’t a suitable trait for Bramblestar’s personality. She lied to Bramblestar about the kits, which in her defense, she was just trying to protect Leafpool. However, that doesn’t mean she had to make her mate grow a family off lies. I’m not saying Bramblestar was right to lash out on her in PoT, but still.
Basically it’s an everyone sucks situation and if anyone calls either Squirrelflight or Bramblestar abusive I will not agree with them because the relationship is simply just toxic and they should have broke up and just became friends after Hollyleaf’s reveal.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Nov 2, 2023 20:02:13 GMT -5
If Tumblr finds this thread we're going to be burnt at stake I'm on that side of tumblr and I can confirm they will burn you at the stake...
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Nov 2, 2023 20:08:27 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after Squirrelflight storms off, Bramblestar is noted by Nightheart to be trembling. Nightheart is a bit of an unreliable narrator, but he thought Squirrelflight was going to strike, followed by Bramblestar shaking implies that they both thought Squirrelflight was going to hit Bramblestar. If Bramblestar did this to Squirrelflight, there would be so many people crying abuse. I might be remembering this wrong tbh nightheart is very much an unreliable narrator i don't know how much i can trust that at allllll plus bramblestar is literally just a frail old man after tbc literally anything can shake him like that. and there was no actual confirmation that bramblestar thought squirrelflight was gonna hit him he was just shaking probably due to the energy that arguing takes out of him, there's no reason to believe that he was scared of squirrelflight hitting him also yeah if the roles were reversed people probably would be crying abuse because squirrelflight is not a shaken frail cat, it's probably normal for bramblestar to be trembling given his current state of health and it wouldn't have been for squirrelflight due to her being in pretty much peak performance despite being old
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2023 20:56:58 GMT -5
If Tumblr finds this thread we're going to be burnt at stake I'm on that side of tumblr and I can confirm they will burn you at the stake... update us if they burn us at the stake 🥲🥲
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Post by vectoring34 on Nov 2, 2023 22:37:06 GMT -5
She didn't threaten to harm him. She got mad and growled, but didn't so much as lift a paw or make any sign that she would. What is actually being said there is that she looked very angry. But looking angry is a very far cry from threatening anything. If the roles were reversed and this was Brambleclaw to Squilf (as leader), would you still feel the same about the scenario? Would you be condeming Bramble for getting angry at his leader and ready to swipe at her? If so, why should the slight threat of being physically violent only apply to Bramble and not Squilf? Don't imply things about my stance. As ambrose pointed out, I'm simply discussing the facts here. There's nothing in that scene to imply a physical threat was ever made when compared to Nightheart simply using a phrase to describe how mad someone looks. It's akin to if I said someone "looked like they would rather eat live scorpions rather than do this". It's probably not literal, and it's just describing vividly how upset that person looks. Likewise, given the context here, I don't see any reason to believe this is meant to be a literal threat. Bramblestar shaking after the fact isn't good enough evidence because Bramblestar in ASC is a pale, sickly shadow of what he used to be; there are multiple times in the book where he looks and acts generally unhealthy. Yes, if the roles were reversed, I would say the same thing.
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Post by Sand on Nov 3, 2023 4:59:19 GMT -5
I'm on that side of tumblr and I can confirm they will burn you at the stake... update us if they burn us at the stake 🥲🥲 I think we were already burnt at the stake a long time ago.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 3, 2023 5:24:13 GMT -5
This thread is interesting, I'm surprised it's still up, but I'm enjoying it haha.
I would like to read the doc though.
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Post by rabbit on Nov 3, 2023 8:16:01 GMT -5
The constant focus on Squirrelflight in the main series (and the terrible rehashing in all the extra content in SEs) makes me say uncle to the warrior cats series. I really like Nightheart and Frostpaw but I don’t think that is enough to continue on. The spotlight has been on her for too long that her fur is light bleached and in fandom spaces it is one of the only topics that generates interesting discussion. Safe to say I’ve had enough for now and have better spent my time reading better books, which ain’t gonna be hard since Warriors has bottom barrel writing overall.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 10:04:08 GMT -5
This thread is interesting, I'm surprised it's still up, but I'm enjoying it haha. I would like to read the doc though. i can pm it to u?
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Nov 3, 2023 11:20:50 GMT -5
update us if they burn us at the stake 🥲🥲 I think we were already burnt at the stake a long time ago. wheres that meme i made about us vs. warriors tumblr EDIT: found it
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 11:40:00 GMT -5
I think we were already burnt at the stake a long time ago. wheres that meme i made about us vs. warriors tumblr EDIT: found it LMFAOOO 😭as someone who was on tumblr and on the wcrp hate side of it, you’re pretty much right
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Post by thewinterblaze on Nov 3, 2023 18:53:51 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after Squirrelflight storms off, Bramblestar is noted by Nightheart to be trembling. Nightheart is a bit of an unreliable narrator, but he thought Squirrelflight was going to strike, followed by Bramblestar shaking implies that they both thought Squirrelflight was going to hit Bramblestar. If Bramblestar did this to Squirrelflight, there would be so many people crying abuse. I might be remembering this wrong tbh nightheart is very much an unreliable narrator i don't know how much i can trust that at allllll plus bramblestar is literally just a frail old man after tbc literally anything can shake him like that. and there was no actual confirmation that bramblestar thought squirrelflight was gonna hit him he was just shaking probably due to the energy that arguing takes out of him, there's no reason to believe that he was scared of squirrelflight hitting him also yeah if the roles were reversed people probably would be crying abuse because squirrelflight is not a shaken frail cat, it's probably normal for bramblestar to be trembling given his current state of health and it wouldn't have been for squirrelflight due to her being in pretty much peak performance despite being old I mean... saying Bramblestar is a frail old man hardly makes things better- it just shows that Squirrelflight is being nasty and mean to an old man, no matter how much excuses you say about his "energy"(which barely makes sense in itself because Bramblestar has never shied away from arguments).
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Post by rabbit on Nov 3, 2023 20:22:20 GMT -5
I think we were already burnt at the stake a long time ago. wheres that meme i made about us vs. warriors tumblr EDIT: found it haha, I was kind of curious and just took a look and one of my posts was on there with my user and everything (which is the only reason I knew it was mine lol). Honestly the idea of random kid on tumblr taking the time and energy to repost whatever dumb comments I’ve made on here to their blog is kind of adorable. I’m not even mad.
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Post by vectoring34 on Nov 3, 2023 20:42:05 GMT -5
nightheart is very much an unreliable narrator i don't know how much i can trust that at allllll plus bramblestar is literally just a frail old man after tbc literally anything can shake him like that. and there was no actual confirmation that bramblestar thought squirrelflight was gonna hit him he was just shaking probably due to the energy that arguing takes out of him, there's no reason to believe that he was scared of squirrelflight hitting him also yeah if the roles were reversed people probably would be crying abuse because squirrelflight is not a shaken frail cat, it's probably normal for bramblestar to be trembling given his current state of health and it wouldn't have been for squirrelflight due to her being in pretty much peak performance despite being old I mean... saying Bramblestar is a frail old man hardly makes things better- it just shows that Squirrelflight is being nasty and mean to an old man, no matter how much excuses you say about his "energy"(which barely makes sense in itself because Bramblestar has never shied away from arguments). The crippled, traumatized Bramblestar post-being infested by a ghostly spirit absolutely shies away from arguments out of fear, this is explicitly pointed out by Nightheart. How is Squirrelflight being nasty and mean in that scene? She got upset with him and made an angry expression, and then walked off. She didn't even say anything offensive, this whole thing is provoked by people overreacting to her just making an angry expression and Bramblestar being frustrated that he's unable to communicate effectively with her after the fact. This isn't abuse.
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Post by {Azure} on Nov 3, 2023 20:51:40 GMT -5
i have nothing to say about this other than "go get some help". this is directed at both of them
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Post by thewinterblaze on Nov 3, 2023 21:40:58 GMT -5
I mean... saying Bramblestar is a frail old man hardly makes things better- it just shows that Squirrelflight is being nasty and mean to an old man, no matter how much excuses you say about his "energy"(which barely makes sense in itself because Bramblestar has never shied away from arguments). The crippled, traumatized Bramblestar post-being infested by a ghostly spirit absolutely shies away from arguments out of fear, this is explicitly pointed out by Nightheart. How is Squirrelflight being nasty and mean in that scene? She got upset with him and made an angry expression, and then walked off. She didn't even say anything offensive, this whole thing is provoked by people overreacting to her just making an angry expression and Bramblestar being frustrated that he's unable to communicate effectively with her after the fact. This isn't abuse. First of all I never mentioned abuse once in my post- so please don't put words in my mouth. Secondly, ignoring everything else, imagine if the people were switched in this situation. Bramblestar getting upset with her and making an angry expression, leading to her flinching. He'd get absolutely torn apart. Double standards much?
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Nov 3, 2023 21:52:30 GMT -5
The crippled, traumatized Bramblestar post-being infested by a ghostly spirit absolutely shies away from arguments out of fear, this is explicitly pointed out by Nightheart. How is Squirrelflight being nasty and mean in that scene? She got upset with him and made an angry expression, and then walked off. She didn't even say anything offensive, this whole thing is provoked by people overreacting to her just making an angry expression and Bramblestar being frustrated that he's unable to communicate effectively with her after the fact. This isn't abuse. First of all I never mentioned abuse once in my post- so please don't put words in my mouth. Secondly, ignoring everything else, imagine if the people were switched in this situation. Bramblestar getting upset with her and making an angry expression, leading to her flinching. He'd get absolutely torn apart. Double standards much? They never said you called it abuse - they were talking about the thread as a whole, people thinking Squirrelflight abused him because he was shaking. He never even flinched, by the way. He was shaking. Because he is in bad health. And I also mentioned (in the post you responded to by the way and acknowledged that you read?) that yes, he would get torn apart for doing that, and it would have been with good reason. Squirrelflight is not in bad health, she doesn't tremble, she doesn't shake. If Bramblestar argued with her to the point where she was shaking, it would have to have been a much worse argument than the one we saw in that scene.
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Post by Hollyfall on Nov 4, 2023 1:04:07 GMT -5
I think we were already burnt at the stake a long time ago. wheres that meme i made about us vs. warriors tumblr EDIT: found it they're just jealous this place is the superior site
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Post by kitters on Nov 4, 2023 1:14:15 GMT -5
To me it seems like he's shaking as a result of the argument itself, not because he was scared of Squirrelflight. Like if you have a big argument with your partner you might storm off and cry/be shaken because you're scared for your relationship or upset that you fought instead of getting along. Not because your partner scared you.
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Post by vectoring34 on Nov 4, 2023 8:34:33 GMT -5
The crippled, traumatized Bramblestar post-being infested by a ghostly spirit absolutely shies away from arguments out of fear, this is explicitly pointed out by Nightheart. How is Squirrelflight being nasty and mean in that scene? She got upset with him and made an angry expression, and then walked off. She didn't even say anything offensive, this whole thing is provoked by people overreacting to her just making an angry expression and Bramblestar being frustrated that he's unable to communicate effectively with her after the fact. This isn't abuse. First of all I never mentioned abuse once in my post- so please don't put words in my mouth. Secondly, ignoring everything else, imagine if the people were switched in this situation. Bramblestar getting upset with her and making an angry expression, leading to her flinching. He'd get absolutely torn apart. Double standards much? I really wish people would stop saying “IF THE ROLES WERE REVERSED”. It’s setting up a straw man that no one in here is even arguing in favor of, least if all me.I wouldn’t tear apart Brambleclaw if the scenario was reversed, no. On the other hand, the argument that this is abuse actually has shown up in this thread, which is what I’m arguing against.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Nov 4, 2023 8:58:55 GMT -5
I dont even think anyone here right now is arguing that Squilf doesn’t have times when she is genuinely treating Bramble badly as a mate/deputy. We’re just arguing that it’s a stretch to claim that particular scene as one of those times.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2023 10:51:44 GMT -5
I dont even think anyone here right now is arguing that Squilf doesn’t have times when she is genuinely treating Bramble badly as a mate/deputy. We’re just arguing that it’s a stretch to claim that particular scene as one of those times. yep! i apologize if me bringing that scene up was so controversial, it was just me trying to point out that there are times she goes overboard. i edited the post, sorry about the argument i caused.
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Post by Hollyfall on Nov 4, 2023 12:13:33 GMT -5
er…I have something to confess I’ve never fully read SH. I couldn’t get through it. I don’t thing anyone is actually a “good cat” and that book and that it’s written horribly. I also don’t like the sisters either, so the whole thing is just a dumpster fire for me. I personally think everyone should just realize both sides of SquirrelBramble is toxic. Bramblestar a jerk, yet he is not abusive. Bramblestar never physically harms Squirrelflight ever to my memory. He isn’t emotionally destroying her. He’s just being a bitch, that’s all. The word abuse is thrown around falsely so much in this fandom it’s not even funny. Squirrelflight, on the other hand, is one of those people who thinks “I’m right and everyone else is wrong unless they agree with me” which isn’t a suitable trait for Bramblestar’s personality. She lied to Bramblestar about the kits, which in her defense, she was just trying to protect Leafpool. However, that doesn’t mean she had to make her mate grow a family off lies. I’m not saying Bramblestar was right to lash out on her in PoT, but still. Basically it’s an everyone sucks situation and if anyone calls either Squirrelflight or Bramblestar abusive I will not agree with them because the relationship is simply just toxic and they should have broke up and just became friends after Hollyleaf’s reveal. I agree it's toxic, with both of them at fault for varying reasons. Personally my issue is that the books keep reminding us that these two are destined to be together and whatever, but in every single book and arc they have relevance in, they fight and argue. It's a wash-rinse-repeat of fighting and then making up at the end. Couples fight, that's nothing new nor unrealistic, but it's just rehashing issues in their already toxic relationship constantly, and it's exhausting.
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Aroace
ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ
“Do you remember…the 21st night of September?”
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Post by ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ on Nov 4, 2023 13:31:31 GMT -5
er…I have something to confess I’ve never fully read SH. I couldn’t get through it. I don’t thing anyone is actually a “good cat” and that book and that it’s written horribly. I also don’t like the sisters either, so the whole thing is just a dumpster fire for me. I personally think everyone should just realize both sides of SquirrelBramble is toxic. Bramblestar a jerk, yet he is not abusive. Bramblestar never physically harms Squirrelflight ever to my memory. He isn’t emotionally destroying her. He’s just being a bitch, that’s all. The word abuse is thrown around falsely so much in this fandom it’s not even funny. Squirrelflight, on the other hand, is one of those people who thinks “I’m right and everyone else is wrong unless they agree with me” which isn’t a suitable trait for Bramblestar’s personality. She lied to Bramblestar about the kits, which in her defense, she was just trying to protect Leafpool. However, that doesn’t mean she had to make her mate grow a family off lies. I’m not saying Bramblestar was right to lash out on her in PoT, but still. Basically it’s an everyone sucks situation and if anyone calls either Squirrelflight or Bramblestar abusive I will not agree with them because the relationship is simply just toxic and they should have broke up and just became friends after Hollyleaf’s reveal. I agree it's toxic, with both of them at fault for varying reasons. Personally my issue is that the books keep reminding us that these two are destined to be together and whatever, but in every single book and arc they have relevance in, they fight and argue. It's a wash-rinse-repeat of fighting and then making up at the end. Couples fight, that's nothing new nor unrealistic, but it's just rehashing issues in their already toxic relationship constantly, and it's exhausting. I totally agree! That’s why I believe they should have just became friends after the PoT incident.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Nov 4, 2023 19:31:31 GMT -5
Tbh the healthiest their relationship has ever been, was during PoT; aside from Squilf lying about the three.
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on Nov 4, 2023 20:15:46 GMT -5
I mean, it's not CT Breezepelt, but it's definitely noticeable.
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