Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 19, 2023 6:33:45 GMT -5
I'm just over here liking Mapleshade as a villain while also feeling bad for her in the context of what happened to her kits and that she was exiled in that way and treated like crap by Appledusk and RiverClan so shortly after the death of her kits. Granted, Oakstar exiling her makes perfect sense for him considering that Mapleshade's secret mate Appledusk was the one he blamed for the death of his son Birchface (and Flowerpaw). And for kind of lying (although she never outright claimed the kits to be Birchface's) by not rebuking Frecklewish and Oakstar for assuming the kits were part of their family through Birchface. This doesn't make him exiling the kits be an okay thing to do in any way though and I will forever be mad that he's in StarClan despite him doing this. Still, I don't think any of Mapleshade's three victims deserved to die but they did deserve some other form of comeuppance instead. But I also don't think that Mapleshade was bad from the start. Yes, she was possessive of Appledusk and got jealous at Reedshine multiple times. But I think getting mad at either she-cat in regards to Appledusk is bs, to be honest. He's the one who was two-timing/cheating and even if he wasn't outright doing that (like I've seen some people claim) there was still most definitely an overlap between him being secret mates with Mapleshade and becoming mates with Reedshine. I don't think Appledusk deserved to die either though (and also don't think he deserves the DF like I've seen some people demand it). As for her lying by ommission (at least I think that's what its's called), while it was certainly not the right thing to do to Oakstar and Frecklewish personally, who were still grieving the death of Birchface, Mapleshade simply did not want to disclose who the father was because she knew it would end badly due to it being the cat that was made responsible for the death of Oakstar's son (and Frecklewish's brother). She was not intentionally manipulating them but instead trying to protect herself and her kits. It was not fair to Oakstar or Frecklewish but she didn't do it to spite them. That is why I can at least understand why she did it in that context. TL;DR: I think that Mapleshade was not bad from the start but became bad after getting exiled, the death of her kits and getting betrayed by her mate. She does deserve being in the DF though, full stop. Adding on that I do agree with ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ that Mapleshade was quite a bit naive and arrogant even before it all went totally downhill for her in MV. Mostly in regards to her thinking that not disclosing the father of her kits to Oakstar and Frecklewish and letting them assume it was Birchface (even though queens apparently did not have to always tell who the father of their kits was) would turn out well or that they would one day accept Appledusk and that their kits would strengthen the relationship between ThunderClan and RiverClan. Mapleshade being naive and arrogant doesn't make her bad though, since those are just character flaws instead. But killing three cats (who were not free of flaws themselves or even entirely innocent but still didn't deserve death) made her bad.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Oct 19, 2023 19:35:49 GMT -5
True, but I never said she didn't manipulate a grieving family. My point was that you saying "we'll have to agree to disagree as to when she became awful" implies that you (at least this is how I interpreted what you said) think her manipulating a grieving family wasn't the first awful thing she did, and it was something later on, due to her having the intention to tell the truth later on. I was saying that I think that was pretty damn bad, even if she had the intention to tell the truth sooner or later, she still played with people's emotions and lied on the name of a dead person. That's understandable. When I said that she was awful after her kits died, I referred to when she went on her murder spree. She can still be a terrible cat before that. She was awful and became worse, if that makes sense.
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Post by 😜graywing1267😝 on Oct 20, 2023 13:34:19 GMT -5
she is not bad just broken beacuse her kits drowned its not fair for her! i think she is not bad!!
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Aroace
ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ
“Do you remember…the 21st night of September?”
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Post by ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ on Oct 20, 2023 19:33:17 GMT -5
Takes two to tango. Appledusk made those kits too, to be fair, and he got no punishment, unlike Mapleshade, who was exiled. But she shouldn't have killed anyone. But I honestly don't know where she could have gone, because most places required crossing water anyways, and there was probably going to be plentiful patrols from Thunderclan because of the Mapleshade incident. But ya'll are right, she shouldn't have done what she did. Also, I didn't mean to give off any negativity or aggression, so sorry if it seemed that way. As much as I hate her, I genuinely believe it was very bad of Oakstar and Ravenwing to enforce kicking her and her kits out. They could have at least kept the kits safe in ThunderClan. I think most of us arguing that Mapleshade is terrible aren’t defending her getting booted out of ThunderClan, so if she didn’t deserve it then did Appledusk? No, he didn’t. Just because Mapleshade got exiled doesn’t mean Appledusk should be too, because two wrongs don’t make a right. Basically Oakstar is a bitch lol.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Oct 21, 2023 0:06:11 GMT -5
she is not bad just broken beacuse her kits drowned its not fair for her! i think she is not bad!!i'll always preach this when it comes to mapleshade opinions because this is literally not an opinion, it's fact. mental health issues doesn't excuse murder. you can't just kill people and it be okay because you were mentally unstable or your kits died. she's a bad person - she manipulated a grieving family, killed three people, later four when she murks spottedleaf's ghost in the great battle, and haunted an entire bloodline. it's also implied that she caused the deaths of TONS of the cats in that bloodline. she also single-handedly changed the lives of unborn kits by killing their father before they could meet him and also widowed an innocent she-cat (also ruining crookedstar's life and doing to him what she also did to reedshine - took away their mate before they had the opportunity to raise their kits. silverstream grew up without a mother because of mapleshade) nothing she could say or do could make up/excuse for what she's done tldr; mental illness is not an excuse for murder and mapleshade is a bad person
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Post by yuki on Oct 21, 2023 3:57:40 GMT -5
i feel moreso bad for her kits. i have little to no remorse for mapleshade but to an extent i wish that oakstar allowed her kits and her to at least stay until the kits reached a certain age. this wouldve been a better outcome considering the kits had done nothing.
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Post by 「Wιитεяичgнт」 on Oct 27, 2023 8:23:54 GMT -5
She's annoying, awful, evil and down right overused/overrated. No redeeming quality imo, I even found her story bland and boring. I'm ready for a new female villains to push her outta the spotlight finally.
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Nov 3, 2023 16:05:56 GMT -5
Oakstar does actually regret exiling her, and has learned from his mistake. Or so I've googled.
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Nov 3, 2023 16:14:19 GMT -5
Also, in a way, she obviously didn't deserve being exiled, she deserved a good punishment at least, but what her kits received was much worse than that. It's weird, that Oakstar was stupid enough to not only exile her but her kits.
Appledusk didn't deserve to die, but rather cat harshly punished, like apprentice chores or something, but he got away with it and at the time he was the worst cat in the relationship.
Also, the way Ravenwing just told on her without working things out with Mapleshade was kind of harsh. It might have been better if he had just kept the kits a secret for a while longer, it might have worked out better.
However, it's not to say I think Mapleshade should go unpunished, since she lied to a heartbroken family, manipulating them into thinking that she had once been mates with Frecklewish's brother.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Nov 3, 2023 22:02:55 GMT -5
Appledusk didn't deserve to die, but rather cat harshly punished, like apprentice chores or something, but he got away with it and at the time he was the worst cat in the relationship.
However, it's not to say I think Mapleshade should go unpunished, since she lied to a heartbroken family, manipulating them into thinking that she had once been mates with Frecklewish's brother. Was Appledusk really the worse one in the relationship though? I mean, you said it yourself, she manipulated a grieving family. All he did was cheat on her and apologise when he was backed into a corner. And despite being backed into a corner when he apologised, he shows he actually meant it, later on when he sacrifices himself for Reedshine and their kits to live. (I completely agree with you on Ravenwing, by the way. He was in a position of power in ThunderClan and chose to sit by while innocent kits were exiled during a storm. An "icy look" isn't enough from him when his voice holds power in the Clan.)
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Nov 4, 2023 1:12:29 GMT -5
I stand corrected. Mapleshade was obviously worse in the relationship, however, it feels unfair that he was given no punishment, unlike Mapleshade, who was forced into exile, and one again was pushed off Riverclan territory, as well. He also completely left Mapleshade, which also seems unfair to me, because she was once his mate, and he should have said something to convince the current Rc leader to let Mapleshade at least wait out the storm.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Nov 4, 2023 3:35:36 GMT -5
I stand corrected. Mapleshade was obviously worse in the relationship, however, it feels unfair that he was given no punishment, unlike Mapleshade, who was forced into exile, and one again was pushed off Riverclan territory, as well. He also completely left Mapleshade, which also seems unfair to me, because she was once his mate, and he should have said something to convince the current Rc leader to let Mapleshade at least wait out the storm. Someone else mentioned this in the thread already, but if you think it was wrong for Mapleshade (who had done worse than Appledusk at the time) to have been exiled then why would Appledusk deserve exile too? To quote that person, two wrongs don't make a right. Darkstar kicking Mapleshade off RiverClan territory was wrong in my opinion, they could've let her stay a little at least so she could sit vigil for her kits, but by no means are they obligated to let her into the Clan. Especially considering it was leafbare(?). Appledusk had the right to break up with Mapleshade - loss of kits causes a lot of relationships to end, and him breaking up with her was him staying true to his apology. Unlike Ravenwing, he had no power in the Clan and was just found out to be a codebreaker. I'm pretty certain that he would've been on incredibly thin ice with his Clan afterwards, his voice wouldn't have carried much power. If Darkstar made the decision she couldn't stay, then someone who was just found out to be a codebreaker probably wouldn't have been able to do much. His Clanmates probably wouldn't have trusted him in the slightest if he requested that his former half-clan mate could stay in their Clan despite breaking up with her, he'd have been risking his position and home, and even if Mapleshade had suffered a lot, Appledusk wasn't obligated to risk so much to keep her there.
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Post by Hailfrost on Nov 4, 2023 18:01:40 GMT -5
I think she's evil, but I love her for it
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on Nov 4, 2023 20:16:48 GMT -5
Kind of good until her kits die, obviously bad afterwards.
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Nov 4, 2023 23:29:37 GMT -5
I stand corrected. Mapleshade was obviously worse in the relationship, however, it feels unfair that he was given no punishment, unlike Mapleshade, who was forced into exile, and one again was pushed off Riverclan territory, as well. He also completely left Mapleshade, which also seems unfair to me, because she was once his mate, and he should have said something to convince the current Rc leader to let Mapleshade at least wait out the storm. Someone else mentioned this in the thread already, but if you think it was wrong for Mapleshade (who had done worse than Appledusk at the time) to have been exiled then why would Appledusk deserve exile too? To quote that person, two wrongs don't make a right. Darkstar kicking Mapleshade off RiverClan territory was wrong in my opinion, they could've let her stay a little at least so she could sit vigil for her kits, but by no means are they obligated to let her into the Clan. Especially considering it was leafbare(?). Appledusk had the right to break up with Mapleshade - loss of kits causes a lot of relationships to end, and him breaking up with her was him staying true to his apology. Unlike Ravenwing, he had no power in the Clan and was just found out to be a codebreaker. I'm pretty certain that he would've been on incredibly thin ice with his Clan afterwards, his voice wouldn't have carried much power. If Darkstar made the decision she couldn't stay, then someone who was just found out to be a codebreaker probably wouldn't have been able to do much. His Clanmates probably wouldn't have trusted him in the slightest if he requested that his former half-clan mate could stay in their Clan despite breaking up with her, he'd have been risking his position and home, and even if Mapleshade had suffered a lot, Appledusk wasn't obligated to risk so much to keep her there. [br Not exile, just a ton of apprentice work.
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