Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Oct 12, 2023 3:46:26 GMT -5
Do we think Mapleshade is as awful as some cat like Darkstripe of Tigerstar? Or was she just betrayed by everyone she loved, and deserved better than what she got? (Also what kind of butterfly effect could have begun if Mapleshade survived?)
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Oct 12, 2023 3:51:02 GMT -5
Initially, no. She wasn't a bad cat, just incredibly naive and daresay, arrogant. However, losing her kits and everything else that mattered to her, twisted her into a very bitter and malicious cat.
I still have sympathy for her, but I don't condone her actions; despite the fact that I think her victims got what they deserved. She definitely is evil and belongs in the DF.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Oct 12, 2023 4:48:33 GMT -5
what kinda question 😭😭
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Post by deerspirit on Oct 12, 2023 7:20:02 GMT -5
She is a complicated character who let her grief and bitterness consume her until nothing was left of her humanity and decency. The same thing happened with Ashfur. She definitely belongs in the Dark Forest and at this point should never be allowed anywhere near StarClan or the border tunnel. She is definitely not a candidate for a border guardian who can earn by redeeming herself a place in StarClan. I think she is always going to be a threat to the clans until she is double killed.
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Post by ! (Ġray) ! on Oct 12, 2023 9:07:48 GMT -5
I like her in the way I like all fictional villains, but she's a bad person (cat)
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 12, 2023 17:02:53 GMT -5
She horrifically murdered three cats and probably would killed more had she survived. Yes she is a bad person, full stop.
“But she was treated badly—“ cool motive, still murder. There is no mitigation of morals or responsibility.
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Post by ! (Ġray) ! on Oct 12, 2023 19:06:47 GMT -5
I like her in the way I like all fictional villains, but she's a bad person (cat) One day I’ll get an actual candy on your post and won’t click on it in fear of being rickrolled. All part of my devious plan
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Oct 12, 2023 19:31:50 GMT -5
Very good, she is right up there with my GOATs Jack the Ripper and Ted Bundy
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Post by Hollyfall on Oct 12, 2023 19:58:31 GMT -5
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Oct 13, 2023 0:35:33 GMT -5
I hate her so much and don’t understand why people give her sympathy. She acted immaturely and don’t even try to say it wasn’t her fault her kits died, because it completely was. I blame Oakstar and Ravenwing, but crossing the river was NOT smart. So are you suggesting she should do what exactly- She was almost forced to cross the river, because where else was she supposed to go? She was forced out of her camp for loving a cat in another clan, and couldn't REALLY control having kits, (Although It was wrong of her to mate with Appledusk Then, her mate DENIED EVER LOVING HER, AND ABANDONING HER. Also, she was in so much pain, having the voices of her kits echoing in her mind, and the cats she killed mostly deserved it, (other than Frecklewish, since she was lies to, and probably Reedshine, except I genuinely don't like Reedshine, just because I imagine her being very clingy and would probably be so damn rude to Mapleshade because she would still love her man.) Though, she did deserve to go to the DF. Also, Appledusk is actually the worst cat that ever lived, in my opinion, and deserved to go though the DF, but that would be weird with Mapleshade. Spoiler! He went to Starclan >:<
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Post by thewinterblaze on Oct 13, 2023 2:03:23 GMT -5
I hate her so much and don’t understand why people give her sympathy. She acted immaturely and don’t even try to say it wasn’t her fault her kits died, because it completely was. I blame Oakstar and Ravenwing, but crossing the river was NOT smart. So are you suggesting she should do what exactly- She was almost forced to cross the river, because where else was she supposed to go? She was forced out of her camp for loving a cat in another clan, and couldn't REALLY control having kits, (Although It was wrong of her to mate with Appledusk Then, her mate DENIED EVER LOVING HER, AND ABANDONING HER. Also, she was in so much pain, having the voices of her kits echoing in her mind, and the cats she killed mostly deserved it, (other than Frecklewish, since she was lies to, and probably Reedshine, except I genuinely don't like Reedshine, just because I imagine her being very clingy and would probably be so damn rude to Mapleshade because she would still love her man.) Though, she did deserve to go to the DF. Also, Appledusk is actually the worst cat that ever lived, in my opinion, and deserved to go though the DF, but that would be weird with Mapleshade. Spoiler! He went to Starclan >:< Mapleshade could've gone to Fourtrees. She could've waited out the storm. There are a million other things she could've done instead of idiotically and recklessly endangering her kits and causing their deaths. Also, I love how you justify Reedshine getting murdered by Mapleshade because she's "clingy and rude". Great, rational reasons. And how exactly is Appledusk the worst cat ever? Last I checked, he wasn't the one who murdered three cats. Mapleshade deserves everything that happened to her. She can go rot in the Dark Forest for the rest of eternity.
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Aroace
ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ
“Do you remember…the 21st night of September?”
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Post by ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ on Oct 13, 2023 6:25:38 GMT -5
I hate her so much and don’t understand why people give her sympathy. She acted immaturely and don’t even try to say it wasn’t her fault her kits died, because it completely was. I blame Oakstar and Ravenwing, but crossing the river was NOT smart. So are you suggesting she should do what exactly- She was almost forced to cross the river, because where else was she supposed to go? She was forced out of her camp for loving a cat in another clan, and couldn't REALLY control having kits, (Although It was wrong of her to mate with Appledusk Then, her mate DENIED EVER LOVING HER, AND ABANDONING HER. Also, she was in so much pain, having the voices of her kits echoing in her mind, and the cats she killed mostly deserved it, (other than Frecklewish, since she was lies to, and probably Reedshine, except I genuinely don't like Reedshine, just because I imagine her being very clingy and would probably be so damn rude to Mapleshade because she would still love her man.) Though, she did deserve to go to the DF. Also, Appledusk is actually the worst cat that ever lived, in my opinion, and deserved to go though the DF, but that would be weird with Mapleshade. Spoiler! He went to Starclan >:< Yes, now let’s say you’re in this situation. After your kits die, would you immediately start killing everyone?? She could have gone to two-leg place too, which is right next to ThunderClan territory. Imo Appledusk can stay in StarClan. He literally committed zero crimes accept cheating on his ThunderClan mate which is NOT part of the warrior code.
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Bisexual
#64C7FF
Name Colour
finland
Porgs are love
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Post by finland on Oct 13, 2023 7:49:55 GMT -5
I like her in the way I like all fictional villains, but she's a bad person (cat) Thank you for the Rick Roll btw. It honestly made my day Agreed
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Post by Sand on Oct 13, 2023 11:02:29 GMT -5
Nettle & thewinterblaze - Please don’t be hostile and rude with each other. It is irresponsible to act this way. If you cannot debate without being aggressive, I suggest you learn how to debate properly. I will unlock the thread, but if there are any other comments that break forum rules, it will be locked again.
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Post by vectoring34 on Oct 13, 2023 15:06:18 GMT -5
So are you suggesting she should do what exactly- She was almost forced to cross the river, because where else was she supposed to go? She was forced out of her camp for loving a cat in another clan, and couldn't REALLY control having kits, (Although It was wrong of her to mate with Appledusk Then, her mate DENIED EVER LOVING HER, AND ABANDONING HER. Also, she was in so much pain, having the voices of her kits echoing in her mind, and the cats she killed mostly deserved it, (other than Frecklewish, since she was lies to, and probably Reedshine, except I genuinely don't like Reedshine, just because I imagine her being very clingy and would probably be so damn rude to Mapleshade because she would still love her man.) Though, she did deserve to go to the DF. Also, Appledusk is actually the worst cat that ever lived, in my opinion, and deserved to go though the DF, but that would be weird with Mapleshade. Spoiler! He went to Starclan >:< Mapleshade could've gone to Fourtrees. She could've waited out the storm. There are a million other things she could've done instead of idiotically and recklessly endangering her kits and causing their deaths. Also, I love how you justify Reedshine getting murdered by Mapleshade because she's "clingy and rude". Great, rational reasons. And how exactly is Appledusk the worst cat ever? Last I checked, he wasn't the one who murdered three cats. Mapleshade deserves everything that happened to her. She can go rot in the Dark Forest for the rest of eternity. Getting to Fourtrees requires crossing water anyway, there was a risk to life and limb regardless there. Waiting out the storm was also impossible with her no longer being welcome in Thunderclan territory and Frecklewish stalking behind her. Crossing the river was a gamble but it was a pretty rational call to try to risk getting to Riverclan directly to minimize travel time rather than be forced to ford water at a more unfamiliar point with more exhausted kits.
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Asexual
🩶Silverspark🩶
how do I keep getting money?!
Pronouns: She/her or cat pronouns
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Post by 🩶Silverspark🩶 on Oct 13, 2023 15:50:11 GMT -5
WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO ME?!
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Oct 13, 2023 16:24:09 GMT -5
I hate her so much and don’t understand why people give her sympathy. She acted immaturely and don’t even try to say it wasn’t her fault her kits died, because it completely was. I blame Oakstar and Ravenwing, but crossing the river was NOT smart. So are you suggesting she should do what exactly- She was almost forced to cross the river, because where else was she supposed to go? She was forced out of her camp for loving a cat in another clan, and couldn't REALLY control having kits, (Although It was wrong of her to mate with Appledusk Then, her mate DENIED EVER LOVING HER, AND ABANDONING HER. Also, she was in so much pain, having the voices of her kits echoing in her mind, and the cats she killed mostly deserved it, (other than Frecklewish, since she was lies to, and probably Reedshine, except I genuinely don't like Reedshine, just because I imagine her being very clingy and would probably be so damn rude to Mapleshade because she would still love her man.) Though, she did deserve to go to the DF. Also, Appledusk is actually the worst cat that ever lived, in my opinion, and deserved to go though the DF, but that would be weird with Mapleshade. Spoiler! He went to Starclan >:< Defending a whole murderer and then in the same exact sentence saying that Reedshine sucks because "she would be clingy" even though we've seen barely any of her characterization is just wild to me. Jumping to the conclusion that the Wife Character must be clingy and annoying and mean to the one that the Big Bad Cheater Character had a fling with is also kind of weird, imo. Plus we've been over this - there was places for her to go. I'd also argue that her lying about her kits being Birchface's contributed to her exile, especially considering that Oakstar was his father, he probably had that in mind when exiling her. And again, we've been over this... Appledusk doesn't deserve DF for cheating on someone and he doesn't deserve it for apologising at the last second. Him "abandoning" Mapleshade is fair, she lead their kits to their deaths. There were other places for her to go. And not to mention, Darkstar is the one that turned her away, not Appledusk. Being mentally unstable does not excuse murder, and it never will. (Also Mapleshade never killed Reedshine? She tried, but Appledusk sacrificed himself for her. Bold moves from someone who is completely unapologetic of his actions.)
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Oct 13, 2023 20:24:59 GMT -5
She was awful after her kits died.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Oct 13, 2023 21:37:51 GMT -5
She was awful after her kits died. She was kind of already awful. Overly possessive of Appledusk (when Reedshine walked up to him at the Gathering she got mad), manipulated Birchface's death for self benefit (while I do think it was right for her to have her kits' safety in mind, queens are not obligated to disclose the father of their kits. She let a grieving family believe that there was a remnant of their lost loved one left in those kits), and also brought her 3 month old kits to a river when they weren't even allowed out of camp. That last one isn't as bad, but it was incredibly reckless anyway. (especially considering it was the riverclan border she brought them to. she's lucky appledusk showed up instead of someone else, if the thunderclan medicine cat can tell that mapleshade's kits are appledusk's then so could any of appledusk's clanmates)
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Oct 15, 2023 18:40:19 GMT -5
She was awful after her kits died. She was kind of already awful. Overly possessive of Appledusk (when Reedshine walked up to him at the Gathering she got mad), manipulated Birchface's death for self benefit (while I do think it was right for her to have her kits' safety in mind, queens are not obligated to disclose the father of their kits. She let a grieving family believe that there was a remnant of their lost loved one left in those kits), and also brought her 3 month old kits to a river when they weren't even allowed out of camp. That last one isn't as bad, but it was incredibly reckless anyway. (especially considering it was the riverclan border she brought them to. she's lucky appledusk showed up instead of someone else, if the thunderclan medicine cat can tell that mapleshade's kits are appledusk's then so could any of appledusk's clanmates) If I remember right, she intended to tell the truth later on as ThunderClan and RiverClan were not on good terms at the time. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree as to when she became awful.
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Oct 16, 2023 2:32:01 GMT -5
Takes two to tango. Appledusk made those kits too, to be fair, and he got no punishment, unlike Mapleshade, who was exiled. But she shouldn't have killed anyone. But I honestly don't know where she could have gone, because most places required crossing water anyways, and there was probably going to be plentiful patrols from Thunderclan because of the Mapleshade incident. But ya'll are right, she shouldn't have done what she did.
Also, I didn't mean to give off any negativity or aggression, so sorry if it seemed that way.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Oct 16, 2023 2:47:46 GMT -5
She was kind of already awful. Overly possessive of Appledusk (when Reedshine walked up to him at the Gathering she got mad), manipulated Birchface's death for self benefit (while I do think it was right for her to have her kits' safety in mind, queens are not obligated to disclose the father of their kits. She let a grieving family believe that there was a remnant of their lost loved one left in those kits), and also brought her 3 month old kits to a river when they weren't even allowed out of camp. That last one isn't as bad, but it was incredibly reckless anyway. (especially considering it was the riverclan border she brought them to. she's lucky appledusk showed up instead of someone else, if the thunderclan medicine cat can tell that mapleshade's kits are appledusk's then so could any of appledusk's clanmates) If I remember right, she intended to tell the truth later on as ThunderClan and RiverClan were not on good terms at the time. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree as to when she became awful. Having the intention to tell the truth later or not, she still manipulated a grieving family.
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Oct 16, 2023 23:43:04 GMT -5
guys can we just vote "good or bad" and see which vote wins.
(Edit, I mean as in a good character, not as in is she good or bad, like is she an angel or she a villain.)
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Oct 18, 2023 17:39:00 GMT -5
If I remember right, she intended to tell the truth later on as ThunderClan and RiverClan were not on good terms at the time. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree as to when she became awful. Having the intention to tell the truth later or not, she still manipulated a grieving family. True, but I never said she didn't manipulate a grieving family.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 18, 2023 20:21:08 GMT -5
I feel like this argument is brought up a lot, and the simple answer is that it's not as black and white, the situation that is.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Oct 19, 2023 5:19:09 GMT -5
Having the intention to tell the truth later or not, she still manipulated a grieving family. True, but I never said she didn't manipulate a grieving family. My point was that you saying "we'll have to agree to disagree as to when she became awful" implies that you (at least this is how I interpreted what you said) think her manipulating a grieving family wasn't the first awful thing she did, and it was something later on, due to her having the intention to tell the truth later on. I was saying that I think that was pretty damn bad, even if she had the intention to tell the truth sooner or later, she still played with people's emotions and lied on the name of a dead person.
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