Rainbow
! Wisp !
Sorry y'all, school kicked my *ss
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Post by ! Wisp ! on May 22, 2023 19:29:41 GMT -5
Let me first start *ahem*- Graystripe should've never gave up Featherkit & Stormkit.
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Post by ! $abir (Ġray) ! on May 22, 2023 19:31:12 GMT -5
Millie was a bad mom, that’s my hot take
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Post by cable on May 22, 2023 19:47:08 GMT -5
crowfeather was abusive towards breezepaw and the fandom babies him to an absurd degree for his objectively shitty parenting. me about to explode when i see the 30th pmv or map or whatever about how crowfeather is a sad boy who never did anything wrong and its all everybody elses fault.
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Rainbow
! Wisp !
Sorry y'all, school kicked my *ss
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Post by ! Wisp ! on May 22, 2023 20:22:10 GMT -5
Crowfeather is just not the best person, imo. There was no real reason why he should have avoided Breezepelt & treated him like another clan cat instead of a son. I always hated Crowfeather for not even meeting the bare minimum of being a father to Breezepelt.
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Post by Rippleshine on May 22, 2023 21:04:17 GMT -5
(looks up what a hot take is) *clears throat* alderheart and puddleshine belong together
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on May 23, 2023 2:06:19 GMT -5
- no idea why this is a hot take considering the fact that its literally just correct but appledusk doesnt actually deserve dark forest - crowfeather isnt that good of a character - jayfeather isnt that good of a character either, his personality is irritating and i hate when he inserts his opinion to random conversations when it's completely unneeded. the fandom treats him like hes just a "silly baby owo boy! hes just grumpy!" no hes literally just an ass. like i would absolutely despise that dude if i ever met him irl - curlfeather wasnt that great of a mother actually - you arent a bad person for liking rainflower or lizardstripe or any of the abusive characters. they're acknowledged as abusive they are antagonists. they're there to cause problems, that's the point of their characters and it isnt bad to like them - reedshine isnt a bad person for forgiving appledusk... forgiveness doesn't make you a demon and you don't deserve the dark forest for it - blizzardwing having a whole family with two she-cats at once without the other knowing and then getting away with it because one of the only person who knew was his son who kept his secret is kind of bad. featherstorm never knowing about it is ridiculous, especially since she stayed with blizzardwing and they had kits later on. hollyflower was also a bad person for knowingly having kits with someone who has a mate already - leopardfoot was a great mother but she should've picked a different mentor for tigerkit - sandstorm's death was honestly so ridiculous. she was the mate of the mascot for the series and the protagonist, mother of two protagonists, grandmother of four protagonists, was alive in the prophecies begin, generally regarded as one of the most well-known cats, made it through the great journey, outlived her 9 lives mate (who she is a little older than), fought in the great battle only to die in a ditch away from the clans before they could even make it to skyclan from an infected wound because alderheart is couldn't remember a damn herb. she doesnt even get buried near her family or her home because they're away from the clans. only for a few pages worth of guilt. so irritating
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on May 23, 2023 5:18:53 GMT -5
Millie is a bad mom and I sympathize with Blossomfall
I like Skystar, Star Flower, and their relationship.
I prefer Gray Wing X Slate over Gray Wing X Turtle Tail.
I like Jayfeather's travel plot and I like his romance with Half Moon.
I like Lionblaze X Cinderheart.
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Post by Shadowfire on May 23, 2023 6:28:00 GMT -5
*Ahem* Squirrelflight belongs with nobody.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2023 10:28:00 GMT -5
Relationship Hot Takes:
- In my headcanon world, I ship Squirrelflight x Spiderleg - I love Gray Wing x Slate - Clear Sky x Star Flower - I don't like Violet Dawn x Thunder - I think Silverstream x Fireheart would be a good ship
Naming Hot takes:
Meadowslip isn't a good mother for naming her kit "Deadkit" (and you thought "Crookedkit" was bad) I don't really care for the names Snowfur and Bluefur I like Crookedstar's name, not the reason for it, but I think the name is cool. Despite my traditionalist naming style, I don't like the suffix 'fur' that much.
Clan Culture:
The Clans have spiritual purification?! The medicine cat rule would be good for the first arc and maybe the second half, but not the other series BloodClan and the actual Clans have litter difference
Character Hot takes: Hollyleaf can murder Ashfur and her own mother, but she can't stay a doctor for a month I think Hollyleaf is a selfish character Barley is overrated Silverstream is a good character
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Heterosexual
#64c1a0
Name Colour
𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙
𝙼𝚘𝚘𝚛 𝚁𝚞𝚗𝚗𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚒𝚜 𝚜𝚞𝚙𝚎𝚛𝚒𝚘𝚛.
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Post by 𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙 on May 23, 2023 10:49:54 GMT -5
Naming Hot takes: Meadowslip isn't a good mother for naming her kit "Deadkit" (and you thought "Crookedkit" was bad)I don't really care for the names Snowfur and Bluefur I like Crookedstar's name, not the reason for it, but I think the name is cool. Despite my traditionalist naming style, I don't like the suffix 'fur' that much. Meadowslip actually named him Hopkit, but then during his apprentice’s ceremony, Heatherstar renamed him to Deadpaw. If I recall correctly, Meadowslip wasn’t happy with the decision to rename him.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2023 11:00:46 GMT -5
Ah, I haven't read Tallstar's revenge in a long time, so excuse my comment.
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Heterosexual
#64c1a0
Name Colour
𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙
𝙼𝚘𝚘𝚛 𝚁𝚞𝚗𝚗𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚒𝚜 𝚜𝚞𝚙𝚎𝚛𝚒𝚘𝚛.
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Post by 𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙 on May 23, 2023 12:56:09 GMT -5
Ah, I haven't read Tallstar's revenge in a long time, so excuse my comment. It’s all good lol
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on May 23, 2023 13:08:09 GMT -5
Ravenwing, Appledusk, and Reedshine were all victims despite making shitty decisions.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2023 13:17:26 GMT -5
Reedshine didn't do much through. And if she's the same one that risked her life for her apprentice in Botc, then she doesn't seem bad.
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Post by Rippleshine on May 24, 2023 9:47:25 GMT -5
Ravenwing, Appledusk, and Reedshine were all victims despite making shitty decisions. ravenwing and appledusk deserved it. (she should have killed darkstar and/or oakstar too)
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Heterosexual
Wildbriar
On vacation--expect spotty activity
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Post by Wildbriar on May 24, 2023 10:18:25 GMT -5
- no idea why this is a hot take considering the fact that its literally just correct but appledusk doesnt actually deserve dark forest - crowfeather isnt that good of a character - jayfeather isnt that good of a character either, his personality is irritating and i hate when he inserts his opinion to random conversations when it's completely unneeded. the fandom treats him like hes just a "silly baby owo boy! hes just grumpy!" no hes literally just an ass. like i would absolutely despise that dude if i ever met him irl - curlfeather wasnt that great of a mother actually
- you arent a bad person for liking rainflower or lizardstripe or any of the abusive characters. they're acknowledged as abusive they are antagonists. they're there to cause problems, that's the point of their characters and it isnt bad to like them - reedshine isnt a bad person for forgiving appledusk... forgiveness doesn't make you a demon and you don't deserve the dark forest for it - blizzardwing having a whole family with two she-cats at once without the other knowing and then getting away with it because one of the only person who knew was his son who kept his secret is kind of bad. featherstorm never knowing about it is ridiculous, especially since she stayed with blizzardwing and they had kits later on. hollyflower was also a bad person for knowingly having kits with someone who has a mate already - leopardfoot was a great mother but she should've picked a different mentor for tigerkit - sandstorm's death was honestly so ridiculous. she was the mate of the mascot for the series and the protagonist, mother of two protagonists, grandmother of four protagonists, was alive in the prophecies begin, generally regarded as one of the most well-known cats, made it through the great journey, outlived her 9 lives mate (who she is a little older than), fought in the great battle only to die in a ditch away from the clans before they could even make it to skyclan from an infected wound because alderheart is couldn't remember a damn herb. she doesnt even get buried near her family or her home because they're away from the clans. only for a few pages worth of guilt. so irritating I'm curious why you think Curlfeather isn't a great mother? I don't necessarily disagree with you; I'm just wondering how you construct your argument because I don't remember anything negative about Curlfeather.
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Post by hazelmaeda on May 24, 2023 16:02:45 GMT -5
- Squirrelflight would have been better if she hadn't been made deputy. - Rowanstar literally did nothing to get the abuse he did from his Clanmates, the Kin, and the fandom. The guy was literally sick for crying out loud! - Daisy's character is handled terribly after Bramblestar's Storm kills off Spiderleg. - Ashfur's character in TBC is a retcon. He was brought back for fanservice but his other goals to "destroy the Clans" were retconned and only made because the series needed a plot that would actually make cats want to get rid of him. Even his relationship with other cats he grew up alongside weren't even mentioned.
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Heterosexual
#64c1a0
Name Colour
𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙
𝙼𝚘𝚘𝚛 𝚁𝚞𝚗𝚗𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚒𝚜 𝚜𝚞𝚙𝚎𝚛𝚒𝚘𝚛.
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Post by 𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙 on May 26, 2023 9:30:00 GMT -5
I don’t mind having so many solid gray protagonists.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on May 26, 2023 21:20:39 GMT -5
Ravenwing, Appledusk, and Reedshine were all victims despite making shitty decisions. ravenwing and appledusk deserved it. (she should have killed darkstar and/or oakstar too) how do either of them deserve it? ravenwing was literally just doing his job. starclan sent him a sign that the kits weren't birchface's. they wouldn't give him, the only person that speaks with starclan, this information if they didn't want him to tell the clan leader. mapleshade broke the code, ravenwing finding out and staying silent makes him guilty too. also i genuinely am curious about why appledusk deserves dark forest - i see a lot of people saying it's because he abandoned mapleshade in her time of need, but like... just because she's grieving doesn't mean he's obligated to stay with her. he has the choice to break up with her, nobody should be forced to stay with someone. i think his only bad decision was moving on from mapleshade too quickly also what did darkstar do? again, like with appledusk, she's not obligated to invite a stranger that broke the code into her clan because she's grieving. there's plenty places she could've gone to - twolegplace, the barn, etc. she only let appledusk stay because she could speak for his character and he was a well-respected member of the clan that clearly regretted his decision. she couldn't speak for mapleshade's character - she just turned up one day after being exiled, and what's she supposed to think after that? if her own clan couldn't sympathise with her, why should riverclan? (also if anyone found out about mapleshade staying in riverclan, that could invite conflict with thunderclan AND starclan. darkstar put her clan before this stranger that was exiled from thunderclan, and that's a good decision. no good leader puts her clan in jeopardy for the sake of a rogue that could live elsewhere.)
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Post by Rippleshine on May 26, 2023 23:57:48 GMT -5
ravenwing and appledusk deserved it. (she should have killed darkstar and/or oakstar too) how do either of them deserve it? ravenwing was literally just doing his job. starclan sent him a sign that the kits weren't birchface's. they wouldn't give him, the only person that speaks with starclan, this information if they didn't want him to tell the clan leader. mapleshade broke the code, ravenwing finding out and staying silent makes him guilty too. also i genuinely am curious about why appledusk deserves dark forest - i see a lot of people saying it's because he abandoned mapleshade in her time of need, but like... just because she's grieving doesn't mean he's obligated to stay with her. he has the choice to break up with her, nobody should be forced to stay with someone. i think his only bad decision was moving on from mapleshade too quickly also what did darkstar do? again, like with appledusk, she's not obligated to invite a stranger that broke the code into her clan because she's grieving. there's plenty places she could've gone to - twolegplace, the barn, etc. she only let appledusk stay because she could speak for his character and he was a well-respected member of the clan that clearly regretted his decision. she couldn't speak for mapleshade's character - she just turned up one day after being exiled, and what's she supposed to think after that? if her own clan couldn't sympathise with her, why should riverclan? (also if anyone found out about mapleshade staying in riverclan, that could invite conflict with thunderclan AND starclan. darkstar put her clan before this stranger that was exiled from thunderclan, and that's a good decision. no good leader puts her clan in jeopardy for the sake of a rogue that could live elsewhere.) if ravenwing had left her alone, no one would have known, her kits would be alive, she wouldn't have gone to the df and she wouldn't have trained thisleclaw, and tigerstar, or killed spottedleaf, or tried to kill sandstorm, and most of the problems in the series would be solved. (but you have good points for the others)
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Post by cable on May 27, 2023 0:30:11 GMT -5
my issue with ravenwing isnt even telling oakstar. its that he like. didnt show any signs of concern while kits were being exiled. it confuses me how people defend him just “staring coldly” while kits are exiled. didnt even bother to look worried. people got worked up when mothwing was pretty understandably slightly rude to shadowsight. can you even imagine the riots if a modern medicine cat just stood by and glared as kits were exiled? i dont even hold him to very high standards, i dont care if a character messes up. the whole idea is that we’re supposed to sympathize with him because hes inexperienced, but they dont really do anything to actually hint that this incident was a consequence of said inexperience. he just…. acts horribly.
idk man i feel like even somebody whos young would generally show slight concern or speak up if they have an actual position of power (but like. all of thunderclan acted godawful in that scene so what should i expect like lol bye kids good luck out there. your fault for popping out of the wrong woman). wouldve been so easy for the writers to mention him doing literally any action that could hint at concern for the kits (shifting uncomfortably or something, even? something mapleshade could read as hostile towards her but the reader can interpret as being worried? like. idk man its just WEIRD).
am i making sense its like midnight for me rn lol
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Post by ! $abir (Ġray) ! on May 27, 2023 0:32:07 GMT -5
Also, Ravenwings sign might not even have meant that the kits weren’t Birchfaces, the sign could have also been showing that the kits would be swept away in the river
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Post by cable on May 27, 2023 0:36:49 GMT -5
Also, Ravenwings sign might not even have meant that the kits weren’t Birchfaces, the sign could have also been showing that the kits would be swept away in the river yeah thats another thing. like obviously that goes into headcanon territory but also it could be intentional because ravenwing lacked experience. idk my ideal for ravenwing would be that he gets the sign, confronts mapleshade, tells oakstar, but as the kits are exiled he kinda. looks tense/worried/whatever. it can be something not super obvious so maple can just interpret it how she likes, but the reader can actually realize that hes alarmed, but his youth and inexperience make him too afraid or nervous to stand up to oakstar over the issue. they could even just outright remove the scene of him glaring and replace it with nothing and id be way more sympathetic overall.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on May 27, 2023 1:57:56 GMT -5
how do either of them deserve it? ravenwing was literally just doing his job. starclan sent him a sign that the kits weren't birchface's. they wouldn't give him, the only person that speaks with starclan, this information if they didn't want him to tell the clan leader. mapleshade broke the code, ravenwing finding out and staying silent makes him guilty too. also i genuinely am curious about why appledusk deserves dark forest - i see a lot of people saying it's because he abandoned mapleshade in her time of need, but like... just because she's grieving doesn't mean he's obligated to stay with her. he has the choice to break up with her, nobody should be forced to stay with someone. i think his only bad decision was moving on from mapleshade too quickly also what did darkstar do? again, like with appledusk, she's not obligated to invite a stranger that broke the code into her clan because she's grieving. there's plenty places she could've gone to - twolegplace, the barn, etc. she only let appledusk stay because she could speak for his character and he was a well-respected member of the clan that clearly regretted his decision. she couldn't speak for mapleshade's character - she just turned up one day after being exiled, and what's she supposed to think after that? if her own clan couldn't sympathise with her, why should riverclan? (also if anyone found out about mapleshade staying in riverclan, that could invite conflict with thunderclan AND starclan. darkstar put her clan before this stranger that was exiled from thunderclan, and that's a good decision. no good leader puts her clan in jeopardy for the sake of a rogue that could live elsewhere.) if ravenwing had left her alone, no one would have known, her kits would be alive, she wouldn't have gone to the df and she wouldn't have trained thisleclaw, and tigerstar, or killed spottedleaf, or tried to kill sandstorm, and most of the problems in the series would be solved. (but you have good points for the others) right, it's his fault, but those clearly were not his intentions. mapleshade broke the code, she should've been ready to deal with the consequences of it. and as i said, starclan sent him a sign telling him that mapleshade's kits weren't actually hers. why would they tell him if they didn't want him to do anything with that information? also, medicine cats are generally supposed to tell their leaders when they get a sign. he was just doing his job, he clearly didn't mean for anything else to happen. he can't predict the future - instead of blaming ravenwing, you should blame mapleshade. all of those things are her fault because she got herself exiled by breaking the code. she was the one that killed all those cats, she was the one that trained thistleclaw, she was the one that trained tigerstar. all of those actions were her own, not ravenwing's.
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Post by Rippleshine on May 27, 2023 7:51:04 GMT -5
if ravenwing had left her alone, no one would have known, her kits would be alive, she wouldn't have gone to the df and she wouldn't have trained thisleclaw, and tigerstar, or killed spottedleaf, or tried to kill sandstorm, and most of the problems in the series would be solved. (but you have good points for the others) right, it's his fault, but those clearly were not his intentions. mapleshade broke the code, she should've been ready to deal with the consequences of it. and as i said, starclan sent him a sign telling him that mapleshade's kits weren't actually hers. why would they tell him if they didn't want him to do anything with that information? also, medicine cats are generally supposed to tell their leaders when they get a sign. he was just doing his job, he clearly didn't mean for anything else to happen. he can't predict the future - instead of blaming ravenwing, you should blame mapleshade. all of those things are her fault because she got herself exiled by breaking the code. she was the one that killed all those cats, she was the one that trained thistleclaw, she was the one that trained tigerstar. all of those actions were her own, not ravenwing's. graystripe turned out pretty well with no one knowing till the last minute, and who cares what starclan says. you're right, the actions were hers, but it doesn't change the fact they still happened because of a snitch called ravenwing
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on May 27, 2023 15:14:15 GMT -5
right, it's his fault, but those clearly were not his intentions. mapleshade broke the code, she should've been ready to deal with the consequences of it. and as i said, starclan sent him a sign telling him that mapleshade's kits weren't actually hers. why would they tell him if they didn't want him to do anything with that information? also, medicine cats are generally supposed to tell their leaders when they get a sign. he was just doing his job, he clearly didn't mean for anything else to happen. he can't predict the future - instead of blaming ravenwing, you should blame mapleshade. all of those things are her fault because she got herself exiled by breaking the code. she was the one that killed all those cats, she was the one that trained thistleclaw, she was the one that trained tigerstar. all of those actions were her own, not ravenwing's. graystripe turned out pretty well with no one knowing till the last minute, and who cares what starclan says. you're right, the actions were hers, but it doesn't change the fact they still happened because of a snitch called ravenwing Ravenwing was only doing his job, and he took no side during the exile. He never vocally agreed with Oakstar but never stood up to defend Mapleshade. That was all he did. Ravenwing only reported the code-breaking because that's what he's supposed to do. Its not his responsability to cover up for his clanmate's mistakes, especially when he got a sign from StarClan, their ancestors. Its like God coming down and telling me of a future tragedy i need to prevent. I just can't say no, even if it may seem easy from the perspective of the readers. It was Mapleshade who took the decision to cross the river, not Ravenwing. Graystripe is a different case. He wasn't lying to his clanmates about his kits' parentage and using a cat to gain favour (you could say Fireheart but he wasn't lying to him about the kits being his dead brother's), he didn't have cats suspecting they were not ThunderClan due to their bad pouncing, and he definitely wasn't exposing himself like Mapleshade when she took her kits outside camp to swim and inmmediately talking with his mate right after. Not to mention when the entire Clan knew, he wasn't exiled because of the the first reason i've mentioned above.
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Post by cable on May 27, 2023 15:36:12 GMT -5
graystripe turned out pretty well with no one knowing till the last minute, and who cares what starclan says. you're right, the actions were hers, but it doesn't change the fact they still happened because of a snitch called ravenwing Ravenwing was only doing his job, and he took no side during the exile. He never vocally agreed with Oakstar but never stood up to defend Mapleshade. i mentioned it before, but he did basically take a side. hes stated to be “glaring/staring icily” at mapleshade the whole time. even if he didnt verbally say anything, its kinda clear what side he was on.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on May 27, 2023 18:05:16 GMT -5
Ravenwing was only doing his job, and he took no side during the exile. He never vocally agreed with Oakstar but never stood up to defend Mapleshade. i mentioned it before, but he did basically take a side. hes stated to be “glaring/staring icily” at mapleshade the whole time. even if he didnt verbally say anything, its kinda clear what side he was on. cannot disagree harder with this take that one note of Ravenwing “looking coldly” is a sign of anything. A lot of people when in difficult situations adopt an apathetic visage or “poker face” if you will. I am one such person. I’ve actually gotten flack from other people/family before for not reacting visibly to stuff (because I feel conflicted inside but don’t know how or what to express for fear of expressing the “wrong thing”). It does not mean anything inherently and definitely doesn’t mean Ravenwing cared nothing about the kits’ fate. It means an effectually apathetic visage and we have no idea what was going on his head. and besides this, i think everyone needs to remember that Mapleshade might be a potentially unreliable narrator. I.e. her perception of events and interpretation of suhh might be a little skewed.
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Post by cable on May 27, 2023 18:18:55 GMT -5
i mentioned it before, but he did basically take a side. hes stated to be “glaring/staring icily” at mapleshade the whole time. even if he didnt verbally say anything, its kinda clear what side he was on. cannot disagree harder with this take that one note of Ravenwing “looking coldly” is a sign of anything. A lot of people when in difficult situations adopt an apathetic visage or “poker face” if you will. I am one such person. I’ve actually gotten flack from other people/family before for not reacting visibly to stuff (because I feel conflicted inside but don’t know how or what to express for fear of expressing the “wrong thing”). It does not mean anything inherently and definitely doesn’t mean Ravenwing cared nothing about the kits’ fate. It means an effectually apathetic visage and we have no idea what was going on his head. and besides this, i think everyone needs to remember that Mapleshade might be a potentially unreliable narrator. I.e. her perception of events and interpretation of suhh might be a little skewed. gotta disagree. i think you are putting too much faith in the writing of this series as far as this stuff goes. like, im autistic, i have gotten shit for a flat face, but i severely doubt the writers were thinking about that. besides which, ravenwings look being described not just as cold or distant but as “icy”, along with his earlier acknowledgement that the kits would suffer evoke a very clear intention here imo. my dislike of him is honestly pretty personal but nothing in his writing suggests that he was on mapleshades/the kits side here, besides him saying he felt bad that the kids would suffer. talk is cheap, and he does nothing to actually help, so i cant trust his word here. i am struggling to articulate my thoughts so properly so i think this is a case where i need to say “agree to disagree”
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