Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Currently sick with the flu...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on May 12, 2023 15:28:29 GMT -5
So, after reading Shadow last month, I did think that Sunbeam going from being heartbroken over Nightheart leaving ShadowClan (and her) to go back to ThunderClan (and his family) at the end of her last chapter in that book, to joining ThunderClan in the final chapter of the book (from Nightheart's PoV) and essentially proclaiming her love for him (forgot her exact words and currently don't have the book near me), was a tad abrupt.
Then again, I did see some explanations by other users on here on a different thread, saying that she most likely just realized her feelings were too strong/deep for him at that point to not go after him in the attempt of joining his Clan.
But what if her feelings had changed after he left? What if her feeling abandoned/betrayed by him failing his final assessment on purpose had indeed made her feel as if "Berryheart could be right", like she did briefly consider/think at the end of her chapter (paraphrasing here), when she let Berryheart comfort her after Nightheart had left?
It would just be so much more interesting if Sunbeam followed Nightheart to ThunderClan pretending to be in love with him, while actually having been persuaded by her mother Berryheart to infiltrate ThunderClan, either for personal revenge (hopefully not) or to try and actually stop Squirrelflight from eventually attacking ShadowClan due to the rising tensions between the Clans regarding ShadowClan's "friendly" temporary takeover when it comes to RiverClan (hoping this one is true instead).
And no, I'm not hoping for an evil Sunbeam plotline here and also not a jilted/vengeful storyline for her to take revenge on Nightheart (as that would highkey suck and be unnecessarily cliche). Rather, I'd like to see her be put onto the wrong path/get used by her mother for a bit while she's vulnerable (which would indeed be very cruel on Berryheart's part) but then realize it (perhaps even quickly next book) and instead make up her own mind/come to a decision on how to handle the conflict between her new Clan and her former Clan on her own terms (or she'll immediately rejoin ShadowClan again, who knows).
Yes, I know this is most likely not the case and Sunbeam instead truly is madly in love with Nightheart (sigh)...
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Post by vectoring34 on May 13, 2023 11:26:04 GMT -5
Wait, is this NOT what most people think? It seems so obvious with how sudden the emotional whiplash is after her confiding in her mother that Sunbeam is obviously there to use Nightheart. Turnabout is fair play and all, and she has a motive as well due to how Thunderclan leadership affects Tigerhearts conquest fantasies.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 13, 2023 11:35:10 GMT -5
I think I actually said something like this on another thread. Either way, it'd certainly be way more interesting than just another love story, but given that this series has plenty of missed opportunities already, I really won't be surprised if her feelings are genuine.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Currently sick with the flu...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on May 13, 2023 14:03:12 GMT -5
Wait, is this NOT what most people think? It seems so obvious with how sudden the emotional whiplash is after her confiding in her mother that Sunbeam is obviously there to use Nightheart. Turnabout is fair play and all, and she has a motive as well due to how Thunderclan leadership affects Tigerhearts conquest fantasies. While I do think there are more people in the overall fandom who hope this will be the actual case, I've not seen a thread about it made on here (I'm most definitely not the one who "came up" with this theory and have indeed seen other people make similar remarks to mine in other fandom spaces but also just wanted to write up my own perspective on the matter to get it out of my head/system). My thread could kinda be seen as a late response to another thread from before Shadow came out (when the spoiler thread was discussed): wcrpforums.com/thread/91336/chapter-shadow-spoilers Here back then, most people commenting on it seemed to think it did make sense for Sunbeam to leave ShadowClan to live with Nightheart in ThunderClan instead out of love, not a possible case of her pretending to be in love to spy on ThunderClan for Berryheart (or get revenge).
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Post by stupidflower on May 13, 2023 14:38:50 GMT -5
This would certainly be a more interesting route. I’m torn between wanting this and hating it. I’d love Berryheart manipulation at play, I’d love if Sunbeam didn’t just get over Nightheart leaving, I’d love if she hadn’t put him above her friends back in ShadowClan, not to mention how interesting it would be. However, I like Sunbeam and don’t want her to go down a Mapleshade-esque route, I want to see Berryheart’s reaction to Sunbeams genuinely leaving and the problems it would cause. I like NightSun and am willing to give it a chance after Shadow, and this would probably just cause more angst for both Sunbeam and Nightheart. I want to see how Sunbeam’s ShC clanmates react, how her father reacts as well as her mother, how Lightleap and Blazefir react. I mostly am just a sucker for happy endings to be honest. I am somewhat hoping for this route, but certainly won’t be disappointed if it is not taken.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Currently sick with the flu...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on May 13, 2023 14:53:31 GMT -5
This would certainly be a more interesting route. I’m torn between wanting this and hating it. I’d love Berryheart manipulation at play, I’d love if Sunbeam didn’t just get over Nightheart leaving, I’d love if she hadn’t put him above her friends back in ShadowClan, not to mention how interesting it would be. However, I like Sunbeam and don’t want her to go down a Mapleshade-esque route, I want to see Berryheart’s reaction to Sunbeams genuinely leaving and the problems it would cause. I like NightSun and am willing to give it a chance after Shadow, and this would probably just cause more angst for both Sunbeam and Nightheart. I want to see how Sunbeam’s ShC clanmates react, how her father reacts as well as her mother, how Lightleap and Blazefir react. I mostly am just a sucker for happy endings to be honest. I am somewhat hoping for this route, but certainly won’t be disappointed if it is not taken. I personally am also torn, solely for the reason of Berryheart not actually being involved and instead having a meltdown over "her daughter's betrayal" (would just love to see that). But on the other hand, I wouldn't want for Sunbeam to be evil either anyways (as stated in my initial comment, the second to last paragraph). Moreso, seeing her get used/manipulated by her own mother while she's still heartbroken but realizing this not long afterwards and switching sides/allegiances (actively working against her) without Berryheart knowing (until her plans are foiled/it's too late, for example). It would showcase Berryheart's ruthlessness in regards to her achieving her goals and using her own daughter like this while making it clear in the end that Sunbeam was a victim of manipulation, not any over the top/unnecessary "Mapleshade/Ashfur" business. Bu now I'm thinking of a "Mapleshade possessing Sunbeam" AU for this arc despite not wanting her to appear at all. HELP...
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Post by vectoring34 on May 13, 2023 15:41:59 GMT -5
Wait, is this NOT what most people think? It seems so obvious with how sudden the emotional whiplash is after her confiding in her mother that Sunbeam is obviously there to use Nightheart. Turnabout is fair play and all, and she has a motive as well due to how Thunderclan leadership affects Tigerhearts conquest fantasies. While I do think there are more people in the overall fandom who hope this will be the actual case, I've not seen a thread about it made on here (I'm most definitely not the one who "came up" with this theory and have indeed seen other people make similar remarks to mine in other fandom spaces but also just wanted to write up my own perspective on the matter to get it out of my head/system). My thread could kinda be seen as a late response to another thread from before Shadow came out (when the spoiler thread got posted/was discussed): wcrpforums.com/thread/91336/chapter-shadow-spoilers Here back then, most people commenting on it seemed to think it did make sense for Sunbeam to leave ShadowClan to live with Nightheart in ThunderClan instead out of love, not a possible case of her pretending to be in love to spy on ThunderClan for Berryheart (or get revenge). Weird that it’s not a more popular idea. It seems like the subtext the scene is going for, in my eyes anyway
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Asexual
#A3E4D7
Name Colour
🍄🎶✨Brambleheart✨🎶🍄
its april which means its time to bow down to the 'tism
Pronouns: She/her, they/them
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Post by 🍄🎶✨Brambleheart✨🎶🍄 on May 13, 2023 22:02:45 GMT -5
I.. I never thought of this. This is super interesting. We don't really have a protag who is also the villain for the series (besides Clear Sky but towards the end the narrative tried to make him an antihero). This arc seems to be fulfilling long requests by most of the fandom (RiverClan protags, female villains, a lot of people in other fandom circles really wanted/are excited for Squirrelstar, nepotism conversations, cats questioning old archaic laws, etc). I wouldn't be surprised if this is another thing the editors choose to provide!
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Post by nowarriornameshere on May 14, 2023 5:54:55 GMT -5
I considered the possibility, but disqualified it on the grounds that we saw Sunbeam's perspective not that long before. She's already gone back to being sick of her mother's bullshit. It would be an outright lie to the reader if that part was just made up. Even when Hollyleaf killed Ashfur, the narrative never outright lied to the reader. She merely avoided thinking about it as much as possible, commented that she'd be terrified if she was accused (which gains the additional context that she'd be terrified because it actually was her), and immediately folded when Leafpool actually revealed the truth. Saying "Sunbeam is actually in cahoots with her mother now" when it was previously established from her point of view that all she needed to shake off her mother's poisonous horseshit was a few nights of sleep would just cheapen it.
Now, I don't disagree that there might be SOMETHING going on here. Perhaps some ulterior motive. But I don't think it's to be her mother's pet spy. I don't think Berryheart would even WANT a pet spy, especially not for an agenda Tigerstar is trying to run.
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#8003F9
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on May 21, 2023 20:52:47 GMT -5
I can agree on this.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Currently sick with the flu...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on May 27, 2023 15:01:27 GMT -5
Bump
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