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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 11, 2023 11:41:36 GMT -5
I got my box of The Broken Code books delivered in the mail to me yesterday and am very excited to finally start reading this arc today. I'm well aware of most of the things which happened in this arc thanks to various spoiler threads and wiki articles but still have enough interest to read it for myself nonetheless. And I'm also late to the party but oh well, better late than never. Spoilers for the entire TBC arc so beware (to those who have not read it yet).wcrpforums.com/thread/90545/tbc-paperback-box-setJust a "quick" ramble/backstory about my personal feelings on this arc:This arc is somewhat/somehow a little special to me already because of me joining the Warriors fandom and starting to read the series again while it was still getting published (more specifically in April of 2020 when Veil of Shadows came out). I originally started reading these battle cat books when I was a child but lost interest and took a break during my teenage years (after Firestar died to me more precise). So imagine my surprise upon seeing a Youtube video about someone only known as "the impostor" (a Moonkitti video) show up in my recommendations back then after having given in to my nostalgia for these cat books and watching a few MAPs (newer and older ones). Needless to say, it managed to intrigue now early 20s year old me enough to come back to the series and even join the fandom "officially". I spoilered a lot of content for myself while then browsing the wiki for more info about "the impostor and what the actual heck was even going on in the series at this point" (mainly AVoS and the basic plot of TBC so far). But yeah, this arc already has "a place in my heart" so to speak because of that, for sounding wild enough in terms of the premise to bring me back into the world of these war kitties. #1 Lost StarsNotable moments in chronological order:Bristlepaw outright stating Shadowpaw to be her kin and even pointing out how (more of that)
Shadowpaw's vision of falling ash and seeing his father Tigerstar fighting against Bramblestar (I already knew about this but still though the imagery was cool and am looking forward to how this fight will end up truly happening in VoS)
Shadowpaw getting struck by lightning (that scene was just intense, in my opinion, and deserves its own mention, page 84 if I'm not mistaken for future quick reference on my part lol)
"Something is wrong with Bramblestar..." (Shadowpaw getting nudged by Bramblestar at a Gathering and thinking something is off, then Rootpaw later on seeing a "shadow" hanging over him/around him, just unsettling to read about even if one already knows what's coming)
Shadowpaw's first actual conversation with the StarClan spirit/impostor/Ashfur (Ashfur being so mocking of Bramblestar the entire time is quite a give-away in retrospect, although there were other options as to who the impostor could have also been instead of him)
Rosepetal's advice for Bristlefrost on how to get over Stemleaf (I personally like the "unrequited love/rejection" trope in this series much more than the, more often than not, "immature love drama" either preceeding/surrounding/following it with other pairings, although this might be because I'm just tired of romance drama with these battle cats in general at this point)
Bramblestar's breakdown on the patrol and then later on again in the medicine den (once again unsettling)
"Hooray!" - Breezepelt (them trying to break the ice was not but this bit in particular is just funny)
Trying to heal Bramblestar's "illness" by making it worse (that scene in the snow was quite sad already overall but especially Squirrelflight's grief at the end of it with the "I came back for you but you left me." made me feel even worse for her)
Bramblestar's funeral (I just liked how his Clan was grieving for him there but especially his family, Jayfeather's anger, Squirrelflight's utter devastation, it was just written well)
"I remember how much Bramblestar taught me when I was a kit and an apprentice. I believed he was my father then. He was the best father a cat could have." ―Lionblaze at Bramblestar's funeral in Lost Stars, page 250
"Bramblestar" coming back to life (that was once more, extremely unsettling and has been amazingly visualized with fanart and animation ever since the book came out)
Tawnypelt getting mentioned to be grieving for her brother when he is believed to have died and then later on looking hurt when "Bramblestar" talks about codebreakers at the emergency Gatherhing he called following his "recovery" (it was just "nice" to see her react)
Rootspring seeing Bramblestar's ghost (one of the best first book cliffhangers, hands paws down)
There wasn't really anything I outright disliked in this book, although I'm annoyed by Kitepaw and Turtlepaw bullying Rootpaw. While his sister Needlepaw was right in telling him to not get provoked by their taunting about his father, they are literally moons older apprentices than Rootpaw and his sister and should definitely know better than that. I'm aware that's the point but still. While the concept of protagonists facing more backlash/pushback in their own Clan is something I've missed ever since Lionblaze had his small rivalry with Berrynose, this is just not it for me. It does feel like a small callback to Sandpaw and Dustpaw taunting Firepaw though, because of them acting as a pair. Main Characters:
ShadowpawSo far, he's the most interesting to me in terms of his characterization, storyline and his visions. RootpawHe's interesting too and fairly likeable but not as much as the other two, for me personally. BristlepawMost likeable to me in terms of her characterization so far. Storyline:The plot of "darkness threatening the Clans" as well as the point of there being whitecough/greencough (some other color cough) while StarClan is either silent or arguing amongst themselves, has been used before (it makes up most of the arc/book descriptions in order to keep things generic enough to not spoiler everything happening in it, after all) and is also used as a starting point in the newest arc (ASC) as well just with a different "threat" and the reason for StarClan being silent this time around seemingly being a choice, not an outside/inside force Ashfur blocking their Wifi Clan access again. In this arc though, it does have a more eerie vibe to it and I agree with the sentiment getting voiced on here before that the overall atmosphere throughout the first book of TBC is especially ominous overall while reading it. There's just something in the air, so to speak. Here's a more "fun(n)y" spin of the whole "getting your body stolen by your wife's vengeful ex" plot scenario (this was one of the first videos I watched after restarting to read the series despite me having no idea what was even exactly going on at the time lmao) as well as a meme video of which the "I'm a bush." part just fits Tree perfectly:
But yeah, after finally having read this book, I honestly think that it's one of the best first books of this series overall (better than TFA or TAQ imo).
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 11, 2023 12:23:51 GMT -5
Awesome to see someone reintroduced at this series
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Bisexual
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 13, 2023 17:30:22 GMT -5
I got done reading this book yesterday already but stayed up pretty late (until 2AM to do so) and then had not much energy to write down my gathered thoughts (usually write those down in my phone's note app as I read). #2 The Silent ThawNotable moments in chronological order:Bramblestar's ghost appearing to Rootspring at the gathering while "Bramblestar" is there too
"Bramblestar" putting his "trust" into Bristlefrost (using her to spy on her own Clanmates and report any potential codebreaking)
RIP Antfur (falling down a tree due to his head injury, hey that kinda rhymed but not really)
"Bramblestar" banishing Lionblaze for a quarter moon and forbidding any Clanmate from talking to Spotfur for that same amount of time because of them overstepping the WindClan border, which Bristlefrost saw and reported)
Rootpaw embarrassing Bristlefrost by claiming to have tresspassed on ThunderClan territory to see her (which gets viewed by the present ThunderClan cats as a crush that she clearly does not return/reciprocate at this point)
"Everyone knows he has a crush on you." Makes Bristlefrost feel uncomfortable so far everytime Rootpaw's crush gets mentioned in any way (twice by Squirrelflight and once by Stemleaf). There is only one moment on page 150 wrre she mentions to feel reassured by it but this still is also only in relation to Stemleaf's previous rejection of her (I'm mentioning this for my conclusive thoughts about BristleRoot as a ship at the end of this thread after I've read the other TBC books)
Leafstar wanting to be diplomatic in regards to "Bramblestar's" ideas about the codebreakers and possible punishments at first because she doesn't want for SkyClan to be the target or anger for the other Clans once more, is honestly such a mood for her, I can see where she came from with that. Of course, it's a bonus that no SkyClan was named at the time (which makes sense since this "Bramblestar" wouldn't know much about them in the first place, after all)
"Shut up!" - Rootpaw to Bramblestar's ghost but also "Bramblestar" at the gathering
Sparkpelt getting punished by "Bramblestar" because of her looking for Lionblaze for a bit instead of hunting (as reported by Bristlefrost), by him sending her to the abandoned twoleg nest where he had lured dogs towards via storing some prey there, is truly a chilling moment. Had Bramblestar tried to murder his own daughter? Getting thought by Bristlefrost at the end of the chapter really sent chills down my spine despite knowing that it wasn't actually Bramblestar who had done that. Holy crap, Ashfur really went and took a page out of Tigerstar's book there (his mother's murderer)
Lionblaze returning and his brotherly moment with Jayfeather (love it, just love it) Jayfeather, purring: "Lionblaze! Are you well? Have you had enough to eat?" Lionblaze: "I'm fine." Jayfeather: "I want you to come to the medicine den so I can check you over properly, you smell a bit sour." —Brotherly love in The Silent Thaw, pages 202-203
Squirrelflight realizing that "Bramblestar" is not her real mate and being subtle about finding that out (she did a good job of only talking to Bristlefrost and Rootpaw about it when he was not around her)
The first rebel meeting against Bramblestar (this book took me much longer to get through even though it's not even that long but I do think some parts felt a little rushed, Bristlefrost was only a spy for "Bramblestar" for a little while and changed her mind fairly quickly to change sides instead, not that it's a bad thing though, just pointing that out, to myself, lol)
All of the Clans are (for some reason having to be) aware of "Rootpaw's crush on Bristlefrost" (which once again makes her visibly uncomfortable) and basically shipping it while actually not shipping it (they think "it's cute" as long as nothing happens between them, mentioning this again for my later opinion on this ship)
The conversation between "Bramblestar" and Squirrelflight (him insulting her while also physically hurting here off-screen before he then dragged her out of the leader's den hauling her off of the highledge and exiling her is just very upsetting to read about, thankfully she already knew it wasn't really Bramblestar at this point, one can say a lot about him but he never willfully harmed her physically "at least", this happens on pages 280 through 287 btw)
"Your sister was a liar, and she made a liar out of you!" ―Ashfur to Squirrelflight about Leafpool in The Silent Thaw, page 282
Bumblestripe vs. Berrynose for deputy (hilarious)
Squirrelflight asking for sanctuary in ShadowClan and Tigerstar somehow forgetting that he fought in the Great Battle. Squirrelflight then telling him not much later on that "he must have been to young to remember the Great Battle" is unintentionally hysterical (I know it was just a continuity error but still could not stop snickering)
"He's got bees in his brain! You're Firestar's daughter. You've been loyal to ThunderClan your whole life. When I was young, I heard many tales of your courage during the Great Battle. What is Bramblestar thinking?" ―Tigerstar flabbergasted when he learns of Squirrelflight's exile in The Silent Thaw, page 301
Rootpaw making Bramblestar's ghost appear in the ShadowClan camp and Squirrelflight being able to see him briefly (I never liked and never will like BrambleSquirrel as a pairing but do feel bad for both of them as a couple in this context, if that makes sense)
The more Berrynose tried to please Bramblestar, the more Bramblestar seemed to despise him. Sounds perfectly in character for Ashfur
Bristlefrost still thinks of Rootpaw as only a friend while he still has his crush on her (page 321). To clarify, I have nothing against him having a crush or the fond look she is mentioned to also throw him there (because to me that look did't mean she'd already just changed her mind, since that happens in the next one, and also "a fond look" doesn't have to mean romantic interest since there is such a thing as friendship too, after all) Being kind to someone doesn't instantly have to mean romantic attraction/interest
Shadowsight getting attacked by Ashfur (yet another great cliffhanger)
Main Characters:RootpawDon't get me wrong, I do like Rootpaw, truly. But just really not as much as his fellow two protagonists, so far. Which is surprising, because I remember a few polls in regards to the TBC protagoinsts on WG as well as for him as a character specifically back in 2021, where I was very in favour about him. BristlefrostStill my favorite in terms of likeability and characterization. Similarly to Shadowsight, she gets used by Ashfur to do his bidding but manages to free herself much sooner, thankfully. I like how she wants to follow the rules but also never wants her Clanmates to get hurt in the name of doing so and looks out for them. ShadowsightAlso still continues to be the most interesting character for me story-wise and such. Him getting manipulated by Ashfur into doing his bidding unknowing of his true intentions at the time really makes me sympathise with him. He never meant to hurt anyone and is devasted by his own part in doing so. Storyline:Somehow this book took longer for me to get through even though it's not even that long and has a lot of interesting scenes in it. There is a lot going on and it has definitely made me more excited to continue reading. Although I must say that it kind of felt a little rushed at times but maybe that's just me and perhaps due to how the second book for the newest ASC arc ( Sky) felt a lot more like a book to set up the third one ( Shadow) and did not have as much story progression as this book had in terms of the plot moving along rather fast. Two of my favorite TBC:TST related videos to go alongside it (just for fun):WARNINGS FOR EYESTRAIN AND FLASHING
I will be updating this thread with another post once I've read Veil of Shadows and perhaps even Darkness Within we'll see, hopefully by tomorrow.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 13, 2023 21:06:10 GMT -5
I'm glad you saw the ominous atmosphere in the first book too. The whole thing just felt creepy and wrong. I think the same can be said for a lot of TBC. It's definitely the most atmospheric series imo. Also, love the fanwork being posted corresponding to each book, it's fun to see it in association with the reviews.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 16, 2023 13:03:15 GMT -5
I already read the third TBC book on Saturday (January 14th) but it was once again late when I got done that day and when trying to write about it the following day, it turned out there was an error with the website (err bear as described lol). So now, I'm just writing this down and then I'll be off to read the fourth TBC book next. #3 Veil of ShadowsNotable moments in chronological order:Seeing "the fight" or moreso one-sided and unfair attack of the impostor on Shadowsight from Spiresight's PoV in the prologue (this was an interesting choice for sure and quite shocking to see the precise/calculated brutality with which "Bramblestar" treated Shadowsight, letting his body fall down the ravine was still shocking to read even though I know he survives it, albeit just barely)
From Bristlefrost's perspective it really was then confirmed or at least implied that Berrynose did have something to do with the attack as well although the extent of his involvment is never outright stated and he was not seen during the attack on Shadowsight (neither at the end of TST nor at the start of VoS)
Lionblaze, Jayfeather and Twigbranch getting exiled and then Bristlefrost helping them all get to ShadowClan (I just really liked how she looked out for them and wanted them to be safe)
Crowfeather and Mothwing getting exiled (both Harestar and Mistystar are in the wrong for doing this although the latter has given me much more of a reason to dislike her due to her later on treatment of the rebels as well as her previous behaviour towards Mothwing in her novella)
Despite already knowing he's alive, those six chapters of not seeing Shadowsight really felt tense and me feel anxious for his wellbeing (he has been through lot already by this book)
"Bramblestar" really thought that Squirrelflight "still" loved him (Ashfur has proven himself as a manipulative and quite terrifying villain in this arc which is definitely an upgrade for him from his portrayal prior to that in past books, that being said he's also a completely deranged/delusional character at this point which does suit him but alo makes him all the more scary)
Finding Shadowsight (it's great that Spiresight helped Rootpaw to finally do so and that Dewspring helped as well)
Shadowsight teleporting (kinda) to ThunderClan's camp in spirit form and his ensuing encounter with the impostor (I had chills when Ashfur just adressed him like that) "Ungrateful cats! They need discipline. They need to be taught not to steal, not to question their leader, not to trespass...wouldn't you agree, Shadowsight? That's right...I can see you. I knew you were trespassing in our territory the minute you appeared in the camp." VoS, page 165
Alderheart choosing to go with Twigbranch and Finleap into exile Alderheart: "In all the times I have shared dreams with StarClan, our warrior ancestors have never asked any cat to serve a leader without question. Sometimes it's right to question! How much more devastation would Darktail have caused if none of his followers had questioned him?" Ashfur: "The code says you will obey your leader! But since you've made it clear you can't do that, you can leave too! ThunderClan has no use for a faithless medicine cat!" Alderheart: "What about a faithless leader?" Ashfur: "Get out!" —Alderheart standing up to Ashfur in Veil of Shadows, page 188
The not agreed upon (by most other rebels) rebel attack on "Bramblestar" and the death of Stemleaf affecting Bristlefrost for five minutes (I know there was criticism in the past regarding how fast she seemed to get over his death since it does feel as if the cats only react to deaths in this arc and then just move on much too quick, kinda "Oh no! So anyways..")
The impostor killing three cats while himself only getting away with a few scratches and missing clumps of fur (I remember that Ashfur was indeed shown to be a fairly good fighter when he was alive and the fact that he hsd control over Bramblestar's at least slightly more muscular and bigger body certainly helped to enhance his abilities)
Bramblestar exiling Berrynose for not getting help fast enough and making Bristlefrost deputy instead (she tried her best and probably would have become a good deputy/leader later on but was definitely too young and also not comfortable to have this position understandably so)
Leafstar still being reluctant to directly go against the impostor despite also believing those who warn her of his danger (very understandable considering how SkyClan got treated by the other Clans in the past and how Tigerstar especially was one of the vocal ones trying to persuade her to join his side much in contrast to how he treated her and them at the end of the previous arc)
Mistystar denouncing Dappletuft at the gathering and treating her like a rogue in death (not sitting vigil for her and so on was just cruel)
Shadowsight eating deathberry flesh so he could find out what happened to Bramblestar's ghost as a spirit (him going through the Moonpool portal to the Dark Forest, finding the StarClan barrier blocked off and rescuing the real Bramblestar from his tree prison all felt quite intense due to me expecting that something might go wrong at any moment, which it of course didn't...yet)
Rootspring's love confession and Bristlefrost saying she liked him back (it really did feel out of nowhere on her part and also doesn't help that it's from his perspective and not hers, just because she "looked at him fondly" once or thought his crush on her was reassuring that "at least some cat liked her in that way" during the previous book, doesn't mean that serves as the ultimate evidence that she had secretely always returned his feelings or something smh)
Leafstar tricking the impostor into thinking she was on his side really was a smart move imo (said it before and will say it again, she truly is the best current modern leader)
"Then we'll attack at dawn." - The Impostor (this had no business being funny to me since it's moreso foreboding if anything so I'll just blame the meme factor lol)
The battle between all five Clans *takes deep breath* RIP to Berrynose, Harestar (once), Rosepetal, Sandynose (me now waiting for HawkPlum to ever actually happen), Strikestone, Frondwhisker, Smokehaze and Softpelt (could have been a few more casualties imo, especially from ThunderClan and older warriors in general)
Mistystar exiling Icewing and Harelight for fighting against the impostor's side in the battle after it was won (this was just unfair and I'm glad Mothwing did refuse to return to RiverClan when she got the offer)
Squirrelflight realizing who the impostor is (that cliffhanger was moreso annoying than thrilling, even if one already knows it's Ashfur)
Main Characters:Rootspring
I do like him but am kind of surprised that it's not nearly as much as the other two protagonists. Surprised because I'm still remembering my votes on a few of the polls on here to have been in his favour in the past before actually reading the arc he's heavily featured in for myself. His "ghost powers" are cool as heck and I've enjoyed seeing him gain confidence in himself and all that but there's just something that keeps me from calling him a favorite, for some reason. Perhaps this will change in the three remaining books though, we'll see. BristlefrostShe's just really likeable to me. Her described emotions and reactions feel genuine and real. She's friendly without being too friendly (if that makes sense) and knows how to stand up for herself. Too bad some of her qualities will be getting replaced with her thoughts primarily revolving around Rootspring in the next book as far as I am aware in terms of criticism towards her character development there. ShadowsightHe continues to be the best out of these three protagonists for me and I don't think that'll change. His storyline, his visions, how other cats treat him and what he has been through and will continue to go through all because of Ashfur is just fascinating to read about and makes me sympathise with him as well. Storyline:This book once again had a lot of things happening in it but took me not as long to get through as TST. There was a lot of tension and memorable dialogue (lots of good character quotes to be found on the wiki too). From Bristlefrost's spy perspective to Rootspring first trying to find out what happened to Shadowsight and then later on Bramblestar's ghosts (as well as him being a medicine cat apprentice for five minutes for some reason) as well as Shadowsight's ghost "shenanigans", all three PoVs were overall fun to read from. For some reason, there aren't really (m)any MAPs/AMVs/PMVs and such which focus on VoS, no idea why. There are mostly just analysing videos and humorous skits. Or if it does get included, it's in relation to specific scenes (such as "Bramblestar" showing up all bloody after attacking Shadowsight or Ashfur's spirit talking to Shadowsight's ghost form but not even the battle between the Clans or anything) and then go beyond the book and move on to Darkness Within. Which made it hard to find anything that doesn't go go fully beyond the third TBC book but I still wanted to put at least one video here because it's just fun to have something associated with each book. This Squirrelflight MAP does reveal who the impostor is but since a lot of fans suspected/knew it was Ashfur already anyways, it fits: I will update this thread again soon (hopefully tomorrow when I'm done reading DW).
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 16, 2023 18:19:47 GMT -5
My favorite bit in this one was Ashfur getting high off of poppy seeds. It's such a unique thing to do and helps set him apart as someone who's totally off the edge emotionally. Also yes, Ashfur just turning around and pulling an "I SEE YOU" on Shadowsight is quite the moment.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jan 17, 2023 0:07:57 GMT -5
My favorite bit in this one was Ashfur getting high off of poppy seeds. It's such a unique thing to do and helps set him apart as someone who's totally off the edge emotionally. Also yes, Ashfur just turning around and pulling an "I SEE YOU" on Shadowsight is quite the moment. Now I'm seeing Ashfur pulling a "SUFFER ME NOW!" when putting all his ghosts under his mass mind control.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 17, 2023 1:40:17 GMT -5
My favorite bit in this one was Ashfur getting high off of poppy seeds. It's such a unique thing to do and helps set him apart as someone who's totally off the edge emotionally. Also yes, Ashfur just turning around and pulling an "I SEE YOU" on Shadowsight is quite the moment. Now I'm seeing Ashfur pulling a "SUFFER ME NOW!" when putting all his ghosts under his mass mind control. That's exactly how I imagine Ashfur kind of looking when he begins to emerge from Bramblestar's body! Also yes, many Celebrimbor quotes fit him perfectly, wraith that he is and all.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 18, 2023 17:48:09 GMT -5
This is the book which came out shortly after the "Bramblestar is Worse" video essay by Moonkitti got posted on Youtube which certanly had quite an impact on the overall fandom, not only on there but also on here and in other parts of it as well. I'm mentioning it because it did have a certain amount of relevancy as to how it affected/influenced a lot of fans in how they then perceived the rest of TBC, Bramblestar's fate in particular since his former reputation of a mostly respected character in the fandom at large was effectively gone by that point. Most people back then (and today) wanted for him not to return to his body and instead die (and go to the Dark Forest). I remember there even being a poll on the official Warrior Cats website (although I'm unable to find it now) about wether or not Bramblestar should find a way back to his body (or something reated to that/in regards to this topic of discussion both in-universe and with readers of the arc/series at the time). This was either around the time DW released or VoS. Although it might have also just been somehwhere in between when those two books originally came out. Honestly can't properly remember, to be honest, since it was back in 2020. Just two interesting things in relation to this book to point out. #4 Darkness WithinNotable moments in chronological order:Bramblestar's lie from OotS to protect Hollyleaf in regards to Ashfur's death getting mentioned to still be believed by the Clans as the actual truth to what happened (it should have been utilized at least a little more imo but instead only gets mentioned here, I know that Ashfur does mention Hollyleaf herself in the ALitM prologue but not the lie specifically as far as I can remember, it could have been used as yet another reason for Ashfur to be angry at Bramblestar tbh)
ThunderClan ceasing to exist for the entire book (they got downgraded to Thunderclan instead lol)
Lmao at the writing team for forgetting that Tigerstar fought in the OotS Great Battle but remembering that he was staying in PoT ThunderClan briefly as an apprentice and "always knew there was something dark about Ashfur" sure buddy (this can be found on the bottom of page 22 to the top of page 23 in DW btw)
The plan to get Ashfur to reveal his identity openly to the Clans (I remember really liking that it did not get fully stated in the excerpt as to how this plan was going to go beforehand via Squirrelflight explaining it on-screen and that the reader got to literally read it as it was happeing instead of any exposition before or after)
Ashfur spilling the beans (he literally admitted almost every crime he committed as the impostor in detail to Squirrelflight just because she told him that she "loved him" such as him at least implying what he did to StarClan, using Shadowsight to get rid of Bramblestar as well as admitting his murder attempt on Shadowsight and pitting the Clans against each other via the codebreakers and no StarClan Wifi connection)
Berrynose's limited involvment and knowledge in the murder attempt on Shadowsight (just wanted to quickly mention that since I've also asked about in the VoS section of my thread, but yeah apparently I forgot this got stated in the excerpt, he "just" lured Puddleshine away but did not know what exactly Ashfur had planned to do to Shadowsight besides "wanting to scare him")
Thornclaw calling out the nepotism in ThunderClan's current leadership (sorry, I meant Thunderclan, of course but yeah, he's right but also needs to chill a bit at the same time)
Flipclaw challenging the old ways and traditions of Clan life such as StarClan and the warrior code (it's just interesting that he was the cat to adress it in this arc)
Some cats going on a wander (I know Thornclaw comes back sooner than the others, Flipclaw comes back after him and then Graystripe after some more time passed while Flywhisker and Snaptooth become kittypets, it would be neat to see this concept again in ASC maybe)
The "Mothwing vs. Shadowsight" situation (I remember that this was a tooic of discussion after DW came out, here on the forums but also other fandom parts. I'm personally seeing both sides here, Shadowsight feels treated unfairly by a lot of cats and I do think he did not deserve it even though it's understandable to an extent if one looks at it from an outsider perspective and not his or even just that of a Clan cat outside of his circle of friends and family. Meanwhile, Mothwing found herself to be a member of a new Clan in a different enviroment than what she's used to and had to adapt, her temporary rudeness towards Shadowsight has its reasoning and she never acted outright hostile towards him unlike other cats, just annoyed. She's also right about him receiving his full medicine cat name "because of saving Bramblestar" when he did not actually do so. Even though it was never his intention to ever harm the ThunderClan leader and he was used or "groomed" as Mothwing put it on page 86 by Ashfur. She was also not the only cat to voice her doubts about his abilities as a medicine cat not being fully redy for the job yet as Puddleshine also talked about this and agreed with her behind Shadowsight's back and I don't see him criticized as much as her in this situation, for some reason, the exchange in regards to demoting Shadowsight are on page 83-88 btw, sorry for the wall of text lol)
Shadowsight treating Ashfur's wounds and talking to him unsupervised (this was just a bad idea from the start on the characters part imo but did make for some good dialogue between Ashfur and Shadowsight as well as move the plot along)
Bristlefrost's feelings for Rootspring so far (her behaviour around him has gone from being openly embarrassed by his feelings in TST to reciprocating them, even if they for now agreed to just be friends, it just feels off)
Leaf being able to tell that Spotfur was expecting kits before she herselef or a healer did (he really just hit her with that)
The confrontation between Ashfur and Lionblaze (their relationship dynamic as a former mentor and his apprentice who were never as close as is usually the case with that is just so interesting, yes I'm using that word a lot because its interesting lol gets the point across best)
Squirrelflight being the only cat who truly wants to keep Bramblestar's body alive and all three protagonists helping her in some way or other (just a tense situation overall)
The ghost summoning ceremony with The Sisters (lowkey nightmare inducing, I'm suprised there's not much fan content in terms of videos though)
Ashfur being able to leave Bramblestar's body at will and control other spirits (dude got some serious powers, good for him but not really lol)
Ashfur being interrogated by Tigerstar and Hawkwing and then getting beaten up by them both (just a pretty good scene worth mentioning imo)
Sunrise helping Rootspring with his "listen to the earth" powers and having helped in trying to summon Bramblestar's ghost despite her still holding resentment for how he treated her when she was injured back in SqH (understandably so, still thought it was generous of her to even do so since she didn't have to)
The BristleRoot plotline taking on more shape (in the previous three books there was only ever a few mentions besides Rootspring's crush on her getting adressed over and over again and while this book does also feature them doing something else besides constantly yearn and fawn for/over each other, Rootspring overall did have more to do than Bristlefrost had and it just did feel as if she was indeed merely serving as a camera into what went on in ThunderClan and with Squirrelflight, her previous characterization still did shine through a few times but she overall just either consisted of her reacting to things or being worried about other characters, mostly Rootspring, Squirrelflight and Spotfur)
Ashfur being referred to as "the dark warrior" by the narrative for the entire book (pretty cool title tbh)
Ashfur revealing that he's holding a lot of the other spirits essentially hostage (yet another lowkey scary scene)
Shadowsight helping Ashfur to escape (on one paw he was manipulated but on the other paw it really did turn out to be helpful for the real Bramblestar to have his actual body to return to after all)
Ashfur dragging Squirrelflight into the Moonpool with him (yet another great cliffhanger for sure)
Main Characters:
Bristlefrost
She definitely had some form of decline in terms of her characterization in this book in terms of either mostly reacting to the plot without much input on her part anymore (no thoughts head empty) or fawning over/yearning for Rootspring. I still like her but just not her romance. Shadowsight
He continues on as my favorite of the three protagonists and I already know this just will not change. Rootspring
He has his epic ghost seeing/summoming powers (as well as unlocking the ability to "listen to the earth" in this book) and I do like how he went from insecure apprentice to confident warrior. But his relationship with Bristlefrost just seems so unnecessary to me. I like him. Just still not as much as his fellow two protagonists though. Storyline:Just saw in my phone notes app that I apparently went on a rant there about BristleRoot while reading the book last night lmao. There's no way in hell I'm typing that all out lol and will instead probably just copy and paste it from there via mobile into a seperate thread on WG about my thoughts on this pairing lol. BristleRoot doesn't have a lot of the other canon pairing problems with lowkey (or highkey, not naming names) toxic undertones (or overtones) in terms of their dynamic but I'm still mad at these two for "falling in love". Although this really isn't the thread for that. So yeah, Shadowsight's chapters were the best in this book because of his conversations with Ashfur and growing distrust of him from his Clanmates and the other Clans. Ashfur is a compelling villain for sure and I'll be glad to read on tomorrow despite already knowing how it'll all end. Here's a more dramatic PMV by Dawnmist which does include the ghost summoning scene from DW as well as just a quick meme because it's fitting:
I'll be glad to read on tomorrow despite already knowing how it'll all go/end in the two remaining books.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 18, 2023 19:31:15 GMT -5
I really enjoy seeing your opinions! Thank you, I'm glad to hear or rather read that!
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 18, 2023 19:51:59 GMT -5
BristleRoot isn't well built up but I just enjoy how it's written when it does pop up. It has a much bigger air of believability and emotional pathos to me than some of the others, so I forgive it its weak beginnings based on that. I personally disagree that Bristlefrost got reduced in this book, as I thought her scenes with Spotfur and desperately trying to cheer her up are some of the better character moments for her, honestly.
Lionblaze is a stand out character in this imo, and Ashfur with ghost powers desperately needs more fanworks. The interrogation scene was peak tension stuff.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 19, 2023 10:37:59 GMT -5
BristleRoot isn't well built up but I just enjoy how it's written when it does pop up. It has a much bigger air of believability and emotional pathos to me than some of the others, so I forgive it its weak beginnings based on that. I personally disagree that Bristlefrost got reduced in this book, as I thought her scenes with Spotfur and desperately trying to cheer her up are some of the better character moments for her, honestly. Lionblaze is a stand out character in this imo, and Ashfur with ghost powers desperately needs more fanworks. The interrogation scene was peak tension stuff. Yeah, I did mention Spotfur in terms of her being one of the characters Bristlefrost's main focus is on in DW and also liked those character moments between them. As stated, BristleRoot is by no means a problematic ship or anything but I personally just don't find Bristlefrost's feelings believable and do think she got reduced in some way in this book as there just seem to be more scenes of her reacting to things than outright being involved in the plot like a protagonist usually tends to be especially compared to her fellow protagonists, Shadowsight and Rootspring. That's just how I perceived it while reading DW though and you are free to see things differently/disagree, of course. Lionblaze indeed made himself very interesting in this book (and the next one, if I'm remembering the excerpt for TPoNS correctly). His characterization is believable due to his personal connections to "the other three protagonists of this arc" as I like to refer to Bramblestar, Squirrelflight and Ashfur during TBC. He thinks to have lost the tom who raised him, still respects but disagrees with the she-cat who did as well and just outright hates the cat, his former mentor, who is responsible for Bramblestar's fate and Squirrelflight's plight in that arc (understandably so). Ashfur is definitely an intimidating villain in TBC and me finally reading this arc has catapulted him from my previous "Least Favorite Characters" list (where he was even in first place at one point) due to him finally being portrayed as the villain he was all along ever since the last book of TNP (when he helped Hawkfrost with the foxtrap plan) instead of him getting his actions excused by StarClan in-universe and some parts of the real life fandom.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jan 19, 2023 11:07:25 GMT -5
BristleRoot isn't well built up but I just enjoy how it's written when it does pop up. It has a much bigger air of believability and emotional pathos to me than some of the others, so I forgive it its weak beginnings based on that. I personally disagree that Bristlefrost got reduced in this book, as I thought her scenes with Spotfur and desperately trying to cheer her up are some of the better character moments for her, honestly. Lionblaze is a stand out character in this imo, and Ashfur with ghost powers desperately needs more fanworks. The interrogation scene was peak tension stuff. Lionblaze indeed made himself very interesting in this book (and the next one, if I'm remembering the excerpt for TPoNS correctly). His characterization is believable due to his personal connections to "the other three protagonists of this arc" as I like to refer to Bramblestar, Squirrelflight and Ashfur during TBC. He thinks to have lost the tom who raised him, still respects but disagrees with the she-cat who did as well and just outright hates the cat, his former mentor, who is responsible for Bramblestar's fate and Squirrelflight's plight in that arc (understandably so). Agreed. While he's being a jerk and overly aggressive at times, I find his reaction to be completely understandable. He just lost the cats who raised him to the cat who tried to murder him and took over the Clan. Then said cat torments his family and exiles him twice for petty reasons. That said, I do think it was a missed oppurtunity to see what Jayfeather thinks of the whole situation. I know he wasn't pleased when he found out it was Ashfur and supported Squirrelflight with trying to spare Bramblestar's body, but he didn't get as much focus as Lionblaze did. Same with Alderheart and Sparkpelt since Ashfur targeted them too.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 19, 2023 11:34:06 GMT -5
Lionblaze indeed made himself very interesting in this book (and the next one, if I'm remembering the excerpt for TPoNS correctly). His characterization is believable due to his personal connections to "the other three protagonists of this arc" as I like to refer to Bramblestar, Squirrelflight and Ashfur during TBC. He thinks to have lost the tom who raised him, still respects but disagrees with the she-cat who did as well and just outright hates the cat, his former mentor, who is responsible for Bramblestar's fate and Squirrelflight's plight in that arc (understandably so). Agreed. While he's being a jerk and overly aggressive at times, I find his reaction to be completely understandable. He just lost the cats who raised him to the cat who tried to murder him and took over the Clan. Then said cat torments his family and exiles him twice for petty reasons. That said, I do think it was a missed oppurtunity to see what Jayfeather thinks of the whole situation. I know he wasn't pleased when he found out it was Ashfur and supported Squirrelflight with trying to spare Bramblestar's body, but he didn't get as much focus as Lionblaze did. Same with Alderheart and Sparkpelt since Ashfur targeted them too. Yup, Lionblaze's hatred of Ashfur is completely justified. Yeah true, in regards to there being less focus on Jayfeather and the BrambleSquirrel bio kits in TBC. Although I must say that all three of them have gotten quite a bit of characterization before unlike Lionblaze who has either been shoved into the background or was considered by the overall fandom to have the most boring PoV in OotS (some even say PoT as well) as compared to his littermates. I personally like him (back then and now) and always will but it's just very evident that Lionblaze needed this type of further character development/spotlight much more than any of the other BrambleSquirrel kits (be they adopted or their biological ones).
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 22, 2023 15:58:42 GMT -5
Having most of this book and the finale afterwards take place in the mostly desolate and slowly "dissloving" (not really the right word for the fog and water situation but oh well) Dark Forest as the main setting was a great idea. As it truly does make one feel something akin to dread in anticipation of what might lurk (or just happen) on the next page. #5 The Place of No StarsNotable moments in chronological order:
"You tend to think with your claws and then regret it later." Jayfeather to Lionblaze on page 22 (his quote just sums up the basis of Lionblaze as a character pretty well imo)
Tigerstar and Dovewing wanting Shadowsight to either lie or escape before he is questioned by the other Clan leaders about what happened with Ashfur (I completely understand that they were worried and wanted to protect their son but this was just not the way to do it and I'm glad Shadowsight insists on wanting to explain himself and the situation even if it puts him in danger)
Shadowsight's failed escape attempt with the help of his kin (once again I understand, but this really wouldn't have solved anything and even could have made things worse)
Tigerstar vs. Lionblaze trying to beat each other up despite being held back (a mix of funny and sad to me, since I fondly remember these two getting along well in PoT, back when I still liked Tigerstar lol)
Willowshine's death (the way in which she died, with no sound coming from her and looking "too peaceful" until her spirit emerged from her body and did not seem to understand she had died, really was quite shocking)
The extent of Lionblaze's anger towards Shadowsight (I understand why Lionblaze is angry at Shadowsight but wanting to kill him is literally overkill, no pun intended, most if not all of his anger should be directed at Ashfur, in which he would be completely justified, page 85 at the very bottom)
Graystripe being in charge temporarily (I don't mind it at all, it's a nice farewell fore his character to get some more focus on in terms of authority before his fate in the finale next book)
Mothwing accompanying Shadowsight to the Moonpool so he can try going to the Dark Forest (it's just neat that she's the one to do so considering their tense relationship dynamic in the previous book)
Rootspring getting dragged through the Moonpool portal (cue "possessed" but moreso mind controlled Willowshine)
Shadowsight meeting and talking with Snowtuft (I just really like their conversation and am glad to see a previously minor DF cat get some spotlight)
Rootspring and "Willowshine" searching the Dark Forest in search of Ashfur (the concept of a protagonist looking for a villain who is technically right there with them is just kinda terrifyingly funny in a way)
Ashfur still being delusional during his conversation with Squirrelflight (this man really has no clue what "giving up" even means, page 177-180)
Ashfur forcing Bramblestar's ghost to attack Squirrelflight and thus showing her his power over other spirits (just a tense moment and Shadowsight coming through to break Ashfur's concentration was a good idea on his part)
Ashfur screeching after Bramblestar to "Come back! Come back now! You will obey me!" after he escaped (just thought it was hilarious for some reason)
Bristlefrost's brief visit to the DF (I'm just gad she got something else to do in this book besides waiting and worrying about Rootspring at the Moonpool so far)
Rootspring, Squirrelflight and "Willowshine" being followed around calmly by a mind controlled Stemleaf (lowkey gave me goosebumps fr)
Four mind controlled spirit cats imitating the voice of Bramblestar (this book has no chill and really wants me to be scared, page 209)
The dark lake water (it's interesting that both Shadowsight and Rootspring fell in but managed to get out by basically going "happy thoughts/positive vibes only")
Willowshine's spirit being revealed to be under Ashfur's control ever since she dragged Rootspring through the Moonpool portal (I already knew/remembered that from the spoiler thread and a recently watched PMV but it's still a good reveal, page 288)
Rootspring, Snowtuft and Bramblestar teaming up to rescue Squirrelflight and get Bramble back into his body (I just really like how Snowtuft is not suddenly shown to "have been a good cat all along" or some bs but instead still has that morally grey vibe to him while having chosen to help the good side this time around)
Darkstripe falling into the black lake (still would very much like to know how exactly he got out to then appear in the next book, he might have even been the wet cat in this book who prevented Rootspring from escaping alongside BrambleSquirrrel, because I'm pretty sure it wasn't due to him thinking "happy thoughts about Tigerstar" or whatever *violently shakes his mini figurine* What is your secret?!)
Bramblestar getting back into his own body and him and Squirrelflight escaping the Dark Forest (good for them, and while I still would have liked to see them appear/fight in the finale, it's perfectly understandable that they have been through a lot already in this arc, literally went through hell, and did not need/want to go back there)
Bristlefrost and Shadowsight going to the Dark Forest to rescue Rootspring and seeing him having to fight Snowtuft (I remember this cliffhanger from the spoiler thread and still like how tense it seems)
Main Characters:
Bristlefrost
She did not have much to do besides waiting around the Moonpool in this book and being worried about Rootspring. But there were still a few moments of her character getting something to say and do though. Such as her being a part of Lionblaze's patrol to interrogate Shadowsight, fetching Kestrelflight to meet up at the Moonpool and talking to Graystripe. However, compared to her two fellow protagonists, she had much less going on. Shadowsight
He is still my favorite. From him being briefly imprisoned for aiding Ashfur in his escape, going to the Moonpool (with Mothwing) in order to make things right and not leaving until he does so, to meeting Snowtuft and attacking Ashfur to help Bramblestar and Squirrelflight while getting hurt in the process to then go to the DF again while still injured, he is just a really interesting character to follow around and observe his thoughts and feelings. Rootspring
Him going around the Dark Forest with a mind-controlled Willowshine and experiencing the place without much knowledge of it or its inhabitants while then finally getting to help the first ever spirit cat he saw back when he was an apprentice, was certainly a neat storyline journey for him to have in this book. I also laughed at how to of his chapters ended with him basically thinking "girl help I have no idea what to do." Storyline:This was a pretty good book imo (feel free to disagree). The only thing I was disappointed by (despite knowing it) had to do with Bristlefrost being kept moreso on the sidelines (although thankfully not entirely) here. She mostly thought about Rootspring and had conversations about him or theorized about their future. He also thought about her but not nearly as much as far as I could tell/read. Kinda off-topic but not really, I really wish they had given some development/focus to the fact that Mothwing is the (half)sister to both Bramblstar and Tawnypelt, in this book or the arc in general. But I'm guessing that it's just simply too late for that at this point. Would have fitted into the storyline as a subplot or a few scenes/lines though, since Mothwing does play a bigger part in TBC. But yeah, I'll be very looking forward to reading the finale (ALitM) tomorrow or sometime this week and share my thoughts on that here as well. Here are a few (four) PMVs in regards to TPoNS (there's certainly a bit more content in regards to this book and the final one after it as well): This one was made and came out before the actual fifth book release and was going off of the excerpt only, focusing on Shadowsight and Lionblaze
This one I thought was just "fun" due to the song and ensuing imagery, about Squirrelflight and Ashfur
This one is an animatic about the events relating to the Dark Forest and Ashfur
And finally, this one is focused on Snowtuft (still mad he just dies off-screen next book btw)
Pretty sure I already share most of these on here/made threads about them back when they came out. But yeah, I'll be very looking forward to reading the finale (ALitM) tomorrow or sometime this week and share my thoughts on that here as well.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 22, 2023 18:34:03 GMT -5
The possessed cat jumpscares were great in this one.
Also yes, I am absolutely of the belief that Darkstripe survived the black water by virtue of thinking of Tigerstar.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 26, 2023 16:47:54 GMT -5
Just got done reading this book and have a lot of thoughts. #6 A Light in the MistNotable moments in chronological order:The prologue from Ashfur's PoV (the one for Lost Stars was also from his perspective but unnamed and certainly less scary albeit it was certainly foreboding, this one made me outright shiver since his thoughts are just so dark here and his need for vengeance against everyone at this point is truly terrifying to read about from his own viewpoint) Darkstripe being confirmed as the "wet cat" stopping Rootspring from escaping in the previous book (makes sense that it really was him, just mentioning it since I've already done so in my TPoNS post as well) Shadowsight provoking Ashfur in order to break his concentration on and control over the other spirit cats ("the power of love compels you" vibe aside, I just love how Shadowsight still fights in his own way without any or much battle experience/prowess, he tried to fend Ashfur off during his murder attempt, jumped on him multiple times in the previous book to save Squirrelflight and Bramblestar and is now goading him despite knowing very well that he doesn't stand much of a chance against him) Bristlefrost vs. Mapleshade (just mentioning it because I'm just glad that Bristlefrost finally got to do something in the DF and because I know she'll shine even more in this finale from here on out) Snowtuft's off-screen death (the fact that Darkstripe gets a memorable on-screen demise thanks to Firestar later on and even Redwillow's accidental drowning is witnessed while Snowtuft only gets this "dying wail" bit, even though I'm not sure how he could have done so if his neck got broken by Ashfur but oh well, Snowtuft just deserved better imo and yes I know he was in the DF for a reason but still, page 42 is where Willowshine confirms how he died btw) Hope being the way to loosen the vines blocking off StarClan (I know this is cliche in a way but it's not the first or last children book series to use hope or friendship or love in order to defeat/fight evil and I'm still fond of the message/concept lol) Leafpool explaining what Ashfur did while in StarClan (the balance between light and dark being in danger as well as one not being able to exist without the other is yet another common theme used in a lot of fantasy media and it does fit here quite well considering the spiritual aspect of the story, page 53) Rootspring hearing Firestar's voice in his head already sometime before his fight with Darkstripe (cannot wait to get to the part where Darkstripe gets yeeted, btw somebody should've thrown that dude a backbone years ago because he really needed it) The physics of the Moonpool path/portal leading to the Dark Forest (again, not going to question that, since this is a fantasy series after all, but still worth mentioning that the Moonpool is located on top of a large tree surrounded/supported by nothing but air, just saying, would love to see some fanart of this tbh, page 75) Tigerstar proposing to let every spirit, be they good or bad, as well as Rootspring and Bristlefrost, perish in the shrinking Dark Forest to get rid of Ashfur after Shadowsight came back (he would never have dared to suggest this if his son had still been there but as soon as he's back and explained what should actually be done, Tigerstar hits everyone with the "for the greater good", which were not his exact words but oh well, he thankfully stops after Shadowsight explained Leafpool's words about the balance of their worlds but still, chill bro, page 89) Maggottail, Redwillow and Sparrowfeather trying to possess instead of fight Bristlefrost (utterly hilarious, I stan this scene, 10/10 on page 98) Bristlefrost's speech to and her recruiting the three DF cats (I just love it, she understands that wanting to convince them to "just be good instead of evil lol" won't work and instead appeals to them wanting to safe their home/themselves, I'm just so glad Bristlefrost got to shine in this book before her ultimate fate, *suddenly hears someone cutting onions in the distance and flees* Squirrelflight volunteering to be on the team to enter the Dark Forest and end Ashfur but Graystripe stepping in and telling her neither she nor Bramblestar should or need to go (I do like and understand the reasoning behind BrambleSquirrel being "too valuable to ThunderClan to go there again and them also not owning anything to Ashfur, but still would have liked for them to do something here, considering just how important they are in this arc, they already were both on Shadowsight's side when it came to wanting to save/bring back Rootspring and Bristlefrost as well as wanting to save StarClan and the other trapped spirits being prevented from going to their true home, so that's at least something) Firestar possessing Rootspring (I was so excited to finally read this scene for myself despite knowing about it already from the spoiler thread and various dialogue snippets from the wiki and such, definitely one of my favorite scenes from this book) Rootspring/Firestar: "Are you happy being Ashfur's lackey?" Darkstripe: "I'm no cat's lackey." Rootspring/Firestar: "Really? First Tigerstar, now Ashfur. Following orders is what got you killed. Aren't you ever going to stand up for yourself?" Darkstripe: "What do you know about it?" Rootspring/Firestar: "Enough." Darkstripe: "How can a kit like you know about Tigerstar?" Rootspring/Firestar: "Ashfur is just as evil as Tigerstar was. And he cares even less about what happens for the cats who fight for him." Darkstripe: "You know nothing!" Rootspring/Firestar: "You once said, that every cat in the forest could turn to crow food for all you cared." Darkstripe: "I-I never said that to you!" — Firestar talking to Darkstripe through Rootspring's body in A Light in the Mist (book), page 148 Firestar thinking that Rootspring's body was "smaller and fluffier" than his own (I made a thread about this in January of last year wcrpforums.com/thread/86867/big-firestar-canon-alitm-spoilers and just thought this was a good callback to that, still think Firestar must be pretty big if he thinks that considering how big Rootspring's paternal kin is) Firestar killing Darkstripe and expressing regret later on (just mentioning it because I once again remember making a thread about the topic of a possible Darkstripe redemption after TPoNS came out wcrpforums.com/thread/82964/darkstripe-tbc, how foolish of me in retrospect but but it's nice to know that my favorite character also expressed this opinion of Darkstripe "seeing the error of his ways", right after he killed him on page 157 lol and yes, I'm focusing a lot on this scene because of me genuinely liking it and lso just love Firestar so there's that, also just noticed that I claimed to have read the book back then, no idea why because that was simply not true *travels back in time to berate my past self for lying*) RIP Redwillow (kinda still disappointed that he's completely gone just like Snowtuft and Bristlefrost in this book but not as much as with the other two though) Lightleap having "too much fear" to enter the Dark Forest (since this still affects her to this day, I'm now glad to have properly read it and understand her better although this incident is no excuse for her reckless behaviour endangering her and others of course, but it certainly serves as the explanation with it as the catalyst for her current self-destructive tendencies in wanting to prove to herself and others that she's indeed "brave enough" to throw herself head on into dangerous situations) Rootspring thinking that Darkstripe was one of the strongest DF warriors (on page 191, lmao just no) Needletail, Onestar, Silverstream, Feathertail, Redtail, Larksong and Firestar being the StarClan cats to help fight Ashfur (some of these make sense although I don't think Larksong was actually there at the battle after all since I'm not remembering him being even mentioned so perhaps he just greeted Bristlefrost and then went back but no idea, some of the others could have been replaced though imo, with cats tied more to the story in this arc, not including Hollyleaf still just seems like a missed/wasted opporunity to me) Firestar reuniting with Graystripe (it was just heartwarming to read since these two are just so precious with each other) Shadowsight's connection to Ashfur (lowley reminds me of Harry Potter and Voldemort but only in the sense/context of the hero having a mind link to the villain and because Shadowsight can feel Ashfur's anger) Hi Darktail! Bye Darktail! (pretty sure I wrote this exact comment somewhere on the 47 page long ALitM spoiler thread lol, he did deserve that final beatdown though and I'm glad Needletail and Violetshine got to do it) Graystripe telling Squirrelflight's message to Ashfur and getting fatally wounded by him (it does seem obvious in retrospect that Ashfur would lash out at the messenger of those final words to him by his longtime obsession) Bristlefrost's sacrifice (this broke me all over again despite it being the only scene I've previously read in full on the spoiler thread where I got the page screenshots shared, I cried while reading it and am crying while writing/thinking about it again now, the ending of chapter 18 really is one of the saddest and shocking chapter endings of this series imo, those last words/thoughts of hers got me good on page 267) The vine barrier between the Dark Forest and StarClan disappearing and the dark water vanishing as soon as Ashfur is gone (the fact that both Bristlefrost and him are just gone with it feels so surreal for some reason) Shadowsight thinking that he did end up getting Bristlefrost killed after all like Ashfur wanted him to (while one can say this is technically true, it's not really his fault so to speak if that even makes any sense, Bristlefrost wanted to save him from Ashfur and knew what would happen before she even started running over to him, she accepted the consequences and her ensuing fate and still went ahead with it, thus perfectly showcasing her brave and selfless nature) Leafpool telling Shadowsight that he never truly had a connection to StarClan (this part still doesn't really make sense to me, I would moreso get it if Ashfur's connction to him and the loss of it might have permanently damaged/severed his connection to them, but not that he never had it to begin with, because that would imply Ashfur was the one to tell Shadowsight to throw himself into the flood in AVoS as a kit "so the Clans would work together/be reunited" via the vision and that he also sent him the vision in his paternal grandmother's novella about the "tree destroying a cave" which Tawnypelt interprets to mean the Tribe of Rushing Water being in danger, if that was a all Ashfur, I'm just failing to understand how it exactly benefitted him back then since his real plan only got set into motion later on when Shadowsight was older) Silverstream an Feathertail being jealous/hurt over Graystripe and Crowfeather interacting with Millie and Leafpool (I know this has been discussed enough on the forums already so I'll just say here's to hoping that SilverGrayMillie has happened at this point and those three are happy together by now while I don't care much for FeatherCrow or LeafCrow, I'm just hoping they also all three get together after his death or he just chooses one and the other accepts it eventually) The "changing the code" discussion ("The code is like a living thing,” Leafpool chimed. “It changes and grows as it needs to." I fully agree with this quote by her tbh) Juniperclaw becoming the borer guardian between light and shadow (good for him honestly, because I do think he deserved at least something since he did feel regret/remorse over poisoning SkyClan's freshkill pile, while he's also still accepting that he'll not be a StarClan cat) Graystripe's death (I knew it was coming of course, and he did lead a long and fullfilled life while now being able to look forward to his spirit life with his family and friends, but I was still sad to see him go) Mothwing's explanation and apology to Shadowsight as to why she was so strict with him before in DW (her grief over no longer being a RiverClan cat at the time as well as her fear of a living cat listening to a long-dead cat turning out to be dangerous are both completely understandable to me on her part and I'm glad it was properly adressed/cleared up, page 320) The Lights in the Mist title for: Rootspring, Bristlefrost, Shadowsight, Graystripe, Mistystar, Violetshine and Crowfeather (I like that they all got homored in this way) Main Characters:
Rootspring
He has one of my favorite scenes in this book (or rather Firestar technically did but still). I also feel truly bad for him when it comes to grieving Bristlefrost (despite not liking the romantic aspect of their relationship). The secene of him trying to reach her spirit for the sake of himself as well as her parents was heart-wrenching. Shadowsight
Still my favorite of the TBC protagonist bunch. I feel terribly for him in terms of his guilt regarding Bristlefrost's death. Not sure if this could be called survivor's guilt on his part since Ashfur did try to kill him and it was only due to Bristlefrost intervening that he got out of there alive and subsequently feels guilty for this situation. Bristlefrost
Her entire role her was fantastic. It really was her time to shine and showcase her talent as a warrior and her personality both in terms of fighting but also negotiating as well as bravery and selflessness. She went out in one of the most memorable ways in this series. Storyline:Another final off-topic bit since I've already explained my thoughts on the book's plot on this post enough. So here goes, Brindleface and Fercloud not showing up is a crime smh. Same with Hollyleaf. She didn't even have to be the one to kill him (although it would have bee cool and kind of cemented them as each others eternal nemesis imo, which is fun). But they really could have at least let her show up and react to what Ashfur has done instead of only mentioning her twice in the entire arc (once in DW at the gathering at the start when Squirrelflight reveals Ashfur's identity and Bramblestar's lie about what happened (Hollyleaf killing Ashfur by accident) is still believed to be the truth and then again at the start of ALitM where Ashfur himself mentions her very briefly in one line in the prologue as his murderer. Her, his mother and his sister should have played roles in this arc imho Just replace Onestar, Redtail and Larksong with them and it would have worked out. Here are three videos relating back to what happens in this book (all three of them have to do with Bristlefrost's sacrifice since she deserves another tribute, so yeah, this one's for you Briss!:
I will probably to a "My Favorite... from this arc" post tomorrow as a final conclusion to this thread (favorite protagonist, book, scene from each book, cover and so on).
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 27, 2023 15:55:00 GMT -5
The imagery is so eldritch in this one, yeah. The upside down tree and moon pool , the black water just…appearing from nowhere like this creeping alien, the way the world itself was being worn away, it’s a lot of imagery I wish was visualized more often. Another great visual was Shadowsight seeing Ashfur’s face replace his own in the vision he had.
Speaking of their connection, I guess Ashfur just played the long game to make him look credible but yeah it’s a bit weird
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Post by auser on Jan 28, 2023 8:32:35 GMT -5
I really enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions about the books. Thanks for posting your reactions. A lot of people don’t like the supernatural aspect of this series, but I absolutely enjoyed it. I felt like this book could’ve been the perfect conclusion to the series overall due to all the callbacks. Funnily enough I hate and love the supernatural aspects of the series at the same time, they're a mix bag for me I hate StarClan's presence being less mysterious and them doing bullshit and ruining good characters, the Three powers weren't treated like they should've been treated but I loved the spooky and creepy vibes this arc gave us
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 28, 2023 11:14:28 GMT -5
I really enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions about the books. Thanks for posting your reactions. A lot of people don’t like the supernatural aspect of this series, but I absolutely enjoyed it. I felt like this book could’ve been the perfect conclusion to the series overall due to all the callbacks. Thank you for enjoying my rambles <3 I really do like/appreciate the supernatural aspects of this series although some instances were done better than others in the overall franchise. In PoT/OotS, it was very hyped/played up but ultimately underwhelming (the DF as well as the Three except for maybe Jayfeather got ultimately underused). But TBC did a fantastic job in terms of the foreboding atmosphere and horror elements of this arc, in my opinion.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 28, 2023 11:38:13 GMT -5
The imagery is so eldritch in this one, yeah. The upside down tree and moon pool , the black water just…appearing from nowhere like this creeping alien, the way the world itself was being worn away, it’s a lot of imagery I wish was visualized more often. Another great visual was Shadowsight seeing Ashfur’s face replace his own in the vision he had. Speaking of their connection, I guess Ashfur just played the long game to make him look credible but yeah it’s a bit weird Yeah agreed, TBC certainly should get more fanart/animation content in regards to the horror elements of it. Lowkey hoping for one of those FNAF Halloween MAPs, which came out in the last few years that specifically focus on the Dark Forest, to have one this year be soely about the DF during TBC, maybe let the protagonist there be Bristlefrost since she is the daughter of Ivypool, who was the protagonist of the previous two FNAF Halloween MAPs. I know there was one which came out a few months ago focusing on Ashfur as a FNAF character (with him glitching out of existence together with Bristlefrost). And while that MAP was a good start, I just want more because TBC really does deserve more attention due to its imagery and atmosphere. It just has so much potential. That could be it. Still just seems at least a little off in terms of continuity or Ashfur's motivations since those other two visions (telling Shadowkit to reunite the Clans in AVoS by throwing himself into the flood during The Raging Storm or the vision of a tree falling in a cave relating to the tribe) happened before he beiefly saw Squirrelflight in StarClan and truly set his plan into motion. True, he said in ALitM to have always planned something and to have never forgiven anyone after his death. But it still just doesn't explain what exactly he gained from sending visions to Shadowsight before his ultimate TBC plan was properly set up. Perhaps he really did do it to simply cover up the fact that Shadowsight never had a StarClan connection so the other StarClan cats and the Clans would see Shadowsight as a "real" medicine cat (Mothwing says hi). Still, it would have just made more sense if Ashfur's connection to Shadowsight was what destroyed his StarClan connection instead of him never having one to begin with, at least in my opinion.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Jan 28, 2023 12:21:40 GMT -5
You've mentioned you already knew the plot of TBC because of spoiler threads and wiki articles. Now that you've read the books for yourself, have any opinions changed? Do you like it more/less than you expected? Any thoughts that have changed on the characters/ships/plot/setting, etc.?
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 28, 2023 14:57:32 GMT -5
You've mentioned you already knew the plot of TBC because of spoiler threads and wiki articles. Now that you've read the books for yourself, have any opinions changed? Do you like it more/less than you expected? Any thoughts that have changed on the characters/ships/plot/setting, etc.? Thank you for asking me about this! I appreciate the "food for thought" so to speak <3 Regarding the arc overall, I'm pretty sure the premise already intrigued me enough back then since this was the arc which made me return to reading the series and finally joining the fandom online (I had previously only interacted with one other Warriors fan irl in middle school). I've also known that I would enjoy seeing Ashfur finally get treated as the villain he was all along ever since the last TNP book when he conspired with Hawkfrost to kill Firestar. It was just gratifying to see the actual narrative no longer support the "he loved too much" bs (thanks again for that Vicky/Yellowfang lol). Similarly to this, I've known for some time that BristleRoot is just not for me in terms of their romance. Not because of the forbidden/cross-Clan aspect and instead because it was just not well/believably written in the beginning stages on Bristlefrost's part and also rather reduced Bristlefrost's role significantly in at least two books later on (DW except for her focus on Spotfur and TPoNS where she only had two small things to do in the beginning and then spent the rest of it fretting over Rootspring while him and Shadowsight got to actually do stuff in the Dark Forest). So yeah, in terms of liking the arc more/less than expected, I knew what to expect and liked/disliked it accordingly. As for changing thoughts on the characters, Rootspring was someone I expected to love and whom I'd even given high ratings to/voted positive on polls for before reading the arc. After actually having read it? He's fine, I like him. But just really not as much as I initially had anticipated. Shadowsight is my favorite protagonist from that arc, followed by Bristlefrost. I would even go as far as saying that Shadowsight and Bristlefrost are in my Love to Like category while Rootspring is only in the Like to Neutral one. Which still shocks me but that's just how it is for me apparently. When it comes to ships, my opinion on BristleRoot is still the same as before. Most forbidden romances or even a lot of regular ones in this series are just not written/developed well. They make for entertaining drama most of the time like with CrowLeaf (or do it so much it gets annoying *stares down TigerDove*) but are more often than not badly set up in terms of their relationship foundations, which then tends to affect the further development to be less believable. By this, I mean the ones from the arcs before ASC although NightSun is shaping up to annoy me as well. But since cross-Clan love is now "legal" (feels weird to phrase it like that but here goes), it's not to be considered under that category anymore). Plot-wise, I pretty much enjoyed all of it, except for Turtlepaw and Kitepaw being half-hearted attempts at bullies for Rootpaw because "him and his dad are weird" (just felt unnecessary and a bit of a cheap take on Sandpaw and Dustpaw teasing Firepaw because of him being a kittypet outsider). Also think it's almost a crime (but not really of course) that Hollyleaf was not included except for two mentions at the beginning of DW and ALitM. Or that Brindleface and Ferncloud did not at least get mentioned by Ashfur (or better yet a scene of Cloudtail asking Ashfur what his mother and sister would think of his actions). Them being included in the final battle alongside Hollyleaf would have been a great opportunity which sadly ended up being a missed one instead and wasted potential for their characters to get spotlight. Been a fan of the setting since reading about it in the blurbs, spoiler threads and wiki articles. Especially the DF one.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 28, 2023 16:57:24 GMT -5
Here's my little conclusion post in terms of favs from this arc which I meant to post yesterday but oh well.
The Broken Code Favorites:
Favorite Protagonist/Main Character Shadowsight
Favorite Major Character Honestly a tie between Lionblaze, Mothwing, Leafstar and Tree for me
Favorite Supporting Character Frecklewish (SkC)
Honorable mentions go to Ashfur for being a great villain and Firestar for being the best StarClan cat in this arc and in general (also because I am very much biased in favor of the orange kitty).
Favorite Book A tie between Lost Stars and A Light in the Mist to me
Favorite Scene(s)/Event(s) from each book
Lost Stars - Shadowpaw getting struck by lightning - Bramblestar's death - Rootpaw seeing Bramblestar's ghost
The Silent Thaw - Shadowsight getting attacked by "Bramblestar"
Veil of Shadows - Shadowsight's spirit encounter with the impostor - Shadowsight eating deathberry flesh to find out what happened to the real Bramblestar
Darkness Within - Ashfur revealing his identity - Shadowsight's interactions with Ashfur the entire book - The confrontation between Ashfur and Lionblaze - The ghost summoning ceremony - Ashfur being interrogated and beaten up by Tigerstar and Hawkwing - Ashfur revealing that he's holding the other spirits hostage - Ashfur dragging Squirrelflight into the Moonpool
The Place of No Stars - Tigerstar and Lionblaze trying to beat each other up - Shadowsight's initial/first conversation with Snowtuft - Shadowsight managing to break Ashfur's mind control over Bramblestar - Rootspring and Snowtuft helping Bramblestar and Squirrelflight to escape the Dark Forest
A Light in the Mist - The prologue from Ashfur's deranged perspective - Maggottail, Redwillow and Sparrowfeather trying to possess instead of fight Bristlefrost via headbutts - Firestar possessing Rootspring to murder Darkstripe - Firestar reuniting with Graystripe - Bristlefrost's sacrifice
Favorite Book Cover A tie between Lost Stars and The Place of No Stars
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