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Post by kitters on Sept 23, 2022 0:15:21 GMT -5
Not really on topic I guess but is anyone else kind of annoyed with the title since "Shattered Sky" already exists? yeah they should have named it clan
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Post by Jaysnow on Sept 23, 2022 0:16:52 GMT -5
Not really on topic I guess but is anyone else kind of annoyed with the title since "Shattered Sky" already exists? yeah they should have named it clan Ha ha.
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Post by Jaysnow on Sept 23, 2022 0:55:26 GMT -5
They are talking about greencough here but I honestly feel like it’s all bark no bite. I doubt the authors have the guts to do a greencough epidemic again, but Brighrheart dying wouldn’t some as a shock to me.
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Post by rabbit on Sept 23, 2022 13:02:13 GMT -5
The amount of Nightheart hate here surprises me. Lol For me, his chapter hurt to read for opposite reasons. I couldn’t stand how cold everybody was to him. I really liked these three chapters because it shows that all three main characters have something in common. They all are experiencing isolation among their clans. Nightheart being avoided and criticized constantly for just trying to be his self, because his clan mates believe that he is not meeting their expectations. Frostpaw being in an unusual position of medicine cat, having pressure put on her to solve the clan’s major problems with little help from others, and with both of her parents recently dead. Sunbeam getting isolated by having relationship drama ruin her friendships she once had and how her clan mates treat her.
I am expecting to see tension with Sunbeam and Berryheart, like Nightheart and Sparkpelt.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
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BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Sept 23, 2022 13:28:21 GMT -5
The amount of Nightheart hate here surprises me. Lol For me, his chapter hurt to read for opposite reasons. I couldn’t stand how cold everybody was to him. I really liked these three chapters because it shows that all three main characters have something in common. They all are experiencing isolation among their clans. Nightheart being avoided and criticized constantly for just trying to be his self, because his clan mates believe that he is not meeting their expectations. Frostpaw being in an unusual position of medicine cat, having pressure put on her to solve the clan’s major problems with little help from others, and with both of her parents recently dead. Sunbeam getting isolated by having relationship drama ruin her friendships she once had and how her clan mates treat her.
I am expecting to see tension with Sunbeam and Berryheart, like Nightheart and Sparkpelt. Agreed! It seems to be the point though that ThunderClan is being the way it is with Nightheart right now. Since things are also from his perspective in this regard. And the theory of him being an unreliable narrator was pretty much debunked too since it was confirmed in this excerpt that cats have indeed had certain unfair expectations of him. I really am excited to read Sky in full this November because allll three protagonists are very likeable to me right now and I cannot wait for the book to get released!
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Post by rabbit on Sept 23, 2022 13:47:18 GMT -5
The amount of Nightheart hate here surprises me. Lol For me, his chapter hurt to read for opposite reasons. I couldn’t stand how cold everybody was to him. I really liked these three chapters because it shows that all three main characters have something in common. They all are experiencing isolation among their clans. Nightheart being avoided and criticized constantly for just trying to be his self, because his clan mates believe that he is not meeting their expectations. Frostpaw being in an unusual position of medicine cat, having pressure put on her to solve the clan’s major problems with little help from others, and with both of her parents recently dead. Sunbeam getting isolated by having relationship drama ruin her friendships she once had and how her clan mates treat her.
I am expecting to see tension with Sunbeam and Berryheart, like Nightheart and Sparkpelt. Agreed! It seems to be the point though that ThunderClan is being the way it is with Nightheart right now. Since things are also from his perspective in this regard. And the theory of him being an unreliable narrator was pretty much debunked too since it was confirmed in this excerpt that cats have indeed had certain unfair expectations of him. I really am excited to read Sky in full this November because allll three protagonists are very likeable to me right now and I cannot wait for the book to get released! Yes! I am really liking this arc so far.
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Post by halogen on Sept 23, 2022 13:58:52 GMT -5
The amount of Nightheart hate here surprises me. Lol For me, his chapter hurt to read for opposite reasons. I couldn’t stand how cold everybody was to him. I really liked these three chapters because it shows that all three main characters have something in common. They all are experiencing isolation among their clans. Nightheart being avoided and criticized constantly for just trying to be his self, because his clan mates believe that he is not meeting their expectations. Frostpaw being in an unusual position of medicine cat, having pressure put on her to solve the clan’s major problems with little help from others, and with both of her parents recently dead. Sunbeam getting isolated by having relationship drama ruin her friendships she once had and how her clan mates treat her.
I am expecting to see tension with Sunbeam and Berryheart, like Nightheart and Sparkpelt. Agreed! It seems to be the point though that ThunderClan is being the way it is with Nightheart right now. Since things are also from his perspective in this regard. And the theory of him being an unreliable narrator was pretty much debunked too since it was confirmed in this excerpt that cats have indeed had certain unfair expectations of him. I really am excited to read Sky in full this November because allll three protagonists are very likeable to me right now and I cannot wait for the book to get released! Or alternatively he was being unreliable about the expectations on him before this, and people are upset about his name change not because they expected him to be like Firestar from the start but because they consider it rude and disrespectful to go against a naming ceremony - still unfair to him, but doesn't necesarily mean he was vindicated from the beginning about everyone wanting him to be like Firestar.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
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Villain Enjoyer
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Sept 23, 2022 14:47:45 GMT -5
Agreed! It seems to be the point though that ThunderClan is being the way it is with Nightheart right now. Since things are also from his perspective in this regard. And the theory of him being an unreliable narrator was pretty much debunked too since it was confirmed in this excerpt that cats have indeed had certain unfair expectations of him. I really am excited to read Sky in full this November because allll three protagonists are very likeable to me right now and I cannot wait for the book to get released! Or alternatively he was being unreliable about the expectations on him before this, and people are upset about his name change not because they expected him to be like Firestar from the start but because they consider it rude and disrespectful to go against a naming ceremony - still unfair to him, but doesn't necesarily mean he was vindicated from the beginning about everyone wanting him to be like Firestar. Or both of those things can be true at the same time. As I've said before, I'm seeing both sides of the story/argument here. ThunderClan as a whole (but his family in particular which still refers to most of the Clan at this point) of course holds Firestar in high regard and wants his memory to be respected. That being said, Nightheart also has a right to be upset at getting compared to Firestar and not wanting his name to be in relation to something which is upsetting to him. Simple as that.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 23, 2022 16:04:53 GMT -5
Or alternatively he was being unreliable about the expectations on him before this, and people are upset about his name change not because they expected him to be like Firestar from the start but because they consider it rude and disrespectful to go against a naming ceremony - still unfair to him, but doesn't necesarily mean he was vindicated from the beginning about everyone wanting him to be like Firestar. Or both of those things can be true at the same time. As I've said before, I'm seeing both sides of the story/argument here. ThunderClan as a whole (but his family in particular which still refers to most of the Clan at this point) of course holds Firestar in high regard and wants his memory to be respected. That being said, Nightheart also has a right to be upset at getting compared to Firestar and not wanting his name to be in relation to something which is upsetting to him. Simple as that. Also if it really was just because he rejected his naming ceremony, I highly doubt ThunderClan would be giving him so much problem. ThunderClan of all clans is known to be one of the most inclusive clans in general (probably next to SkyClan pre-Darktail), and they've had situations where cats didn't change their names. Like Daisy who still stayed as Daisy, or even more blatantly, Millie who rejected her warrior name change completely. There was also Brightheart who had her name changed by Firestar to reflect her more than the scars she was given from her attack, etc. Name changes aren't unheard of, nor are they only exclusive to ThunderClan.
It's because Nightheart rejected a name that is honored after Firestar himself, that they're taking so much offense to it. Sparkpelt literally confirms it in their argument. To them, him rejecting his warrior name is the same as rejecting Firestar, and dishonoring him. Which by all accounts is ridiculous, since Nightheart is HIS own person, and he should be allowed to have a name he's comfortable with. He even points out that part of his name is still technically attached to Fireheart, yet it's still not enough apparently. They want him to be Flameheart, and don't even respect him as Nightheart, which imo is unfair.
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Post by *Faith* on Sept 23, 2022 16:54:22 GMT -5
Just a side note on Nightheart, I doubt he's gonna move to ShC. If he does then there wouldn't be a TC POV. Would the team really do that?
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Post by Bristleflight-bristlefrost! on Sept 23, 2022 17:54:34 GMT -5
So excited can't wait till November many good things are happening over the Corse of this year my b day new books new plush and minis Holadays and I'm going on a trip!
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Post by Mistybreeze on Sept 24, 2022 23:31:02 GMT -5
First off, everything Maple said. They are spot on.
I must admit to my bias here, for I have experienced a version of what Nightheart is going through. The ridiculously high expectations for everything I did, treating me like a clone rather than my own unique person, and harsh criticism when I didn't measure up. I will spare you all the details, but I understand fully what Nightheart is going through here. And his emotions? His actions, especially the need to prove himself worthy of his family's love despite knowing full well it won't matter? Everything is dead on. Dead. On. He is easily the most realistic character of the series.
Everyone reactions to abuse differently. The stereotype is the broken down shadow of an individual, who cowers under the blows in order to survive. Then you have the ones who get angry. They fight back against the abuse with whatever means available to them. They're much more likely to escape the abuse than the cowered one. The cowered victim will receive nothing but sympathy and help from society. The fighter victim will receive scorn and dismissal of their abuse. Very few individuals might see past their hard exterior, but the majority will judge them for it. Nightheart is clearly a fighter, not just from his actions, but from how the fandom has reacted to him. Abuse victims are often ignored, and that's why I think the team has gone to such lengths already to prove that he is a reliable narrator.
"But Nightheart wasn't abused. He's just too sensitive!" Yes, he has been. Compare him to any other character who had failed a warrior assessment. How did their family react? Did we even see a reaction? Bristlefrost failed her first attempt. How did Rosepetal react? Better luck next time. No yelling, no criticism whatsoever. Lilyheart's reaction to Nightheart failing was more or less the same. But Squirrelflight? She took personal offence to it, as though Nightheart was purposefully failing. Nightheart is still very young. He should be allowed to make mistakes. Instead, he is expected to be perfect. Every single time. It's true we haven't seen a lot of instances of abuse so far, but there's an explanation for that too. Personally, the abuse reached its peak for me when I was a teenager. Apprenticeships take place during the cat equivalent of adolescence. We only saw the very end of his apprenticeship.
And then we have the reactions to his new name. They clearly see him as part of a unit. A nameless automaton who always acts as expected and never has an original thought. Nightheart has the audacity to rebel against this prescribed life and is being punished for it. The verbal abuse being hurled at him right now is attended to force him back in line. Break him down so they can build him back up in their image. Nightheart understands this, and that's why he's so reactive. He doesn't know when the next attack is coming, so he has to be on his guard at all times. Myrtlebloom wasn't being abusive, but he viewed her as a safe person. When a safe person inadvertently sides with the abusers, the victim will feel betrayed and pulled back even more. Exactly what we saw with Nightheart.
Since the new team has taken over, I've noticed a sharp turn into portraying real life problems and pushing more obvious morals. Sexism = The Sisters, Racism = ShadowClan's treatment by the other Clans, Physical abuse = Tom and Turtle Tail, etc. There are more examples, but you get the idea. We've already had the cowered victim in the form of Shrewtooth. Now we have the fighter victim in the form of Nightheart.
"But why Nightheart? Why not Sparkpelt, who actually looks like Firestar?" To highlight absurdity of it all. Yes, Nightheart looks nothing like Firestar. But he does resemble his father, who is also dead. And yet he was named after his great-grandfather instead. This is ancestor and hero worship taken to a toxic degree. Firestar was undoubtedly an incredible leader. But he is not the norm. To expect every cat descended from him to act exactly the same is insane. Comparisons between similar looking family members is common and sort of natural. We see it a lot within Tigerstar's family. By picking Nightheart as the token example, the team is making it crystal clear how absurd the whole situation is.
Abusers do not stop until they get what they want. What Sparkpelt wants is her son to fall in line. But Nightheart is not going to do that. So he has two options. Stay and endure abuse for the foreseeable future, or leave. Leaving would certainly be the healthier option here. Things are only going to get worse in ThunderClan unless he folds. For irl victims of abuse, leaving is usually the only safe option they have. There are many abusive parents out there. Kids are often expected to endure it just because the abusers are their parents. Going no contact is still treated as taboo in many places. A protagonist in an internationally successful series going no contact with abusive family members will help a lot of readers out there.
My predictions. Things will only get worse for Nightheart. His first chapter is only a taste for what is to come. He will become more and more miserable and start looking for a sympathetic ear. This will likely be Sunbeam. He will vent to her and she will validate his feelings. They eventually become friends. Nightheart somehow hears Tawnypelt's story, if he hasn't already. He will sit down with her at a Gathering and talk to her about it. He sees how well Tawnypelt has done since leaving and decide enough is enough. He decides to join ShadowClan at the end of the book. ShadowClan would be the perfect Clan to join. He has kin there, a leader who has experienced the same and will likely be sympathetic to his plight, and it doesn't share a border with ThunderClan so he doesn't have to see his former Clanmates often.
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Post by Jaysnow on Sept 26, 2022 0:42:32 GMT -5
Just a side note on Nightheart, I doubt he's gonna move to ShC. If he does then there wouldn't be a TC POV. Would the team really do that? The vagueness in Shadow's blurb is what makes me think he'll move to ShadowClan. He's not mentioned at all. I think the plot is building up to that for this reason. It would be nice to get a break from ThunderClan. They might or might not do it but I think Nightheart moving is a safe bet..
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Sept 26, 2022 2:58:18 GMT -5
Just a side note on Nightheart, I doubt he's gonna move to ShC. If he does then there wouldn't be a TC POV. Would the team really do that? The vagueness in Shadow's blurb is what makes me think he'll move to ShadowClan. He's not mentioned at all. I think the plot is building up to that for this reason. It would be nice to get a break from ThunderClan. They might or might not do it but I think Nightheart moving is a safe bet.. Or the vagueness of that blurb is simply because they did not want to reveal what happened in Sky which probably has plot points getting continued or might even be resolved in Shadow. Book threes in this series tend to have some important stuff happening in them, after all. I doubt ASC will be much different there. I'm thinking that Nightheart moving to ShadowClan (or any other Clan) will only be temporarily. Having two protagonist PoVs in one Clan would also be rather unnecessary.
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Post by Hollyfall on Sept 28, 2022 19:38:08 GMT -5
Re-reading the prologue again makes me realize that once again, Mistystar is making terrible decisions. You don't want to warn your Clan about what's to come or even try to help? Reedwhisker very clearly wants to interfere and I honestly feel bad for him. I get StarClan constantly meddling in affairs can be annoying, but this a bit of a special case. Poor Mothwing and Frostpaw can't keep leading by themselves.
You tell her.
A more minor thing, but poor Duskfur went to go retrieve her daughter's body after taking it as hard as she did? That's heartbreaking.
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 28, 2022 19:58:24 GMT -5
Re-reading the prologue again makes me realize that once again, Mistystar is making terrible decisions. You don't want to warn your Clan about what's to come or even try to help? Reedwhisker very clearly wants to interfere and I honestly feel bad for him. I get StarClan constantly meddling in affairs can be annoying, but this a bit of a special case. Poor Mothwing and Frostpaw can't keep leading by themselves. According to Mistystar, she's already tried to warn RiverClan directly, but can't for some reason, so I'm wondering if this'll be elaborated on later or if this is just some handwave that'll never get brought up again.
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Post by Jaysnow on Sept 28, 2022 20:03:01 GMT -5
Celebratory post because my copy is now preordered. I wish I could get it early like Faith, Hollyfall, and Spinestar have but Im not that lucky.
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Asexual
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Ṣanɗypaw™
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Sept 28, 2022 20:48:30 GMT -5
Celebratory post because my copy is now preordered. I wish I could get it early like Faith, Hollyfall, and Spinestar have but Im not that lucky. Congrats! Hope it comes soon.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Sept 29, 2022 10:21:47 GMT -5
Celebratory post because my copy is now preordered. I wish I could get it early like Faith, Hollyfall, and Spinestar have but Im not that lucky. Good for you! I preordered my copy back at the end of August (for some reason) and mine will arrive on November 11th. I'm actually debating wether or not to pass on the spoiler thread for Sky because of me wanting to read a few things for myself properly instead of only getting a secondhand account of events through spoiler threads first. No disrespect meant to the generous (and lucky) souls getting these books so early and sharing the content with us though. But then again, I'll probably not be able to help myself and read through the spoiler thread for this book regardless. So oh well.
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Post by Hollyfall on Sept 29, 2022 11:27:48 GMT -5
Celebratory post because my copy is now preordered. I wish I could get it early like Faith, Hollyfall, and Spinestar have but Im not that lucky. Oh nice! I'm hoping to get mine either mid October or late October, depending when my bookstore updates.
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Post by Jaysnow on Sept 29, 2022 11:29:22 GMT -5
Celebratory post because my copy is now preordered. I wish I could get it early like Faith, Hollyfall, and Spinestar have but Im not that lucky. Oh nice! I'm hoping to get mine either mid October or late October, depending when my bookstore updates. You will probably get yours first. I'm going to (try) to avoid spoilers though.
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Post by Jaysnow on Sept 29, 2022 11:48:39 GMT -5
Celebratory post because my copy is now preordered. I wish I could get it early like Faith, Hollyfall, and Spinestar have but Im not that lucky. Good for you! I preordered my copy back at the end of August (for some reason) and mine will arrive on November 11th. I'm actually debating wether or not to pass on the spoiler thread for Sky because of me wanting to read a few things for myself properly instead of only getting a secondhand account of events through spoiler threads first. No disrespect meant to the generous (and lucky) souls getting these books so early and sharing the content with us though. But then again, I'll probably not be able to help myself and read through the spoiler thread for this book regardless. So oh well. Thanks. i'm in the same boat. I wish I had avoided spoilers for Onestar's Confession because I'm actually liking it a lot, and it would have been nice to go in spoiler free. I'm going to avoid Sky spoilers.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
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Villain Enjoyer
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Sept 29, 2022 12:05:13 GMT -5
Good for you! I preordered my copy back at the end of August (for some reason) and mine will arrive on November 11th. I'm actually debating wether or not to pass on the spoiler thread for Sky because of me wanting to read a few things for myself properly instead of only getting a secondhand account of events through spoiler threads first. No disrespect meant to the generous (and lucky) souls getting these books so early and sharing the content with us though. But then again, I'll probably not be able to help myself and read through the spoiler thread for this book regardless. So oh well. Thanks. i'm in the same boat. I wish I had avoided spoilers for Onestar's Confession because I'm actually liking it a lot, and it would have been nice to go in spoiler free. I'm going to avoid Sky spoilers. Once again good for you, about enjoying OC! But I'm still glad to have cancelled my preorder on that book for now and will just buy the paperback version next year for half the price instead.
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Post by Snowfire on Sept 29, 2022 21:57:07 GMT -5
I'm gonna bet on it now, I think Lightleap was actually worried about Blazefire getting sick, not Rowankit, just a thought
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Post by Jaysnow on Sept 30, 2022 20:45:04 GMT -5
What do you think she was about to say?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2022 20:48:28 GMT -5
What do you think she was about to say? Pretty sure it was just going to be "He's been worried about you".
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Post by Jaysnow on Sept 30, 2022 20:51:01 GMT -5
Okay so it seems like the two main things going on in this book are the greencough problem (here's to hoping it actually kills off some characters) and the RiverClan succession crisis.
SkyClan seems like they'll be getting involved via the issue with herbs. I guess that's how Fidgetflake factors into the cover with Sunbeam by his side.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Oct 1, 2022 3:18:05 GMT -5
A recent video I watched featured a theory of Sky possibly being a travelling book. Really hoping that will not be the case though because those tend to be my least favorite books in the main series. And they better not send them to the Tribe again instead or I might die of boredom.
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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 1, 2022 6:13:50 GMT -5
A recent video I watched featured a theory of Sky possibly being a travelling book. Really hoping that will not be the case though because those tend to be my least favorite books in the main series. And they better not send them to the Tribe again instead or I might die of boredom. Hmm. Maybe. There could be a mini quest shoved in the book, like the quest to find the Sisters in Darkness Within.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Oct 1, 2022 9:14:37 GMT -5
A recent video I watched featured a theory of Sky possibly being a travelling book. Really hoping that will not be the case though because those tend to be my least favorite books in the main series. And they better not send them to the Tribe again instead or I might die of boredom. Hmm. Maybe. There could be a mini quest shoved in the book, like the quest to find the Sisters in Darkness Within. True. And I would much prefer that/not even be opposed to this. Just as long as it will not be a full travelling book and especially not yet another pointless trip to the Tribe, I'm game for a small quest in regards to the very possible catmint shortage.
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