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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2022 20:04:10 GMT -5
She’s one of my favourite characters, I love her. However, she’s made some questionable choices and I can completely understand why people dislike her, she’s incredibly flawed, which is one of the reasons I like her so much. This
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jun 23, 2022 20:53:24 GMT -5
@bristlefrostmadrigal Hey don't feel bad. Just because the majority of people aren't rooting for Squirrelstar here doesn't make your opinion on Squirrelstar less valid. You can still like Squirrelstar even if others don't It’s weird, this is the only place in the warriors fandom I see widespread Squirrelflight hate. Outside these forums the idea of Squirrelestar is considered a generally popular idea, and Squirrelflight is widely loved. This forum is mostly 20+ fans, so there's more complex views on things, I feel than the young teens
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jun 23, 2022 23:02:31 GMT -5
i have to be honest. i think part of why i dislike her is because when i was 11, my library didnt have a copy of Dawn, so i had to listen to the audiobook instead. i absolutely hated the voice for squirrelpaw so much. every time she had a line i wanted her to die. i think that still influences my view of her as a character.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Jun 23, 2022 23:55:26 GMT -5
Love her, hate her fans
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2022 0:06:46 GMT -5
Agree, most Squirrelflight fans I know are really nice but I know that sadly there are some who take it too far
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Post by brightheartt on Jun 24, 2022 3:01:53 GMT -5
It’s weird, this is the only place in the warriors fandom I see widespread Squirrelflight hate. Outside these forums the idea of Squirrelestar is considered a generally popular idea, and Squirrelflight is widely loved. This forum is mostly 20+ fans, so there's more complex views on things, I feel than the young teens That’s quite an assumption about how people who are 20+ in the fandom generally view things outside these forums. I am 20+ myself and I personally like Squirrelflight, and I know a lot of 20+ warriors fans outside these forums that also like Squirrelflight. What did you hope to achieve by posting this? Because in one fell swoop you have both offended teenagers and anyone over the age of 20 who likes Squirrelflight. Squirrelflight is a popular character among all age groups outside these forums, and a lot of her fans I have seen are 20+
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
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BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Finally reading Wind!
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jun 24, 2022 7:10:32 GMT -5
It’s weird, this is the only place in the warriors fandom I see widespread Squirrelflight hate. Outside these forums the idea of Squirrelestar is considered a generally popular idea, and Squirrelflight is widely loved. This forum is mostly 20+ fans, so there's more complex views on things, I feel than the young teens Reading your comment on here, I remembered you posting something similar in nature on the Gender thread about Sunnyfall's video in regards to her young age (early twenties) somehow having to do with being less concise or something like that. This seems like yet another situation were you rather unfairly judge people's ability to express themselves based on their age but with teenagers instead. Not cool. As a Squirrelflight fan (in my early twenties as well), I'm not exactly sure why younger Squirrelflight fans would not be able to have complex opinions on her just like older fans (or haters and anything in between).
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jun 24, 2022 7:54:22 GMT -5
This forum is mostly 20+ fans, so there's more complex views on things, I feel than the young teens Reading your comment on here, I remembered you posting something similar in nature on the Gender thread about Sunnyfall's video in regards to her young age (early twenties) somehow having to do with being less concise or something like that. This seems like yet another situation were you rather unfairly judge people's ability to express themselves based on their age but with teenagers instead. Not cool. As a Squirrelflight fan (in my early twenties as well), I'm not exactly sure why younger Squirrelflight fans would not be able to have complex opinions on her just like older fans (or haters and anything in between). Nothing Ottersplash said was offensive. They’re just pointing out that the average age of these forums is on the older side than most Warrior fandom spaces on the internet, and that might influence the forum fanbase’s common opinion on a character. Nobody said that teens are incapable of complex opinions. However, yeah, it’s true that teens tend to formulate more black-and-white views on stuff than adults because they’re still maturing/developing. That’s not an insult. It doesn’t discredit their opinions. It’s just a fact that’s worth taking into consideration regarding how that might influence popular opinion.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jun 24, 2022 9:16:59 GMT -5
As already stated above. I don’t think Ottersplash is implying that teenagers are unintelligent are incapable of well-thought out and concise opinions/stances on characters/plot points etc. are that the opinions of the younger audience are invalidated. Merely pointing out the objective fact the median age group on this particular platform is older than other sector’s of the Warriors community. And that in general you’ll find more complex, profound and thoroughly analyzed reviews and opinions on things, given most people are not only older, but have been reading these books for 10+ years, and have formulated their own opinions on things, and don’t tend to latch onto the opinions of the media influencers as readily as the younger generation, doesn’t mean the younger folks opinions are invalid. just to keep in mind most people have deeply ingrained opinions from thoughtful analyzation, and persuading them to think otherwise isn’t going to be easy. And just because someone disagrees with your opinion, doesn’t devalue it.
Anyways. Back on topic. As a ex-Squirrelflight fan, I can undoubtedly say whether I still enjoyed her or not. I’d still want her to be iced or retired permanently for good. She’s dominated not only the books, but the fandom’s community since 2005. She’s oversaturated MAP’s discussion boards, fanart etc, the Fire scene alone probably has been recreated more than every other iconic scene in the series from my experience. And I think it’s fair to say, that after 17 years Squirrelflight has run her course. There’s nothing left unexplored with her, she’s practically a open book at this point. And her overshadowing the main protagonist’s in their stories is infuriating to me. And while she may be consistently written and developed character, she’s frankly grown very dull. She’s unchanging, she’s progressed and developed as far as she’s going to go. Her story has reached its climax, and it’s time to let her rest, and allow others to get the spotlight. She’s arguably a good character, but even Firestar only lasted 10 years, and the series was built off of him. Squirrelflight has nearly doubled that longevity and has accomplished much less. And it doesn’t help that the points people make saying she’s a good character is that she’s a strong women character, when the defining attribute of that trait is being an argumentative, hypocritical A$$hole 24/7, because THAT is something a good, strong person would do.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
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Villain Enjoyer
Finally reading Wind!
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jun 24, 2022 9:17:56 GMT -5
Reading your comment on here, I remembered you posting something similar in nature on the Gender thread about Sunnyfall's video in regards to her young age (early twenties) somehow having to do with being less concise or something like that. This seems like yet another situation were you rather unfairly judge people's ability to express themselves based on their age but with teenagers instead. Not cool. As a Squirrelflight fan (in my early twenties as well), I'm not exactly sure why younger Squirrelflight fans would not be able to have complex opinions on her just like older fans (or haters and anything in between). Nothing Ottersplash said was offensive. They’re just pointing out that the average age of these forums is on the older side than most Warrior fandom spaces on the internet, and that might influence the forum fanbase’s common opinion on a character. Nobody said that teens are incapable of complex opinions. However, yeah, it’s true that teens tend to formulate more black-and-white views on stuff than adults because they’re still maturing/developing. That’s not an insult. It doesn’t discredit their opinions. It’s just a fact that’s worth taking into consideration regarding how that might influence popular opinion. Nothing Ottersplash said was offensive to you,that's true. However, trying to generalize that into saying it did not offend anyone is not, considering there were two people who quoted Otter about this before I did and they took offense to it, which is their right to do. Also, saying that teens tend to often think in black and white might also be seen as yet another generalization to some. Then again, I'm not a teen anymore myself so it might be better to talk about this with someone who is and see their perspective on things. Just wanted to add my thoughts since Otter's post reminded me of another comment of theirs on a different thread.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jun 24, 2022 9:42:05 GMT -5
Nothing Ottersplash said was offensive. They’re just pointing out that the average age of these forums is on the older side than most Warrior fandom spaces on the internet, and that might influence the forum fanbase’s common opinion on a character. Nobody said that teens are incapable of complex opinions. However, yeah, it’s true that teens tend to formulate more black-and-white views on stuff than adults because they’re still maturing/developing. That’s not an insult. It doesn’t discredit their opinions. It’s just a fact that’s worth taking into consideration regarding how that might influence popular opinion. Nothing Ottersplash said was offensive to you,that's true. However, trying to generalize that into saying it did not offend anyone is not, considering there were two people who quoted Otter about this before I did and they took offense to it, which is their right to do. Also, saying that teens tend to often think in black and white might also be seen as yet another generalization to some. Then again, I'm not a teen anymore myself so it might be better to talk about this with someone who is and see their perspective on things. Just wanted to add my thoughts since Otter's post reminded me of another comment of theirs on a different thread. It's quite literally a fact that members on here ARE on the older side. The mods have literally made polls for ages when making changes to the rules on the forums based on it. At one point we weren't even allowed to swear as much before evaluating the age groups here. It is not a generalization, Ottersplash was literally pointing out a fact, and older members that have been here since 2016 - 2018, during the "big move" are aware of it. If you took what they said as offensive, that is your based on your own perception and assumptions. And everyone was younger at one point in their life regardless, even if a member is an older fan now, it wouldn't negate their opinions of when they were younger, and how they thought back in the day vs now a days. I used to be a Squirrel fan before the big move, but my opinions on her have changed, especially when she's been around for so many years and has become an oversaturated character. On top of that, the majority of Warriors fans started reading the series when they were at least in their younger years, its a series that's been out since 2003, with a reading age of 8+, which means a lot of those fans from that time are adults now.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Jun 24, 2022 9:44:26 GMT -5
As a teenager I was not at all offended by what otter said, please lets get back on topic on Squirrelflight/nm
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Post by ivysaur on Jun 24, 2022 10:20:09 GMT -5
I agree that oversaturation is what makes a lot of Squirrelflight fans lose their love for her as the books goes on. If you cut Warriors off at around OoTS, maybe even AVoS, she would be one of my favorite characters. Now after TBC, I have more of a love-hate relationship with her. I cannot erase nostalgia and my childhood love for her character will probably never go away but she's had too much time in the spotlight.
Look at SH, probably the most controversial book in recent memory. Aside from being a pain to read, that book was completely unnecessary. All it accomplished was introduce the Sisters and kill off Leafpool, both of which could have happened in the main series. It gave us that StarClan trial scene which I can say with confidence is the moment I hate the most in the entire series. Squirrelflight did not need to have a super edition, her arc was over a long time ago. All the book did was add fuel to the fire that is BrambleSquirrel discourse.
Squirrelflight has been a POV for TNP, had the three and Ashfur drama in PoT + OoTS, been featured in a manga short in Bramblestar's Storm, had a super edition, and another arc that's entirely dependent on her story in TBC. There is no other character comparable who gets as much attention, not even Firestar who is the face of the series. Her personality being headstrong, stubborn, and argumentative does not do her any favors. Either people can love her but still get tired of her or have never liked her in the first place and get more annoyed as time goes on.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jun 24, 2022 10:24:35 GMT -5
Back to the main subject.
I used to like Squirrelflight when I was younger, she was spunky, and I liked her relationship with Bramble. I remember how popular the two of them were back then, and my friends would joke about how they were like the equivalent of Kiara and Kovu from Lion King 2.
But as the series went on, and the books progressed, new generations appeared, and so on, I started to get a bit annoyed with how much spotlight Squirrelight, and other older characters, kept getting for that matter. It's interesting because I used to dislike Bramblestar at first, I used to love Crowfeather, I used to love Onewhisker, and I used to dislike Sandstorm too. But all of those opinions have flipped ever since I've reread the series once I was older, around when I was starting college.
My opinion on a lot of characters changed drastically. Heck, I even used to ship LeafCrow, now I downright can't stand that pairing and it's one of my least favorite ones of all time. So too has my opinion changed on Squirrelflight, and seeing her through an older lens, and her overall character in general, to the current way it is, made me just come to hate her. She felt stagnant like she didn't develop, sure she was consistent, but she never matured and had a lot of bratty tendencies. I used to like them back then, I liked how "fiery" she was, but now she felt like an annoyance, especially when she didn't get her way. I felt nothing but second-hand embarrassment whenever she did something idiotic and got called out for it. She didn't feel like an appealing character to me anymore.
Leafpool ended up being the opposite. I used to see her as irresponsible, bratty, and annoying because of what she did and how she behaved over Crowfeather. But then after seeing how much she's changed and matured, especially in AVoS, I actually came to love her a lot. So it was painful to see her finally go during SqH, which ironically was Squirrel's worst performance.
And even now, Squirrel has just gotten to a point where I can't enjoy her, not even find her redeemable in my eyes personally. The way she and Sparkpelt treated Nightheart just made me super uncomfortable. And the way she doesn't even take Bramble's choices into consideration anymore, irks me, she's just setting him up to be mocked, it's embarrassing. At this point I just want her gone, and I'd like more focus on the main characters for once, not her.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jun 24, 2022 11:32:56 GMT -5
Squirrelflight is one of my favorite characters, i love her personality, her story, and her character. I love how complex and enjoyable character she is. But i do agree with other people that she's overstayed her welcome. Her arc was done a lot of time ago. I wish the Erins didin't have to keep relying on cats of previous arcs to continue the books.
Also, am i the only one who feels as if the Squirrelflight from previous books was way more enjoyable? I feel as if they purposefully regressed the character development she got through the series up until Bramblestar's Storm, where she was more mellowed out but still a bit fiery. I feel that when she became deputy she had already matured. Hell, even after the Jessy drama, she and Bramblestar had finally grown into a healthy relationship. However, it seems like the current books regressed all her maturity and made her act like an apprentice again, even waaaay more exaggerated. This has also happened with Bramblestar, making him act so horribly torwards her. Am i the only one who feels like this?
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Jun 24, 2022 11:42:56 GMT -5
🔥Firestar🔥 Yeah I agree, I liked her in PoT and such since it did feel like she grew as a character but I feel like in the recent arcs she's gone back to her old ways a bit. Same of Bramblestar as well
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2022 11:48:05 GMT -5
What the heck did I miss while I was sleeping?
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 24, 2022 11:52:17 GMT -5
I like her, but I do think the hate she gets on here is a bit much. That being said, I also wouldn't mind if she died or at least retired. I really can't see her becoming leader and it's frankly amazing she made it to become deputy at all.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jun 24, 2022 12:18:27 GMT -5
Nothing Ottersplash said was offensive to you,that's true. However, trying to generalize that into saying it did not offend anyone is not, considering there were two people who quoted Otter about this before I did and they took offense to it, which is their right to do. Also, saying that teens tend to often think in black and white might also be seen as yet another generalization to some. Then again, I'm not a teen anymore myself so it might be better to talk about this with someone who is and see their perspective on things. Just wanted to add my thoughts since Otter's post reminded me of another comment of theirs on a different thread. It's quite literally a fact that members on here ARE on the older side. The mods have literally made polls for ages when making changes to the rules on the forums based on it. At one point we weren't even allowed to swear as much before evaluating the age groups here. It is not a generalization, Ottersplash was literally pointing out a fact, and older members that have been here since 2016 - 2018, during the "big move" are aware of it. If you took what they said as offensive, that is your based on your own perception and assumptions. And everyone was younger at one point in their life regardless, even if a member is an older fan now, it wouldn't negate their opinions of when they were younger, and how they thought back in the day vs now a days. I used to be a Squirrel fan before the big move, but my opinions on her have changed, especially when she's been around for so many years and has become an oversaturated character. On top of that, the majority of Warriors fans started reading the series when they were at least in their younger years, its a series that's been out since 2003, with a reading age of 8+, which means a lot of those fans from that time are adults now. I never denied let alone even talked about the fact that the majority of people on here tend to be on the "older" side. Not sure where you saw me imply this was not true but I'm not trying to dispute this in the slightest. Me taking issue with Ottersplash's comment was in regards to it seemingly implying that teens were not as capable of having complex thoughts about Squirrelflight based on the wording in Otter's post. (so it was still on the topic of this thread which is Squirrelflight). Perhaps I misinterpreted it and this really was not meant to generalize. But it doesn't change the fact to have offended others. Even if the intent was not even meant to offend anyone, it still did and that is valid.
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Post by Sand on Jun 24, 2022 15:04:03 GMT -5
I'd like to suggest we get back on topic due to the fact people may be offending each other by being rude. If you can't do that, then peace out, A-Town.
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