Asexual
#07B04C
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Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Dec 8, 2021 18:25:08 GMT -5
I love how they included scars on Ivypool! It goes really well with how I imagined her. I actually thought she was Brightheart for a moment when I looking at the first picture XD.
I love Squirrelflight's design so much!! It looks like her pelt is really fiery with the way her design is. I wish her eyes were a darker forest green though. Other than that hers is my favorite design with her bushy tail and white paw. <3
I like Ashfur's slanted eyes a lot- I feel like it goes well with him.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 9, 2021 14:31:38 GMT -5
Another Update: The new Minis are now listed on the store alongside the also upcoming Plushies but there is no official release date as of yet. It just said on the Warrior Cats website to keep a lookout for the eventual launch.
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Post by Aqua on Dec 9, 2021 15:16:49 GMT -5
Squirrelflight looks nice, so does Scourge, and I really like Ashfur's design too. I'm a little disappointed in Ivypool's though. Her marks look odd, but I'm glad they tried to make her look accurate.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 10, 2021 7:28:58 GMT -5
Important Update: Both the new Minis (Ashfur, Mudclaw, Squirrelflight, Scourge, Yellowfang, Ivypool) and the large Plushies (Cinderpelt, Leafpool, Ivypool) are now available to purchase on the official Warrior Cats website store. They might even arrive in time for Christmas in some regions of the world but sadly not everywhere.
Edit for specifics: While going on the website store to buy some of the new merch a few days ago, I saw a message at the top stating the following and just thought sharing it on here still might be helpful for people to know: Last order dates for Christmas delivery are 15th December (for UK), 8th December (for Europe) 6th December (for the rest of the world).
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 10, 2021 17:51:13 GMT -5
Last Update (for real this time): I just went on the website to see if the Minis also got some descriptions like the Plushies already did and only now saw that they indeed had some of their own. So here they are for anyone who is interested to read and share their thoughts on them: Mudclaw & Ashfur (slight TBC Spoilers because of Ashfur) These two cats could tell quite a tale of the dangers of bitterness. After serving for moons as a loyal deputy of WindClan, Mudclaw felt cheated when his chance to lead was stolen from him with Tallstar’s dying breath. He convinced himself that his replacement, Onewhisker, was too dangerously naïve to be the leader WindClan needed, and led a rebellion to overthrow him. After dying during the battle, Mudclaw realized how wrong he’d been to rise against his own Clanmate, and made his peace with Onewhisker and Tallstar. Ashfur, on the other hand, allowed his bitterness against Squirrelflight for refusing to return his love to consume him entirely, turning him into one of the most dangerous adversaries the Clans have ever faced. In life, he attempted to murder Squirrelflight’s kits in a fire and succeeded in claiming one of Firestar’s through Hawkfrost’s fox trap, but the true danger he posed didn’t become apparent until after his death, when Bramblestar lost his first life and Ashfur took over his body. Squirrelflight & ScourgeThough these two share kinship ties through Firestar, the turns their lives took couldn’t be more different. As a young kittypet, young Tiny was tormented by his littermates, and when he dared to venture beyond his own garden, he suffered a vicious assault from ThunderClan apprentice Tigerpaw. Tiny, now calling himself Scourge, allowed his bitterness at the world to grow and fester like ice inside of him, forming BloodClan from the vicious rogues of Twolegplace and ruling over them with an iron paw, waiting for the chance to pay back Tigerstar’s early viciousness with blood. Meanwhile, Squirrelflight grew up safe and loved within the safety of ThunderClan’s camp, and her bond with her only sister was one of the closest and most loving any cat could ever hope for. Her boundless courage and enthusiasm led her to becoming one of the cats to lead the Clans to their new home, and while her fierce loyalty to her sister would came to test her in ways she never could have imagined, she has proved her devotion to her Clan and her family beyond any doubt. Yellowfang & IvypoolFew cats have faced such darkness and danger as these courageous she-cats. Yellowfang’s secret affair with Raggedstar brought into the world one of the cruellest leaders the forest has ever known, forcing this brave, long-suffering she-cat to blind, and later kill, her own son to save the forest. While her time in ShadowClan ended in horror and suffering, she eventually found peace in ThunderClan, and a new son in the brave and noble Firestar. Meanwhile, Ivypool’s resentment of her sister brought her to the Dark Forest, where Hawkfrost preyed on her insecurities to tempt her into training with him. Once she realized the true intentions of her Dark Forest mentors, she turned spy for the Clans, risking her life among murderers and traitors every night in order to learn valuable information for the battle to come. |
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 11, 2021 8:04:27 GMT -5
So there still defining Ashfur bitterness and resentment and the hundred other negative emotions he possesses being rooted from Squirrelflight’s refusal to return his affections/love? And not because he’s an obsessive, impulsive, vindictive, possessive, Controlling uncle or stalker??? Thought the whole point of his drastic downward spiral, and maniacal characterization in TBC was intended to disprove that notion. They are still defining it as such because that was literally the point of his character development and importance to the story in the first place, starting all the way back in the second half of TNP. Before getting randomly chosen by the authors (including Vicky Holmes) to become Squirrelflight's shortlived love interest and temporary part of a love triangle between himself, her and Brambleclaw, Ashfur did not have much personality besides being the foster brother of Cloudtail and mourning the death of his mother Brindleface who got murdered by Brambleclaw's father Tigerstar. Which was something he held some resentment towards Brambleclaw for who knows how long. All of the negative emotions besides getting rejected by Squirrelflight that you have listed (obsessive, controlling, possessive and so on) are a result of his love for her not being returned. Perhaps they will give him another reason for it when he will get a Novella or even a Super Edition. Which I'm fairly certain is going to happen sooner than later (a novella in 2022 or an SE in 2023/24 could indeed be possible since he is a popular villain character again). But I highly doubt there is much more motivation to his madness overall. I just looked up his profile on the Wiki and didn't even have to look far since his top quote on there really says it all. Even if these issues have a deeper meaning or are rooted in something else, it doesn't change the fact that Squirrelflight's rejection was the catalyst for Ashfur's downfall. ALitM Spoiler "Why are you all so full of yourselves? ThunderClan was just the same when I was alive. So smug. Just like you are now. You all think you're so loyal, but when Squirrelflight dumped me for Bramblestar, none of my Clanmates stood by me. Not one. But I showed them. I ruled them all. They did whatever I told them to do. They exiled their Clanmates and fought each other, just to please me. And yet Squirrelflight still didn't appreciate how powerful I was. She acted like I was an ordinary warrior. She dismissed me like an apprentice. But I didn't give up. I brought her here. I thought we could be mates at last. I thought we could rule the Dark Forest together. [...] To be with me, of course. But she only wanted Bramblestar. [...] I'm going to destroy more than the Clans. I'm going to destroy the Dark Forest and StarClan along with it. StarClan can't survive without the Dark Forest. This place is no more than a miserable reflection of StarClan, and as it vanishes, so will StarClan. I bet it's already started. The fog will be swallowing up their precious hunting grounds. They have so much territory, they probably haven't even noticed yet—but, when they do, they won't be able to stop it. Once this place is gone. StarClan won't be far behind. It won't be long until they've all disappeared. Once the Dark Forest is gone, I'll be free to return to the lake. I'll make Squirrelflight suffer. She'll pay for betraying me, along with every cat she's ever cared about. Eventually she'll beg me to stop and become my mate. I wonder how many cats will have to suffer before she—"
— Ashfur to Rootspring while in the Dark Forest in A Light in the Mist, page 108-111
When it comes to the purpose TBC served in the main storyline, it was written and happened to fix one of the many questionable decisions Vicky Holmes made as chief editor all those years ago where she decided to let Ashfur join StarClan for just "loving too much" despite him being involved in a plot with Hawkfrost to murder his own leader just because Firestar's daughter didn't want him as a mate (this cost Firestar a life) and later trying to burn Squirrelflight and her (adoptive) kits alive. I never witnessed the so called "Ashfur Wars" but fans of the series back then were very divided on the subject of wether or not Ashfur deserved StarClan or not. I'm not sure if the majority of them agreed with Vicky back in the day but these days this has definitely changed to most people thinking he should have never been allowed a place there and instead belonged in the Dark Forest. This change of mind in the fandom and the resulting outrage over him still not properly getting held accountable for his terrible actions must have certainly contributed to the new editors planning out TBC to show people what Ashfur had been all along. A monster. Sorry if this whole comment seems rather overdramatic and long but I'm among the fans who are glad to see Ashfur got what he deserved for his various crimes during TNP and PoT. Which was definitely not a redemption arc. So him finally being shown as the villain he always was truly gave me back some hope for this series and I just wanted to express that properly. |
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 11, 2021 14:20:35 GMT -5
echofall believe me I’m fully aware of the Ashfur wars since I was there when Omen of The Stars was releasing. My point was that their still characterizing and defining his actions as him just being grief-stricken and overwrought with anguish from being rejected, rather then an abusive, dangerous predator that a large portion of the fanbase both back then and now interpreted him as from their perspective. That’s the big divisive piece that got the fandom’s blood boiling, and was just finding it kinda weird they haven’t changed it, and still depict him as “loving too much” instead of an obsessive/manipulative etc predator/stalker since that’s what most people had gripes about. Personally, I was always neutral on Victoria Holmes decision, cause both sides of the argument are plausible explanations for his seeking revenge and lashing out in PoT and whatnot, Guess people just really wanted him depicted as an incel instead. And while Ashfur made an pretty good villain, all the ridiculous changes they had to make for him to work, ruined its reputability and authenticity, really wish they would of just used someone that was already in the Dark Forest, since all we would lose is the plot with Squirrelflight, which her story has been dragged out to death tbh, and made someone at the center of the conflict, but oh well. Ashfur being placed in Starclan was definitely a divisive decision and a polarizing one to make, but not exactly wrong either, and at the end of the day they where Victoria’s Characters and Her stories to tell, so she has the freedom to tell them or spin them how she liked, and really wish they just would of not gone through all the drastic changes to world consistencies and mechanics to fix something that wasn’t necessarily broken. Like okay he made it to heaven, now just leave him there, his story’s done, but each to their own.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 11, 2021 15:46:48 GMT -5
echofall believe me I’m fully aware of the Ashfur wars since I was there when Omen of The Stars was releasing. My point was that their still characterizing and defining his actions as him just being grief-stricken and overwrought with anguish from being rejected, rather then an abusive, dangerous predator that a large portion of the fanbase both back then and now interpreted him as from their perspective. That’s the big divisive piece that got the fandom’s blood boiling, and was just finding it kinda weird they haven’t changed it, and still depict him as “loving too much” instead of an obsessive/manipulative etc predator/stalker since that’s what most people had gripes about. Personally, I was always neutral on Victoria Holmes decision, cause both sides of the argument are plausible explanations for his seeking revenge and lashing out in PoT and whatnot, Guess people just really wanted him depicted as an incel instead. And while Ashfur made an pretty good villain, all the ridiculous changes they had to make for him to work, ruined its reputability and authenticity, really wish they would of just used someone that was already in the Dark Forest, since all we would lose is the plot with Squirrelflight, which her story has been dragged out to death tbh, and made someone at the center of the conflict, but oh well. Ashfur being placed in Starclan was definitely a divisive decision and a polarizing one to make, but not exactly wrong either, and at the end of the day they where Victoria’s Characters and Her stories to tell, so she has the freedom to tell them or spin them how she liked, and really wish they just would of not gone through all the drastic changes to world consistencies and mechanics to fix something that wasn’t necessarily broken. Like okay he made it to heaven, now just leave him there, his story’s done, but each to their own. To me, all of Ashfur's actions during TBC showed him for the abusive maniac he truly was all along so I think this is a matter of us two having different perceptions and perspectives of his role in that arc since most other fans could also see what he had always been like and people realize his true nature. Some of them have known for years and others are only now seeing it while there is one last group that still thinks he would have turned out fine if Squirrelflight had just chosen him instead which is completely untrue. But those hopefully few AshSquirrel shippers in the fandom are thankfully no longer in the the majority. While I'm not the biggest fan of TBC as an entire arc, I appreciate the new editing team correcting the mistake Vicky Holmes made when she gave Ashfur a place in StarClan. He did not deserve it after all the heinous things he did just because Squirrelflight "dared" to reject his advances and he "loved too much". That is incel behaviour right there. |
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 11, 2021 16:45:02 GMT -5
echofall believe me I’m fully aware of the Ashfur wars since I was there when Omen of The Stars was releasing. My point was that their still characterizing and defining his actions as him just being grief-stricken and overwrought with anguish from being rejected, rather then an abusive, dangerous predator that a large portion of the fanbase both back then and now interpreted him as from their perspective. That’s the big divisive piece that got the fandom’s blood boiling, and was just finding it kinda weird they haven’t changed it, and still depict him as “loving too much” instead of an obsessive/manipulative etc predator/stalker since that’s what most people had gripes about. Personally, I was always neutral on Victoria Holmes decision, cause both sides of the argument are plausible explanations for his seeking revenge and lashing out in PoT and whatnot, Guess people just really wanted him depicted as an incel instead. And while Ashfur made an pretty good villain, all the ridiculous changes they had to make for him to work, ruined its reputability and authenticity, really wish they would of just used someone that was already in the Dark Forest, since all we would lose is the plot with Squirrelflight, which her story has been dragged out to death tbh, and made someone at the center of the conflict, but oh well. Ashfur being placed in Starclan was definitely a divisive decision and a polarizing one to make, but not exactly wrong either, and at the end of the day they where Victoria’s Characters and Her stories to tell, so she has the freedom to tell them or spin them how she liked, and really wish they just would of not gone through all the drastic changes to world consistencies and mechanics to fix something that wasn’t necessarily broken. Like okay he made it to heaven, now just leave him there, his story’s done, but each to their own. To me, all of Ashfur's actions during TBC showed him for the abusive maniac he truly was all along so I think this is a matter of us two having different perceptions and perspectives of his role in that arc since most other fans could also see what he had always been like and people realize his true nature. Some of them have known for years and others are only now seeing it while there is one last group that still thinks he would have turned out fine if Squirrelflight had just chosen him instead which is completely untrue. But those hopefully few AshSquirrel shippers in the fandom are thankfully no longer in the the majority. While I'm not the biggest fan of TBC as an entire arc, I appreciate the new editing team correcting the mistake Vicky Holmes made when she gave Ashfur a place in StarClan. He did not deserve it after all the heinous things he did just because Squirrelflight "dared" to reject his advances and he "loved too much". That is incel behaviour right there. I’ve Never shipped AshSquirrel or thought they’d ever make a good pair in any way. I’m in no manner justifying or stating that Ashfur’s action are not criminal either, or what he did wasn’t wrong. I was merely shedding light on both sides of the story of how his motivations could be depicted in the scenario, was it Heartbreak and being overwrought with Grief that drove and motivated his actions? Or was he just an obsessive, manipulative predator/incel? That’s what’s been debated for over a decade, and both are plausible scenarios and motivations to lead someone to do what he did, just so happens that Victoria Holmes gave him the slightly less reprehensible option and people didn’t like it, but it wasn’t wrong or incorrect portrayal. I’ve personally have known, hung around, worked with, and associated with Both types, but I’m not gonna go into an explicit heated debate about it because that’d just get this thread locked. And whether or not he Should of gone to the Dark Forest or Starclan is a question with no definitive answer, as it’s highly relative and subjective to every individual’s personal beliefs and opinions of the afterlife how people will be judged and their iniquities will be weighed to determine their entrance into heaven or condemnation to hell, which varies drastically person to person. All TBC did in my mind regarding Ashfur, was make a bunch of outrageous changes and Narrative inconsistencies and retcons in order to rectify a mistake that wasn’t ever definitively a mistake, and Make their Religious, allegorical Heaven afterlife sector look like a group of bungling, incompetent morons which quite frankly angers me, but it’s whatever at this point. |
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 11, 2021 17:14:41 GMT -5
To me, all of Ashfur's actions during TBC showed him for the abusive maniac he truly was all along so I think this is a matter of us two having different perceptions and perspectives of his role in that arc since most other fans could also see what he had always been like and people realize his true nature. Some of them have known for years and others are only now seeing it while there is one last group that still thinks he would have turned out fine if Squirrelflight had just chosen him instead which is completely untrue. But those hopefully few AshSquirrel shippers in the fandom are thankfully no longer in the the majority. While I'm not the biggest fan of TBC as an entire arc, I appreciate the new editing team correcting the mistake Vicky Holmes made when she gave Ashfur a place in StarClan. He did not deserve it after all the heinous things he did just because Squirrelflight "dared" to reject his advances and he "loved too much". That is incel behaviour right there. I’ve Never shipped AshSquirrel or thought they’d ever make a good pair in any way. I’m in no manner justifying or stating that Ashfur’s action are not criminal either, or what he did wasn’t wrong. I was merely shedding light on both sides of the story of how his motivations could be depicted in the scenario, was it Heartbreak and being overwrought with Grief that drove and motivated his actions? Or was he just an obsessive, manipulative predator/incel? That’s what’s been debated for over a decade, and both are plausible scenarios and motivations to lead someone to do what he did, just so happens that Victoria Holmes gave him the slightly less reprehensible option and people didn’t like it, but it wasn’t wrong or incorrect portrayal. I’ve personally have known, hung around, worked with, and associated with Both types, but I’m not gonna go into an explicit heated debate about it because that’d just get this thread locked. And whether or not he Should of gone to the Dark Forest or Starclan is a question with no definitive answer, as it’s highly relative and subjective to every individual’s personal beliefs and opinions of the afterlife how people will be judged and their iniquities will be weighed to determine their entrance into heaven or condemnation to hell, which varies drastically person to person. All TBC did in my mind regarding Ashfur, was make a bunch of outrageous changes and Narrative inconsistencies and retcons in order to rectify a mistake that wasn’t ever definitively a mistake, and Make their Religious, allegorical Heaven afterlife sector look like a group of bungling, incompetent morons which quite frankly angers me, but it’s whatever at this point. Then we will just have to agree to disagree at this point since I think Vicky Holmes letting Ashfur go to StarClan back during PoT was a big mistake on her part that led to a lot of heated discussions where some people even tried to justify his crimes and abhorrent behaviour with the fact that the narrative (Vicky at the time) put him there so he "must have not been that bad". The now infamous "he loved too much" got thrown around (and still is in some part of the fandom) as an actual excuse in those so called "Ashfur Wars" just because Victoria Holmes thought Ashfur was a misunderstood character whose crimes did not warrant the Dark Forest for some reason despite the fact that other cats have been sent there for doing less than him. |
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 11, 2021 18:29:48 GMT -5
echofallHeated discussions probably would of happened regardless of where Vicky Holmes placed him, put him in the Dark Forest, one side of the Fandom would inevitably been livid and still tried to justify his actions and abhorrent behavior and deem him unworthy of condemnation, and other side would fight tooth N claw about how he deserved it, maybe he did. And the infamous “loved to much” quote from Yellowfang to me at least is heavily misinterpreted by quite a few fans, as it seems a lot of people believe that Yellowfang swayed starclans judgement in allowing Ashfur into Starclan, but what many seem to fail to realize that is Starclan and it’s members play zero role deciding who enters Starclan or doesn’t, and that the whole trial system is something that the new team fabricated for plot purposes, even though it retcons what has been confirmed when Vicky was editor. To Quote from Omen of The Stars . Perhaps [Ashfur] did a lot to bring it on himself, perhaps not. It is not StarClan's place to judge him. If he found his way here, then he must deserve to be here. That is what we all have to believe. […] How can we say that Hollyleaf deserved to be in StarClan and Ashfur didn't, or the other way around? Things are different here. Some cats forget parts of their life that they don't want to remember. It very clearly states that Starclan doesn’t Judge/decide who’s permitted entry. And this might just be me, but it’s also a subtle hint that there is a Higher power, or Defied figure if you would that’s above Starclan, and also gives pretty accurate acknowledgment and recognition to the Christian, particularly the Adventist Principle and Teaching that “those you’d believed deserving of Heaven won’t be there, and Those you deemed unworthy will be there”, there’s also other subtle hints of a Higher planar of power then Starclan, like with the 3’s Powers and Prophecy being stated to have come from somewhere beyond Starclan out of reach, and that they where just the middleman, amongst other subtle hints that is never giving actual explicit development, or is explored beyond that, probably because by doing so would make the books far more controversial, and require them to stamp the ‘Religious’ or ‘Spiritual’ Genre onto the Series and most likely would have to be sold to an Older Audience instead of Young kids. and might possibly reduce sales idk. Anyway not attempting to spark an argument or anything, just expressing my thoughts and opinions on the whole ordeal. Take it how you like.
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Post by Rainfire on Dec 11, 2021 21:56:23 GMT -5
I love that the description for Yellowfang's mini acknowledges her and Firestar's mother/son bond <3
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Post by minnowfur on Dec 11, 2021 23:04:27 GMT -5
My favourite one is Squirrelflight.I thought Mudclaw was Tigerclaw at first lol.Ivypool looks like she needs a break from hunting and patrolling and go on vacation lol
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 12, 2021 7:29:12 GMT -5
echofall Heated discussions probably would of happened regardless of where Vicky Holmes placed him, put him in the Dark Forest, one side of the Fandom would inevitably been livid and still tried to justify his actions and abhorrent behavior and deem him unworthy of condemnation, and other side would fight tooth N claw about how he deserved it, maybe he did. And the infamous “loved to much” quote from Yellowfang to me at least is heavily misinterpreted by quite a few fans, as it seems a lot of people believe that Yellowfang swayed starclans judgement in allowing Ashfur into Starclan, but what many seem to fail to realize that is Starclan and it’s members play zero role deciding who enters Starclan or doesn’t, and that the whole trial system is something that the new team fabricated for plot purposes, even though it retcons what has been confirmed when Vicky was editor. To Quote from Omen of The Stars . Perhaps [Ashfur] did a lot to bring it on himself, perhaps not. It is not StarClan's place to judge him. If he found his way here, then he must deserve to be here. That is what we all have to believe. […] How can we say that Hollyleaf deserved to be in StarClan and Ashfur didn't, or the other way around? Things are different here. Some cats forget parts of their life that they don't want to remember. It very clearly states that Starclan doesn’t Judge/decide who’s permitted entry. And this might just be me, but it’s also a subtle hint that there is a Higher power, or Defied figure if you would that’s above Starclan, and also gives pretty accurate acknowledgment and recognition to the Christian, particularly the Adventist Principle and Teaching that “those you’d believed deserving of Heaven won’t be there, and Those you deemed unworthy will be there”, there’s also other subtle hints of a Higher planar of power then Starclan, like with the 3’s Powers and Prophecy being stated to have come from somewhere beyond Starclan out of reach, and that they where just the middleman, amongst other subtle hints that is never giving actual explicit development, or is explored beyond that, probably because by doing so would make the books far more controversial, and require them to stamp the ‘Religious’ or ‘Spiritual’ Genre onto the Series and most likely would have to be sold to an Older Audience instead of Young kids. and might possibly reduce sales idk. Anyway not attempting to spark an argument or anything, just expressing my thoughts and opinions on the whole ordeal. Take it how you like. To me, Vicky Holmes was using Yellowfang to voice her biased opinion on Ashfur during her speech to Jayfeather in the OotS arc regarding his character and the reason he was allowed in StarClan despite doing worse things than Hollyleaf and never feeling sorry for them later on like she did. It was Vicky justifying the decision and thus also using StarClan as a more ambiguous concept back then to make her point rather than this being StarClan's ultimate way to work being defined in the story. If Vicky had not placed Ashfur in StarClan during PoT and hadn't defended her choice of doing so through various means such as Yellowfang's explanation, then he would have gone to the Dark Forest instead where he belonged in the first place, definitely shown up in OotS as another DF villain along with Hawkfrost since they knew each other off-screen in canon and worked together to try and kill Firestar which both wanted for different reasons. Ivypaw/pool would have certainly come across him while she was training/later spying there and he would have probably been killed permanently in the Great Battle by either Brambleclaw, Squirrelflight, Hollyleaf or perhaps Lionblaze (who could have thus made himself more useful in the fight than just killing Shredtail in it) to wrap up that storyline and Ashfur's arc. Which would have resulted in TBC either not existing or having a completely different plot and threat to overcome than in canon. So in conclusion, if Victoria Holmes had not sent Ashfur to StarClan, TBC would not have been made in the way it ultimately was canonically. At least that is how I see it. You are, of course, free to disagree with me but it won't change my stance on this matter. |
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 12, 2021 13:23:00 GMT -5
echofall Heated discussions probably would of happened regardless of where Vicky Holmes placed him, put him in the Dark Forest, one side of the Fandom would inevitably been livid and still tried to justify his actions and abhorrent behavior and deem him unworthy of condemnation, and other side would fight tooth N claw about how he deserved it, maybe he did. And the infamous “loved to much” quote from Yellowfang to me at least is heavily misinterpreted by quite a few fans, as it seems a lot of people believe that Yellowfang swayed starclans judgement in allowing Ashfur into Starclan, but what many seem to fail to realize that is Starclan and it’s members play zero role deciding who enters Starclan or doesn’t, and that the whole trial system is something that the new team fabricated for plot purposes, even though it retcons what has been confirmed when Vicky was editor. To Quote from Omen of The Stars . Perhaps [Ashfur] did a lot to bring it on himself, perhaps not. It is not StarClan's place to judge him. If he found his way here, then he must deserve to be here. That is what we all have to believe. […] How can we say that Hollyleaf deserved to be in StarClan and Ashfur didn't, or the other way around? Things are different here. Some cats forget parts of their life that they don't want to remember. It very clearly states that Starclan doesn’t Judge/decide who’s permitted entry. And this might just be me, but it’s also a subtle hint that there is a Higher power, or Defied figure if you would that’s above Starclan, and also gives pretty accurate acknowledgment and recognition to the Christian, particularly the Adventist Principle and Teaching that “those you’d believed deserving of Heaven won’t be there, and Those you deemed unworthy will be there”, there’s also other subtle hints of a Higher planar of power then Starclan, like with the 3’s Powers and Prophecy being stated to have come from somewhere beyond Starclan out of reach, and that they where just the middleman, amongst other subtle hints that is never giving actual explicit development, or is explored beyond that, probably because by doing so would make the books far more controversial, and require them to stamp the ‘Religious’ or ‘Spiritual’ Genre onto the Series and most likely would have to be sold to an Older Audience instead of Young kids. and might possibly reduce sales idk. Anyway not attempting to spark an argument or anything, just expressing my thoughts and opinions on the whole ordeal. Take it how you like. To me, Vicky Holmes was using Yellowfang to voice her biased opinion on Ashfur during her speech to Jayfeather in the OotS arc regarding his character and the reason he was allowed in StarClan despite doing worse things than Hollyleaf and never feeling sorry for them later on like she did. It was Vicky justifying the decision and thus also using StarClan as a more ambiguous concept back then to make her point rather than this being StarClan's ultimate way to work being defined in the story. If Vicky had not placed Ashfur in StarClan during PoT and hadn't defended her choice of doing so through various means such as Yellowfang's explanation, then he would have gone to the Dark Forest instead where he belonged in the first place, definitely shown up in OotS as another DF villain along with Hawkfrost since they knew each other off-screen in canon and worked together to try and kill Firestar which both wanted for different reasons. Ivypaw/pool would have certainly come across him while she was training/later spying there and he would have probably been killed permanently in the Great Battle by either Brambleclaw, Squirrelflight, Hollyleaf or perhaps Lionblaze (who could have thus made himself more useful in the fight than just killing Shredtail in it) to wrap up that storyline and Ashfur's arc. Which would have resulted in TBC either not existing or having a completely different plot and threat to overcome than in canon. So in conclusion, if Victoria Holmes had not sent Ashfur to StarClan, TBC would not have been made in the way it ultimately was canonically. At least that is how I see it. You are, of course, free to disagree with me but it won't change my stance on this matter. I guess we’ll have to Agree to Disagree. Starclan has always been ambiguous and never been fully explained, cause like i said that would be to controversial for a Children’s series. But there are hints to a higher power, and it’s been confirmed that Starclan members don’t play a role in deciding the fate of a cats spirit when they die, and that there’s some kind omnipotent power or Deified entity that’s never mentioned on screen, since again wouldn’t be suitable/accepted by a large portion of the audience. Vicky has confirmed that the idea for Starclan was inspired by Christian/biblical teachings on the afterlife etc, and Vicky and Cherith have confirmed to be Christian’s themselves, and have obviously imbued the series with their own personal religious flare, though very vaguely and indirect in order to not dissuade members from other cultures with different beliefs from buying them, from sounding too preachy or whatever. The whole stupid Trial system in SqH was pretty blatantly created just to make Ashfur’s story arc minutely feasible in TBC, since i think it’s pretty clear the creative team are quite feverishly grasping at straws and inspiration from basically any genre in order to put books on the shelf for sales, and while TBC definitely has some top-notch moments, their potency and poignancy are severely dampened by bad exposition and poor narrative quality. And while they still sell, it’s pretty clear just observing the amount of fandom activity there is nowadays on numerous websites heing dramatically less then back in 2010, that their time of glory in the spotlight has long passed. |
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 12, 2021 13:42:01 GMT -5
To me, Vicky Holmes was using Yellowfang to voice her biased opinion on Ashfur during her speech to Jayfeather in the OotS arc regarding his character and the reason he was allowed in StarClan despite doing worse things than Hollyleaf and never feeling sorry for them later on like she did. It was Vicky justifying the decision and thus also using StarClan as a more ambiguous concept back then to make her point rather than this being StarClan's ultimate way to work being defined in the story. If Vicky had not placed Ashfur in StarClan during PoT and hadn't defended her choice of doing so through various means such as Yellowfang's explanation, then he would have gone to the Dark Forest instead where he belonged in the first place, definitely shown up in OotS as another DF villain along with Hawkfrost since they knew each other off-screen in canon and worked together to try and kill Firestar which both wanted for different reasons. Ivypaw/pool would have certainly come across him while she was training/later spying there and he would have probably been killed permanently in the Great Battle by either Brambleclaw, Squirrelflight, Hollyleaf or perhaps Lionblaze (who could have thus made himself more useful in the fight than just killing Shredtail in it) to wrap up that storyline and Ashfur's arc. Which would have resulted in TBC either not existing or having a completely different plot and threat to overcome than in canon. So in conclusion, if Victoria Holmes had not sent Ashfur to StarClan, TBC would not have been made in the way it ultimately was canonically. At least that is how I see it. You are, of course, free to disagree with me but it won't change my stance on this matter. I guess we’ll have to Agree to Disagree. Starclan has always been ambiguous and never been fully explained, cause like i said that would be to controversial for a Children’s series. But there are hints to a higher power, and it’s been confirmed that Starclan members don’t play a role in deciding the fate of a cats spirit when they die, and that there’s some kind omnipotent power or Deified entity that’s never mentioned on screen, since again wouldn’t be suitable/accepted by a large portion of the audience. Vicky has confirmed that the idea for Starclan was inspired by Christian/biblical teachings on the afterlife etc, and Vicky and Cherith have confirmed to be Christian’s themselves, and have obviously imbued the series with their own personal religious flare, though very vaguely and indirect in order to not dissuade members from other cultures with different beliefs from buying them, from sounding too preachy or whatever. The whole stupid Trial system in SqH was pretty blatantly created just to make Ashfur’s story arc minutely feasible in TBC, since i think it’s pretty clear the creative team are quite feverishly grasping at straws and inspiration from basically any genre in order to put books on the shelf for sales, and while TBC definitely has some top-notch moments, their potency and poignancy are severely dampened by bad exposition and poor narrative quality. And while they still sell, it’s pretty clear just observing the amount of fandom activity there is nowadays on numerous websites heing dramatically less then back in 2010, that their time of glory in the spotlight has long passed. Agree to disagree it is then. That is fine by me. But I do also think that the Warriors series has been going on for a long time and sometimes feels like a different story just with the same characters ever since OotS when Firestar died. Which was when I originally took my first and only break from the fandom since I'm still curious like a kid to find out if and how they will ever end these childhood comfort books of mine. There is no way I'm going to leave again now until it's all really over. |
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 12, 2021 13:53:23 GMT -5
I guess we’ll have to Agree to Disagree. Starclan has always been ambiguous and never been fully explained, cause like i said that would be to controversial for a Children’s series. But there are hints to a higher power, and it’s been confirmed that Starclan members don’t play a role in deciding the fate of a cats spirit when they die, and that there’s some kind omnipotent power or Deified entity that’s never mentioned on screen, since again wouldn’t be suitable/accepted by a large portion of the audience. Vicky has confirmed that the idea for Starclan was inspired by Christian/biblical teachings on the afterlife etc, and Vicky and Cherith have confirmed to be Christian’s themselves, and have obviously imbued the series with their own personal religious flare, though very vaguely and indirect in order to not dissuade members from other cultures with different beliefs from buying them, from sounding too preachy or whatever. The whole stupid Trial system in SqH was pretty blatantly created just to make Ashfur’s story arc minutely feasible in TBC, since i think it’s pretty clear the creative team are quite feverishly grasping at straws and inspiration from basically any genre in order to put books on the shelf for sales, and while TBC definitely has some top-notch moments, their potency and poignancy are severely dampened by bad exposition and poor narrative quality. And while they still sell, it’s pretty clear just observing the amount of fandom activity there is nowadays on numerous websites heing dramatically less then back in 2010, that their time of glory in the spotlight has long passed. Agree to disagree it is then. That is fine by me. But I do also think that the Warriors series has been going on for a long time and sometimes feels like a different story just with the same characters ever since OotS when Firestar died. Which was when I originally took my first and only break from the fandom since I'm still curious like a kid to find out if and how they will ever end these childhood comfort books of mine. There is no way I'm going to leave again now until it's all really over. oh for sure. They seriously need to come out and just openly state it’s a spin-off, cause their clearly not even trying to stay true to the original material. And yeah curiosity killed the cat hehe, I mostly keep reading just to see what absurdity they’ll spin next, and for the laughs that come with it. I’ll stick around until Cherith Baldry retires , which given that’s she’s 74 now might not be that far away. |
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 12, 2021 14:26:34 GMT -5
Agree to disagree it is then. That is fine by me. But I do also think that the Warriors series has been going on for a long time and sometimes feels like a different story just with the same characters ever since OotS when Firestar died. Which was when I originally took my first and only break from the fandom since I'm still curious like a kid to find out if and how they will ever end these childhood comfort books of mine. There is no way I'm going to leave again now until it's all really over. oh for sure. They seriously need to come out and just openly state it’s a spin-off, cause their clearly not even trying to stay true to the original material. And yeah curiosity killed the cat hehe, I mostly keep reading just to see what absurdity they’ll spin next, and for the laughs that come with it. I’ll stick around until Cherith Baldry retires , which given that’s she’s 74 now might not be that far away. I'm willing to accept things are different now then they were back when Firestar (my favorite character) was still alive even if he was only in the background during TNP, PoT and OotS (but not really). I adore him as a StarClan cat too but he just feels more like (much appreciated by me) fanservice at times now. Hopefully ASC will prove to be better and not have as much focus on older characters who already had their time to shine like TBC (and even AVoS) did. I was not aware that Cherith Baldry is already that far advanced in her age. But I will be invested in these battle cat books until they completely end it on a good note. Which, given that this series is continuing to make money and gains new readers every year, might take more time than expected. After ending my break last year and jumping back into reading these books, I first heard about TBC and was thus very surprised to learn this series was ongoing. For some reason, I previously thought DotC (the prequel arc for Clan history) was supposed to be one last homage to sort of bring Rusty/Firestar first discovering the Clans all the way back in TPB full circle but nope. Imagine my astonishment when discovering it's going strong to this day and had a brand new villain in AVoS and a possession plot in TBC. |
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