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Post by Chicken on Sept 4, 2021 20:05:38 GMT -5
I want to see a cat who wants to be a medicine cat, but for some reason, they're not allowed to. We've had millions of cats who are forced to be medicine cats, and who can't be warriors, but we've never seen a cat not be allowed to be a medicine cat (that I remember)
What would you like to see in this series?
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Sept 4, 2021 20:20:52 GMT -5
i wish this would happen some time too. a reveral of the usual plot is always welcomed to me.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 4, 2021 21:14:10 GMT -5
This actually should happen way more often given there's only one medicine cat at a time in each Clan (Leafpool's extenuating circumstance excluded). Statistically, way more kits should be booted out of the medicine den than booted in.
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Omnisexual
Fernflower
I forgot how amazing Firestar is
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Post by Fernflower on Sept 4, 2021 21:23:13 GMT -5
This actually should happen way more often given there's only one medicine cat at a time in each Clan (Leafpool's extenuating circumstance excluded). Statistically, way more kits should be booted out of the medicine den than booted in. I've always thought about that too. Like no other kit wants to become a medicine cat until they're low and they need more? I'd think that being a medicine cat would be very appealing to a kit, especially when there's only two career paths.
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Post by Rainsplash on Sept 4, 2021 23:14:45 GMT -5
Oh yeah, like one kit, Onekit, wants to be a medicine cat but the second kit, Twokit, who's older than Onekit, wants to become a medicine cat too so Twokit takes up the job and Onekit being unable to become medicine cat apprentice.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Sept 4, 2021 23:37:27 GMT -5
didnt this kinda happen with Hollyleaf? She wanted to be a medicine cat apprentice, and then realized she was absolutely crap at all the skills necessary. So she gave it up.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 5, 2021 0:04:08 GMT -5
didnt this kinda happen with Hollyleaf? She wanted to be a medicine cat apprentice, and then realized she was absolutely crap at all the skills necessary. So she gave it up. That's not what Chicken's talking about (at least that I can tell). Hollypaw both wanted and was allowed to become a medicine cat apprentice. She just sucked at it, so she switched paths. This thread is talking about a kit who wants to be a medicine cat, but someone (Leader or existing MC, most likely-- or a parent) won't allow them to. The closest we've ever had in the series is actually Jaypaw-- it's not the same, because he didn't want to be MC, but Leafpool wanted him to. But she wasn't allowed to take him as an apprentice while she had Hollypaw, hence the drama around them switching. EDIT: not the closest we've ever had, actually. Mothwing also exists, as I posted below, lol
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Post by rookheart on Sept 5, 2021 0:26:18 GMT -5
didnt this kinda happen with Hollyleaf? She wanted to be a medicine cat apprentice, and then realized she was absolutely crap at all the skills necessary. So she gave it up. That's not what Chicken's talking about (at least that I can tell). Hollypaw both wanted and was allowed to become a medicine cat apprentice. She just sucked at it, so she switched paths. This thread is talking about a kit who wants to be a medicine cat, but someone (Leader or existing MC, most likely-- or a parent) won't allow them to. The closest we've ever had in the series is actually Jaypaw-- it's not the same, because he didn't want to be MC, but Leafpool wanted him to. But she wasn't allowed to take him as an apprentice while she had Hollypaw, hence the drama around them switching. Local Hollyleaf stan coming in with a slight correction! Hollypaw didn't change her career path because she was bad at being a medicine cat, but because she enjoyed being a warrior, and also hated handling medical stuff like blood and other bodily fluids. Of course, not being good at it was part of it, but the other factors are important too. -- I think it would be very interesting to have cats barred from being medics for petty reasons. I really never liked the forced medicine cat trope, especially with how it reeks of ableism and also just straight up defiles the position? I want more cats like Hollypaw wanting it for the prestige and respect. I miss when they were highly respected, now it just feels like a job for cats the clans think are useless otherwise. It would be very interesting to have a former kittypet or even half clan cat being barred from it despite desperately wanting to train as one because the clans don't want anything but noble clanborn cats on StarClan's holy grounds, or some sort of perceived preconception of them not being able to heal. Maybe suspicion that they might be poisoned, or too dumb to be a medic. Or even maybe in A Starless Clan, they distrust a StarClan fanatic, or straight up just don't want to be around this cat.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 5, 2021 1:03:11 GMT -5
That's not what Chicken's talking about (at least that I can tell). Hollypaw both wanted and was allowed to become a medicine cat apprentice. She just sucked at it, so she switched paths. This thread is talking about a kit who wants to be a medicine cat, but someone (Leader or existing MC, most likely-- or a parent) won't allow them to. The closest we've ever had in the series is actually Jaypaw-- it's not the same, because he didn't want to be MC, but Leafpool wanted him to. But she wasn't allowed to take him as an apprentice while she had Hollypaw, hence the drama around them switching. Local Hollyleaf stan coming in with a slight correction! Hollypaw didn't change her career path because she was bad at being a medicine cat, but because she enjoyed being a warrior, and also hated handling medical stuff like blood and other bodily fluids. Of course, not being good at it was part of it, but the other factors are important too. Nah, it was because she sucked at it. The Sight hammers in over and over again that Hollypaw can't remember herbs, doesn't interact well with her patients (being too scared of hurting them), and is constantly being one-upped by Jaypaw. If anything, her enjoyment of warrior training was the afterthought, not the sucking at medicine. Clearly her desire to train as a warrior for its own merits are indeed a factor, but calling it the primary reason is inaccurate when she doesn't bring up that reason to either Leafpool or Firestar when making her official statements. In the first she doesn't bring up her enjoyment at all, instead saying it'll be better for the Clan if she's not doing something she's bad at. In the second one it's Firestar who brings it up, not her, and even that is iffy. The whole "I like warrior training" is an afterthought when compared to "boy, I suck at this medicine thing", both internally and narratively.
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Post by rookheart on Sept 5, 2021 1:07:44 GMT -5
Local Hollyleaf stan coming in with a slight correction! Hollypaw didn't change her career path because she was bad at being a medicine cat, but because she enjoyed being a warrior, and also hated handling medical stuff like blood and other bodily fluids. Of course, not being good at it was part of it, but the other factors are important too. Nah, it was because she sucked at it. The Sight hammers in over and over again that Hollypaw can't remember herbs, doesn't interact well with her patients (being too scared of hurting them), and is constantly being one-upped by Jaypaw. If anything, her enjoyment of warrior training was the afterthought, not the sucking at medicine. Clearly her desire to train as a warrior for its own merits are indeed a factor, but calling it the primary reason is inaccurate when she doesn't bring up that reason to either Leafpool or Firestar when making her official statements. In the first she doesn't bring up her enjoyment at all, instead saying it'll be better for the Clan if she's not doing something she's bad at. In the second one it's Firestar who brings it up, not her, and even that is iffy. The whole "I like warrior training" is an afterthought when compared to "boy, I suck at this medicine thing", both internally and narratively. While that's a totally valid opinion, I think it's normal to enjoy something you're successful at more than something that you're not successful at. But it's important to remember Hollypaw was kind of disturbed by everything medical, and only wanted to be a medicine cat for the prestige.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 5, 2021 1:14:23 GMT -5
Nah, it was because she sucked at it. The Sight hammers in over and over again that Hollypaw can't remember herbs, doesn't interact well with her patients (being too scared of hurting them), and is constantly being one-upped by Jaypaw. If anything, her enjoyment of warrior training was the afterthought, not the sucking at medicine. Clearly her desire to train as a warrior for its own merits are indeed a factor, but calling it the primary reason is inaccurate when she doesn't bring up that reason to either Leafpool or Firestar when making her official statements. In the first she doesn't bring up her enjoyment at all, instead saying it'll be better for the Clan if she's not doing something she's bad at. In the second one it's Firestar who brings it up, not her, and even that is iffy. The whole "I like warrior training" is an afterthought when compared to "boy, I suck at this medicine thing", both internally and narratively. While that's a totally valid opinion, I think it's normal to enjoy something you're successful at more than something that you're not successful at. But it's important to remember Hollypaw was kind of disturbed by everything medical, and only wanted to be a medicine cat for the prestige. I... don't understand how any of that has to do with the point I was making? I wasn't stating an opinion, I was pointing out that her enjoyment of warrior training was not the primary reason for her switch. Of course it's normal to enjoy success more than failure, but that isn't related to whether said failure makes you want to quit doing the activity or not. As for her being disturbed by medical procedure, why is that important to remember? Whether she hated medicine or not, she was still bad at it, and her being bad at it was her stated reason to her mentor and leader for switching. Sorry if it seems like I'm antagonizing you, by the way. I'm really trying not to, I just genuinely don't understand what point you're trying to make.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 5, 2021 1:51:58 GMT -5
LOL throughout this entire freaking thread I totally forgot that Mothwing existed, RIP. She's exactly what you're looking for, Chicken! Actually wanted to be a medicine cat but everyone was like "ew, no, you're not Clanborn!" But she ended up getting the position due to some *cough* brotherly interference, so it worked out.
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#FF55A3
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Apricity
Bravelands is too slept on.
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Post by Apricity on Sept 5, 2021 5:19:00 GMT -5
didnt this happen in original canon with spottedleaf in bp for a while? she couldnt bc goosefeather wouldnt retire or w/e it was I was thinking that too. I believe I remember her mentor having to pull her away from the medicine den to train. There was also Frecklepaw in SkyClan's Destiny who Leafstar didn't want to allow to be Echosong's apprentice at first because she was one of the daylight warriors.
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Post by Chicken on Sept 5, 2021 15:51:03 GMT -5
Skypaw13I can't believe I forgot about Mothwing! I talk about her all the time, and how she's the face of RiverClam too lol. ApricityI can't believe I forgot about Frecklewish too! I had actually thought about her recently too, when I made that best non pov medicine cat poll or whatever, also, SkyClan's Destiny is my favorite Warriors book, I should have remembered lol.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Sept 5, 2021 17:37:20 GMT -5
Hollyleaf did want the meddie cat position for the prestige but she sucked at it. It's stated very clearly in The Sight.
And yeah, that would be a super interesting concept! I wonder how the rejected cat might take it too- would they just sulk but eventually get over it? Or would they plan revenge against the medicine cat/leader? Or would they try to become medicine cat in an especially sneaky way, like by murdering the current meddie cat?
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Non-binary
#F4B548
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Dark Sun
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Post by Dark Sun on Sept 8, 2021 5:38:02 GMT -5
More LGBTQ+ representation! My mind immediately went to many gay ships that I've heard people claim to be their own personal headcanon, but then I realized that there happened to be no polyamory relationships among them. Obviously any positive LGBTQ+ representation would be great, and all of them would be equal, but maybe it's just me, but polyamory relationships are seldom talked about in the fandom, even when compared to gay ships, for example. I would love and scream with joy if two toms or two she-cats got together as any person would, but as an extension to that sort of, imagine a plot where, say, three cats get together! If drama had to be involved, maybe two of them were already close to becoming a couple and the other was on the sidelines with an envious and torn heart - they would love that those two cats were happy with each other, but they would give anything to have both of them sleeping with them in their nest.
But yeah, honestly I would love it if at least a quarter or a third (at the very least) of warriors were canonically LGBTQ+, and represented correctly. The more, the better!
On a related side note, we need more single cats! Not every cat needs to find or needs to be interested in having a mate and/or kits!
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Non-binary
#F4B548
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Dark Sun
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Post by Dark Sun on Sept 8, 2021 5:51:19 GMT -5
Hollyleaf did want the meddie cat position for the prestige but she sucked at it. It's stated very clearly in The Sight.And yeah, that would be a super interesting concept! I wonder how the rejected cat might take it too- would they just sulk but eventually get over it? Or would they plan revenge against the medicine cat/leader? Or would they try to become medicine cat in an especially sneaky way, like by murdering the current meddie cat? That would be a terrible idea because then the Clan would be left without a medicine cat. Haha. (Not saying you're idea is horrible, but that would be very poor decision making on their own end. ) Oh, oh, how about this? A kittypet/rogue/loner joins one of the Clans, perhaps at a young age, and is quickly fascinated by the position that a medicine cat has. They quickly announce their desire to train to be one, but the entire Clan is in heavy disagreement, declaring that they don't want "dirty outsider filth, poisoning the sacred position". They are completely denied an opportunity from pursuing their aspiration, and continuously receive ridicule and xenophobic bullying from the rest of their Clan due to their heritage, but something drives them to stay instead of fleeing back into the forest away from the Clans once more. Scenario 1: They receive secret medicine cat training... somehow... and their current medicine cat dies due to circumstances. This cat is the only cat who can replace them, and they must prove themselves worthy of that right. Scenario 2: Similarly, they receive medicine cat training... somehow... and another Clan's medicine cat perishes, and they have no cat to replace them. Tired of their adopted Clan's nonsense, they leave and join the weakened Clan and eventually becomes their medicine cat. Just some spitballing. They're probably terrible plot ideas though. But yes, we do need to see more instances of cats being denied this path, pure Clan cat or not, and many of them should have to live with this rejection.
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Non-binary
#F4B548
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Post by Dark Sun on Sept 8, 2021 5:57:17 GMT -5
Oh, one more thing to add to this list! We need to see more cats rejecting their destinies. Even if the cats in question knew they were "needed" to save the Clans, for instance (using that as an extreme example), it would be cool if some were like, "Nope, not interested. I want to live my own life guided by my own paws." Other examples could include cats who were destined to become leader one day, and they just turned a blind eye to it, wanting to live their life as a normal warrior.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 8, 2021 6:41:06 GMT -5
This actually should happen way more often given there's only one medicine cat at a time in each Clan (Leafpool's extenuating circumstance excluded). Statistically, way more kits should be booted out of the medicine den than booted in. While that's true, we also need to acknowledge that it's not going to be a popular job by virtue of the way that their culture is structured. They glorify fighting and physical activity, and that's what most kits dream of doing because it's what is considered the highest honor. Being a medicine cat works if you want prestige and power, but the majority of cats aren't as ambitious as Hollyleaf and so as far as they're concerned, being a medicine cat just consists of a lot of incomprehensible herb lore and not being able to win honors by fighting and hunting. While it's true there should probably be a few more who want to be a med cat than the series shows by law of averages, it also isn't surprising that it's rare for one to do so.
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Non-binary
#F4B548
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Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
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Post by Dark Sun on Sept 8, 2021 6:54:56 GMT -5
This actually should happen way more often given there's only one medicine cat at a time in each Clan (Leafpool's extenuating circumstance excluded). Statistically, way more kits should be booted out of the medicine den than booted in. While that's true, we also need to acknowledge that it's not going to be a popular job by virtue of the way that their culture is structured. They glorify fighting and physical activity, and that's what most kits dream of doing because it's what is considered the highest honor. Being a medicine cat works if you want prestige and power, but the majority of cats aren't as ambitious as Hollyleaf and so as far as they're concerned, being a medicine cat just consists of a lot of incomprehensible herb lore and not being able to win honors by fighting and hunting. While it's true there should probably be a few more who want to be a med cat than the series shows by law of averages, it also isn't surprising that it's rare for one to do so. Excellent points. This is why, imo, we need an overwhelming majority of examples of young cats who became medicine cats because they had no other choice, perhaps due to injury (either that, or they had the choice of becoming an elder) to really hammer this nail in. We also need more examples of cats who was "destined" to become medicine cats but scoff at the idea and choose to follow the path of a warrior instead. What do you think? AFAIK, even though I'm not caught up, the role of medicine cat isn't as respected as it used to be. Perhaps we should see some examples of warriors calling them "weak" or something along those lines, if this doesn't happen already?
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 8, 2021 7:13:28 GMT -5
While that's true, we also need to acknowledge that it's not going to be a popular job by virtue of the way that their culture is structured. They glorify fighting and physical activity, and that's what most kits dream of doing because it's what is considered the highest honor. Being a medicine cat works if you want prestige and power, but the majority of cats aren't as ambitious as Hollyleaf and so as far as they're concerned, being a medicine cat just consists of a lot of incomprehensible herb lore and not being able to win honors by fighting and hunting. While it's true there should probably be a few more who want to be a med cat than the series shows by law of averages, it also isn't surprising that it's rare for one to do so. Excellent points. This is why, imo, we need an overwhelming majority of examples of young cats who became medicine cats because they had no other choice, perhaps due to injury (either that, or they had the choice of becoming an elder) to really hammer this nail in. We also need more examples of cats who was "destined" to become medicine cats but scoff at the idea and choose to follow the path of a warrior instead. What do you think? AFAIK, even though I'm not caught up, the role of medicine cat isn't as respected as it used to be. Perhaps we should see some examples of warriors calling them "weak" or something along those lines, if this doesn't happen already? I think we have more than enough of the former, but the latter would be interesting. Jayfeather attempted this but ultimately was forced into it, but it'd be nice to see a character akin to Jayfeather who sticks to their guns and decides that they want to win honors on the field rather than a relatively peaceable job. While I don't think I've heard a medicine cat called weak, there is a kind of subtle disdain I felt with regards to Shadowsight and Alderheart from the clan. It wasn't really in your face and they were still proud of their achievements, but there was sort of a feeling of it being a secondbest thing. At least that's the vibe I remember.
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
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Post by Dark Sun on Sept 8, 2021 7:37:53 GMT -5
Excellent points. This is why, imo, we need an overwhelming majority of examples of young cats who became medicine cats because they had no other choice, perhaps due to injury (either that, or they had the choice of becoming an elder) to really hammer this nail in. We also need more examples of cats who was "destined" to become medicine cats but scoff at the idea and choose to follow the path of a warrior instead. What do you think? AFAIK, even though I'm not caught up, the role of medicine cat isn't as respected as it used to be. Perhaps we should see some examples of warriors calling them "weak" or something along those lines, if this doesn't happen already? I think we have more than enough of the former, but the latter would be interesting. Jayfeather attempted this but ultimately was forced into it, but it'd be nice to see a character akin to Jayfeather who sticks to their guns and decides that they want to win honors on the field rather than a relatively peaceable job. While I don't think I've heard a medicine cat called weak, there is a kind of subtle disdain I felt with regards to Shadowsight and Alderheart from the clan. It wasn't really in your face and they were still proud of their achievements, but there was sort of a feeling of it being a secondbest thing. At least that's the vibe I remember. Now I really want to see a warrior going off on a rant to a medicine cat that they would never know what real honor was like given they lived what [the warrior] would call a "cowardly second class life". Or perhaps for one of the Clan's cultures to fall low enough to the point where the position of medicine cat was often ridiculed and disrespected by the vast majority of cats. Maybe even a mother or father calling their kit a "disgrace" for wanting to follow such a path. *Insert thinking emoji here*
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Post by Chicken on Sept 8, 2021 10:07:17 GMT -5
Oh, one more thing to add to this list! We need to see more cats rejecting their destinies. Even if the cats in question knew they were "needed" to save the Clans, for instance (using that as an extreme example), it would be cool if some were like, "Nope, not interested. I want to live my own life guided by my own paws." Other examples could include cats who were destined to become leader one day, and they just turned a blind eye to it, wanting to live their life as a normal warrior. We sort of had this with Lionblaze, when he was willing to throw away the WHOLE prophecy for ONE cat, and he even let Ratscar or someone beat him in a border dispute.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Sept 8, 2021 11:30:20 GMT -5
This would be a cool idea! I'd love to see it in a story
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 8, 2021 17:40:20 GMT -5
This actually should happen way more often given there's only one medicine cat at a time in each Clan (Leafpool's extenuating circumstance excluded). Statistically, way more kits should be booted out of the medicine den than booted in. While that's true, we also need to acknowledge that it's not going to be a popular job by virtue of the way that their culture is structured. They glorify fighting and physical activity, and that's what most kits dream of doing because it's what is considered the highest honor. Being a medicine cat works if you want prestige and power, but the majority of cats aren't as ambitious as Hollyleaf and so as far as they're concerned, being a medicine cat just consists of a lot of incomprehensible herb lore and not being able to win honors by fighting and hunting. While it's true there should probably be a few more who want to be a med cat than the series shows by law of averages, it also isn't surprising that it's rare for one to do so. Oh, definitely. I'm not saying kits' desired pathways should be split 50/50, just that a kit wanting to be a medicine cat should come a bit more often than once every 2-3 generations. I honestly don't think kits like Hollykit (who want power and prestige) should be as rare as they are. Uncommon, yes, but not one-of-a-kind.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Sept 9, 2021 6:25:51 GMT -5
I want to see Frostpaw as a villain and that's it.
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