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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 2, 2021 22:52:41 GMT -5
Stop me if you've heard this story before.
A character suddenly gains prominence in the plot and gains a personality by doing so, and they promptly earn the ire of the fandom. A howl of "they were ruined!" rises up with the only evidence being a couple of vague sentences from before they were a main character and which show very little defined personality.
Which of these characters who is commonly labeled as "ruined" do you find was in fact the least ruined? Or heck, even improved?
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Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 2, 2021 23:26:40 GMT -5
Ashfur for freaking sure. Dude had all of about four lines prior to Starlight, so I genuinely don't understand how people are like "but he was so sweet before the second half of TNP!" No, he wasn't. He was nothing before the second half of TNP.
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Post by Chicken on Aug 2, 2021 23:44:42 GMT -5
Breezepelt probably. I've seen people say they wish he'd gone full villain, or they wish he'd die. However, he's the first semi-bad guy who didn't die as a redemption or something, which I think is pretty cool. I don't mind at all that he didn't become a full villain or that he didn't die, and I don't think his redemption ruined him, but from what I've seen, I'm in the minority here.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Aug 3, 2021 5:04:46 GMT -5
Bumblestripe. Sure, I don't like him now, but he had almost zero personality before associating himself with Dovewing. If it wasn't for her, he'd probably have never gained characterization.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Aug 3, 2021 6:31:30 GMT -5
Ashfur, like Skypaw13 said. His character wasn't ruined, as he had barely characterization before his drama with Squirrelflight started and he wasn't choosen at random to be in the love triangle. In fact, it was a good idea to put him instead of someone else as he was friends with Brambleclaw and respected him. What would have been weird is to put as the second love interest someone like Thornclaw or Spiderleg.
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 3, 2021 7:56:00 GMT -5
Breezepelt probably. I've seen people say they wish he'd gone full villain, or they wish he'd die. However, he's the first semi-bad guy who didn't die as a redemption or something, which I think is pretty cool. I don't mind at all that he didn't become a full villain or that he didn't die, and I don't think his redemption ruined him, but from what I've seen, I'm in the minority here. You know what, I didn't think of Breezepelt at all since I was thinking mainly of characters who were minor being elevated to major status while Breezepelt was always a little bit major. That being said, yeah, I have heard ruination claims a few times with him.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Currently sick with the flu...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Aug 3, 2021 8:09:42 GMT -5
I have to agree with those that have already named Ashfur.
Although he was not ruined for me when going from background warrior to jilted lover but rather upon him entering StarClan despite previously being involved in a murderous plot to kill his own leader and also trying to burn four cats alive and it all getting explained away both in the narrative and by one of the authors with "he just loved too much".
As the impostor, Ashfur is finally treated like the villain he was all along and who will get punished for it accordingly while also having made a name for himself as the ultimate incel.
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 3, 2021 9:10:24 GMT -5
Breezepelt probably. I've seen people say they wish he'd gone full villain, or they wish he'd die. However, he's the first semi-bad guy who didn't die as a redemption or something, which I think is pretty cool. I don't mind at all that he didn't become a full villain or that he didn't die, and I don't think his redemption ruined him, but from what I've seen, I'm in the minority here. You know what, I didn't think of Breezepelt at all since I was thinking mainly of characters who were minor being elevated to major status while Breezepelt was always a little bit major. That being said, yeah, I have heard ruination claims a few times with him. Breezepelt was never ruined in my opinion. He literally just mended the relationships that had driven his anger in the first place. This happens alot more often than people would think. Just because Breezepelt doesn’t want Crowfeather or his half-siblings dead, doesn’t mean he doesn’t still have the personality that makes him who he is. People can be mad that he didn’t suffer some horrendous fate or that he was done being angry with his father, but his character was never ruined at all. If anything, I honestly think it was made better. He’s still snappy and harsh and blunt, but he’s also shown to have grown alot due to fatherhood and he was very civil and even compassionate to Daisy in her novella. People are afraid of genuine growth of a character.
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Post by Chicken on Aug 3, 2021 13:08:59 GMT -5
Breezepelt probably. I've seen people say they wish he'd gone full villain, or they wish he'd die. However, he's the first semi-bad guy who didn't die as a redemption or something, which I think is pretty cool. I don't mind at all that he didn't become a full villain or that he didn't die, and I don't think his redemption ruined him, but from what I've seen, I'm in the minority here. You know what, I didn't think of Breezepelt at all since I was thinking mainly of characters who were minor being elevated to major status while Breezepelt was always a little bit major. That being said, yeah, I have heard ruination claims a few times with him. Oh, that makes sense, I didn't name any of the usual suspects, because I'm usually the one complaining about Berrynose and to a little bit Bumblestripe, though I never felt Bumblestripe was ever that bad. Ashfur on the other hand, I don't care enough about him to have an opinion.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 3, 2021 13:15:17 GMT -5
Mapleshade. She certainly has a right to have a grudge against ThunderClan.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Aug 3, 2021 18:19:41 GMT -5
Hollyleaf. I don't think she was ruined by not having power, but not having one made her story far more interesting to read about and showed great insight into her character. (Although I do think her coming back only to die a book later was kind of pointless.)
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Post by cygna on Aug 3, 2021 18:34:54 GMT -5
Thornclaw. He's right that TC is nepotistic.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Aug 3, 2021 20:40:07 GMT -5
Ashfur.
What would he have been outside of his plot? Less interesting Dustpelt 2.0? Never focused on background character? He didn't have much of a character and now he's an awesome villain
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Aromantic
raptor
Currently re-reading: Night Whispers
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Post by raptor on Aug 4, 2021 19:31:30 GMT -5
Onestar comes to mind. His transition to being a rival to ThunderClan makes sense given his situation and makes his character a lot more interesting over the friendly but kinda bland Onewhisker.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 5, 2021 22:08:22 GMT -5
Agree on Breezepelt. He wasn't ruined, he was a stupid asshat kid from a shitty family life that fell in with an awful crowd that targeted him and promised him to "make things right". Then he was offered a second chance and managed to work with it. We already know from The Forgotten Warrior that he's not all about poison and vengeance, even if he has pursued it over several lines. He has loyalty to the Dark Forest to an extent and is willing to go behind his clan's back to help them rise to power and right what he views as the wrongs that have been ruining his life, but remember his reaction to Ivypool killing Antpelt a second time? Ivypool tells him that she did it in service of the Dark Forest and that Antpelt's loyalty "wasn't as great as hers", and Breezepelt's immediate response is to flip up TWO middle fingers at her and say that whatever bullshit she might spew about loyalty, she's dead to him. He genuinely has a sense of loyalty and goodness in him that doesn't manifest often because he's too busy being bitter and hopeless. It doesn't EXCUSE what he did, not by a long shot, but it sure as hell gives a reason to believe he can be more than just evil, and he proceeded to prove that when given a chance. He sure isn't entitled to forgiveness from the people he's hurt, and Jayfeather makes it perfectly clear that forgiveness is never coming from him. But RUINED? Nah, Breezepelt was not ruined.
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