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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jul 29, 2021 13:33:31 GMT -5
Dark Forest, or a wandering Ghost, cause I'd rather not deal with StarClan's crap tbh. But as a StarClan cat you would still be able to ignore the crappy cats and the ones who give prophecies. You would be left alone and never participate in their bussiness, unless you're a former protagonist or involved with the prophecied cat. 95% of StarClan is not involved with them.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 30, 2021 2:39:38 GMT -5
Dark Forest, or a wandering Ghost, cause I'd rather not deal with StarClan's crap tbh. But as a StarClan cat you would still be able to ignore the crappy cats and the ones who give prophecies. You would be left alone and never participate in their bussiness, unless you're a former protagonist or involved with the prophecied cat. 95% of StarClan is not involved with them. So you mean ones that give vague prophecies that not even they themselves understand lol? I'd rather do whatever I'd like as a wandering ghost, or cause trouble in the DF for kicks, than have to deal with the hollier than thou bs that StarClan tries to shove down other people's throats constantly. If it were TNP StarClan, sure, but onward, no thanks.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 30, 2021 8:31:11 GMT -5
But as a StarClan cat you would still be able to ignore the crappy cats and the ones who give prophecies. You would be left alone and never participate in their bussiness, unless you're a former protagonist or involved with the prophecied cat. 95% of StarClan is not involved with them. So you mean ones that give vague prophecies that not even they themselves understand lol? I'd rather do whatever I'd like as a wandering ghost, or cause trouble in the DF for kicks, than have to deal with the hollier than thou bs that StarClan tries to shove down other people's throats constantly. If it were TNP StarClan, sure, but onward, no thanks. Exactly what kind of kicks are there to be had in the Dark Forest when causing trouble is liable to get a serial killer running you down and trying to murder you slowly and painfully in retaliation?
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Post by Chicken on Jul 30, 2021 10:37:41 GMT -5
So you mean ones that give vague prophecies that not even they themselves understand lol? I'd rather do whatever I'd like as a wandering ghost, or cause trouble in the DF for kicks, than have to deal with the hollier than thou bs that StarClan tries to shove down other people's throats constantly. If it were TNP StarClan, sure, but onward, no thanks. Exactly what kind of kicks are there to be had in the Dark Forest when causing trouble is liable to get a serial killer running you down and trying to murder you slowly and painfully in retaliation? Given how many old old cats showed up in The Dark Forest, including not very strong fighters like Snowtuft and Darkstripe, I don't think this is likely going to happen. Besides, why can't people just vote for who they want to vote for?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 30, 2021 10:52:16 GMT -5
Exactly what kind of kicks are there to be had in the Dark Forest when causing trouble is liable to get a serial killer running you down and trying to murder you slowly and painfully in retaliation? Given how many old old cats showed up in The Dark Forest, including not very strong fighters like Snowtuft and Darkstripe, I don't think this is likely going to happen. Besides, why can't people just vote for who they want to vote for? Agreed, it's kinda annoying having people try and push me to want StarClan instead. StarClan would still be my last choice period. Wandering ghost first, then DF, lastly SC. Let people have their own opinions and perspectives, maybe I'd enjoy walking the Earth as a ghost, or maybe I'd enjoy causing mischief on the living from kitty cat hell. Not everyone is fond of the equivalent of "cat heaven" and getting into supposed paradise.
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Post by Chicken on Jul 30, 2021 10:54:50 GMT -5
Given how many old old cats showed up in The Dark Forest, including not very strong fighters like Snowtuft and Darkstripe, I don't think this is likely going to happen. Besides, why can't people just vote for who they want to vote for? Agreed, it's kinda annoying having people try and push me to want StarClan instead. StarClan would still be my last choice period. Wandering ghost first, then DF, lastly SC. Let people have their own opinions and perspectives, maybe I'd enjoy walking the Earth as a ghost, or maybe I'd enjoy causing mischief in kitty cat hell. Not everyone is fond of the equivalent of "cat heaven" and getting into paradise. Agreed! Like peace is good, but I like a little conflict now and then, it keeps things interesting. I think I'd want to be reincarnated first, then a wandering ghost, then DF, and then SC.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 30, 2021 10:57:21 GMT -5
Agreed, it's kinda annoying having people try and push me to want StarClan instead. StarClan would still be my last choice period. Wandering ghost first, then DF, lastly SC. Let people have their own opinions and perspectives, maybe I'd enjoy walking the Earth as a ghost, or maybe I'd enjoy causing mischief in kitty cat hell. Not everyone is fond of the equivalent of "cat heaven" and getting into paradise. Agreed! Like peace is good, but I like a little conflict now and then, it keeps things interesting. I think I'd want to be reincarnated first, then a wandering ghost, then DF, and then SC. Oh, a reincarnated villain would be a great plot? Like a villain that was killed then reincarnated into a better cat, and struggling with conflicts. Or maybe a good cat done wrong, that was killed, and then reincarnated into another body so they could enact their revenge. Like it's way more interesting plot wise to think about. I'd probably die (again) of boredom in StarClan tbh. Cats bust their butt to survive then get into heaven, where you can do as much as you want and crap, but like...it'll just be an endless cycle, and it'll get old fast. And honestly I'd lose interest real quick, even if I did get into StarClan, I'd probably just pull an Ashfur and cause trouble to liven things up a bit.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 30, 2021 12:00:15 GMT -5
Exactly what kind of kicks are there to be had in the Dark Forest when causing trouble is liable to get a serial killer running you down and trying to murder you slowly and painfully in retaliation? Given how many old old cats showed up in The Dark Forest, including not very strong fighters like Snowtuft and Darkstripe, I don't think this is likely going to happen. Besides, why can't people just vote for who they want to vote for? Snowtuft and Darkstripe are only weak by standards of the best, they’re no worse than average. Moreover, anyone can lose to anyone if you get sucker punched. People can vote for who they want but all the arguments used to support DF over Starclan just seem utterly bizarre. I take issue with the odd logic that Starclan being hypocritical makes it worse than the DF which is ALSO hypocritical and murderous on top. Just doesn’t make sense
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 30, 2021 12:45:15 GMT -5
Given how many old old cats showed up in The Dark Forest, including not very strong fighters like Snowtuft and Darkstripe, I don't think this is likely going to happen. Besides, why can't people just vote for who they want to vote for? Snowtuft and Darkstripe are only weak by standards of the best, they’re no worse than average. Moreover, anyone can lose to anyone if you get sucker punched. People can vote for who they want but all the arguments used to support DF over Starclan just seem utterly bizarre. I take issue with the odd logic that Starclan being hypocritical makes it worse than the DF which is ALSO hypocritical and murderous on top. Just doesn’t make sense But like I never mentioned StarClan being hypocritical as a reason?
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Post by Chicken on Jul 30, 2021 13:28:52 GMT -5
❅Maplefrost❅I would love that! I used to have a joke theory that Sol was Patchkit reincarnated to get revenge on the clans for what happened. Also, I mentioned StarClan being hypocritical in my post. vectoring34My main issue with StarClan is that all their cats who are in the lead broke the code, and it wasn't just a dumb code like eating kittypet food. How can they expect the living cats to uphold the warrior code, when the cats given all the important tasks in StarClan didn't even do that themselves?
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 1, 2021 18:56:57 GMT -5
I'm going to say the Dark Forest, because I'm edgy and short-sighted and think that not wanting to hang out in a fairly nice place that happens to house the occasional idiot or hypocrite is worth loneliness and misery for eternity.
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Post by cygna on Aug 1, 2021 19:10:48 GMT -5
StarClan is better in theory but both are filled with liars and scumbags. The only think The DF had over SC is that they're completely transparent(albeit they do manipulate many young, naive, and vulnerable cats) while StarClan puts up a fasaud.
I do not want to be ruled by codebeakers however I want to be around murderers even less.
I'd be a ghost.
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Post by Chicken on Aug 1, 2021 20:33:05 GMT -5
nowarriornameshereDo you mean that or are you just being a cowardly jerk hiding behind sarcasm?
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 1, 2021 20:48:01 GMT -5
I was indeed being a cowardly jerk hiding behind sarcasm. In fact, I am still being a cowardly jerk and am employing sarcasm somewhere in this post. I'm sure you can find where.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Aug 1, 2021 22:29:02 GMT -5
I'm going to say the Dark Forest, because I'm edgy and short-sighted and think that not wanting to hang out in a fairly nice place that happens to house the occasional idiot or hypocrite is worth loneliness and misery for eternity. Dude don't be an ass
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 1, 2021 22:58:33 GMT -5
I'm going to say the Dark Forest, because I'm edgy and short-sighted and think that not wanting to hang out in a fairly nice place that happens to house the occasional idiot or hypocrite is worth loneliness and misery for eternity. Dude don't be an ass I think you're being pretty silly if you think that constitutes being an ass, but I'm also not particularly interested in helping you derail the thread. If you think this is a conversation that needs to be had, my DMs are open.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Aug 1, 2021 23:31:18 GMT -5
I think you're being pretty silly if you think that constitutes being an ass, but I'm also not particularly interested in helping you derail the thread. If you think this is a conversation that needs to be had, my DMs are open. or you could stop your passive aggressive bs
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
I'm devious, I'm devilish, I'm ever so deliciously evil
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Post by Dark Sun on Aug 1, 2021 23:35:20 GMT -5
I'm not a mod, but I, with courtesy, ask that you two please take the "conversation" above to a PM if you can. There's no use nor any point to derailing a thread in this manner. I've seen where this can go and usually it isn't very pretty, nor is it helpful or interesting for anyone not involved to have to read and sift through.
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Post by Leapkit on Aug 2, 2021 0:01:56 GMT -5
Come on guys we are so close to a bingo here! EDIT: it has come to my attention rehashing twitter drama should have also been crossed off
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Post by Leapkit on Aug 2, 2021 0:03:19 GMT -5
I think you're being pretty silly if you think that constitutes being an ass, but I'm also not particularly interested in helping you derail the thread. If you think this is a conversation that needs to be had, my DMs are open. Eat a shoe, you know exactly how you were behaving to them, don't pretend to take the high road now.
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Post by Leapkit on Aug 2, 2021 0:09:25 GMT -5
Anyway I'd probably end up in the Dark Forest because the Erin's can't even stay consistent in who goes to what afterlife or why. Which is very annoying. But I won't denly that StarClan is definitely preferable as far as "not suffering".
I'd also like to point out though that being alone all the time isn't that annoying to some people. There's also a chance that you could just wander out of StarClan/The Dark Forest and choose to go someplace completely new because it was implied during the new prophecy that StarClan spirits had to make their own journey to move in vacinity of the lake, and we also get a peek at the Tribe's afterlife.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 2, 2021 0:19:02 GMT -5
Pretty much the biggest reason I said that it could be continued in DMs if it had to be continued at all. Anyway I'd probably end up in the Dark Forest because the Erin's can't even stay consistent in who goes to what afterlife or why. Which is very annoying. But I won't denly that StarClan is definitely preferable as far as "not suffering". This, as well as the opposite, is fair. "Ashfur only loved too much," anyone?
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
I'm devious, I'm devilish, I'm ever so deliciously evil
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Post by Dark Sun on Aug 2, 2021 0:26:22 GMT -5
Anyway I'd probably end up in the Dark Forest because the Erin's can't even stay consistent in who goes to what afterlife or why. Which is very annoying. But I won't denly that StarClan is definitely preferable as far as "not suffering". Such as StarClan themselves not deciding who goes to their afterlife, and now they have that power/responsibility? The inconsistency of it all, plus some murkiness here and there, is why I'm always uncertain about some of my OC's. For example, one of them kills outsiders frequently, not out of hatred, bloodlust, revenge, or because he's necessarily sick in the head, but because he merely sees them as akin to rats or Twoleg dogs, and obviously a cat isn't called evil for killing one of those - he was misguided by the warrior code (or perhaps he was looking too deep into places), that's all. Would he end up in the Dark Forest? He apparently wouldn't end up in StarClan since they don't allow "coldblooded murderers" there, and they seldom look at the feelings and more of the facts. But outsiders are considered "outside of the warrior code", so surely their deaths wouldn't make an impact on where a Clan cat goes? (Maybe that's changed in recent books, I'm not entirely caught up.) I'm more leaning towards the Dark Forest for him, but I would love it if the Erins / the editing team generously gave some additional pieces of memo here and there. Throw us a bone please? Anyway, that part over. I would probably leave the Clans at some point and live a life of traveling the world. Would I end up in StarClan? Who knows, but I probably wouldn't care. I would be content going there or fading out of existence.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 2, 2021 0:38:25 GMT -5
Aug 1, 2021 22:26:22 GMT -7 Violetsky said: He apparently wouldn't end up in StarClan since they don't allow "coldblooded murderers" there, and they seldom look at the feelings and more of the facts. But outsiders are considered "outside of the warrior code", so surely their deaths wouldn't make an impact on where a Clan cat goes? I mean, let's talk what even constitutes "cold-blooded murder" as far as the Erins are concerned. Yellowfang killed her son and went to Starclan, right? Hollyleaf murdered Ashfur to shut him up, and he was actually deemed worthy of Starclan before his incel uprising - yet Hollyleaf is also a verified Starclan member. ("Oh, but that's not cold-blooded, Hollyleaf wasn't mentally well at the time-" Mapleshade says hi.) Raggedstar killed his own kittypet father in a fit of rage and he's chilling in Starclan. Where's the line?
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
I'm devious, I'm devilish, I'm ever so deliciously evil
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Post by Dark Sun on Aug 2, 2021 0:52:55 GMT -5
Aug 1, 2021 22:26:22 GMT -7 Violetsky said: He apparently wouldn't end up in StarClan since they don't allow "coldblooded murderers" there, and they seldom look at the feelings and more of the facts. But outsiders are considered "outside of the warrior code", so surely their deaths wouldn't make an impact on where a Clan cat goes? I mean, let's talk what even constitutes "cold-blooded murder" as far as the Erins are concerned. Yellowfang killed her son and went to Starclan, right? Hollyleaf murdered Ashfur to shut him up, and he was actually deemed worthy of Starclan before his incel uprising - yet Hollyleaf is also a verified Starclan member. ("Oh, but that's not cold-blooded, Hollyleaf wasn't mentally well at the time-" Mapleshade says hi.) Raggedstar killed his own kittypet father in a fit of rage and he's chilling in Starclan. Where's the line? Terrific points. I feel a lot of these are more to do with plot and less about trying to remain consistent to established lore, which infuriates me to no end. Or perhaps this further adds to the hypocrisy of the cats in StarClan. I'll go a little more in depth about my character, Snowraven, if you wish. (Listed below in spoilers as to not clog up this post.) (Disclaimer: None of the following takes place in established canon. However, it is as close a representative to the canon series as possible; largely only the characters are dissimilar.) Snowraven was born into WindClan in a time of turmoil with outsiders, who were frequently stealing prey, challenging patrols, and entering and exiting their territory in general on their own whim. As a kit and as an apprentice (and later on in warrior life), Snowraven was an introvert and a thinker who perceived the world differently than most cats. While seeing the warrior code as an absolute, he nonetheless occupied some of his free time plucking away parts of it and extrapolating as much information as he could, although rarely doubting himself. More specifically, later on in life following an accidental murder of an elderly rogue who refused to leave their territory (Snowpaw had become separated from his patrol at the time, reasons TBD), he wondered about the rule that stated it was dishonorable for a Clan cat to kill another cat in battle, unless in self-defense or if they fell outside of the warrior code. Whether he was punished for the murder of the rogue or if the Clan didn't care or if he weaseled his way out of it with a fib, that I've yet to decide. For moons Snowpaw feared that he was going to the Dark Forest for his crime, but the more he thought about it, the more he began to question if he had ever been in the wrong in the first place. He reasoned that outsiders were outside of the warrior code (obviously), so did their lives matter? Did the code actually protect them? He was against murder, but the more he sunk his time into this subject matter the less he began to value the existence of rogues, loners, and kittypets, eventually deeming them as nothing more than rat-like beings with no ancestors to guide them, and as such developed even further xenophobia for them than most of his Clanmates. Over the course of his life Snowraven would kill plenty of outsiders, ranging from elders, to queens and kits, to middle aged toms and she-cats, but only if they entered WindClan territory. During his lifetime he was under the ruling of two leaders, Jaystar, who constantly questioned his actions regarding the killings and once threatened to exile him, and Dovestar, who saw no issue with it so long as it wasn't out of bloodlust - and for Snowraven, it never was. In fact, he was quite a likeable character, but he had this "subjectively" rotten side to him, and yet, he would kill outsiders as easily as a cat would hunt their prey or kill a rat. I'm currently in the debating stage if he should go to the Dark Forest or not. More of a "what if" than anything. But given the inconsistencies in actual canon, I suppose either or will work. After all, I don't know a single character who ended up in The Place Of No Stars by killing outsiders and not Clan cats, and having committed no further crimes. Do any examples actually exist? *Shrug*
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
I'm devious, I'm devilish, I'm ever so deliciously evil
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Post by Dark Sun on Aug 2, 2021 1:17:00 GMT -5
nowarriornameshere I'll make the following case regarding Yellowfang though. The 14th rule in the warrior code reads as follows, "An honorable warrior does not need to kill other cats to win their battles, unless they are outside the warrior code or if it is necessary for self-defense." Brokenstar had been breaking the warrior code for a while - murder, training kits long before the age of six moons, etc. Yellowfang fed him deathberries to ensure that he wouldn't harm any more cats, which is considered a selfless act, even if it is still murder. Since Brokenstar fell outside of the warrior code (which has multiple interpretations; it isn't a stick in the mud kind of deal), killing him for the good of the Clans could be considered honorable. Therefore, feeding into established lore and rules here, she is excused from entering the Dark Forest for this. The others though, not so much.
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Post by Leapkit on Aug 2, 2021 2:36:23 GMT -5
I always saw Yellowfang doing that as a partial mercy killing and guilt-driven than an act of true selfless good. I mean it definitely was for the best, but she was also still a mother who had to sit and watch her son stumble around and be blind and weaker. Not to mention her guilt of unleashing him in the world to begin with, she saw him as her punishment for breaking the code to begin with and she was fixing her mistake.
I wonder, actually, if she hadn't killed him as some type of "atonement" for his crimes, would she have been forgiven for breaking the warrior code? Could the Yellowfang we know have gone to the Dark Forest if she let him live?
It's an interesting theoretical.
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Post by crowspirit on Aug 2, 2021 2:47:11 GMT -5
I think the Dark Forest is more interesting, but I wouldn't want to spend eternity there… So I'd probably choose StarClan and simply chill in the background all the time, sipping beer while shitʼs going down around me. I do NOT want to be involved in the prophecy madness or the other stupid things StarClan is doing.
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
I'm devious, I'm devilish, I'm ever so deliciously evil
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Post by Dark Sun on Aug 2, 2021 3:15:46 GMT -5
I always saw Yellowfang doing that as a partial mercy killing and guilt-driven than an act of true selfless good. I mean it definitely was for the best, but she was also still a mother who had to sit and watch her son stumble around and be blind and weaker. Not to mention her guilt of unleashing him in the world to begin with, she saw him as her punishment for breaking the code to begin with and she was fixing her mistake. I wonder, actually, if she hadn't killed him as some type of "atonement" for his crimes, would she have been forgiven for breaking the warrior code? Could the Yellowfang we know have gone to the Dark Forest if she let him live? It's an interesting theoretical. This is true, but it's been shown multiple times (from what I've read) that StarClan tends to analyze the situation at hand from their point of view and react based off of actions and not feelings. To them, I suspect the reasoning wasn't as important, but rather the outcome and if it necessarily broke the code or not. Maybe I'm wrong though.
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