#8003F9
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on Jul 27, 2021 20:45:21 GMT -5
I want to have a debate like the 2020 and 2021 Warrior debates. So, which afterlife is better? StarClan or The Dark Forest?
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Post by downfalls on Jul 27, 2021 20:50:40 GMT -5
i'd rather fade and die out than go to starclan. it's shit there.
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Post by Chicken on Jul 27, 2021 20:53:52 GMT -5
The Dark Forest isn't full of hypocritical idiots for the most part
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 27, 2021 21:03:31 GMT -5
The Dark Forest isn't full of hypocritical idiots for the most part It absolutely is. Brokenstar demanded strength from others while being weak himself, Tigerstar scorned half-clan cats while having half-clan relationships himself, and Hawkfrost expected mercy from others after showing none himself, and that's just a start.
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Post by Chicken on Jul 27, 2021 21:10:01 GMT -5
The Dark Forest isn't full of hypocritical idiots for the most part It absolutely is. Brokenstar demanded strength from others while being weak himself, Tigerstar scorned half-clan cats while having half-clan relationships himself, and Hawkfrost expected mercy from others after showing none himself, and that's just a start. True, but they got punished for breaking the code unlike the cats in StarClan who now get to be at the forefront, delivering all the prophecies and what not. Now, they're judging cats for doing the same thing that most of them did, though I don't technically count Yellowfang as a code breaker since she was with Raggedstar BEFORE she was a medicine cat. However, she was the one who lied to Squirrelflight as to trick her into covering up for Leafpool, and then she gets put on a trial to decide her fate? I'm glad she was more on their side, but seriously? Why was she even on the jury? Why couldn't it have been idk Whitestorm or someone?
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Post by Katanaheart on Jul 27, 2021 21:14:33 GMT -5
One is literal nice place with light where you can catch prey or do whatever you want as long as you’re content. You can even choose which form from your life stages that fits you best.
The other is a distorting dark land where you will see no stars, could be forced to wander alone unless the forces happen to be strong that generation. Your fellow cats could kill you if they wanted just by seeing you for merely annoying them. Even your potential trainees could kill you if you happen to be in the singular good time to be in the Dark Forest. I’d rather not take the creepy forest with black waters and environment dulls my sense of being over time, let alone choose to go there and be like Antpelt or Mapleshade.
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Post by Mothdapple on Jul 27, 2021 23:04:21 GMT -5
One is literal nice place with light where you can catch prey or do whatever you want as long as you’re content. You can even choose which form from your life stages that fits you best. The other is a distorting dark land where you will see no stars, could be forced to wander alone unless the forces happen to be strong that generation. Your fellow cats could kill you if they wanted just by seeing you for merely annoying them. Even your potential trainees could kill you if you happen to be in the singular good time to be in the Dark Forest. I’d rather not take the creepy forest with black waters and environment dulls my sense of being over time, let alone choose to go there and be like Antpelt or Mapleshade. My thoughts exactly. I don’t understand why this is even a question. StarClan is a nice place, even if the cats there may be hypocritical at times. In StarClan, you’re free to do whatever you please as long as you’re content. I feel like I’d be at peace there. Also, I bet it’s absolutely gorgeous there and it has basically limitless hunting. Not only that, but you’d be reunited with loved ones and friends who died, as long as they weren’t evil of course. However, the Dark Forest is filled with horrible cats, even worse than hypocrites. Actual serial killers and stuff. I’d much rather be stuck living with the StarClan cats such as Onestar and Mudclaw than cats like Brokenstar or Thistleclaw anyday. And in the Dark Forest, you slowly fade away. Snowtuft in The Place of No Stars shows exactly why you wouldn’t want to be in the Dark Forest at all. Not only that, it’s awfully creepy and dark there. No thanks. It’s creepy and unsafe.
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Post by Chicken on Jul 27, 2021 23:09:22 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't mind fading away, this life sucks, who's to say the afterlife won't as well?
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 27, 2021 23:15:31 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't mind fading away, this life sucks, who's to say the afterlife won't as well? By this logic, shouldn't you prefer Starclan? At least you have endless food, friends, and wisdom there. In the Dark Forest, you are starving all the time because you can't hunt, you are either socially isolated or having to watch your back every day to prevent yourself from being murdered depending on the time period, and you are so ignorant of things that entire generations can go by and you don't even notice.
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Post by Chicken on Jul 27, 2021 23:18:41 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't mind fading away, this life sucks, who's to say the afterlife won't as well? By this logic, shouldn't you prefer Starclan? At least you have endless food, friends, and wisdom there. In the Dark Forest, you are starving all the time because you can't hunt, you are either socially isolated or having to watch your back every day to prevent yourself from being murdered depending on the time period, and you are so ignorant of things that entire generations can go by and you don't even notice. How can I have wisdom in StarClan when I don't have any in the living world? I also annoy all of my friends in the living world too, so they'd have to be annoyed by me forever in StarClan, and I don't want them to have to deal with me for that long.
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Post by Brindlefern on Jul 27, 2021 23:32:25 GMT -5
Starclan, obviously. Cat hell in these books is a miserable place for the BAD guys, unlike a supposed actual hell where the devil is, for all we know, unknown and we have no idea what he'd look like if he was real, hell he's probably a more chill dude than those depict him to be. Dark Forest on the other hand is filled with horrid cats and hypocrites that you'd be lucky to not meet up with there, and even if you don't, you're living in isolation, forever starving I bet (I do not agree with the "you're never hungry" thing they threw in for the DF because that makes more sense for Starclan and their heavenly feast thing going on, constant starvation sounds like a fitting punishment for hellcats to contrast and be opposite to their heaven), you WILL get lonely, probably even go insane from it. Plus it's just dark and dank and you're probably looking over your shoulder all the time.
That is if we're speaking of the DF that existed before the Erins made it a meeting spot for bad cats, I prefer that version so I'm using that as an example. (And even then Ashfur's thing he's doing in TPONS is a special instance so idk still if they went back to that TNP type of DF)
Plus there's the thing with the fading. And while I do not agree with it for Starclan, considering that lore is wishy washy at best anyways and it's too depressing on that side, I can see it for the DF where bad memories in the form of the cats there should be forgotten. I don't WANT to be forgotten, in fact I have a fear of it. So no thank you.
In Starclan, you have endless food, it's always warm and comfy in weather/climate, all your friends are likely there, you can do WHATEVER you want as long as you're content and happy there (And that usually comes with the territory of a heaven with a heavenly feast and maximum comforts) and frankly there's NOTHING saying you cannot stick to your own little bubble of friends in isolation there to keep away from the hypocrites there (I imagine Goosefeather does that to stay out of Starclan bullshit for ex.), so why not?
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 28, 2021 0:10:35 GMT -5
StarClan, obviously. This isn't even a contest. I'd take sharing space with someone like Onestar than Mapleshade any day. In the Dark Forest, you have to be on constant alert with accidentally offending the wrong cat, and that's assuming you don't go mad from isolation first. The environment itself is also horrible in every way possible and the books make this explicitly clear.
In StarClan, you're reunited with loved ones and have endless prey, and the chances of you interacting with someone you don't like or ending up completely alone are pretty low, nor are there any consequences if you end up offending someone besides that cat getting annoyed with you at most. I'll take that over the fear of a second death any day. The fact that Bluestar was stated to be living with Oakheart and Mosskit also implies that there are even little communities, more or less. Just because there are some hypocrites here and there doesn't actually make it a bad place to go to. The pros far outweigh the cons.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jul 28, 2021 0:32:20 GMT -5
Are Starclan guides sometimes dumb? Yeah, but I don't think this makes sense. Dark Forest is literally cat hell. Starclan has endless prey, good weather, and it's where your loved ones go so you're always reunited. Lots of Starclan cats don't even interact with the living world, so they don't have to deal with the stupidity.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Jul 28, 2021 6:47:53 GMT -5
StarClan. For all its flaws, you could at least argue it's a relatively normal and peaceful place.
The Dark Forest is not even a place I want to visit, let alone live.
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Post by roseberry on Jul 28, 2021 10:30:29 GMT -5
StarClan, for sure. I mean, this question is just asking "heaven or hell." In my opinion, I don't personally want to be surrounded by evil cats who could just kill me any second. StarClan is also pretty as well, according to Enter the Clans, The Ultimate Guide, etc. I'm good with going to heaven.
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Post by Chicken on Jul 28, 2021 10:37:59 GMT -5
Other than in OOTS, I don't think you'd be surrounded by cats who would kill you at any second, because remember when Darkstripe was so excited about being another cat in the Dark Forest? Spending an eternity in a quiet gloomy place with no one around sounds like a dream. Plus, everyone I dislike will probably choose StarClan, and do I really want to be in the same place as them. No. Also, a place where you can do whatever you want sounds like chaos, if there aren't any rules or guidelines, how will you know what to do?
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Currently sick with the flu...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jul 28, 2021 11:05:32 GMT -5
I'd rather be a constantly happy ghost who is surrounded by loved ones, beautiful scenery and lots of prey than become a deranged spirit who is either walking the afterlife in solitude or has to watch out for other vengeful creatures inhabiting a scary forest with no light, sense of time or even food.
StarClan it is. The Dark Forest sucks to no end.
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Post by Brindlefern on Jul 28, 2021 11:09:03 GMT -5
Other than in OOTS, I don't think you'd be surrounded by cats who would kill you at any second, because remember when Darkstripe was so excited about being another cat in the Dark Forest? Spending an eternity in a quiet gloomy place with no one around sounds like a dream. Plus, everyone I dislike will probably choose StarClan, and do I really want to be in the same place as them. No.
Also, a place where you can do whatever you want sounds like chaos, if there aren't any rules or guidelines, how will you know what to do? Regarding the bolded bit, like I said, there's nothing saying you can't isolate yourself in Starclan to get away from those you do not like. I don't get the idea that just because someone you won't like will possibly get into cat heaven means you'll be trapped with them or something and are forced to deal with them. Starclan is not some confined space. Just find your own cozy glade and curl up somewhere in secret and you're gg. Also speaking as an introvert who rarely does socialization irl, you will eventually get lonely unless you're a complete misanthrope or something equivalent to it for cats. That "quiet gloomy place" is literally an isolated hell where you're always hungry (Like fr tho do you really want hunger pangs all the time just for a sense of quiet?), it's not a self-isolation cubby to get away from peopl- uh cats that you don't like. Isolation is nice only in fragments unless you're the biggest loner-type around and even that is stretching it as cats are still social creatures (or rather it's depending on the individual but you get my point).
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Post by Chicken on Jul 28, 2021 11:48:12 GMT -5
Other than in OOTS, I don't think you'd be surrounded by cats who would kill you at any second, because remember when Darkstripe was so excited about being another cat in the Dark Forest? Spending an eternity in a quiet gloomy place with no one around sounds like a dream. Plus, everyone I dislike will probably choose StarClan, and do I really want to be in the same place as them. No.
Also, a place where you can do whatever you want sounds like chaos, if there aren't any rules or guidelines, how will you know what to do? Regarding the bolded bit, like I said, there's nothing saying you can't isolate yourself in Starclan to get away from those you do not like. I don't get the idea that just because someone you won't like will possibly get into cat heaven means you'll be trapped with them or something and are forced to deal with them. Starclan is not some confined space. Just find your own cozy glade and curl up somewhere in secret and you're gg. Also speaking as an introvert who rarely does socialization irl, you will eventually get lonely unless you're a complete misanthrope or something equivalent to it for cats. That "quiet gloomy place" is literally an isolated hell where you're always hungry (Like fr tho do you really want hunger pangs all the time just for a sense of quiet?), it's not a self-isolation cubby to get away from peopl- uh cats that you don't like. Isolation is nice only in fragments unless you're the biggest loner-type around and even that is stretching it as cats are still social creatures (or rather it's depending on the individual but you get my point). Those are really good points, though the hunger thing I can't really get into without getting into personal issues, so I'm just going to leave it at that. Maybe StarClan would be better, but people trying to change my opinion makes me want to choose the DF even more. I don't know why people are taking this thread so seriously, it's not like we're talking about actual heaven and hell in the bible, though in that case, I'd choose reincarnation or something.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 28, 2021 11:48:54 GMT -5
Other than in OOTS, I don't think you'd be surrounded by cats who would kill you at any second, because remember when Darkstripe was so excited about being another cat in the Dark Forest? Spending an eternity in a quiet gloomy place with no one around sounds like a dream. Plus, everyone I dislike will probably choose StarClan, and do I really want to be in the same place as them. No. Also, a place where you can do whatever you want sounds like chaos, if there aren't any rules or guidelines, how will you know what to do? I don't think you have any idea what that actually means, being alone in a quiet gloomy place. Being alone like that is akin to solitary confinement in the real world, except worse. At least in the real world a guard will pass you food now and then and the room isn't foul. In the Dark Forest, there is no food and the environment is horrific to the senses. And solitary confinement is not good in the least. People inside of it are known to have higher rates of psychosis, depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, and a bunch of other horrific side effects because simply put the brain is not designed to be isolated from everything like that.
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Post by Chicken on Jul 28, 2021 11:51:40 GMT -5
Other than in OOTS, I don't think you'd be surrounded by cats who would kill you at any second, because remember when Darkstripe was so excited about being another cat in the Dark Forest? Spending an eternity in a quiet gloomy place with no one around sounds like a dream. Plus, everyone I dislike will probably choose StarClan, and do I really want to be in the same place as them. No. Also, a place where you can do whatever you want sounds like chaos, if there aren't any rules or guidelines, how will you know what to do? I don't think you have any idea what that actually means, being alone in a quiet gloomy place. Being alone like that is akin to solitary confinement in the real world, except worse. At least in the real world a guard will pass you food now and then and the room isn't foul. In the Dark Forest, there is no food and the environment is horrific to the senses. And solitary confinement is not good in the least. People inside of it are known to have higher rates of psychosis, depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, and a bunch of other horrific side effects because simply put the brain is not designed to be isolated from everything like that. Well, I already have all of those so...
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 28, 2021 12:15:46 GMT -5
I don't think you have any idea what that actually means, being alone in a quiet gloomy place. Being alone like that is akin to solitary confinement in the real world, except worse. At least in the real world a guard will pass you food now and then and the room isn't foul. In the Dark Forest, there is no food and the environment is horrific to the senses. And solitary confinement is not good in the least. People inside of it are known to have higher rates of psychosis, depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, and a bunch of other horrific side effects because simply put the brain is not designed to be isolated from everything like that. Well, I already have all of those so... That'll make it even worse. Solitary confinement breaks the minds of hardened criminals, what do you think it's going to do to someone with pre-existing conditions? It's going to be a heck of a lot worse I can tell you that for sure. It's not like it'll stop having an effect just because someone already has it; rather it'll compound it and make it even worse.
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Post by Chicken on Jul 28, 2021 12:19:10 GMT -5
Well, I already have all of those so... That'll make it even worse. Solitary confinement breaks the minds of hardened criminals, what do you think it's going to do to someone with pre-existing conditions? It's going to be a heck of a lot worse I can tell you that for sure. It's not like it'll stop having an effect just because someone already has it; rather it'll compound it and make it even worse. That's true, I don't actually like being alone tbh, I love being around people I like, but unfortunately, they don't like being around me a lot of the time. I'm sorry for being such a downer btw, idk what's wrong with me.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jul 28, 2021 18:53:34 GMT -5
StarClan. Nothing sounds better than chilling with my friends and family for all of eternity. And if I'd prefer to be alone, then it's possible- StarClan is infinite, isn't it? The Dark Forest on the other hand... no thanks. Reading Ivypool's experiences there in OOTS and how it affected her is enough to make me want to stay out and stay far away from it.
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Post by Aqua on Jul 28, 2021 18:57:22 GMT -5
StarClan. I can easily avoid the stupid cats and just mind my own business. I wouldn't be able to handle the gruesome stuff in the Dark Forest.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2021 18:58:16 GMT -5
I think Starclan. I prefer Starclan. Though we do fade away in the end..
(...) Am I the only one that's uncomfortable with the whole 'fading away' thing. I mean, what's the point of training to become a warrior or Medicine cat to protect your clan when in the end your just gonna fade away? I'm not trying to sound rude, it's just.. Why can't the dark forest cats be the only ones to fade away while Starclan just survives forever?
O.O I'm starting to get off topic here..
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Post by mintedstar/fur🦇 on Jul 28, 2021 20:50:56 GMT -5
Okay, but I picked the Dark Forest because of the world building. It has such an odd setting compared to StarClan, not to mention just the idea of it in general. Don't like the cats. Meh. But I'm very interested in the idea of it as a location.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 29, 2021 1:26:58 GMT -5
starclan because i could just keep to myself and not get involved with the living world. like we only see certain cats pop up in starclan, right? so if u just dont care about anything, u can just chill in starclan for all eternity as long as people remember you like dia de los muertos
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Post by Moonblazer on Jul 29, 2021 10:36:41 GMT -5
Can I be a wandering Ghost who still travels and watches the living and plays ghostly pranks? Like inbetween?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 29, 2021 12:00:29 GMT -5
Dark Forest, or a wandering Ghost, cause I'd rather not deal with StarClan's crap tbh.
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