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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 1, 2021 21:08:04 GMT -5
Agree. There are some incredibly cringy parts for sure, like Finn-"have my babies or I can't stay"-leap, but I can't say it was as bad as some say.
We need more rival type figures that exist in clans that aren't the protagonist's. Like a character that keeps getting engaged in the same struggles that a main character gets embroiled in, but the two have different priorities - their own clans, for starters - and have a relationship that's kind of defined by how they're similar, how they're different, and how they both work together or fight against each other when the appropriate times come. Breezepelt is kind of the closest that we came to one, but he felt less like a rival and more of a little b*tch who was more of just a thorn in the side as an enemy and deadweight as an ally. (Speaking as somebody who actually sort of likes Breezpelt.) I want a respectable rival parallel.
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Aug 1, 2021 21:33:28 GMT -5
precisely. I wouldn't mind some off screen rivalries as well, adding more to some characters than "I'm just here to pad the numbers."
There needs to be more minor battles more for pride than anything like what the situation with sunningrocks was. Neither Riverclan or Thunderclan needed the territory to survive, it was just for luxury and bragging rights. It added more to clan rivalry and felt more realistic than the constant character driven issues like onestar being a moron or sol taking control of shadowclan. Also made it more of an issue when something like Redtail's death happens, because it's a "You killed him for no reason" type issue.
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Post by Firestorme on Aug 1, 2021 22:47:09 GMT -5
Agree
The forest is better than the lake. The forest has more memorable landmarks, like sunningrocks and snakerocks, and places like the gorge and Thunderpath added some tension and sense of danger.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 1, 2021 23:04:29 GMT -5
Agree. The landmarks in question make the forest feel a bit realer.
Rock having spent pretty much his entire existence worrying about "the fate of all" and a battle that was coming for ages just to basically remain silent on the Ashfur issue is a joke.
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Aug 1, 2021 23:12:07 GMT -5
100% agree.
Ashfur was a bad choice for the imposter. If they were going to go that route, they should've done someone a bit more, you know, threatening? Ashfur is quite literally one of the most one dimensional characters I've ever seen and was pretty much used only as a plot device to 1. reveal that the three were actually leafpool's kits and 2. set up Hollyleaf's exit. His character was wasted potential, given his background and history.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Aug 2, 2021 4:11:05 GMT -5
Neutral
Spottedleaf was a horrible StarClan guide.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Aug 2, 2021 5:31:44 GMT -5
Agree.
Mothwing was way too harsh on Shadowsight in Darkness Within but she got better in The Place of No Stars.
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Post by Rainsplash on Aug 2, 2021 6:26:26 GMT -5
Agree.
I'd like Mothwing dying suddenly and RiverClan panicking, along with Mistystar's death,
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Post by Mothdapple on Aug 2, 2021 8:00:56 GMT -5
Agreed, especially if Reedwhisker dies as well and all of the pressure is put onto Frostpaw to pick a leader.
There needs to be a soft reboot after ASC.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Aug 2, 2021 8:07:38 GMT -5
Agreed, maybe focusing on new characters from a next generation faaaar away from the current one.
Millie wasn't that bad of a mother, and she gets too much hate
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 2, 2021 10:14:00 GMT -5
She really wasn't. When your daughter tried to help somebody and got crippled for life for it, it's understandable why you'd be a lot more on-edge and easily upset. She did say a mean thing or two and I'm not trying to mitigate that, but it really gets overtalked because her "neglect" "drove" Blossomfall into the Dark Forest's clutches. And I mean what? Isn't Blossomfall basically a f*cking adult now, why is she throwing "Mum doesn't love me" tantrums when she's literally just reached the equivalent of reaching adulthood in her society and can handle herself, while her mum is understandably more invested in helping her half-paralyzed daughter actually try to survive living in her new condition and can't spare the time to hold her bloody paw through her new life as a warrior? Millie didn't handle it perfectly but she was a good mother who made a couple of missteps and she gets shit on for it because of how Blossomfall handled it.
The Erins probably didn't intend it, but Cinderpelt partially feels like a more tasteful version of what they tried doing with Spottedleaf in the afterlife. She's not an obsessive stalker but just calmly serves Firestar and the clan and gives her help when it's needed, has a genuinely good relationship with his daughter that has nothing to do with her being his daughter, and just lives her life separate from what she wishes she had with Firestar. Best of all, the comparison isn't a 1-for-1 because Cinderpelt actually has more to her than wishing that she could have gotten with Firestar and her even wanting that is just a minor element of her.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Aug 2, 2021 10:32:26 GMT -5
AGREE
Berrynose x Poppyfrost > Berrynose x Honeyfern.
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Post by Chicken on Aug 2, 2021 10:37:01 GMT -5
Agree! Like, Honeyfern spent moons pining over Berrynose who didn't give her the time of day, and then suddenly he's all into her right before she dies. It seems to me, they only decided to make them mates right then and there to make her death even more sad.
While pretty names are nice, I think it'd be cool to see some not so pretty ones like Leechkit or something.
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Aug 2, 2021 11:11:18 GMT -5
Agreed. TNP had quite a few ugly or fierce names like clawface and yellowfang (yes I know they're both shadowclan) and it would be nice to see a cat make a case to their leader for a name change for something more fierce.
There should be a few books that give the tribe of rushing water a little bit more in depth. They are so bland in everything they've been in and it would be nice to see something less one dimensional.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 2, 2021 12:03:53 GMT -5
I really dislike the Tribe, but I agree here. The chance to actually get expanded on might give more insight into the traits that I find them really unsympathetic for. The problem is that I don't know how interesting you can make life centered around them about. A good amount of Clan drama is caused by not just outer threats, but how the other Clans also react to those events - if the other Clans aren't serving as the problem to begin with. The Tribe is just the Tribe. Nobody else lives there besides the rogues (in the modern era). What are the threats in the mountain? Cold - so make sure you shelter appropriately or die. Hunger - so find food or die. Mountain lion (singular) - so get a main character's best friend's daughter to drop a stalactite on him or die. Granted, I'm willing to believe that other people can get more creative than me, so maybe somebody who can can come up with such scenarios and give the Tribe a chance.
I have a really hard time being sympathetic to or caring much about Poppyfrost. She was decent enough in PoT, but then we find out come OotS that she hopped into bed with her dead sister's boyfriend almost immediately? Logically, I should dislike Berrynose just as much for it, if not moreso, but I feel that Berrynose actually has other, interesting elements to his character, like his role as Ashfur's Number 2 in the current arc. Poppyfrost has "Jaypaw's first real patient" and "I shagged my sister's boyfriend about a month or two after she died and now I feel bad". I mean what the hell?
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Post by Chicken on Aug 2, 2021 12:34:33 GMT -5
Agree. However, I find it baffling that Berrynose gets way more blame in the fandom, I rarely hear anyone call Poppyfrost out, it's always Berrynose. However, the fact that Poppyfrost and Honeyfern were littermates seems like more of a wtf thing to me, because mates come and go, but family is forever (unless your family sucks of course)
Scorchfur is overhated
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Aug 2, 2021 13:05:11 GMT -5
I'm gonna go with neutral, as I can't even remember who that is lol.
Jayfeather is the most relatable protagonist personality-wise. Everyone else is either too perfect (not that they are, just not imperfect enough to be believable) or acts like a whiny child all the time (I'm looking at you, dovewing and ivypool.)
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 2, 2021 13:09:23 GMT -5
Disagree. Jayfeather comes off as whiny and somewhat entitled.
Neither Heathertail or Lionblaze are interesting.
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Post by Firestorme on Aug 2, 2021 13:26:43 GMT -5
Disagree. Lionblaze is great. Heathertail, not so much.
Hawkwing is overrated. I think hes great, but not a god like people make him out to be.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 2, 2021 13:53:26 GMT -5
Disagree, it's just that he's one of the few characters actually written well and consistent nowadays.
I think Gray Wing is a better-written protagonist than Firestar.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 2, 2021 13:58:13 GMT -5
Disagree to neutral. Gray Wing got boring at times, Firestar did not. However, I like them both.
WindClan, like ShadowClan, have had a string of poor to outright bad leaders until recently.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 2, 2021 14:05:12 GMT -5
Agree. I like Firestar, but in the first series, he just kind of lacks some of the strength in writing that some later characters have. He's a good guy, he'll pretty much always do the right thing, he'll break rules for the greater good, he's incredibly dense when it comes to romance, he really wants to prove himself but won't do anything shady to do it. He's not bad at all, but I feel that sometimes he gets talked up as more than what he was in the first arc because he's "the original protagonist".
EDIT: NINJA'D AGAIN
Windclan really only has had one really bad leader in recent memory, yeah? Onestar is pretty painful to read. I can't say I agree on calling Harestar bad, though. He's made a couple of off decisions, but his heart seems to be in the right place and he's doing his best.
Darkstripe needs to show what he's about soon. He's in the current arc. What's even going through his mind at the moment? In TPB, he basically started self-destructing the second Tigerstar died and basically set his sights on "Firestar or death". What's even his deal now that Tigerstar is dead for the second time? Unlike The Darkest Hour, it's been ages since Tigerstar bit it a second time, so I would be surprised if he was still grieving, but he's just... generic evil right now. I just want to see slimy, petty, scumbag Darkstripe rear his ugly head one last time and not just be a generic mook. (Also, he HAS to have some opinion on Ashfur. The little literally used to be his apprentice.)
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Aug 2, 2021 14:12:36 GMT -5
Hear me out, what if darkstripe kills ashfur a second time? We get to see Darkstripe pop up and then we don't have to deal with Mr. "Stole my girl" anymore.
I wish we knew more about the ancients like fallen leaves and Half moon and what the heck was going on with them. (Also, I'd like to know how long ago the ancients left for the mountains because I'm interested in figuring out what human technology was around when they were there.)
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Post by Copperstar☂ on Aug 2, 2021 15:10:40 GMT -5
Agree.
Jayfeather shouldn't have been blamed for Flametail's death
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Post by Chicken on Aug 2, 2021 15:55:36 GMT -5
nowarriornameshereActually, Dustpelt mentored Ashfur, but Darkstripe did mentor Ferncloud before he was banished, and she got Longtail as her mentor. And also, Darkstripe mentored Dustpelt after Redtail died, so there's a connection there too. Agreed Runningnose is underrated
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Aug 2, 2021 17:38:36 GMT -5
Agree! The medicine cat who couldn't cure his own cold could have made for a great short funny story.
Flametail isn't the jerk he appears to be
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Aug 2, 2021 17:42:41 GMT -5
If he isn't a jerk, than what is he, because I haven't seen much else.
They should introduce more wildlife to the series, whether that be including other forms of wildlife already introduced in the series or involving new ones. I think raccoons would make for an interesting interaction.
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Post by Copperstar☂ on Aug 2, 2021 17:48:09 GMT -5
Agree!
Yellowfang would've been a good mother to Brokenkit
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Aug 2, 2021 17:53:23 GMT -5
Agreed. Yellowfang's got that mama bear energy i think. She'd be super defensive.
The cross clan relationships are kind of annoying. I wanna see a forbidden romance between a medicine cat and maybe a leader or a deputy. (yes i know yellowfang was that but it was kind of crummy as far as romances go.)
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Post by Chicken on Aug 2, 2021 18:26:23 GMT -5
Agreed!
On the topic of forbidden relationships, I don't think the code should change in that aspect, there's no reason for it to, the only issues that stem from this rule are caused by cats who broke the rule in the first place.
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