yondertides
"You've got the guts of a coyote pack."-Cloud Cult
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Post by yondertides on Jun 11, 2021 21:53:35 GMT -5
Honestly, Fandom Nightcloud > Canon Nightcloud any day for me. In canon, I don't think she was a particularly bad character, just generally unpleasant. I think we were shown a she-cat who desperately wanted a family, then didn't really know how to positively handle the disfunctional one she got. She and Crowfeather fed into each other's toxicity, and I was so glad to see the authors develop them into supportive friends finally after so many books of them being incompatible mates. Don't you mean Fandom < Canon then? Because by putting the > it seems you prefer the fandom one but seem to be fine with her canon depiction and how it turned out in the end. Nope, I definitely prefer fandom Nightcloud. I don't dislike canon Nightcloud and don't think she's that horrible, but I think the fandom has done more interesting things with her...then again, I could say that about a lot of characters 😅
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jun 12, 2021 2:14:48 GMT -5
I don't like Nightcloud. Her personality is just unlikeable. Just as Rainsplash and Dawnbird have said, some of her character really annoys me, like calling Jayfeather a murder or taunting to Hollyleaf she wasn't welcome. I'm sorry but that unnecessary hostility makes me dislike her.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 13, 2021 15:42:43 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by downfalls on Jun 14, 2021 0:05:58 GMT -5
Honestly I really don't like her that much. She spoiled Breezepelt to the point where he thought it was okay to hang out with DF cats. She was also too possessive of Crowfeather.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jun 14, 2021 0:08:14 GMT -5
Honestly I really don't like her that much. She spoiled Breezepelt to the point where he thought it was okay to hang out with DF cats. She was also too possessive of Crowfeather. She...is not the reason he joined the DF though. The reason he joined the Dark Forest was because they preyed on his neglect from his father. Breezepelt knew it was wrong to be in the Dark Forest with malicious murderers, but he was so consumed in hatred for his father that he wanted revenge, so they manipulated him into doing henious things so he could get back at his father, his half-siblings and Leafpool.
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Post by Showers on Jun 14, 2021 0:47:18 GMT -5
if nightcloud was a completely perfect mom, breezepelt would have still turned out bitter and resentful. she is not the reason he trained in the dark forest. if breezepelt had a great relationship with crowfeather, but nightcloud still "coddled" him, he wouldn't have turned out nearly as awful. crowfeather can say nightcloud led breezepelt to believe he didn't love his son, but the truth is he didn't try hard enough to show his son that he loved him. it's a really flimsy excuse.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jun 14, 2021 0:59:26 GMT -5
if nightcloud was a completely perfect mom, breezepelt would have still turned out bitter and resentful. she is not the reason he trained in the dark forest. if breezepelt had a great relationship with crowfeather, but nightcloud still "coddled" him, he wouldn't have turned out nearly as awful. crowfeather can say nightcloud led breezepelt to believe he didn't love his son, but the truth is he didn't try hard enough to show his son that he loved him. it's a really flimsy excuse. i was gonna say a response to this point from earlier. to me, nightcloud is an entitled mom, and breezepelt is an entitled brat. nightcloud's coddling made him entitled in the sense he could do no wrong. "it's not my fault. it's my dad's" etc. thats why i personally think nightcloud is a bad mom, and why i dont like her (pre-CT). even if crowfeather did show his love in a healthy way, nightcloud's coddling would still make breezepelt a brat (granted, not an evil violence lovign brat, but still an entitled brat who is selfish and self centered).
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Post by Moonblazer on Jun 14, 2021 6:36:46 GMT -5
Honestly I really don't like her that much. She spoiled Breezepelt to the point where he thought it was okay to hang out with DF cats. She was also too possessive of Crowfeather. She...is not the reason he joined the DF though. The reason he joined the Dark Forest was because they preyed on his neglect from his father. Breezepelt knew it was wrong to be in the Dark Forest with malicious murderers, but he was so consumed in hatred for his father that he wanted revenge, so they manipulated him into doing henious things so he could get back at his father, his half-siblings and Leafpool. This exactly. When Tigerstar and Brokenstar and Hawkfrost were circling him and whispering things to him, influencing him and giving him the praise and motivation he never received from Crowfeather, they only bring up how Crowfeather wronged him, how Crowfeather hurt him, and how Crowfeather neglected him. The sad truth is that they weren’t even wrong about it. They were able to feed on that anger in Breezepelt because Crowfeather was genuinely turning his head each time Breezepelt wanted a shred of recognition from his own father. I especially think of how Crowfeather openly praised and complimented Lionblaze on the journey to the mountains but never said anything to Breezepelt even when Breezepelt was genuinely helpful and deserving of at least some praise. I can imagine how that must have felt then after the secret was revealed. That Breezepelt must have assumed that Crowfeather knew and preferred his Thunderclan kits the entire time, seeing as he was quick to treat Lionblaze in a kinder manner than he ever treated Breezepelt. I get if people despise Nightcloud and want to baby their precious Crowfeather, but ignoring the fact that all of Breezepelt’s hatred was focused completely on Crowfeather and Crowfeather alone is crazy to me. His neglect was what influenced Breezepelt’s turn to the DF. Plain and simple.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Jul 7, 2021 1:39:30 GMT -5
I mostly don't like Nightcloud because of how she clawed Crowfeather's back. I am aware Crowfeather was bad to her, but she was just as terrible back to him, clawing his back and dragging him away from Leafpool while her son was WAILING in distress. It was actually the only time I felt sorry for Breezepelt, and I loathe the guy. Since then, none of her actions have been redeemable for me, especially when she kept blaming Crowfeather for everything in CT. Do I feel sorry for her? Of course. I know she's a good cat, but there's a lot of telling and not showing, and I feel like the books give Nightcloud too much credit when they say "she tried to keep her family together" but reality is, she's often shown insulting Crowfeather and Crowfeather fighting her back. These two have a really bad family reputation. Even SHADOWCLAN doesn't like how Crowfeather and Nightcloud treat each other. I don't think that's really Nightcloud's fault. They're cats, if they want to grab someone, they HAVE to use claws since their thumbs and fingers aren't large enough to get a good grip otherwise. It's either that, or biting them, so claws is the better option to pull him back. In the books it has been shown multiple times that if they want to grab someone, they just go stand in front of it, or push it away. This has to be the first time a cat actually tries to grab another cat with claws, or even paws.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 7, 2021 8:12:57 GMT -5
I don't think that's really Nightcloud's fault. They're cats, if they want to grab someone, they HAVE to use claws since their thumbs and fingers aren't large enough to get a good grip otherwise. It's either that, or biting them, so claws is the better option to pull him back. In the books it has been shown multiple times that if they want to grab someone, they just go stand in front of it, or push it away. This has to be the first time a cat actually tries to grab another cat with claws, or even paws. She can't go stand in front of someone if Leafpool's right in front of him and pushing him away only pushes him further towards her.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 7, 2021 10:39:47 GMT -5
In the books it has been shown multiple times that if they want to grab someone, they just go stand in front of it, or push it away. This has to be the first time a cat actually tries to grab another cat with claws, or even paws. She can't go stand in front of someone if Leafpool's right in front of him and pushing him away only pushes him further towards her. Quite literally. Like the positioning was Night > Crow > Leaf, she pulled him away from her, and then that's when Breezepelt came between them after when he pulled away. I feel like people blow the "her clawing him" thing out of proportion some times. She was pulling him away, not striking him with ill intent like some want to make it out to be.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Jul 7, 2021 13:16:16 GMT -5
She can't go stand in front of someone if Leafpool's right in front of him and pushing him away only pushes him further towards her. She could push him with her shoulder to the right or left. That would be perfectly possible. She could have also pushed Leafpool away with her weight to stand in front of Crowfeather.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 7, 2021 16:10:26 GMT -5
She could push him with her shoulder to the right or left. That would be perfectly possible. She could have also pushed Leafpool away with her weight to stand in front of Crowfeather. Pushing him with her shoulder to the side hardly gets him out of the situation, which is that they're staring at each other on the border. It might actually get him even more entangled in it. Taking a swing at Leafpool is worse still in terms of trying to end things quickly.
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Post by Numquam on Jul 7, 2021 17:49:47 GMT -5
I usually love asshole characters or those who are capable of being aggressive/hostile but something about Nightcloud just makes her really annoying and boring. Everytime she comes up in the books I just roll my eyes. I can't really put my finger on why though.
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Post by MadameDelune on Jul 7, 2021 18:55:42 GMT -5
Yes
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