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Post by Rainsplash on Jan 24, 2021 3:18:12 GMT -5
How do you feel about Breezepelt's redemption, his character, or as a real person?
His redemption was badly done. One time, he's grinning smugly at the fallen viciously like a villain. But in 2018, maybe people started coddling Breezepelt, Crowfeather's Trial came, which was a fan service. This pins the blame on Crowfeather, something like "Old Crowy started the bad stuff, and Breezy was just led along the wrong path! Nightcloud was just a victim of his play" or whatever. He's pictured as this misunderstood person who didn't know what the Dark Forest did, and only trained there for his Clan's well being.
But that is not true.
In Omen of the Stars's second book or something, it's shown that Breezepelt fully acknowledges the Dark Forest's actions, and vows to hurt is father like he did. Maybe he's going to ignore his dad's questions or something, but nooo, he decides to kill!
Now, in CT, he says that that scene didn't happen, and his actions were just misunderstood. It doesn't bring up any of his questionable actions, like the Moonpool thingy (Why on earth, I mean how on earth could Lionblaze forgive somebody who tried to murder him? Maybe I'm being tight, but I honestly couldn't. Jayfeather was actually more humane by not forgiving. Oh, and Jayfeather shouldn't have said that he hated Breezepelt because he attacked his brother; he should tell Crowfeather about the Moonpool "incident")
I was annoyed at Gorsetail and Leaftail and a hundred others for blaming Breezepelt because that's just frustrating in the reader's view, but recently, while rereading it, I understood why they would have cautions and whispers. People are like that. Think: You live in a village, and there are four villages in total. There's a war against evildoers, and they have recruited the village people. The village people didn't know what they were up to, but some knowingly fought by their side, killing their friends and those who trusted him.
One in your village has attempted to kill his half-brother. He was almost a murderer, and was only stopped from being one by his father. Would you accept him, not grudgingly, but on your own accord, like your village chief has? Would you welcome him back without any doubts? I don't think so. I wouldn't, anyway.
Anyway, CT shows Breezepelt and Nightcloud in the brightest and cleanest and most wonderful light of all. They were just innocent victims of Crowfeather's poor attempt to seem loyal.
For his character, that's ridiculous as well. Though it's not the worst, I suppose. He has overreacted over his father's distant parenting. His father didn't neglect him. He was simply distant, although that might have felt big. Still, that is no reason to go train with maniacs, even after fully knowing their evil intentions. Actually, nothing can be excused of Breezepelt's behavior. Bitter? Yes. Attempting to murder his half-brother? No. Gloating at the loss of Hollyleaf, who's his half-sister? No.
While he felt angry and felt no kinship towards them, I can't understand some of the fandom trying to excuse this... terrifying behavior. People try to excuse him, pinning the blame on his parents.
While Nightcloud and Crowfeather might be partly responsible for Breezepelt's hatred, that doesn't excuse his actions. It doesn't exactly explain his murdering thing either.
For the real person part, this means 'How would I feel if Breezepelt was a real person, somebody in my society?' Well, I'd be spooked. Firstly, I'd stay unnoticed, because he'd just look like somebody who's going to take your money at school. If it's after the Great Battle, I'd report him to the police and beg him to be behind the bars for attempted murder, or move to the opposite of the globe.
He'd be no pleasure to be around. His bitterness would make me uncomfortable, and his raging personality would scare me.
I don't like Breezepelt.
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Post by Jaysnow on Jan 24, 2021 4:12:47 GMT -5
His "redemption" was horribly done. All of his previous actions were swept under the rug with some half assed excuse. Having a rough childhood does not justify all the horrible shit you've done.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Jan 24, 2021 4:45:22 GMT -5
Breezepelt's redemption was terrible. After I read Crowfeather's Trial, I was left feeling a confused: "Where on Earth did that come from?"
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jan 24, 2021 6:40:29 GMT -5
Breezepelt's redemption is quite possibly the worst redemption arc I've ever had the displeasure of reading about, mostly because of how much it downplays Breezepelt's previous actions and how much the narrative itself expects the readers to care about him.
Seriously, the book really laid it on thick.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jan 24, 2021 6:51:37 GMT -5
I wish Breezepelt's redemption included things like his attack at the Moonpool or him attacking Crowfeather at TLH. Otherwise, it's fine.
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Bisexual
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BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 24, 2021 7:58:44 GMT -5
That's true.
Breezepelt during Crowfeather's Trial was like: New cat who dis?
I still like him as the complicated character he is but can agree that his redemption could have been done better.
I'm quite certain that the new team of editors did not read PoT or OotS (nor Dovewing's Silence).
Breezepelt's crimes were also never adressed again and his apology to Lionblaze should have extended to Jayfeather.
Such a shame.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jan 24, 2021 8:31:59 GMT -5
I’m fine with it. It was done as well as Hollyleaf’s or Blackstar’s, and way better than Needletail’s. If I’m supposed to forgive those three, I can easily forgive Breezepelt. He’s clearly become a better Warrior, has a happy relationship, is loyal to his clan once again, and fixed his relationship with his family. He was an angry cat who made awful choices but who is becoming a better cat. To be honest, it’s not even a redemption really. Hardly anyone in Windclan actually forgave him and he was aware of that. The book literally showcased that Windclan as a whole didn’t trust him. Which is honestly better writing than the three cats mentioned before who are seen as heroes and who have also not ever owned up for their awful actions soooo.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jan 24, 2021 8:35:26 GMT -5
And I’m genuinely getting sick and tired of this denial of neglect as if people don’t go through this daily with their own families. Does it excuse Breezepelt’s actions? Absolutely not. But was what Crowfeather did neglect? Yes, it absolutely was, even if you don’t think it was “bad” enough to count as neglect. Even in that definition, the actions in the books actually match it pretty well.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 24, 2021 14:02:50 GMT -5
I’m fine with it. It was done as well as Hollyleaf’s or Blackstar’s, and way better than Needletail’s. If I’m supposed to forgive those three, I can easily forgive Breezepelt. He’s clearly become a better Warrior, has a happy relationship, is loyal to his clan once again, and fixed his relationship with his family. He was an angry cat who made awful choices but who is becoming a better cat. To be honest, it’s not even a redemption really. Hardly anyone in Windclan actually forgave him and he was aware of that. The book literally showcased that Windclan as a whole didn’t trust him. Which is honestly better writing than the three cats mentioned before who are seen as heroes and who have also not ever owned up for their awful actions soooo. I completely agree with the fact that Hollyleaf, Blackstar and Needletail got off well despite their rather heinous acts. With Hollyleaf murdering a clanmate and trying to kill her own mother, Blackstar and also Leopardstar getting away with Stonefur's demise and Needletail betraying her Clan and Leader, these four cats were indeed very lucky when it came to being punished. Breezepelt also did at least one thing that still needs to be adressed (the Jayfeather and Poppyfrost situation) but he spend the majority of Crowfeather's Trial actually facing consequences or at least backlash for his actions. He also seems to have matured quite a bit but is still overall true to his difficult personality which is realistic.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jan 24, 2021 14:15:47 GMT -5
I’m fine with it. It was done as well as Hollyleaf’s or Blackstar’s, and way better than Needletail’s. If I’m supposed to forgive those three, I can easily forgive Breezepelt. He’s clearly become a better Warrior, has a happy relationship, is loyal to his clan once again, and fixed his relationship with his family. He was an angry cat who made awful choices but who is becoming a better cat. To be honest, it’s not even a redemption really. Hardly anyone in Windclan actually forgave him and he was aware of that. The book literally showcased that Windclan as a whole didn’t trust him. Which is honestly better writing than the three cats mentioned before who are seen as heroes and who have also not ever owned up for their awful actions soooo. I completely agree with the fact that Hollyleaf, Blackstar and Needletail got off well despite their rather heinous acts. With Hollyleaf murdering a clanmate and trying to kill her own mother, Blackstar and also Leopardstar getting away with Stonefur's demise and Needletail betraying her Clan and Leader, these four cats were indeed very lucky when it came to being punished. Breezepelt also did at least one thing that still needs to be adressed (the Jayfeather and Poppyfrost situation) but he spend the majority of Crowfeather's Trial actually facing consequences or at least backlash for his actions. He also seems to have matured quite a bit but is still overall true to his difficult personality which is realistic. Exactly why I’m alright with how it went. Breezepelt’s personality didn’t suddenly change. We just finally got a look at Windclan’s POV. Breezepelt is still snappy, still blunt and harsh, still easily angered, but his anger isn’t focused on his father anymore. He didn’t become some soft ooc cat in CT. But he fought the stoats, wanted to save his mother and clearly loved her deeply, made amends with both his father and with Lionblaze, but also was not forgiven by a majority of cats. Heck, Jayfeather considered letting him die, his clanmates hoped he would die, Crowfeather even thinks about if things would be better if his own son died, I’m pretty sure the only cats that actively supported Breezepelt were Heathertail, Nightcloud and Onestar, not really anyone else. I loved that hardly anyone forgave him and probably never will, and he wasn’t pleading for their forgiveness. It was realistic for his character.
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Villain Enjoyer
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 24, 2021 14:33:05 GMT -5
I completely agree with the fact that Hollyleaf, Blackstar and Needletail got off well despite their rather heinous acts. With Hollyleaf murdering a clanmate and trying to kill her own mother, Blackstar and also Leopardstar getting away with Stonefur's demise and Needletail betraying her Clan and Leader, these four cats were indeed very lucky when it came to being punished. Breezepelt also did at least one thing that still needs to be adressed (the Jayfeather and Poppyfrost situation) but he spend the majority of Crowfeather's Trial actually facing consequences or at least backlash for his actions. He also seems to have matured quite a bit but is still overall true to his difficult personality which is realistic. Exactly why I’m alright with how it went. Breezepelt’s personality didn’t suddenly change. We just finally got a look at Windclan’s POV. Breezepelt is still snappy, still blunt and harsh, still easily angered, but his anger isn’t focused on his father anymore. He didn’t become some soft ooc cat in CT. But he fought the stoats, wanted to save his mother and clearly loved her deeply, made amends with both his father and with Lionblaze, but also was not forgiven by a majority of cats. Heck, Jayfeather considered letting him die, his clanmates hoped he would die, Crowfeather even thinks about if things would be better if his own son died, I’m pretty sure the only cats that actively supported Breezepelt were Heathertail, Nightcloud and Onestar, not really anyone else. I loved that hardly anyone forgave him and probably never will, and he wasn’t pleading for their forgiveness. It was realistic for his character. I can only agree with you once again although now I feel kind of bad for Breezepelt because while he did do some messed up stuff he did not actually end up killing anyone (let's just hope it stays that way and he doesn't suddenly start a murder spree). I'm also agreeing with you on the subject of Crowfeather abusing Breezepelt because emotional mistreatment can certainly be attributed to their relationship (as Crowfeather talked down to his son and ignored him a times) which probably wasn't Crowfeather's intention but he's nonetheless still responsible for it.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jan 24, 2021 14:40:16 GMT -5
Exactly why I’m alright with how it went. Breezepelt’s personality didn’t suddenly change. We just finally got a look at Windclan’s POV. Breezepelt is still snappy, still blunt and harsh, still easily angered, but his anger isn’t focused on his father anymore. He didn’t become some soft ooc cat in CT. But he fought the stoats, wanted to save his mother and clearly loved her deeply, made amends with both his father and with Lionblaze, but also was not forgiven by a majority of cats. Heck, Jayfeather considered letting him die, his clanmates hoped he would die, Crowfeather even thinks about if things would be better if his own son died, I’m pretty sure the only cats that actively supported Breezepelt were Heathertail, Nightcloud and Onestar, not really anyone else. I loved that hardly anyone forgave him and probably never will, and he wasn’t pleading for their forgiveness. It was realistic for his character. I can only agree with you once again although now I feel kind of bad for Breezepelt because while he did do some messed up stuff he did not actually end up killing anyone (let's just hope it stays that way and he doesn't suddenly start a murder spree). I'm also agreeing with you on the subject of Crowfeather abusing Breezepelt because emotional mistreatment can certainly be attributed to their relationship (as Crowfeather talked down to his son and ignored him a times) which probably wasn't Crowfeather's intention but he's still responsible for it nonetheless. I’m 100 percent in agreement that no amount of neglect or past misfortunes ever excuse attempted murder or attacking another cat. I also simply recognize that Breezepelt was subjected to awful family dynamics and clearly never was given the kind of praise and positive reinforcement that most other cats received from their parents. I can be unforgiving of Breezepelt’s actions while also being unforgiving of his parents, and in this case Crowfeather’s for not taking responsibility and using his emotional issues as a way to deflect responsibility as a father. I’m just glad now that Breezepelt does have a more stable family and cats who do actually recognize that he can be capable of good even if everyone else rightfully does not. I don’t want everyone in the Clan forgiving him, because they shouldn’t have to. So I liked that CT felt realistic in that sense.
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jan 24, 2021 22:49:21 GMT -5
I do sort of wish Breezepelt owned up to his actions at the Moonpool to Poppyfrost and Jayfeather. The Dark Forest cats were taking advantage of and manipulating him, but some sort of acknowledgment that it happened, and even some sort of apology, would have been nice. Instead, it's just... never brought up again, which is honestly quite weird in my opinion.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jan 24, 2021 23:00:05 GMT -5
I was honestly fine with it because at least a large amount of cats didn't forgive him. If you think about it, he only really got redeemed in like...the eyes of Crowfeather and Lionblaze
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Duskfire
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Post by Duskfire on Jan 25, 2021 0:19:31 GMT -5
His "redemption" was horribly done. All of his previous actions were swept under the rug with some half assed excuse. Having a rough childhood does not justify all the horrible shit you've done. I totally agree, and felt the same way when I was reading Crowfeathers Trial. It was like they just forgot about how mean Breezepelt had been to the 3, even going far enough to kill one of them. He cries and complains when he is not treated fairly, but then acts like a ****** when he gets the chance to be mean. I HATE HIM!
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jan 25, 2021 20:10:51 GMT -5
I also want to point out that another good thing about his redemption is that it brings up the fact that even if you apologize, the person you hurt isn't obligated to forgive you. I feel they showed this with the contrast between Lionblaze and Jayfeather.
Lionblaze was willing to forgive both Crowfeather and Breezepelt despite being harmed by both. While Jayfeather forgives neither, and I don't think he's shown as wrong for this either, because he's not.
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Post by finland on Jan 26, 2021 9:46:58 GMT -5
His redemption should have been him dying for his clan.
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