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Post by 𝓑𝐫𝐢𝐚𝐫 ♥ on Jan 13, 2021 13:15:24 GMT -5
Who, in your opinion, was the worst leader in Clan history? (Excluding Brokenstar because he, ya know, murdered kits... and that's hard to beat). Explain your reasoning a little bit.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 13, 2021 13:41:01 GMT -5
Ripplestar of ShadowClan was a complete disgrace.
He had the glorious idea to attack all the other clans at a gathering and was struck by lightning (StarClan).
What a pathetic fool.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Jan 13, 2021 14:27:26 GMT -5
Stoneteller and Darkstar of SkyClan come to mind.
Darkstar felt the need to create a whole new code just because his deputy was against him giving away territory. I don't think the Erins could even think of a good reason to make that code. That scene in CoTC really, really annoyed me.
Stoneteller literally was too stubborn to help his own Tribe.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jan 13, 2021 16:43:38 GMT -5
Surprised Ashfur hasn't been mentioned yet. He was a tyrant who abused members of the Clan and the warrior code, and demanded the unquestioned loyalty of the Clan on the basis that he was the Clan leader. He was awful.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 13, 2021 16:48:14 GMT -5
Rowanstar, Stoneteller, Brokenstar, Onestar, Mistystar, Tigerstar, Clear Sky, are probably the biggest offenders that come to mind imo.
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Post by 𝔯𝔞𝔟𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔱 on Jan 13, 2021 17:13:31 GMT -5
I have to object to anybody calling Clear Sky a bad leader. He’s just misunderstood!
All he wanted was what was best for his Clan. And sure, he definitely did a bad job of going about it, but he was always trying for his Clan.
I’m going to argue that Mistystar is an absolutely awful leader who really should’ve died a long time ago and quite frankly never should’ve been made leader in the first place. She has made a lot of flawed decisions, particularly in her old age, that have prevented RiverClan from being the best Clan they could be. After killing Darktail, Mistystar chooses to close RiverClan’s borders, even after criticizing Onestar for doing the exact same thing. I understand needing to heal after the significant damage Darktail and his Kin caused, but there was no need to close her borders to do so. Further, she stated that RiverClan would still be there if they were truly needed, but then almost decided not to allow Alderheart and the WindClan cats to collect watermint on the WindClan side of the border. RiverClan only returns to the other Clans after the other Clans save them from the fire, and even then asks them to help rebuild the RiverClan camp??
I’d argue that her worst decisions, and what truly makes her a bad leader, are her actions and decisions during The Broken Code so far. She follows the impostor almost blindly, agreeing to punish the codebreakers and even exiling her loyal medicine cat to punish her for “breaking the code” - basically because she was born outside of the Clan and doesn’t believe in StarClan, both of which are not explicitly against the code to begin with. After the battle, when it becomes clear that she was wrong to fight on the impostor’s side, she STILL chooses to exile her warriors that were fighting against the impostor. She refuses to attend the vigil to honor the cats who were killed in that battle.
Honestly, Mistystar is just awful and she really, really just needs to die.
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jan 13, 2021 18:14:05 GMT -5
Stoneteller. The dude was ready to throw away his whole tribe just because he'd given up. Pathetic. Glad he's dead now.
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Post by Altair on Jan 13, 2021 18:22:50 GMT -5
Clear Sky
how did his group in DOTC manage to not instantly collapse?
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 13, 2021 20:50:47 GMT -5
As bad as every other leader is, none of them ever murdered their own deputy. Leopardstar holds that unique distinction of being the only leader to be directly responsible for the death of her own deputy. And not just that, but also ordering the deaths of apprentices in her own clans and allowing her clan to be used and abused like a cheap slave by Shadowclan. She is far and beyond the biggest coward among the leaders; she's yellow in more ways besides her fur.
Raggedstar is another candidate for his horrific biases towards his son which directly paved the road for Brokenstar through negligence and favoritism.
Speaking of Shadowclan, Tigerstar wasn't good either. He made a deal with Bloodclan which very nearly destroyed Shadowclan as well through his recklessness and lust for power. Everyone warned him that doing so was dangerous, but he pressed on anyway. While he did rebuild Shadowclan, it doesn't make up for the fact that he nearly destroyed them in the immediate aftermath by getting Bloodclan involved.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 20:56:06 GMT -5
I'm in agreeance with Leopardstar for the reasons vectoring34 stated.
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Post by 𝔯𝔞𝔟𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔱 on Jan 13, 2021 22:32:36 GMT -5
As bad as every other leader is, none of them ever murdered their own deputy. Leopardstar holds that unique distinction of being the only leader to be directly responsible for the death of her own deputy. And not just that, but also ordering the deaths of apprentices in her own clans and allowing her clan to be used and abused like a cheap slave by Shadowclan. She is far and beyond the biggest coward among the leaders; she's yellow in more ways besides her fur. Raggedstar is another candidate for his horrific biases towards his son which directly paved the road for Brokenstar through negligence and favoritism. Speaking of Shadowclan, Tigerstar wasn't good either. He made a deal with Bloodclan which very nearly destroyed Shadowclan as well through his recklessness and lust for power. Everyone warned him that doing so was dangerous, but he pressed on anyway. While he did rebuild Shadowclan, it doesn't make up for the fact that he nearly destroyed them in the immediate aftermath by getting Bloodclan involved. Honestly, I’m disappointed in myself for not thinking of Leopardstar and Raggedstar at all, but I am 100% in agreement with your reasoning for those two. When it comes to Tigerstar, I don’t really count him for the same reasons I wouldn’t count Brokenstar - they are both obviously villains and were written to be horrible, evil characters, so they are obviously among the worst without any debate.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 13, 2021 23:10:02 GMT -5
As bad as every other leader is, none of them ever murdered their own deputy. Leopardstar holds that unique distinction of being the only leader to be directly responsible for the death of her own deputy. And not just that, but also ordering the deaths of apprentices in her own clans and allowing her clan to be used and abused like a cheap slave by Shadowclan. She is far and beyond the biggest coward among the leaders; she's yellow in more ways besides her fur. Raggedstar is another candidate for his horrific biases towards his son which directly paved the road for Brokenstar through negligence and favoritism. Speaking of Shadowclan, Tigerstar wasn't good either. He made a deal with Bloodclan which very nearly destroyed Shadowclan as well through his recklessness and lust for power. Everyone warned him that doing so was dangerous, but he pressed on anyway. While he did rebuild Shadowclan, it doesn't make up for the fact that he nearly destroyed them in the immediate aftermath by getting Bloodclan involved. Honestly, I’m disappointed in myself for not thinking of Leopardstar and Raggedstar at all, but I am 100% in agreement with your reasoning for those two. When it comes to Tigerstar, I don’t really count him for the same reasons I wouldn’t count Brokenstar - they are both obviously villains and were written to be horrible, evil characters, so they are obviously among the worst without any debate. Being a villain doesn't necessarily make you a terrible leader. Scourge, for example, while harsh, does seem to have been an inspiring and popular leader among the Bloodclanners and is remembered fondly even after his death. Tigerstar gets the ranking for it because his actions endangered Shadowclan and Brokenstar killed his own clanmates, not for general villainy.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 14, 2021 0:45:06 GMT -5
idk about the worst but onestar was a massively insecure prick who goaded several generations of his clan into unnecessary hostility and aggression sheerly because the dude thought assholery = invulnerability and respect. like go eat a rabbit and calm down.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Jan 14, 2021 1:30:31 GMT -5
*singsongy voice* ClEaR SkY HOW DID I FORGET HIM The dude literally suggested they kill kits! Kits!
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Post by Jaysnow on Jan 14, 2021 1:32:44 GMT -5
Some of these have been pointed out.
The two worst are easily Ashfur he does horrible things just to get back at his "ex". Stoneteller (TNP) was literally about to let his Tribe die because he was stubborn? Yikes.
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Post by Rio on Jan 14, 2021 5:55:05 GMT -5
Between Clear Sky and Rowanclaw for me.
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Post by Rainsplash on Jan 14, 2021 6:49:15 GMT -5
Raggedstar - Yknow, favoritism didn't help the future of his Clan. Stoneteller of TNP - Gee. He was about to give up his whole Tribe. Clear Sky - I have to say, he's not the perfect one. Onestar - Um, well, he wasn't the best, anyway. Mistystar - Her judgement isn't clear now. Leopardstar - She let her deputy die, and made a bad choice. A really bad one. Ripplestar - Tried to break the truce in the most impulsive way. Darkstarorsomething - Um, a tyrant rule? How did that get past the Clans' judgement, anyway?
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Post by fire on Jan 14, 2021 8:37:06 GMT -5
Technically, Skystar as a leader wasn't horrible. He knew how to get cats under his control and control their way of thinking through the way he ran the Clan. For reference, in Thunder Rising, Thunder hears Petal and I wanna say Leaf, talking about the new meeting that Clear Sky will be organizing later. They're hoping they're chosen for something (to go on a border patrol to extend territory I believe), and the way they talk about their other Clanmates and the way their priorities are set up, are due to Clear Sky's leadership, as well as them not being used to living in a Clan. Admittedly, it's not like Clear Sky was teaching them why living in Clan life could be beneficial.
The worst leaders would be cats like Raggedstar and Leopardstar.
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jan 14, 2021 11:50:19 GMT -5
Clear Sky how did his group in DOTC manage to not instantly collapse? I think he kept it together out of sheer spite and force of will, knowing Clear Sky.
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Post by tallshadowstar on Jan 14, 2021 14:16:54 GMT -5
Nightstar did his best with the hand he was dealt, but as an increasingly ill elder with no nine lives and a sick and starving Clan, his leadership was doomed from the start. Since he wasn't able to promote a new deputy before dying, he created a power vacuum that allowed Tigerstar to seize control of ShadowClan. Poor Nightstar
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Post by Fireleap on Jan 14, 2021 14:20:28 GMT -5
Raggedstar
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Post by platinum blond death on Jan 14, 2021 17:43:11 GMT -5
onestar: fairly obvious but dude was a jerk, refused to help another clan (which was dying of sickness), also caused general harm to his own clan because he refused to do anything about darktail.
ashfur: man's breaking the warrior code and also way too obsessed with squirrelflight.
rowanclaw: okay i know part of it isn't his fault but i mean shadowclan literally fell apart under him, and required his son to get it back up again. if that isn't bad leadership...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 14, 2021 18:18:58 GMT -5
Raggedstar - Yknow, favoritism didn't help the future of his Clan. Stoneteller of TNP - Gee. He was about to give up his whole Tribe. Clear Sky - I have to say, he's not the perfect one. Onestar - Um, well, he wasn't the best, anyway. Mistystar - Her judgement isn't clear now. Leopardstar - She let her deputy die, and made a bad choice. A really bad one. Ripplestar - Tried to break the truce in the most impulsive way.Darkstarorsomething - Um, a tyrant rule? How did that get past the Clans' judgement, anyway? It was actually because of him that the truce was even invented as he is part of the story in Code of the Clans that focuses on the reason for that particular rule to be made.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jan 14, 2021 19:18:06 GMT -5
Leopardstar
One bad decision after another, arrogant, obnoxious
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Post by Rainsplash on Jan 14, 2021 20:10:41 GMT -5
Raggedstar - Yknow, favoritism didn't help the future of his Clan. Stoneteller of TNP - Gee. He was about to give up his whole Tribe. Clear Sky - I have to say, he's not the perfect one. Onestar - Um, well, he wasn't the best, anyway. Mistystar - Her judgement isn't clear now. Leopardstar - She let her deputy die, and made a bad choice. A really bad one. Ripplestar - Tried to break the truce in the most impulsive way.Darkstarorsomething - Um, a tyrant rule? How did that get past the Clans' judgement, anyway? It was actually because of him that the truce was even invented as he is part of the story in Code of the Clans that focuses on the reason for that particular rule to be made. Oh, thanks. Then let me say: Was a sneaky, backstabbing creature.
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Post by Snowfire on Jan 16, 2021 21:23:02 GMT -5
Definitely Stoneteller from TNP
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2021 22:39:54 GMT -5
CLEAR SKYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY ( oh and rowanstar cause like he temporarily lost his clan to a gang of rouges. Lol. How humiliating)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2021 22:40:57 GMT -5
Definitely Stoneteller from TNP And through out the power of three
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