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Post by Fernshiine on Oct 21, 2020 20:22:23 GMT -5
I think there are some cats who should have been villains who weren't. Some were just wasted potential.
Needletail had a good redemption arc and all but I sometimes think she should've been a full villain, or at least more of an anti-hero than she was. I think she should have lived long enough to become someone who wanted revenge, possibly on the rogues who killed her mate. She was a pretty good anti-hero, though, so this is just an honorable mention.
Now:
Hollyleaf- She went insane and killed Ashfur and then proceeded to tell the secret of her parents to everyone in all the Clans. She was given a redemption arc and all but I personally would've liked it more if she had come out of the tunnels even more insane or, say, would've teamed up with Sol for some reason. I liked her as a villain. Even though her arc ended good and I liked it overall, I would've loved it if she had stayed in a state of mind after having to live without the warrior code that caused her to turn sour.
Ivypool- Ivypool is another cat who had a redemption arc of sorts. In my opinion her time as a Dark Forest trainee doesn't count as her being bad at all, since many good cats were led astray through it all. I would have loved to see her be an evil cat. A genuinely bad one like Breezepelt had been for a while, or a cat like Antpelt. Someone who took the Dark Forest side and stayed with it. She would have likely been exiled or mistrusted to the point of leaving the Clans, but it would have been cool too.
Leopardstar- She would've been better as a villain. She was always defensive and rather brash, so it would've made sense if she had just stayed a villain after Tigerstar recruited her, oh, and her entire Clan. She could've died there or could have been the next major villain for the series to have dealt with. Then again, she's getting her own Super Edition...so...
Mothwing- A cat turned aethiest by the cruelties of life with an evil brother. Boy, wasted potential right here. She gets boring after TNP in my honest opinion. Even when Jayfeather rats her out everyone is just like "Meh" about it.
Raggedstar- He was sort of...a bad dude, so he may as well have been a villain.
So who do you think should've been villains?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 21:02:47 GMT -5
idk the idea of villain mothwing makes me personally uncomfortable mostly because “character who is emotionally abused/manipulated turns evil” is a trope im pretty sick of and one that makes me really, really uncomfortable. also, i prefer the few atheists in this series to be not be turned into villain... and im also just rlly sick of evil tigerkin lol. hawkfrost being evil kind of annoyed me because it was like... yep. his parentage did matter. he was evil, with evil dna. everybody was right to judge him based on his father. what the hell.
needletails “redemption” was bad and i preferred her as an antagonist.
i wish theyd done more with breezepelt as an antagonist. im kind of hoping hes just faking his redemption so we have have evil breezestar in the future (maybe even give protagonist pov to one of his offspring?).
clear sky remaining a villain wouldve been cool, i like the idea of one of the clan founders just straight up being evil. also wouldve been interesting given skyclans later exile from the forest territories and their eventual return.
raggedstar was straight up trash, they shouldve fully leaned into that.
anti villain sparkpelt wouldve been cool for the latter half of avos
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Post by Fernshiine on Oct 21, 2020 21:26:11 GMT -5
idk the idea of villain mothwing makes me personally uncomfortable mostly because “character who is emotionally abused/manipulated turns evil” is a trope im pretty sick of and one that makes me really, really uncomfortable. also, i prefer the few atheists in this series to be not be turned into villain... and im also just rlly sick of evil tigerkin lol. hawkfrost being evil kind of annoyed me because it was like... yep. his parentage did matter. he was evil, with evil dna. everybody was right to judge him based on his father. what the hell. needletails “redemption” was bad and i preferred her as an antagonist. i wish theyd done more with breezepelt as an antagonist. im kind of hoping hes just faking his redemption so we have have evil breezestar in the future (maybe even give protagonist pov to one of his offspring?). clear sky remaining a villain wouldve been cool, i like the idea of one of the clan founders just straight up being evil. also wouldve been interesting given skyclans later exile from the forest territories and their eventual return. raggedstar was straight up trash, they shouldve fully leaned into that. anti villain sparkpelt wouldve been cool for the latter half of avos Eh. I think Sparkpelt should've died because I'm...like that. I dunno. I think she had wasted potential and wouldn't have been good as either a hero or a villain. Plus there didn't need to be more kits in her Clan, as much as I loved her interactions with Larksong.
Raggedstar being a villain would've been better leeway for Brokenstar's downfall.
Needletail...I dislike her redemption lol.
SKYSTAR THO YES. It would've given SkyClan a reason to be disliked and forgotten by the Clans.
I also forgot Mothwing was Tigerstar's daughter but, like, he couldn't have contacted her I guess.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Oct 22, 2020 0:34:09 GMT -5
Evil Star Flower! I might have liked her if she had been evil.
Evil Clear Sky!
Evil Spottedleaf!
Evil StarClan in general!
Evil Stoneteller!
Evil Hollyleaf!
Evil Ivypool!
Evil Needletail!!
Evil Breezepelt!!!
Evil Spiresight!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 0:35:03 GMT -5
Evil Star Flower! I might have liked her if she had been evil. Evil Clear Sky! Evil Spottedleaf! Evil StarClan in general! Evil Stoneteller! Evil Hollyleaf! Evil Ivypool! Evil Needletail!! Evil Breezepelt!!! Evil Spiresight!!!! omg i cant believe i forgot star flower, i wouldve adored her character had she been an outright manipulative villain
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Post by Brindlefern on Oct 22, 2020 2:02:24 GMT -5
How about no and we keep the few atheist clan cat characters we have (even if Moth technically isn't anymore but still) UNvillanized/demonized thanks. Plus all of what Nettle said... Plus plus Jayfeather "ratting her out" literally did not matter by that point because she already started believing in Starclan's existence then. What are they gonna do about that, now that what he claimed of her in his being-an-assness is rendered moot?
You want an atheist villain Sol's right there. :T
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 22, 2020 5:52:50 GMT -5
Violetshine and Twigbranch Tawnypelt and Mothwing Ivypool and Hollyleaf
I'm sensing a pattern.
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Post by Rio on Oct 22, 2020 6:27:40 GMT -5
I'd legit be so mad if they made Needletail, literally the only morally grey character in the entire 77 book series, into a straight up villain.
I do think Star Flower and Sparkpelt could have been really interesting antagonists tho.
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Post by vectoring34 on Oct 22, 2020 9:30:11 GMT -5
I'd legit be so mad if they made Needletail, literally the only morally grey character in the entire 77 book series, into a straight up villain. I do think Star Flower and Sparkpelt could have been really interesting antagonists tho. The only one? Hardly. She doesn't hold a monopoly on abusing her family figures and then attempting to make amends.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 9:53:03 GMT -5
I'd legit be so mad if they made Needletail, literally the only morally grey character in the entire 77 book series, into a straight up villain. I do think Star Flower and Sparkpelt could have been really interesting antagonists tho. The only one? Hardly. She doesn't hold a monopoly on abusing her family figures and then attempting to make amends. “attempting” as if she didnt just blame rowanstar for everything and call it a day
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Post by vectoring34 on Oct 22, 2020 10:21:32 GMT -5
The only one? Hardly. She doesn't hold a monopoly on abusing her family figures and then attempting to make amends. “attempting” as if she didnt just blame rowanstar for everything and call it a day Yes, attempting, which even then she doesn't hold a monopoly on. Rainflower exists in that bracket too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 11:40:27 GMT -5
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Post by crowspirit on Oct 22, 2020 12:53:44 GMT -5
Lionblaze, Jayfeather and Hollyleaf all could have been evil.
Lionblaze ragdolling and murdering everyone and everything he sees with his powers (I saw a very nice AU about this yesterday, even though his powers were more extreme there.)
Jayfeather being pissed as **** that he can't be a warrior, so he just poisons everyone out of spite.
And a lawful evil Hollyleaf punishing everyone who breaks the code, maybe even with death.
Evil Ivypool is also a nice option, but it's pretty overdone by now. I've seen a lot of evil Ivypool AUs lately.
Either Feathertail or Stormfur killing Leopardstar for nearly getting them killed during Tigerstar's reign. I've done my own AU where Feathertail does it and also destroys the tribe by simply leaving them to die, as revenge for them holding her brother captive. She also works together with evil Mothwing ;] Evil Spottedleaf is also overdone but I still like it.
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Post by sparkstrike on Oct 22, 2020 15:17:20 GMT -5
Evil! Lionblaze would have been really cool, especially with his powers. Tigerstar's manipulation would obviously come into play and would make for a very powerful and aggressive villain.
Evil! Hollyleaf would have been great too during her breakdown. I can imagine her completely losing it and killing Leafpool and Squirrelflight after the secret is revealed.
Evil! Whitestorm was featured in Sad Machines "Mary Did You Know?" And I loved the concept. It reminded me of a "blue-eyes white Tigerstar" AU I saw where Tigerstar was Snowfur and Thistleclaw's son.
A few others that I think sound cool would be Evil! Spottedleaf and Evil!Violetshine or Twigbranch because it would have made their characters more interesting imo.
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Post by vectoring34 on Oct 22, 2020 15:44:25 GMT -5
Evil! Lionblaze would have been really cool, especially with his powers. Tigerstar's manipulation would obviously come into play and would make for a very powerful and aggressive villain. Evil! Hollyleaf would have been great too during her breakdown. I can imagine her completely losing it and killing Leafpool and Squirrelflight after the secret is revealed. Evil! Whitestorm was featured in Sad Machines "Mary Did You Know?" And I loved the concept. It reminded me of a "blue-eyes white Tigerstar" AU I saw where Tigerstar was Snowfur and Thistleclaw's son. A few others that I think sound cool would be Evil! Spottedleaf and Evil!Violetshine or Twigbranch because it would have made their characters more interesting imo. Being evil does not automatically make a terrible character interesting. Case in point, the hollow, dull void that makes up the DOTC villains.
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Bisexual
#64C7FF
Name Colour
finland
Porgs are love
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Post by finland on Oct 22, 2020 15:47:30 GMT -5
Hawkheart: I think that the Erins had intended him to be an evil medicine cat, but ended up not going through with it.
Hollyleaf
Spottedleaf
Ivypool
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 22, 2020 22:15:35 GMT -5
Evil Star Flower should have existed.
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Post by andy on Oct 23, 2020 0:27:37 GMT -5
jumping on the evil star flower train. it could've been really cool
i know it's an older one, but the evil spottedleaf thing was something i liked, too
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Post by Fernshiine on Oct 24, 2020 18:41:02 GMT -5
Evil! Lionblaze would have been really cool, especially with his powers. Tigerstar's manipulation would obviously come into play and would make for a very powerful and aggressive villain. Evil! Hollyleaf would have been great too during her breakdown. I can imagine her completely losing it and killing Leafpool and Squirrelflight after the secret is revealed. Evil! Whitestorm was featured in Sad Machines "Mary Did You Know?" And I loved the concept. It reminded me of a "blue-eyes white Tigerstar" AU I saw where Tigerstar was Snowfur and Thistleclaw's son. A few others that I think sound cool would be Evil! Spottedleaf and Evil!Violetshine or Twigbranch because it would have made their characters more interesting imo. If 2 out of the 3 kits of Leafpool had been evil that would have been interesting, and would perhaps have made StarClan question the prophecy at hand (even though they didn't create it). That would likely have made Ivypool to be the third, leaving Jayfeather with her and Dovewing to partner with.
Even if either Hollyleaf or Lionblaze became evil, only one of them, that would've added more depth to their story as each of them had reasoning to do so. Lionblaze's powers and Tigerstar's influence would have done wonders for him being an antagonist! I would have loved to see him go through with it.
Evil Whitestorm would be okay, but for some reason I can't think of too many motives at the moment. Granted, the Sad Machine AU makes him evil because he dislikes Bluestar a hella ton, which would make sense.
Spottedleaf would also be a good candidate, as she had a terrible time accepting her death. If you believe in ghosts or even study them, you'd know in real life a spirit who didn't accept their death is restless and somewhat hostile. If the ghost thing had existed in earlier books, I have no doubt she would have decided to stay one forever, or for until she felt comfortable with her life and death. She could easily have been evil.
Violetshine and Twigbranch both are good candidates and both have separate motives that could have made either one of them a good villain.
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