#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 25, 2020 14:13:34 GMT -5
Thistleclaw was terrible even way back in BP, so needless to say, I've never liked him. He was a jerk even before Sweetpaw and Snowfur died, and he only ended up getting worse. Bluestar also had no obligation to accept him either if he wasn't giving her any reason to. Actually, Bluestar had no choice but to keep him in Thunderclan because she needed to keep an eye on her enemy. Obviously? I never said anything about her banishing him, I just meant she didn't have to like him.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Oct 25, 2020 14:49:56 GMT -5
Thistleclaw has always deserved the dark forest, even before the novella that "ruined his character."
He was proved to be dangerous from the start. Even more so than his mentor, Adderfang. We see him training in the dark forest in Crookedstar's Promise, then Goosefeather and Bluefur share a vision of him covered in blood. We see he abuses any power he gets his paws on, like almost killing Oakheart when he trespasses in TC territory, kicks Bluefur when she's expecting, he says that borders need to be marked with the blood of their enemies...
And also, even before Spottedleaf's Heart, he's always been dangerous around young cats. Manipulating Tigerpaw to become as violent as him (And not moving a whisker when Tigerpaw could have killed Tiny), and making it obvious he was going to do the same to Whitepaw.
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Post by jayfeather1234 on Oct 26, 2020 7:35:46 GMT -5
Actually, Bluestar had no choice but to keep him in Thunderclan because she needed to keep an eye on her enemy. Obviously? I never said anything about her banishing him, I just meant she didn't have to like him. Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant before.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 11:02:53 GMT -5
Thistleclaw has always deserved the dark forest, even before the novella that "ruined his character." He was proved to be dangerous from the start. Even more so than his mentor, Adderfang. We see him training in the dark forest in Crookedstar's Promise, then Goosefeather and Bluefur share a vision of him covered in blood. We see he abuses any power he gets his paws on, like almost killing Oakheart when he trespasses in TC territory, kicks Bluefur when she's expecting, he says that borders need to be marked with the blood of their enemies... And also, even before Spottedleaf's Heart, he's always been dangerous around young cats. Manipulating Tigerpaw to become as violent as him (And not moving a whisker when Tigerpaw could have killed Tiny), and making it obvious he was going to do the same to Whitepaw. I genuinely cannot understand why people still deny this. There's literally evidence everywhere in the book but they won't listen because it's from "Bluefur's biased PoV".
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 26, 2020 11:18:48 GMT -5
i don't think swallow is ever confirmed to be his mate, just a friend. that being said, it was still a free choice on antpelt's part to relish destroying the clans. he's noted to be preeetty into it really quickly after his death. maybe he didn't fit in well in windclan, but that doesn't mean he couldn't go to starclan--he made that judgement for himself, it seems. That's the weird part though. He risked his life to save Ivypool, I don't think it makes any sense if he's meant to be such a gung-ho supporter. And even after his death, it does sound like he felt he had no choice in going to Starclan. If Beetlewhisker is any indication, then he was right, and dying there taints you. he didn't die there like beetlewhisker, though. he woke up and pretty much bled out. you can chalk it up to bad characterization, maybe, but he is shown being pretty supportive of the DF's plan. in night whispers (before he died) ivypool notes that his eyes were "shining with pleasure" when they talked about destroying the clans. i think it's implied that antpelt had a hard time fitting in with his clan or something, so he was bitter with them. i think saying he "risked his life to save ivypool" is a bit much. she fell of the logs during the training session and he waited a second for her to get up before he re-attacked. she wasn't in a life-or-death situation and i doubt he knew thistleclaw was going to maul him for it. i am sympathetic to whatever social issues he may have had in windclan. however, it's implied that starclan did not know which cats were training in the dark forest, and there were several cats who legitimately believed they were doing it to help their clan. i think antpelt assumed starclan wouldn't accept him, just like his clanmates did not, and preferred to be amongst the cats that had shown him camaraderie. that, and he wanted the destruction of the clans, so maybe he didn't like starclan to begin with. it's sad what led him to it, but antpelt ultimately had to have made the choice himself.
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Post by halogen on Oct 27, 2020 18:30:27 GMT -5
It's weird how people only just Thistleclaw/Antpelt by their actions when they were alive but whenever a Mapleshade debate appears people argue that her actions in the DF with Crookedstar destroy any remaining sympathy for her. You see that with StarClan cats too, where some cats (Moth Flight!) are hated because of how they acted after death but for others people only focus on their actions while alive (e.g most people don't like how Bluestar acts in StarClan, but her justifying SkyClan's exile is never brought up in debates about her, only her actions while alive, or how everyone thought how Gray Wing acted at the end of Shadowstar's Life was stupid but no one hates Gray Wing because of it). I don't think a single soul on the planet has made or broken their opinion on Mapleshade based on her DF appearances. It has never been mentioned in the countless threads about her morality, and I'm not entirely sure where you're getting that this is some common thing. I've actually seen it quite a lot. Many people say they used to think Mapleshade was sympathetic because she cared for her kits, but then how she treated Crookedstar proved she didn't care for them at all, just her revenge.
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Post by vectoring34 on Oct 27, 2020 19:21:19 GMT -5
I don't think a single soul on the planet has made or broken their opinion on Mapleshade based on her DF appearances. It has never been mentioned in the countless threads about her morality, and I'm not entirely sure where you're getting that this is some common thing. I've actually seen it quite a lot. Many people say they used to think Mapleshade was sympathetic because she cared for her kits, but then how she treated Crookedstar proved she didn't care for them at all, just her revenge. If you say so. But given that the majority of discussions on her morality are entirely over events in Mapleshade's Vengeance, I doubt it's very common.
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