Post by Stαrchαser ミ☆ on Aug 29, 2020 17:19:49 GMT -5
Amber Added all the Heavenly lore! Which was all amazing and intriguing, might I add. Just edited any spelling errors I saw and split some pieces into several paragraphs, just cause me and my poor eyesight finds it easier to read.
I tried to put everything under what I thought was the proper section, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'll also edit and add anything else you want later on.
Yay! Just checked it out and it looks great. There's still more I want to add, but for now I'll give myself a break. I had so much fun coming up with it, though I must admit I did take heavy inspiration for the currency from one of my favorite series. Also, thanks for correcting errors. I have dyslexia and I can only really do things on my phone, so no matter how many time I may looking something over, thing are still bound to slip through. Also splitting everything into easier to read paragraphs is for the best. Makes thing easier to read.
Anyway, it looks good. I think everything fits with the section you put it under. Also, I just put whatever came to my head for the relarions to other families, so if you want to change or add anything with the foreign relations, feel free to do so.
This is what it looks like. To make things easier, I would go in and to the one below first and change the name, the quote, and the symbols. Just like a regular code, you can edit the colors of the text without manually doing it in code. The background color, the pictures, and the dotted outline will all need to be addressed within the code. I would recommend going to the BBcode tab after you have done all the text changes and then start playing around with the colors.
This is the background color code line and the # can be changed to anything.
[div style="width:520px;margin:auto;padding:20px;background-color:#3b3630;"] This is the pictures and the dotted line code. Change the img src first and make sure the picture looks good. Since the borders are rounded, some pictures stretch oddly. Next, change the rgb color of the dotted outline. This might take some extra work. When I first made this code, I did it in Hex which is the #000000 version, but for some reason, the code changed to rbg. You can look up hex to rbg online so find a color you like and then plug in the three numbers into the spaces.
Post by Stαrchαser ミ☆ on Sept 24, 2020 21:25:20 GMT -5
Oh, wow, guess who finally decided to do some worldbuilding. I actually pretty pleased with what I've got so far, but there's still a lot I need to work on and flesh out. If anyone's interested though, there's some stuff about Mages for you to read now.
Post by Stαrchαser ミ☆ on Oct 26, 2020 21:19:50 GMT -5
mossecho Me, looking through your posts: yeah idk what "progressively worse" you're speaking of.
Yes, sadly I get that way about four minutes into my school-related writing assignments. Meanwhile I will take as much care as possible to attempt crafting a decent roleplay reply. But editing college essays? Miss me with that.
Post by ѕнσσт ƒσя тнє ѕтαяѕ on Oct 28, 2020 13:18:46 GMT -5
Ok, so I’ve had this idea for a mage that I want to create for a while. Actually, it came one night when I was telling my friend about our rp because she loves worldbuilding so she was eating everything we had up. Anyways, I was telling her how the mage system works and mentioned that most mages need something like a wand or heck even a bat to be able to channel Anima and those that can give a random object power are Enchanters. And as I mentioned the bat, she laughed and we started on this discussion of a bat wielding mage just wrecking an entire area of town. So here’s my idea: an enchanter mage that has a Louisville Slugger covered in spells as a wand. I just find it so funny that a mage (can’t decide if I want a guy or girl) would come waltzing into town or battle one day and just pull out this whole bat and start swinging to cast their spells. XD)
Post by Stαrchαser ミ☆ on Oct 28, 2020 15:17:13 GMT -5
ѕнσσт ƒσя тнє ѕтαяѕ You mean to tell me you don't live in constant fear of someone finding out that one of your hobbies/guilty pleasures is roleplaying on a fictional cat forum? Cause I admire you greatly. As someone whose parents and siblings mocked them pretty heavily back when I joined the OG forums back as an even more socially awkward, friendless older kid/pre-teen, I refuse to ever divulge the fact that I rejoined them out of a desperate attempt to produce enough serotonin to keep my dumb brain going. I mean, it got me through middle school, why not college?
Also, can you PLEASE do that xD? Even when I was first writing the wands section up, I was plotting a character that would use either a 9-iron golf club, crowbar, or hockey stick as their "conductor." With that in mind, would it be alright if I propose a Mage gang-esque group? None of them have real wands, just objects that can be used as weapons, both magically and the good ole fashioned way. Oh, you're low on magic? No worries, just start swinging at the enemies instead.
I had a lot of ideas though... like a musically-inclined Mage using their violin bow or drum sticks or something. Or someone forgetting their wand and being like "damn, I guess my umbrella will have to do for now." And little kids before getting their wands just picking up random sticks they find and going crazy with their friends. I just overall find all the different possibilities really amusing.
Amber I try, although I'm well-aware I've gone overboard with the whole memes thing. Can't be helped when your sense of humor is as trashed as mine.
EDIT: So I only just now realized how little I've put for you to do with Crispen's response and I am so sorry. If you need me to, I can go back and edit it, I don't mind.
Post by ѕнσσт ƒσя тнє ѕтαяѕ on Nov 4, 2020 11:59:34 GMT -5
Nah, my friend is chill and she RPs on discord a lot so not with her. With some people there is a fear that they might think i'm weird, but honestly... I think I don't care much anymore about what people think about me. XD RPing is fun and it's a chance to put my ideas on paper and talk with friends so if people want to be mean about that, then thats on them.
I'm totally gonna do it now. XD I think I'll work on a rp code despite the fact I might not use it in the future. A gang of mages would be SOOO much fun! I would love for someone to just roll up with a hairdryer or something. It's all fun and games until someone gets blasted by a flame-throwing/storm-bringer hairdryer. XD
what stuff do we have about the vampire language? I remember most of my ideas about it, but I don't remember much of what anyone else came up with. Stαrchαser ミ☆, did you come up with anything with that program of yours? just want to make sure I don't come up with anything that runs contrary to the ideas we already have.
Post by Stαrchαser ミ☆ on Dec 17, 2020 22:23:40 GMT -5
mossecho I didn't really have any vampire language headcanons because I didn't want to mess up anything you already had in mind. I know they're very formal and imagined them having a complex language compared to some of the others. We said it would probably be much closer to what their original languages were, since vampires are immortal and all. Their language has probably changed the least over the years and has less influence from the other Families. Of course, since they came from Shifters, maaaaybe they'd have some leftover traits from that, but I'm thinking Shifter language is already the most varied. Also, you mentioned Alex probably having an RP British accent or thick Scottish accent (I can't help but imagine British Alex, but it's your character obviously ).
Somewhat unrelated, but I think we said Heavenlys sounds Russian, Shifters have a ton of different dialects, and I don't think we had anything for Infernals or Elementals yet. Mages have something akin to a French accent (but with its own ~flair~ (I just haven't figured out what that is yet)), I finally decided. Lilah specifically would be Standard French, given it's considered a prestige language. I have a rough Elemental language, but not sure what they'd sound like. For Infernals overall (though I was specifically thinking demons), I think their accents would be considered harsher. They'd have lots of closed syllables, coda clusters, dorsal consonants, voiced fricatives, stops, and back vowels. Probably plosives and glottal sounds as well. Infernals probably have a lot of language variation though, so vampires could sound however you want.
I hadn't tried much of anything out in Vulgar yet, aside from toying with the options. I was waiting to see what insight you had before I went wild with my phonemes and such. I kinda imagined it taking inspiration from various romance languages (mainly Romanian, Italian, and Spanish), but that's pretty much it. I was just going to model it after whatever input you had though. If you like, I can send you links to the pages of the languages I have so far, just so you can get an idea of the type of stuff I can create? And figure out how you want vampires to sound in relation to the others?
Ok, all that is pretty familiar. Thanks so much! I'm not very sure what Alex's accent should be (I like the idea of a very stereotypical, near-incomprehensibly-gruff Scottish accent, but idk if that would match their language best. I'm thinking that their language could have tones, so that would definitely impact his accent. It could still fit into the other languages (just tones seem like something that could be dropped a bit more easily, but honestly I could be very wrong about that).
If you could send me the links, I'd appreciate it!
Okay y'all, here is my thought dump for the vampires' language. I'm just putting it in a spoiler category because I imagine I'll have a lot of stuff to stay and... yeah. Be aware that everything is very rough, so I'll probably change this. Also I'll reference a bunch of linguistics stuff that I honestly don't understand very well, so my exact terminology may be off. So... yeah. idk, here it is, I guess?
from what little I know about making conlangs, people generally start off following structures similar to their native language(s), then learn about other languages' features and go crazy by incorporating way too much, and then mellow out. I'm in the go crazy stage rn (although probably following Indo-European features more than I think). I am taking a lot from Spanish and Russian, but there are a lot of linguistic features that I heard about and thought "oh that's cool!" so... expect craziness, I suppose.
also, I'm calling this language Vampiric for the time being. We can come up with a proper name later on, but this is just so I don't have to say "this language" or "the vampires' language" over and over.
Word order is SVO (subject, verb, object). The rest of this language will get a bit crazy, so this makes other stuff easier to follow. To start the crazies, it should be noted that because this is a language with cases, this word order is not fixed. SOV, OSV, VOS, etc. can all be grammatically correct, but they are not the default word order. Also, adjectives come after nouns (as they do in Spanish). The adjective order is the same as it is in English.
I really don't have much about the language's phonology, but it follows Spanish's sound system pretty closely (for now, at least). I'm adding a vowel (schwa, /ə/, it's my favorite) and maybe in the future there will be a few more consonants, but most of the phonology will be based on Spanish.
Vampiric has two main forms: Vulgar and High Vampiric. They are generally similar, but there are differences between the two that I will point out as I go. High Vampiric is used in formal settings (I know the vampires are basically always formal, whatever). "Formal settings" refers to basically everything related to the government. You'll hear High Vampiric in local town-council-esque meetings, in Clan meetings, in diplomatic conversations between Clan leaders, in the Capital, etc. Vulgar Vampiric is for basically everything else. Using the wrong form is considered extremely rude.
High and Vulgar Vampiric are lingua francas. Back when vampires did not have a single nation, but instead had various ethnic groups and little city-states (which later evolved into covens), they all spoke different languages. Over time, these languages diverged into younger, newer languages and become language families. Overtime, different language families became more or less commonly used. High Vampiric is an artificially constructed language based on the most powerful language family, the one spoken by the most powerful coven pre-Cataclysm. Unfortunately, that language family's speakers were all killed during the Cataclysm, so no one speaks it anymore. Anyhow, different language families are often completely mutually unintelligible, save the very occasional loanwords. As a result, something needed to become the informal lingua franca, since vampires care a lot about formality and you can't sell all high and mighty when buying stuff at market. So Vulgar Vampiric came along. It was the language spoken at the Capitol post-Cataclysm, so it became the informal lingua franca among all vampires. Of course, speakers from different regions will have distinct accents and may speak the same language differently (see: Alex and the yee-haw vampires), but it's like Scottish and American English speakers interacting, not American English and Mandarin Chinese speakers.
There are various regional and coven-specific languages. Yes, more and more languages. Vampiric (both High and Vulgar) are spoken across the nation, but there are regional lingua francas and languages that are only spoken within specific covens. Now, the languages spoken in different covens in the same region are normally intelligible, but they are still distinct languages (like how Italian and Spanish speakers can understand each other decently well, although they still speak different languages). These languages are considered low and highly informal, so they are only spoken within the community. That said, some regions' and covens' languages are more highly regarded (like how I mentioned "the language spoken at the Capitol post-Cataclysm" led to modern Vulgar Vampiric; that was because it was the highest-regarded regional language). All in all, the average vampire speaks three or four languages. Some speak even more (namely traders and regional- or national-level politicians, basically anyone who needs to travel), but three to four is the norm.
High Vampiric is a mostly agglutinative language. This means that it has specific morphemes with specific meanings, but each morpheme has only one corresponding meaning. For example, it will have morphemes for each case (see below for the cases) and number, but it does not have any morphemes that encode both case and number information. Languages that use morphemes that encode multiple meanings are called fusional or inflected languages. Spanish is an inflected language. In Spanish, the word "comían" basically means "they ate (continuously or for an extended period of time)." The root, "com-" indicates that the action is eating, while "-ían" communicates that this event was done by multiple people. It is also specific to the imperfect tense, so the action becomes something that happened continuously instead of just starting and ending. (That's an awful explanation, I'm sorry.) But you get the idea: one morpheme (-ían), lots of meaning. This is not how High Vampiric works. Instead, each morpheme has only one meaning. Now there are some exceptions (see tones and conjugation), but generally this is how it works. So instead of "comían" breaking into "com-ían," it could break into "com-í--an", where "com-" was the root for "to eat," "-í-" indicated the imperfect tense, and "-an" indicated third person plural. Think of it like morpheme... slots, I guess. I haven't thought a lot about the order of morphemes, but I'm thinking it will go something like this: [honorific]-[root]-[negation]-[number indication]-[grammatical case]-[location case]-[formality indication]-[secondary honorific]. This is not comprehensive. A lot of these morpheme slots can be excluded or included depending on context. So this is how nouns work, basically. I haven't thought about adjectives yet. Also, the big thing that is not agglutinative is verbs. They are fusional. This is because I want to preserve a major grammatical similarity to Spanish so... here we are. Verbs are fusional, everything else is agglutinative.
Vulgar Vampiric is... not very agglutinative. High Vampiric has been very highly regulated and preserved (basically everyone is like "we need to speak properly, we can't change anything, no slang is allowed, grrr kids these days will ruin the language"), but Vulgar Vampiric was left to do whatever it wanted. As a result, it underwent a ton of sound changes. So originally, Vulgar Vampric had a lot of different affixes, just like High Vampiric. It was very agglutinative. But as more and more sound changes came into the mix, these affixes became so different from their original forms that they meshed into each other, formed entirely unique endings, and suddenly you have a highly inflected language. More than that, these inflections rarely show any resemblance to each other. Different verbs can have entirely different forms of conjugation, purely because the verb stems had different sounds before the sound changes occur.
Basic tenses: Far past, recent past, present, future. I don't know of any languages that distinguish between the far and recent past, but I like the idea. It goes well with vampires. Also, the difference between "far past" and "recent past" are relative. So something might be recent past for one vampire but far past for another. There are some intricacies with tense (explained below, under evidentiality), but these are the basic tenses.
The present tense is probably the most complicated, since it can also be used for the recent past and future. It's more like "the time around this moment" as opposed to "right now." For example, let's say you are reading a book, and then a friend interrupts to ask what you are doing. You put the book down and say "I am reading." Well, you're not actually reading in that exact moment, right? But you are reading in that close time period. As such, the present tense isn't "this precise moment." This is how Vampiric views the present tense. It's what's happening around now.
Tense is indicated via verb conjugation, although there are also independent tense markers (and there is a set of conjugations that are entirely tenseless). The auxiliary tense marker is optional.
Aspect. Vampiric, as well as most vampire languages, goes crazy with aspect. I haven't actually decided anything yet, but... it will get nuts. mwahaha. I'm not planning on going as crazy as Navajo, but expect some weird stuff.
Cases. Vampiric has a lot of cases. Many of these are locative, but there are also some grammatical cases. Locative cases basically do what a preposition would do (it's like saying "I walk a house-into" instead of "I walk into a house"). I haven't come up with a comprehensive list, but I'm thinking they would have a case for each Spanish preposition (I'm just going off of Spanish since so many of their names are from Spanish). So they would have a unique case for prepositions like "a," "en," "hacia," "sobre," etc. ("to/at," "in/on/at," "until/toward," "about/on/upon/above/over/around") (thanks SpanishDict for the translations). They also have some grammatical cases: nominative, accusative, ergative, absolutive, genitive, dative, and instrumental (see below, ergativity-absolutivity vs nominativity-accusativity). Genitive marks when someone possesses something (i.e. "the book of John" becomes "the book John-[genitive marker]"). Dative indicates the indirect object (i.e. "John gives the book to Jane" becomes "John gives the book Jane-[dative marker]). Instrumental case shows when something was used to complete an action (i.e. "John wrote the book with a pencil" becomes "John wrote the book pencil-[instrumentive marker]). To clarify, those examples ignored other grammatical inflections and declensions and the like, only focusing on the specific case being demonstrated. As you can see, case markers are always placed at the end of a word. The grammatical cases that I gave examples for (genitive, dative, instrumental) are based on Russian cases. In Russian, they also have some extra meanings (for example, the genitive case is also used for negation). I might incorporate these later, but for now let's go with the simpler examples. The nominative, accusative, ergative, and absolutive cases are discussed below, under ergativity-absolutivity vs nominativity-accusativity.
Ergativity-absolutivity vs nominativity-accusativity. This is the main distinction between Vulgar and High Vampiric. It is easily the most complicated, hard-to-understand (for me, at least) thing on this list. Allow me to oversimplify something that I really don't understand that well (by basically rephrasing what I read on Wikipedia and Quora, heheh, great sources). To start, intransitive verbs don't have direct objects, but transitive verbs do. So let's say I have three different nouns: subjects of intransitive verbs (S), agents of transitive verbs (A), and objects of transitive verbs (O). Here are two examples: 1. I (S) jump. 2. Jack (A) draws Rose (O). The first sentence has an intransitive verb, the second sentence has a transitive verb. In a nominative-accusative, like English and most Indo-European languages, S and A have the same case (nominative) while O is in the accusative case. In some other languages (like Basque), S and O are in the same case (absolutive) and A is in the ergative case. Somehow through some weird happening in Vampiric's evolution that would probably never actually happen, Vulgar and High Vampiric split across these distinctions. High Vampiric follows the ergative-absolutive model (so it has the ergative and absolutive cases) while Vulgar Vampiric follows the nominative-accusative model (so it has the nominative and accusative case). This is generally a simplified version. Please see below.
Fluid-S system. No language is entirely, 100% ergative-absolutive or nominative-accusative. High Vampiric follows the fluid-s system (it is a subset of the split-s system, which I will explain), so they treat the subject differently. A split-s system treats the subject of a sentence (S) differently depending on volition. As a reminder, ergative-absolutive systems group the subject (S) and the object (O) together, whereas the subject (S) and the agent (A) are grouped together in nominative-accusative languages. In the split-s system, the subject (S) can switch from being grouped with an object (O) to being grouped with the agent (A). In other words, the system switches from ergative-absolutive to nominative-accusative. This happens with intransitive verbs when the speaker has no volition. For example, let's look at the verbs "to slip" and "to slide." When someone slips, they generally did not intend on slipping. They had no volition, they just... did it. On the other hand, "to slide" implies that the person meant to slide. They had volition. So if we have the sentences "John (S) slips" and "John (S) slides," a non-split-s system would say these as "John (S-O) slips" and "John (S-O) slides" (here, the notation (S-O) shows that (S) and (O) are grouped together, whereas (S-A) groups (S) and (A)). But in a split-s system, these sentences would be "John (S-O) slips" and "John (S-A) slides" to reflect non-volition and volition, respectively. This means that you could eliminate one of these verbs from a language, because they describe the same action but differ in volition. Since we have another way of indicating volition, we do not need to have these two verbs. The fluid-s system takes this a bit further. Instead of only eliminating a verb if there is another verb that performs the same action, the fluid-s system can also add volition to verbs that otherwise don't have it. (Obviously there is no master list of verbs that languages pick and choose from, and this is an English-biased explanation, but it makes it easier for me to explain this and I hope you don't mind) Let's take the verb "to cry." Now, someone can cry without meaning to, but they can also purposefully cry (i.e. "fake-cry"). We don't have a built-in volition distinction here in English (well, we kind of do with "fake-cry," but whatever). However, a fluid-s system could distinguish these two. If we say "John (S-O) cries," then he did not do so deliberately. So if John's wife just told him that she didn't love him, we would say that "John (S-O) cries," because it is an involuntary reaction. But if John is an actor and is crying because it is part of a scene, then it becomes "John (S-A) cries." In High Vampiric, the fluid-s system differentiates volition because (S-O) is the "standard" alignment (again, High-Vampiric is ergative-absolutive.
This fluid-s system also appears in Vulgar Vampiric, although it indicates sympathy more than volition. Because (S-A) is the default grouping here, (S-O) is a purposeful choice to portray the subject as the unfortunate sufferer of an action. To demonstrate this, let's return to the construction "John (S-O) cries." In High Vampiric, this shows that John did not purposefully cry. In Vulgar Vampiric, it also shows that he had no volition, but it portrays this sympathetically. Vulgar Vampiric could construct "John cries" as "John (S-A) cries" or "John (S-O) cries" in this case, regardless of his volition. The (S-O) construction emphasizes his lack of volition, thus demonstrating the speaker's sympathy/empathy for John. In other words, Vulgar Vampiric uses the fluid-s system to express sympathy. The (S-O) construction implies a lack of volition, but it does so in a sympathetic context. If the speaker does not want to demonstrate their sympathy for John's involuntary action, then they would use the (S-A) construction. Complicated? Yes. Unnecessary and over the top? Yeah. Am I still incorporating this? Yep! (also, please note that I based this system on what little I understand from watching a YouTube video and reading a Wikipedia page, so the linguistics of this is iffy) (not to say it is wrong by default, but it is just probably not 100% right)
Evidentiality. This is when languages incorporate how the speaker knows that something happened. For Vampiric, evidentiality reflects "the nature of the evidence supporting a statement" (quoting Wikipedia's description of "type II" evidentiality). This means there are markers for personally witnessed, reportative (both heresay and quotative), assumed, and inferred information. Personally witnessed information is broken into two subcategories: olfactory and nonolfactory. So if a vampire smelled something, they will use one marker. If the information was not acquired via their smell (i.e. they saw it happen or heard a conversation), they will use a different marker. Additionally, evidentiality can be applied to the past tense. If the speaker uses the personally witnessed marker with the tense marker (by convention they use the nonolfactory marker, although it is grammatically correct to use the olfactory one), they are indicating that the event happened during their life time. So when used with a verb, the personal witness marker indicates how the information was acquired. When used with a tense marker, it indicates if the event happened during their lifetime. Only very old vampires (i.e. those with mostly- or all-gray hair) can use the far past and the personal marker together, but this is a social convention and not a grammatical rule. In Vulgar Vampiric, evidentiality is optional. However, its usage is mandatory in High Vampiric.
Smell is very important in Vampiric. If any of you know about the conlang Aramteskan (made by Lauren Gawne in collaboration with P.M. Freestone, highly recommend Googling it), Vampiric's relationship with smell is based on this language. It is not *as* extreme as Aramteskan, but it heads in that direction. Because vampires' primary sense is smell, their language uses smell as opposed to sight a lot. They have a lot of words for different smells and types of smells (so they have a word for the smell of something repulsive, another for a pleasant sweet smell, another for the smell of something that is way too sweet to be pleasant, tons of word for different smells of blood, etc.). A lot of their sayings relate to smell too. To steal something from Aramteskan, vampires don't "face forward" but are "nose forward." They also do not distinguish between "smell" and "taste" (they know the difference, obviously, but they do not have a difference for these experiences in their language). They also have more verbs relating to smell (i.e. to smell something in general (so it's not purposeful, like if you walked into a room and just smelled something in the air without meaning to smell something), to purposefully smell something, to seek something by smelling, to smell something for a long time, etc).
Generally lots of sense-related words. Because vampires have some of, if not the, most developed senses, they experience everything very vividly and have a ton of words for each sense. There are still more smell-related words than words associated with anything else, but you still get the idea. Their next best sense is hearing, so they have a lot of words for various sounds. I think the easiest way to think about these added sense words is in terms of colors (and vampires have a ton of color terms). In English, we make a distinction between red and light red (aka pink). In Russian, there is a distinction between light and dark blue. Now, it's not like English speakers cannot see this distinction (is a summer sky the same color as lapis lazuli?), we just don't make it linguistically. Vampiric is like this with other languages just... to the extreme. Lots of color terms. Part of it is because they have better vision so they can actually see more colors than some other species (like the difference between tetrachromats and the rest of us), most of it is because they just... like categorizing things. So yay, more color words, more sound words. There is one big exception though: taste-related words. Vampires really don't have any unique taste words. They describe the taste of blood, the only thing they really consume, by using their taste vocabulary. So while everyone else can describe things as "sweet" or "umame" or whatever, vampires don't have any of those words.
Vowel harmony. I would like this language to have vowel harmony, but I kinda screwed myself by naming the first vampire character "Alexander Rojas Lopez." Vowel harmony is where vowels match each other within a word, so you can see why "Alexander Rojas Lopez" kinda ruins this from the get-go. So far, my best idea is that High Vampiric sorts vowels according to if they are close vowels (/i/ or /u/ in Spanish phonology) or mid or open (so /e/, /o/, and /a/ in Spanish phonology and /ə/). This allows me to keep Alex's name the way it is, whew. Vowel harmony should be consistent across the words and are mainly used to keep cases aligned to the root word. So if the genitive case marker was "-l[vowel]" (idk if it is yet, this is just an example), "book of Alexander" would be "book of Alexander-le" or "Alexander-la" (I'm just going to say it would normally follow the first vowel to simplify things, but the "-la" could be a stylistic or dialectic difference). However, "book of Liluh" (the Vampiric pronunciation of "Lilah") would become "book Liluh-li). Just for translation purposes, High Vampiric converts foreign words with a mix of these two vowel types by making all the vowels align with the first one. They pair certain vowels with others (/i/ ↔ /e/, /u/ ↔ /o/, /a/, /ə/) (in other words, the front vowels are put together and the central and back vowels are put together). So "Lilah" becomes "Liluh" because /u/ and /a/ are together. The name "Valentina" would become "Valintina," since the first vowel, /a/, is a mid/open vowel and /e/ is paired with /i/. Vulgar Vampiric works almost the exact same way, but it separates /ə/ from all the other vowels. /ə/ can be appear in words with close vowels (/i/, /u/) and in words with mid and open vowels (/e/, /o/, /a/). It is never converted. Let's look at the name "Crispen" to show this. (As a side note, while the letter is "e," the vowel is /ə/, from my understanding, so I'll be writing "Crispen" as "Crispən" for the rest of this example.) In High Vampiric, "Crispən" would become "Crispun." In Vulgar Vampiric, "Crispən" would stay "Crispən."
Pronouns! I'm working this out as I go along, but here we go. Right now, I'm thinking that Vampiric distinguishes pronouns based on person, number, clusivity (when applicable), animacy, and species. Of course, there are also different pronouns for different cases. And for different formality levels (that's where this all gets really complicated so... not going into that yet, not even touching it with a stick). There are also possessive pronouns. These are just the basic pronouns that get changed around. Here is table: (to clarify, v=vampire, f=foreign, in.=inanimate)
1st person (v)
2nd person (v)
2nd person (f)
3rd person (v)
3rd person (f)
3rd person (in.)
This is basically a Vampiric-to-English translation of each pronoun. As you can see, plural pronouns are more complex than their singular counterparts. I'll review how each distinguishing element appears. To start, you can see the person and number distinctions pretty clearly (1st, 2nd, 3rd person and singular and plural). Clusivity is when the 1st person plural ("we," in English) clarifies whether or not the listener is included. Let's say you have three people: John, Joe, and Jane. John is talking to Joe, and he says "we are going to the movies." "We" could mean John and Joe, John and Jane, or all three. If "we" includes Joe, the listener, then it is the inclusive we. If it does not, then it is the exclusive we. Animacy is also pretty easy to grasp. Basically, if something is alive, it is animate. If not, then it is inanimate.
With Vampiric pronouns, pretty much everything is animate, with the exception of that last third person pair of pronouns (the last row). Also, vampires sometimes use the inanimate pronouns to refer to other species, but this is very derogatory. They often do this for werewolves. In short, inanimacy only appears in the third person.
Now we get to the species difference. As you can see, each animate pronoun is split into two categories: vampire and foreign. Foreign normally means another species, although it could refer to another group of vampires if the cultural divide is large enough (i.e. Alex's coven vs the yee-haw vampires). This vampire-foreigner distinction does not appear in the first person because, well, it's never really needed. Vampires are very insular; they don't associate with other species. As a result, their language does not need to separate vampire from foreigner in the first person. Obviously this doesn't work for Alex right now, so he'll use the normally-vampires-only first person terms. So if he were talking to Lilah, he could use the "we (inclusive" to refer to the both of them. The more grammatically correct form would be "I and you (f)," but that implies that they aren't friends. So that's not happening. Also, remember that only vampires speak Vampiric, so there is no need for a first person pronoun that a person of another species would use. If someone who was not a vampire were to use the first person pronoun, that would just be wrong. They *have* to use the third person foreign pronoun. I suppose this is another example vampires' built-in linguistic xenophobia. Finally, while these are a lot of pronouns, the foreigner pronouns are not used much in Vampiric. Now, Alex is going to be using these pronouns a lot, but that does not reflect how most vampires use it. Vampire culture is very insular, so they rarely need to talk about foreigners. Furthermore, although covens have differences between their cultures, it is rare for them to use the foreigner pronouns to refer to each other. Vampires have a strong sense of species pride, so calling another coven foreign is very rude. It can still happen (again, yee-haw vampires), but it rarely does.
Side note: there can be extra formality inflections with pronouns (see formality, tones, whenever I write those), but these are the basics. Also, these pronouns should all include one vowel. For singular pronouns, this vowel will change according to the name of the person/object. For plural pronouns, this gets a bit more complicated. If the group has a name or is a plural of one object (i.e. "Shifters," "vampires," "mushrooms," "books"), then the vowel is the same as the name's first vowel (so "Shifters" → /i/, "vampires" → /a/, "mushrooms" → /u/, "books" → /o/) (obviously I didn't change these words so they follow Vampiric's vowel harmony, but you get it). If it is a group of individuals, it is really just up to the speaker to choose. Most speakers choose the pronoun of the next sentence they're saying (pronouns tend to be monosyllabic, so this makes the sentence sound better), but this is just convention and not an actual linguistic rule.
Vampiric allows for pronoun dropping (like how Spanish can say '¿tú tienes? or ¿tienes? and they both mean "do you have (it)?"). But again, there are different attitudes towards pronoun dropping in High and Low Vampiric. In High Vampiric, pronoun dropping has implications for formality. In Vulgar Vampiric, it's just the speaker's preference. It could have that implication, but that's more contextual than an inherent part of the language.
There are a ton of diminutives. I've already posted about this, but I figured I should put that here too. Diminutives are essentially terms of affection (they can make something smaller, like "perro" (dog) to "perrito" (puppy) in Spanish, but this is not their primary use). Vampiric has a few of them, each with slightly different implications (one is for romantic partners, another is for younger family members, another for friends, etc). Unusually for Vampiric, they do not have specific formality markers. This is because, well, you probably already used a formality marker before using a diminutive. And more importantly diminutives are only used for people you are on a casual formality level with, so... it's not really an issue. At any rate, diminutives do not vary in terms of level of affection a lot, just the time of affection. So you use a different diminutive for your best friend than for your partner, but both express the same "level" or "degree" of affection. However, diminutives can be repeated over and over. The more something is repeated, the more emphasized it is. So, if we did this in English, you could think of "kid-do" as the first diminutive level. "Kid-do-do" would be more affectionate, and "kid-do-do-do-do-do-do" would be super affectionate.
Vampiric has two basic number systems: base-10 and base-20. Base-10 is for High Vampiric, base-20 is for Vulgar Vampiric. High Vampiric follows the Spanish number system. This is pretty similar to the English number system (almost the exact same, really), although they branch off at 1,000,000,000. In English, we call this "one billion," but in Spanish it is "one thousand milion." 10,000,000,000 is "ten billion" (English) and "ten thousand million" (in Spanish). Likewise, 1,000,000,000,000 is "one billion" in Spanish and High Vampiric, not "one trillion" like it is in English. Other than that though, High Vampiric pretty much obeys English numerical system. So you don't have to get your head around anything, yay! (: Now, Vulgar Vampiric runs on a base-20 system. So you have 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j. You get the gist.
Okay, brief background: High Vampiric's numerical system is based on Spanish whereas the Vulgar Vampiric's base-20 system echoes Nahuatl's numerical system. I know that Spanish is seen as more "prestigious" than Nahuatl and I would just like to say that that is stupid. They are both beautiful languages and both Spanish and Nahuatl deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
Anyways, as for why Vampiric has two number systems, it's pretty simple: they evolved separately. Way back before the Cataclysm or whatever, before vampires united as one species and they were all hanging out in different little covens, some of them adopted different number systems. Some covens went with base-10 because, well, they had ten fingers. Others went with base-20 because they have ten fingers and ten toes. One went with base-20 but switches to counting other people's digits when they get above 20. So 20 is badly translated as "my 20th digit," 24 is "the second person's fourth digit," 96 is "the fifth person's sixteenth digit." that system is mostly gone, but you can still find it in very remote covens (me thinks the yee-haw vampires would use this) During the dictatorship, a lot of stuff changed, including the number system. Think of it like French Revolution calendar that had ten-day weeks instead of seven-day ones. For vampires, their entire number system changed to base-5. This was based on two things: hands and senses. Base-5 does reference the number of fingers on one hand, but it also represents their three main senses (sight, hearing, smell). Two eyes, two ears, one nose. After the dictatorship, everyone pretty much just went back to the old base-10 and base-20 systems because screw it. Also base-5 just gives you trouble with large numbers.
Anyhow. High Vampiric went with base-10 because it was generally used by more covens, so it became the standard. Because High Vampiric is forced to never change, well, this system was chosen as the standard and it's the only one to be used for High Vampiric since. Vulgar Vampiric, on the other hand, is a mix of a bunch of different forms of Vampiric. Some people used base-20, some people used base-10, it was just a mess. The thing is, most of the other species use base-20. As a result, border covens (who do most of the vampires' trading and thus interact with other species the most) adopted base-20. That led to base-20 becoming the standard in Vulgar Vampiric. Base-10 is still grammatically correct and fine to use, but it makes you seem a bit snooty ('cuz you're using the Prestige Number System™).
Now, things get a bit crazy. Or not, we'll see. Vulgar Vampiric pronounces and writes numbers in a way that's pretty similar to us. So they have an individual number word for 20 (well, '10' in base-20) and 40 ('20') and they combine number words for things like 69 (which becomes '30' '9'). You know how we have unique words for the tens? Like twenty, thirty, forty, etc.? Well, that's how Vulgar Vampiric works. There are also similarities between the word for 'finger' and the numbers 1-10 and the word for 'toe' and the numbers 11-20. This relationship might not be immediately obvious, but there are similarities in the root (because they started counting on their hands and then their toes, so... yeah). High Vampiric, on the other hand... not really. For one, their numbers do not have a recognizable relationship with either fingers or toes. They do have separate words for 0-9 and then 10, 100, 1,000, etc. In other words they have words for each digit and then multiples of 10. So instead of saying 20, they'd say 'two ten.' 39 would be 'three ten nine' and 1943 would be 'thousand nine hundred four ten three.' From my understanding, Mandarin works pretty similarly, but I honestly don't know. If anyone here knows how Mandarin numbers work, please let me know.
Okay, one last thing. This is where things can go from a bit crazy to very crazy. Numbers change depending on what we are counting. Think of it like the difference between "one" and "first." In Vampiric, we just have more differences. There are different numbers for vampires, animate non-vampires (so Mages, squirrels, etc.), small units of time (days, hours, minutes, seconds), and large periods of time (weeks, months, years, decades, centuries, etc.), and then a last set of numbers for everything else (concepts, inanimate things, etc.). There is also an ordinal number system, but this just involves attaching the same suffix to every number, so it's not too hard to deal with.
Time: This is going to be a very complicated feature, since vampires are functionally immortal and all that. But... I'll try to fit everything under here.
To start, Vampiric can add tense markers to nouns and pronouns. These tense markers are identical to verbal markers. For example, English's "default" past tense marker is "-ed". If English worked like Vampiric, then you could say "I-ed" instead of "my past self." This way, vampires can reserve to themselves in the past as a somewhat different person (I mean, you do change as you grow older). However, this is not main way Vampiric uses tense markers with nouns. Instead, they are mostly used to derive new words. For example, the word for fiancé could be "spouse-[future marker]" and "fired person" could be "employee-[near past marker]".
Secondly (and this is more a cultural thing, but it manifests in the language), vampires have very complicated time metaphors. Vampires kind of have two natural stages in their life: change and stagnation. When they're young, they are noticeably changing. But once they reach a certain age, the aging process becomes almost imperceptible (emphasis on "almost"). As such, vampires have two ways of viewing time: you travel through time (aka aging) and time travels past you (aka when you've stopped aging but the world keeps going). This often manifests in Vampiric idioms. A youngster would say "I'm going towards the event," whereas an elder would say "the event is coming closer." (Just, you know, without it sounding so clunky.) Of course, time's interactions with non-vampires is very different. Time happens to them. Since basically everything else in the world ages at a noticeable pace (well, from vampires' POV), time happens to them. Time is still the one doing the traveling, but this also changes how one describes age. Young vampires have years (since they are traveling through time), so Alex would say "I am 20 years old," like we do in English. Older vampires have done their traveling and are now letting time come to them, so they say "I have 100 years" instead of "I am 100 years old." (It's also kinda a bragging thing about how old they are, since "having" is more of an accomplishment than "being," idk, vampires are all narcissists.) Since time happens to non-vampires, one would say "To Clarisse there are 23 years" instead of "Clarisse is 23 years old." Things get complicated with natural stuff, like mountains and whatever, since they also don't change very noticeably. Here... it's really up to the speaker. Different time metaphors can say different things about the nature of the event and the object. For example, if talking about how old a mountain is that is, well, ancient and hasn't changed in basically forever, a vampire could say that it "has" years. However, if it drastically changed (maybe it turned out to be a volcano that just hadn't erupted ever in known history and then, well, it erupted), then the mountain traveled through time, and time did not travel at all. Maybe if there is gradual change (like the mountain's getting eroded), then both time and the mountain are traveling. Maybe they're going at different rates. Again, stuff gets complicated.
Thirdly, time also has spatial metaphors. Again, this is a more cultural idea than linguistic thing, but it affects Vampiric metaphors and idioms. Time goes from bottom to top (so if vampires drew a timeline, it would be a vertical line, and the bottom-most event would be the oldest one and the top one could be recent history, the present, the future, you get the idea). This also affects idioms and is a persistent metaphor in Vampiric. Vampires often refer to the distant future as "far above," much like English speakers say that something is "far ahead." Likewise, vampires refer to what is in front of them as the past and what is behind them as the future. If a vampire is talking about the past, they'll gesture in front of them, and they will gesture behind them if talking about the future. For example, a Vampiric speaker would say that an event is "behind them" to indicate it is in the future, whereas an English speaker would see it as being in the past. This is because vampires see the past as something they can "see" (i.e. remember), so it makes sense that it is in front of them. Additionally, the present is basically the close space around them. Remember how the present tense represents what is happening around the current moment? Well, that's what this spatial-time thing does. A vampire could point to where they are to represent the current moment (like, idk, point at their feet or something), and then to the sky to indicate the distant future. Essentially, the past and present are both "stuff I can detect," whereas the future is "super far away stuff that I figure exists but idk really." This leads to a whole bunch of idioms and the like. For example, "the event smells strong" could mean that it will happen soon (remember, vampires' main sense is smell), and "I cannot smell [the event]" would mean that it will happen in the distant future. "It's at my feet" could mean that the event is in the recent past, whereas events happening around the head could be the near future. "It is in stone" means that it is an ancient event (as in it's deep underground), "it is in the dirt" means that it is a more recent event, and "it is in the clouds" means that it is in the future. Of course, stars kind of break this pattern, since vampires see the stars as the souls of dead vampires, but... I'm too tired to deal with that inconsistency. I guess it's just a weird quirk of vampire culture for now.
MISC NOTES: more complex vowels than consonants, agglutinative for the most part (fusional with conjugation, agglutinative with cases, negation, basically everything else), formality (vampire vs nonvampire), adjectives, aspect
That's all for now! It is 3AM, so I am going to bed. I'll update this list later (in additional posts, probably, we'll see). Later editions will include pronouns (clusivity, number, person, droppable), some minor tone stuff (mostly used to express respect), conjugations (reflecting tense, aspect, mood, pronoun alignment) (basically how Spanish works) (and with an optional evidentiality marker), and miscellaneous stuff (closeness/relatedness prepositions, question formation, etc.). if you can't tell, i'm using this last bit to jot down ideas so i don't forget them, lol
EDIT #1: added the fluid-s section, difference between how High and Vulgar Vampiric treat /ə/ in vowel harmony
EDIT #2: changed conjugation so it includes tense, added a long pronoun description, and notes about the agglutinative language structure, included a tiny bit about noun-adjective order under the SVO comment
EDIT #3: changed pronoun section (removed specific vs general thing, added in a bit about pronoun dropping), added sense words and diminutives sections
EDIT #4: added in number system basics (and then added some more about what numbers are called), added in spaces so the mega-list is a bit more readable
EDIT #5: made high and vulgar vampiric lingua francas, added in a note that aspect goes crazy, not that much
EDIT #6: added vulgar vampiric's sound change mess section, complicated the present tense, added the monstrous time section (nouns and tense markers, time metaphors, time-and-space metaphors)
Post by Stαrchαser ミ☆ on Dec 19, 2020 18:20:32 GMT -5
Okay, so I finally got around to rereading this enough times to where I mostly understand what you're describing (which is an insult to me, not you, I just don't have a great grasp on these concepts yet), and I really love all the ideas so far!
One thing I was a little confused one was your mention of Vampiric pronouns and how Alex was using them. My assumption is that while talking to the other species, he'd have to be using the a universal language (I'm just going to call in Veuxdelian for now), no? So the pronouns wouldn't really come into play? Or they would, but it would be a "universalized" version of those pronouns, or perhaps as an untranslatable word of sorts? So in the Veuxdelian, the Vampiric pronouns for vampires or foreigners would be distinguishable as separate words, but they wouldn't show up in the vocabulary of other species' dialect of Veuxdelian. This would probably be the case for a lot of Vampiric words, making their variation (I don't actually think that's the proper word, but it's all that's coming to mind right now) of Veuxdelian somewhat difficult for other species to understand. Is it clear I have no clue what I'm talking about?
Now, this honestly doesn't make sense when taking into consideration vampires' lifestyle and culture. I doubt Alex would have learned the all-species language since, as you pointed out, vampires are a very insular species. As only government workers tend to interact with the other Families, and even leave their covens, most vampires would have no need to learn other languages. That said, it would make Alex's communication with the rest of prophecy crew difficult.
It wouldn't be as much of a problem with Lilah. Since she grew up mostly in Sanctum, and in a family that's prominent enough to frequently interact with the other species, she learned to communicate with the other species early on. Probably not everything, but enough to hold down basic conversations with most any species in their native language. I'm sure she's fluent in all the variations of Mage language, and probably Heavenly too, when considering they share friendly relations with each other. She's got probably an intermediate understanding of certain Shifter (I'm guessing werewolf and more common shapeshifter types) and Infernal languages (demons and fae, most likely).
However, it appears that vampires don't want other species speaking their language, so maybe this would only be used in the case of foreign government officials speaking with them. I also don't necessarily see vampires stooping to the level of learning other species' languages, meaning any foreign relations would have to be conducted in Vampiric. So perhaps no one except those in the government would know Vampiric, but that would also be a problem for our setup.
Lilah is somewhat aristocratic in her own right, not even taking into account her bloodline. Since magical ability is often synonymous with power in their society, she inevitably found her way into higher positions, and fairly quickly. I never thought that much about her job, except she probably does work in some area for the government. Mage careers tend to be very interdisciplinary, they just sort of hop between whatever job that has need and they're capable of doing. Part of this is them wanting to excel in everything, so it's considered very prestigious to work across many fields. They also have a lot of freedom in what they do and when, at least if you're in that sweet spot of being important enough, but not so important your job requires near constant attention.
Part of this was me trying to figure out what she would be doing in Infernal territory. My original idea for why she was there doesn't make much sense anymore, so I'm thinking she might have been part of a team meant to hand some breach in the Infernals' barrier. The after the job was finished, she just kind of took her time going back (Lilah avoids being in one place like it's a death sentence, a bit like sharks, I suppose) and started having the dreams. So how would she have the freedom to do this as someone with a fairly important job? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm gonna handwave it by playing off the above idea. Lilah wouldn't even have to work if she didn't want to, but Mages don't really like not having something to do. My best idea is that all lower government workers (not in the High or Low Councils) choose what assignments to take and when. As long as there's no shortage of workers, they pick and choose. This sounds like it wouldn't work very well, but this is a fantasy world. In that respect, most Mages are self-employed to a certain extent. Now, there are certainly jobs only specific people would be able to perform and highly important assignments, so the rules for those would be a bit different. Some jobs they can't refuse doing, but for the rest it's all very open. I'm just choosing to be idealistic about this society.
Well, that was a major detour. Anyways. Lilah would probably be able to speak some Vampiric, is what I'm getting at. This doesn't solve the issue of the other prophecy members not knowing how to communicate with Alex (save maybe Clarisse), so I was going to propose that Alex might have had to learn some basic Veuxdelian before he left once the elders decided about him needing to leave? I feel like that would make sense, but idk. Basically, it would be somewhat more complicated than how most species use Veuxdelian, but understandable.
I don't really have anything else to add about the other stuff yet, mostly because this is already so long, but I didn't note anything I thought was wrong or nonsensical about Vampiric. Granted, I'm not nearly as knowledgeable on the subject as you, but what research I have done doesn't seem to indicate Vampiric is unreasonable.
Ok, good to know. Let me know if there's any linguistic things that I could explain better! I tried, but clear explanations aren't my strong suit xD
Ok, I understand. I was using those just as examples of how Alex would have to speak in that hypothetical scenario. I don't think it would be very relevant in the RP. In certain cases, yes (mainly thinking about the yee-haw vampires here), but for most of the RP, no. Honestly I doubt most of anything I mentioned would be relevant for the RP. It's just me obsessively conlanging xD
That's an interesting problem. I hadn't thought about it, but I agree that vampires' isolationism would lead to that. I guess we can just use a handwavy explanation? Since Alex comes from a high-level Coven, he would be expected to become high-level government official. Now, he would not be very likely to end up raising high enough to go to the Sanctum, but if he were too, he would need to learn Veuxdelian. So it is possible that he started learning it for those purposes...? He would not be very good at it though. lol, his vocabulary would be all "tariffs" and "jurisdiction" and "legislative amendment" For starters, he would not have been learning it for a while. Vampires in the Sanctum speak perfect Veuxdelian (vampires must be perfect because superiority complex), but they have years to perfect it (hell, by the time they go to the Sanctum, they've probably been speaking it longer than everyone else there has been alive) (ha, used "perfect" three times in one sentence, A+ for my writing skills). Alex would have had years ahead of him to learn Veuxdelian and then... nope! You're part of the prophecy, time to use your okay-at-best foreign language skills. So... that was a long ramble. In short, he would be speaking it, but it would not be great. He'd have trouble with colloquialisms and the like. He could still express himself, but the poor kid would sound like a toddler using words that were way too fancy for the occasion while not remembering to put adjectives before nouns. (Does Veuxdelian put adjectives before nouns? idk. i'm saying it does for the sake of that joke)
As for other Families, I'm not sure how many would learn Vampiric. Again, vampires are very insular. They wouldn't want any non-vampires speaking it. Part of that is practical (vampiric has a complicated formality system that would be easy to mess up and vampires don't want to let that happen), but most of it is just... vampires being vampires and not wanting any outsiders near their Special Language That Is Better Than Yours Because Vampires Are The Best. Now, that doesn't mean that no one would know it (I assume anyone who lives near/goes to the border of vampire territory would know a bit, since border vampires would not be seen as potential Sanctum government representatives). They would probably learn High Vampiric. It is the artificially standardized language, so it would not have as many irregularities as Vulgar Vampiric. It doesn't have many exceptions to its grammatical rules or any variation from one region to another. And, from the vampires' perspective, it's harder to mess up (not by much, but it should be easier to grasp). It's also probably considered the more beautiful form of the language, so... yeah. In short, vampires would not want outsiders speaking their language, but if they had to, it would be High Vampiric.
Side note: I am going to get rid of the specific/general thing for the pronouns, so... yeah. (Just mentioning it so for clarity, so no one goes back and wonders where something went or whatever.)
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