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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 20:45:56 GMT -5
Unpopular opinion I know, but I really don't think Nightcloud was that bad of a parent. Was she perfect? No, but at least she didn't ignore her kit, or talk harshly to him. She was a bit overprotective, and she indulged his behavior too much, but can you blame her? She lost ALL of her other kits, of course she's going to be over-protective and spoil the one who lived. I really don't understand why Nightcloud gets all this hate for her parenting.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 5, 2020 20:47:30 GMT -5
People for some reason are determined to blame Breezepelt's actions on every cat in his life except Breezepelt. Unfortunately, Nightcloud is included in that mix.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 5, 2020 20:48:00 GMT -5
she's the same kind of bad that star flower was to clear sky. excusing someone's abusive or bad actions and constant behaviors is bad regardless. so, nightcloud's parenting is a different type of bad. coddling your child to the point of them thinking they can't do anything wrong or bad is dangerous. making excuses for your child's bad behavior is toxic. whispering toxic things to your child about their other parent is toxic. all things nightcloud has done.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 20:48:50 GMT -5
People for some reason are determined to blame Breezepelt's actions on every cat in his life except Breezepelt. Unfortunately, Nightcloud is included in that mix. That's lame, I can understand why Breezepelt was so hurt and upset, but he was a warrior when he tried to kill Poppyfrost, Molewhisker, Cherryfall, and Jayfeather, and when he fought on the side of the Dark Forest, he should have known better.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 5, 2020 20:49:03 GMT -5
People for some reason are determined to blame Breezepelt's actions on every cat in his life except Breezepelt. Unfortunately, Nightcloud is included in that mix. i blame everyone in the family, but since nightcloud was the active parent, i blame her more than crowfeather. also blame breezepelt himself, but you have to acknowledge nightcloud's coddling and excusing of breezepelt's behavior isn't good anyways.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 20:49:48 GMT -5
she's the same kind of bad that star flower was to clear sky. excusing someone's abusive or bad actions and constant behaviors is bad regardless. so, nightcloud's parenting is a different type of bad. coddling your child to the point of them thinking they can't do anything wrong or bad is dangerous. making excuses for your child's bad behavior is toxic. whispering toxic things to your child about their other parent is toxic. all things nightcloud has done. That's a good point. I heard about Nightcloud trash talking Crowfeather to Breezepelt, but I don't remember it myself.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 5, 2020 20:49:54 GMT -5
Coddling isn't exactly healthy nor is indulging Breezepelt's behavior, and that's why she's considered a bad parent. Yes, she lost her other kits and payed attention to her son, but none of this excuses her actions.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 5, 2020 20:53:14 GMT -5
People for some reason are determined to blame Breezepelt's actions on every cat in his life except Breezepelt. Unfortunately, Nightcloud is included in that mix. i blame everyone in the family, but since nightcloud was the active parent, i blame her more than crowfeather. also blame breezepelt himself, but you have to acknowledge nightcloud's coddling and excusing of breezepelt's behavior isn't good anyways. Oh, I never said her parenting was GOOD. I just don't find it to be bad enough to blame any of Breezepelt's traits on it. I don't even find Crowfeather's treatment bad enough to blame Breezepelt's traits on it. I don't like blaming someone's actions on other people, regardless. Rainflower's the worst mom in Clan history, and Crookedstar and Oakheart turned out fine. Brokenstar was evil AND had bad family life, yet everyone (correctly) blames him for his own actions. Really not sure why Breezepelt is the exception here.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 5, 2020 20:57:11 GMT -5
People for some reason are determined to blame Breezepelt's actions on every cat in his life except Breezepelt. Unfortunately, Nightcloud is included in that mix. i blame everyone in the family, but since nightcloud was the active parent, i blame her more than crowfeather. also blame breezepelt himself, but you have to acknowledge nightcloud's coddling and excusing of breezepelt's behavior isn't good anyways. Honestly, as someone who's been coddled her entire life, I absolutely can't stand it whenever Nightcloud's actions get defended. Breezepelt is ultimately in charge of his own actions, of course he is, but both Crowfeather and Nightcloud played a role as well.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 5, 2020 21:04:00 GMT -5
i blame everyone in the family, but since nightcloud was the active parent, i blame her more than crowfeather. also blame breezepelt himself, but you have to acknowledge nightcloud's coddling and excusing of breezepelt's behavior isn't good anyways. Oh, I never said her parenting was GOOD. I just don't find it to be bad enough to blame any of Breezepelt's traits on it. I don't even find Crowfeather's treatment bad enough to blame Breezepelt's traits on it. I don't like blaming someone's actions on other people, regardless. Rainflower's the worst mom in Clan history, and Crookedstar and Oakheart turned out fine. Brokenstar was evil AND had bad family life, yet everyone (correctly) blames him for his own actions. Really not sure why Breezepelt is the exception here. Context is important and I don't think Brokenstar is a fair comparison since he was apparently destined to be evil even though he was born long after SkyClan left, but anyway, simply put, it's a Nature vs. Nurture sort of thing, though I'm personally a believer in both, that Crowfeather and Nightcloud's actions shouldn't diminish Breezepelt's free will and vice versa if that makes sense.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 21:18:17 GMT -5
i blame everyone in the family, but since nightcloud was the active parent, i blame her more than crowfeather. also blame breezepelt himself, but you have to acknowledge nightcloud's coddling and excusing of breezepelt's behavior isn't good anyways. Honestly, as someone who's been coddled her entire life, I absolutely can't stand it whenever Nightcloud's actions get defended. Breezepelt is ultimately in charge of his own actions, of course he is, but both Crowfeather and Nightcloud played a role as well. That makes sense why you'd dislike Nightcloud, I've never been coddled, the opposite in fact, and I don't really vibe well with characters who remind me of that, so I can understand why you wouldn't like Nightcloud.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 5, 2020 21:23:31 GMT -5
Honestly, as someone who's been coddled her entire life, I absolutely can't stand it whenever Nightcloud's actions get defended. Breezepelt is ultimately in charge of his own actions, of course he is, but both Crowfeather and Nightcloud played a role as well. That makes sense why you'd dislike Nightcloud, I've never been coddled, the opposite in fact, and I don't really vibe well with characters who remind me of that, so I can understand why you wouldn't like Nightcloud. Honestly, even if I wasn't in a similar position, I still wouldn't like it since I'm very interested in psychology, but having that experience makes me dislike her more. Coddling is extremely unhealthy and can even stifle a person's mental development. Again, Breezepelt is in charge of his own actions, but the fact that he was so spoiled by his mother most likely didn't help matters, either.
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Aug 6, 2020 7:59:37 GMT -5
Chicken you forgot that Crowfeather abandoned her to raise Breezepelt in terms of Parenting.
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Aug 6, 2020 9:23:26 GMT -5
Honestly, as someone who's been coddled her entire life, I absolutely can't stand it whenever Nightcloud's actions get defended. Breezepelt is ultimately in charge of his own actions, of course he is, but both Crowfeather and Nightcloud played a role as well. That makes sense why you'd dislike Nightcloud, I've never been coddled, the opposite in fact, and I don't really vibe well with characters who remind me of that, so I can understand why you wouldn't like Nightcloud. Same I feel like Breezepeltn was really spoilt
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 10:06:50 GMT -5
Chicken you forgot that Crowfeather abandoned her to raise Breezepelt in terms of Parenting. What do you mean?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 10:40:11 GMT -5
nightcloud coddles her son. its not healthy parenting and she gives off shitty parenting examples to her son. she blames every problem on crowfeather and takes everything out on him and never once owned up to her actions.
nightcloud clawed crowfeathers back and dragged him by force away from leafpool, ignoring her sons distress when she was arguing with him. why do ppl excuse this shit? because they felt sorry for her?? nightcloud cared about her own feelings at the time and acted extremely possessive and jealous of him. even if ppl excuse this behavior by saying "it only happened one time!!!1111" it still happened. are her fans really telling me that just because abuse happened one time suddenly means its okay? you may as well give millie a get out of jail free card then because she yelled at her daughter once or twice too. you may as well excuse a person's murder because it happened once so i guess they arent a murderer. just hearing that ppl excuse her bullshit because she was abusive "one time" really baffles me. its a weak defense. IT STILL HAPPENED AND YOU CANNOT IGNORE THAT.
nightcloud has never once been admired as a great warrior and respected in the books. when cats talked about her and crowfeather they mentioned how both cats treated each other; since when did the clans ever give a shit about her? what has she done thats amazing, besides acting like a regular warrior? shes hostile and rude to other clan cats and did no better than any other. she has always has a reputation for being snippy back at crowfeather. this is why i refuse to accept the super edition as canon. nightcloud did nothing to earn everyone's respect.
nightcloud could have got herself out of this mess. she knew he was dating leafpool; all of windclan knew that! no, all the clans knew what he and leafpool has done. nightcloud isnt special. she didnt do shit to keep the family together. if theres evidence instead of her own words saying that she tried, please, by all means, show me. Im not accepting shit from her mouth. showing and not telling is a big issue for these books and they really should have showed that she tried to keep them together in the super edition. since it was never shown in the actual series itself then i refuse to believe her words. multiple times cats talked about their family because they're shitty to each other; never once did i ever see nightcloud getting praised for being a hardworking person to try to keep everyone together until that fanservice book came out. if its shown in the books thats NOT in crowfeathers trail or the broken code, then I'll take her word. I want evidence from omen of the stars and power of three. but if there's no evidence if her actually trying other than spitting insults to her husband then I'm not buying what she said.
nightcloud isnt special and did nothing to earn the clans' respect. shes just as bad as crowfeather when it comes to parenting, and his treatment does not excuse her own abusive behavior.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 10:46:29 GMT -5
Im not even a crowfeather fan and im mixed on breezepelt but i like him better than both of his parents. im not defending crowfeather at all. but ppl need to stop treating nightcloud as the #1 mom of the year and act like shes innocent just because they feel sorry for her. its an incredibly biased opinion and nobody ever tries to see both sides, and when ppl debate they tear crow down instead of bringing up valid points for nightclouds defense. most arguments about this family are extremely biased and weak. I dont often see a good reason for ppl defending night & crow. both sides from night & crow fans defend each character because they pity night and ppl defend crow because they're defensive over him. I still have yet to see a decent argument defending both characters that isnt out of pity or bias.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 11:11:26 GMT -5
That makes sense why you'd dislike Nightcloud, I've never been coddled, the opposite in fact, and I don't really vibe well with characters who remind me of that, so I can understand why you wouldn't like Nightcloud. Honestly, even if I wasn't in a similar position, I still wouldn't like it since I'm very interested in psychology, but having that experience makes me dislike her more. Coddling is extremely unhealthy and can even stifle a person's mental development. Again, Breezepelt is in charge of his own actions, but the fact that he was so spoiled by his mother most likely didn't help matters, either. What have you learned from psychology and different parenting styles?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 11:14:22 GMT -5
Im not even a crowfeather fan and im mixed on breezepelt but i like him better than both of his parents. im not defending crowfeather at all. but ppl need to stop treating nightcloud as the #1 mom of the year and act like shes innocent just because they feel sorry for her. its an incredibly biased opinion and nobody ever tries to see both sides, and when ppl debate they tear crow down instead of bringing up valid points for nightclouds defense. most arguments about this family are extremely biased and weak. I dont often see a good reason for ppl defending night & crow. both sides from night & crow fans defend each character because they pity night and ppl defend crow because they're defensive over him. I still have yet to see a decent argument defending both characters that isnt out of pity or bias. First of all, I never said Nightcloud was the #1 mom of the year, or that she's innocent. Second of all, I made a post defending Crowfeather as well not too long ago, so I'm not being biased. As cats? I can't stand Crowfeather, and I haven't really seen enough of Nightcloud to really have an opinion on her.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 6, 2020 11:27:56 GMT -5
Honestly, even if I wasn't in a similar position, I still wouldn't like it since I'm very interested in psychology, but having that experience makes me dislike her more. Coddling is extremely unhealthy and can even stifle a person's mental development. Again, Breezepelt is in charge of his own actions, but the fact that he was so spoiled by his mother most likely didn't help matters, either. What have you learned from psychology and different parenting styles? In a nutshell, that the environment in which a child grows up in can have a huge effect in how they turn out later in life. Not all the time, but there have been several studies on this. You don't even need to be interested in this stuff to know that this makes sense as well, since a child's first teacher will usually be their parent. Part of what makes true crime so interesting is the backstories of criminals. In Breezepelt's case, he had a distant father and an overprotective mother and had sworn revenge against the former, but none of this excuses his actions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 11:37:37 GMT -5
Im not even a crowfeather fan and im mixed on breezepelt but i like him better than both of his parents. im not defending crowfeather at all. but ppl need to stop treating nightcloud as the #1 mom of the year and act like shes innocent just because they feel sorry for her. its an incredibly biased opinion and nobody ever tries to see both sides, and when ppl debate they tear crow down instead of bringing up valid points for nightclouds defense. most arguments about this family are extremely biased and weak. I dont often see a good reason for ppl defending night & crow. both sides from night & crow fans defend each character because they pity night and ppl defend crow because they're defensive over him. I still have yet to see a decent argument defending both characters that isnt out of pity or bias. First of all, I never said Nightcloud was the #1 mom of the year, or that she's innocent. Second of all, I made a post defending Crowfeather as well not too long ago, so I'm not being biased. As cats? I can't stand Crowfeather, and I haven't really seen enough of Nightcloud to really have an opinion on her. not directed at you. never said this comment was aimed at you. im speaking from my own experience how nightcloud fans treated me and what i have seen from their debates. nothing is against you. i dont know why ppl always say that on here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 11:42:19 GMT -5
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵That's interesting, I think the parenting style of my mother affected me a bit, because I find it impossible to form close bonds with people. @sweetpaw Ohh okay, it kind of seemed like it was, since it was posted on my thread, and no one else was really defending her on here, sorry for misunderstanding.
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Aug 6, 2020 11:45:52 GMT -5
Chicken you forgot that Crowfeather abandoned her to raise Breezepelt in terms of Parenting. What do you mean? y'know Crowfeather did literally nothing to raise Breezepelt so Nightcloud had no choice but to coddle him to make up for thst absence
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 11:48:24 GMT -5
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵That's interesting, I think the parenting style of my mother affected me a bit, because I find it impossible to form close bonds with people. @sweetpaw Ohh okay, it kind of seemed like it was, since it was posted on my thread, and no one else was really defending her on here, sorry for misunderstanding. its cool, for some reason this misunderstanding happens a lot and idk why. its only from warriors general, never had this problem before. no hard feelings tho.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 11:49:12 GMT -5
@sweetpaw Yeah, true, I think a lot of it has to do with reading comprehension lol Emberstar 🔥Yeah, that makes sense, I can see why Nightcloud would do that
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 11:50:16 GMT -5
y'know Crowfeather did literally nothing to raise Breezepelt so Nightcloud had no choice but to coddle him to make up for thst absence nightcloud also had a choice to be a better parent. she didnt have to coddle him to make up for his absence. thats not healthy. everyone has a choice for their actions. nightcloud chose to do this.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 11:51:43 GMT -5
again why are ppl acting like she had no choice for her faults? she chose to be in a relationship with him. she chose to be abusive to crowfeather. she chose to coddle breezepelt. crowfeather may have been an influence to her behavior but she alone chose her own actions. nobody made nightcloud do anything.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 11:52:11 GMT -5
this is coming from someone who doesnt even like crowfeather.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Aug 6, 2020 11:58:06 GMT -5
It's not healthy BUT I feel for Nightcloud. She had three kits in that litter and the other two died. That must have been devastating for her, so I understand WHY she is overprotective
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 12:00:17 GMT -5
It's not healthy BUT I feel for Nightcloud. She had three kits in that litter and the other two died. That must have been devastating for her, so I understand WHY she is overprotective Same! This is what I'm trying to say, I'm not saying that her actions are excusable, but I can understand why she is how she is.
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