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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 8:08:06 GMT -5
Who is your favorite out of these bullies? Also, who was the biggest bully?
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Post by Goldy from Dappleclan on Aug 1, 2020 8:18:12 GMT -5
Thistleclaw - Favourite because he's actually memorable and more developed than the rest.
Shrew - Biggest bully.
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 1, 2020 9:19:57 GMT -5
Thistleclaw really doesn't deserve to be in the same class as all of the irrelevant nobodies who serve as competition for bullies here. The only one who is near as relevant is Shrewclaw, but Shrewclaw really just can't compete with Thistleclaw's vengeful obsession and lost love angle, he has nowhere near enough relevance to the plot to do that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 9:33:06 GMT -5
Thistleclaw really doesn't deserve to be in the same class as all of the irrelevant nobodies who serve as competition for bullies here. The only one who is near as relevant is Shrewclaw, but Shrewclaw really just can't compete with Thistleclaw's vengeful obsession and lost love angle, he has nowhere near enough relevance to the plot to do that. Thistleclaw probably has the least personality of all these cats listed.
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 1, 2020 9:45:32 GMT -5
Thistleclaw really doesn't deserve to be in the same class as all of the irrelevant nobodies who serve as competition for bullies here. The only one who is near as relevant is Shrewclaw, but Shrewclaw really just can't compete with Thistleclaw's vengeful obsession and lost love angle, he has nowhere near enough relevance to the plot to do that. Thistleclaw probably has the least personality of all these cats listed. How so? We see Thistleclaw's development on-screen and how he progresses. The other characters either have no development, or it happens off-screen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 9:54:54 GMT -5
Thistleclaw probably has the least personality of all these cats listed. How so? We see Thistleclaw's development on-screen and how he progresses. The other characters either have no development, or it happens off-screen. He's just the generic aggressive power hungry cat, I see no difference between him, Tigerclaw,and Brokenstar, except his crimes weren't as drastic.
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 1, 2020 9:59:40 GMT -5
How so? We see Thistleclaw's development on-screen and how he progresses. The other characters either have no development, or it happens off-screen. He's just the generic aggressive power hungry cat, I see no difference between him, Tigerclaw,and Brokenstar, except his crimes weren't as drastic. The key difference is that he loved his family and seemed to actually attempt to be a good parent, and that we see a real difference between himself before Snowfur's death and afterwards. The fact that he has any development to begin with already puts him over most of the others he's being put up against here, who I can scarce remember ANYTHING about.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 10:08:48 GMT -5
He's just the generic aggressive power hungry cat, I see no difference between him, Tigerclaw,and Brokenstar, except his crimes weren't as drastic. The key difference is that he loved his family and seemed to actually attempt to be a good parent, and that we see a real difference between himself before Snowfur's death and afterwards. The fact that he has any development to begin with already puts him over most of the others he's being put up against here, who I can scarce remember ANYTHING about. I just remember him being a huge jerk, and not that good of a parent, but I'll take your word for it.
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Post by Oceanmist97 on Aug 1, 2020 10:27:32 GMT -5
Tbh, I don't recall Beetlenose being much of a bully. He was kind of brash and egocentric, but I don't remember him picking on other cats in the same way that Foxheart and Shrewclaw did.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 10:36:54 GMT -5
Tbh, I don't recall Beetlenose being much of a bully. He was kind of brash and egocentric, but I don't remember him picking on other cats in the same way that Foxheart and Shrewclaw did. I remember him annoying me even more than Shrewclaw did at first, however, I think he was shown as being a better cat much longer than Shrewclaw and Foxheart were. Foxheart didn't even turn "good" before she died. Shrewclaw kind of got better, but then he died pretty quickly. Beetlenose actually got to grow up and start a family, and thank goodness he did, he seemed to be really good with kits.
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Post by Oceanmist97 on Aug 1, 2020 10:40:11 GMT -5
@hmm
Exactly! Beetlenose was kind of like a softer version of Berrynose. Kind of full of himself, but ultimately a good cat who ended up settling down.
The real bully of Crookedstar's Promise is Rainflower, lmao.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 10:44:11 GMT -5
@hmm Exactly! Beetlenose was kind of like a softer version of Berrynose. Kind of full of himself, but ultimately a good cat who ended up settling down. The real bully of Crookedstar's Promise is Rainflower, lmao. Agreed! I really like Beetlenose, and his littermates are fantastic too, Echomist and Hailstar did a great job in raising them. So, remember how Voleclaw started out as this huge jokester, who started to become more like Beetlenose was as time went on? I think I found the reason for it, he had Rippleclaw was a mentor, and Rippleclaw was kind of gruff. Oh snap, you're right lol. I wanted to choose characters that are close in age to the main character though.
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Post by Fireleap on Aug 1, 2020 11:19:38 GMT -5
Beetlenose- Favorite Shrewclaw- Biggest Bully
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 1, 2020 12:50:15 GMT -5
Shrewclaw is probably my favorite in terms of being the most interesting. I liked Beetlenose well enough too (I actually never even considered him a bully, but more like a rival), and I loathe Foxheart and Thistleclaw, but at least the latter's aggressiveness had a point. That said, I'm still going with him. Foxheart was nowhere near as cruel as he was.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 1, 2020 20:13:53 GMT -5
Shrewclaw for biggest bully, Beetlenose for favorite.
I don't recall Beetlenose ever being that bad. More arrogant, but never mean. Been awhile since I read the books though. Plus he turned out to be a bona-fide good guy.
Foxheart was awful to everyone, but again, I feel like she's arrogant and clique-y. Her meanness is more of a personality trait. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's better than directly targeting a weaker cat and picking on them. Foxheart just hates everyone equally. Same with her friend Lizardstripe.
Shrewclaw is just your generic bully. He's a stuck-up ass who picks on weaker kids because it amuses him. With Foxheart, I could find some charm in her hatred of the world, but with Shrew I just feel annoyed with the total cliche of it all.
Thistleclaw I agree with vectoring on; he's not really in the same class as the rest of these guys. I think this is because Thistle is an actual villain, whereas the rest of these guys are just distractions from the main plot. Like, you would have a really hard time calling Foxheart or Beetlenose a villain (they're just not antagonistic enough, plot-wise), but you would have no issue calling Thistleclaw so.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 20:17:32 GMT -5
Shrewclaw for biggest bully, Beetlenose for favorite. I don't recall Beetlenose ever being that bad. More arrogant, but never mean. Been awhile since I read the books though. Plus he turned out to be a bona-fide good guy. Foxheart was awful to everyone, but again, I feel like she's arrogant and clique-y. Her meanness is more of a personality trait. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's better than directly targeting a weaker cat and picking on them. Foxheart just hates everyone equally. Same with her friend Lizardstripe. Shrewclaw is just your generic bully. He's a stuck-up ass who picks on weaker kids because it amuses him. With Foxheart, I could find some charm in her hatred of the world, but with Shrew I just feel annoyed with the total cliche of it all. Thistleclaw I agree with vectoring on; he's not really in the same class as the rest of these guys. I think this is because Thistle is an actual villain, whereas the rest of these guys are just distractions from the main plot. Like, you would have a really hard time calling Foxheart or Beetlenose a villain (they're just not antagonistic enough, plot-wise), but you would have no issue calling Thistleclaw so. True about Thistleclaw, I just couldn't find someone else to fill the slot for the bully in Bluestar's SE.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 1, 2020 22:27:27 GMT -5
Fav was probably Shrewclaw, and the biggest bully was probably RainflowerFoxheart.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 22:45:09 GMT -5
Fav was probably Shrewclaw, and the biggest bully was probably RainflowerFoxheart. Agreed 100% about Rainflower being the biggest bully in Crookedstar's Promise Lizardstripe would win the title in Yellowfang's Secret.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 0:06:00 GMT -5
I despise all of them.
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 2, 2020 0:31:39 GMT -5
Thistleclaw favorite, I won't lie, sometimes I agreed with him when it came to his douchery to Blue. Also I love how despite not being a good cat, he has some genuine soft moments like with Snowfur and Whitekit. I feel people use the "He called Whitestorm and Snowfur soft" thing too much when that's not even the worst he could do. So he called them soft, and? Guys, Whitestorm IS soft, that's his character, I can't even recall the last time he got pissed if ever. And Snowfur's a rose-covered glasses case, the feeling is mutual for them and frankly the fandom has a habit of depicting her as some soft butterfly when she isn't as is, but Thistleclaw calls her soft and suddenly it's a problem? I don't see the big deal, it's not as if he doesn't actually love them or anything. And yeah I agree on the notion he's not on the level of the others. He's a SE protagonist bully LIKE the others sure, but he's also supposed to be the supposed "main antagonist". The others are just bullies.
Shrewclaw biggest bully because screw him, he told Talltail to die and that nobody would miss him if he did. Grieving or not, I literally do NOT care if he's grieving, it's not the same like Thistle in that he JUST called his son and mate soft and nothing actually harsher (That was reserved for Bluefur, and I don't like Bluefur), he's an asshole to Talltail and then when he leaves Shrew has the gall to be all "I was just joking". Bitch shut up. Also Shrewclaw reminds me of my trauma with bullies exactly like him. So yeah there's bias in my choice. Bite me.
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Post by Sundance on Aug 2, 2020 2:57:34 GMT -5
I LOVVEEEE Shrewclaw. It’s been awhile since I’ve read Tallstar’s Revenge, but I remember him being a fun, slightly complex character
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 10:41:08 GMT -5
thistle and shrew are my favourites, but since i have to pick one of the two i'd go with thistle. he's got way more development than any of these, and like vectoring said he just outclasses the other choices. shrewclaw is pretty good too, but i'd say he is there to show how talltail matures over time and, just yknow deals with stuff.
that being said I adore thistle in BP, and he kinda overshadows the rest of the SE bullies because of how intertwined he was in Bluestar's life. if you take a throwaway character like foxheart or voleclaw, they just don't have enough fleshed out moments with either yellowfang or Crookedstar. in terms of just being a total diсk, foxheart takes that title without question, but i couldn't care less when she died; i also have no clue what happened to half the side characters in CP
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Post by jayfeather1234 on Aug 3, 2020 14:02:51 GMT -5
Shrewclaw for biggest bully, Beetlenose for favorite. I don't recall Beetlenose ever being that bad. More arrogant, but never mean. Been awhile since I read the books though. Plus he turned out to be a bona-fide good guy. Foxheart was awful to everyone, but again, I feel like she's arrogant and clique-y. Her meanness is more of a personality trait. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's better than directly targeting a weaker cat and picking on them. Foxheart just hates everyone equally. Same with her friend Lizardstripe. Shrewclaw is just your generic bully. He's a stuck-up ass who picks on weaker kids because it amuses him. With Foxheart, I could find some charm in her hatred of the world, but with Shrew I just feel annoyed with the total cliche of it all. Thistleclaw I agree with vectoring on; he's not really in the same class as the rest of these guys. I think this is because Thistle is an actual villain, whereas the rest of these guys are just distractions from the main plot. Like, you would have a really hard time calling Foxheart or Beetlenose a villain (they're just not antagonistic enough, plot-wise), but you would have no issue calling Thistleclaw so. I disagree with you. I consider Shrewclaw to be an antagonist because his bullying of Tallstar was an obstacle for Tallstar to overcome. The reason why I believe that Shrewclaw was an antagonist is because the word antagonist comes from the Greek word antagōnizesthai, which means “struggle against.” An antagonist is anything that poses an obstacle or problem for the protagonist.
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 3, 2020 16:28:55 GMT -5
Shrewclaw for biggest bully, Beetlenose for favorite. I don't recall Beetlenose ever being that bad. More arrogant, but never mean. Been awhile since I read the books though. Plus he turned out to be a bona-fide good guy. Foxheart was awful to everyone, but again, I feel like she's arrogant and clique-y. Her meanness is more of a personality trait. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's better than directly targeting a weaker cat and picking on them. Foxheart just hates everyone equally. Same with her friend Lizardstripe. Shrewclaw is just your generic bully. He's a stuck-up ass who picks on weaker kids because it amuses him. With Foxheart, I could find some charm in her hatred of the world, but with Shrew I just feel annoyed with the total cliche of it all. Thistleclaw I agree with vectoring on; he's not really in the same class as the rest of these guys. I think this is because Thistle is an actual villain, whereas the rest of these guys are just distractions from the main plot. Like, you would have a really hard time calling Foxheart or Beetlenose a villain (they're just not antagonistic enough, plot-wise), but you would have no issue calling Thistleclaw so. I disagree with you. I consider Shrewclaw to be an antagonist because his bullying of Tallstar was an obstacle for Tallstar to overcome. The reason why I believe that Shrewclaw was an antagonist is because the word antagonist comes from the Greek word antagōnizesthai, which means “struggle against.” An antagonist is anything that poses an obstacle or problem for the protagonist. He may antagonize Tallstar, but he is not the antagonist. Those are two very different things. Shrewclaw is incredibly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things to Tallstar's characterization, and as such cannot really be considered the antagonist. By the way, bringing up the Greek root of a word doesn't really help your case. The word cynic derives from a Greek word for dog-like, it's entirely irrelevant to its modern meaning though.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 3, 2020 18:06:55 GMT -5
Shrewclaw for biggest bully, Beetlenose for favorite. I don't recall Beetlenose ever being that bad. More arrogant, but never mean. Been awhile since I read the books though. Plus he turned out to be a bona-fide good guy. Foxheart was awful to everyone, but again, I feel like she's arrogant and clique-y. Her meanness is more of a personality trait. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's better than directly targeting a weaker cat and picking on them. Foxheart just hates everyone equally. Same with her friend Lizardstripe. Shrewclaw is just your generic bully. He's a stuck-up ass who picks on weaker kids because it amuses him. With Foxheart, I could find some charm in her hatred of the world, but with Shrew I just feel annoyed with the total cliche of it all. Thistleclaw I agree with vectoring on; he's not really in the same class as the rest of these guys. I think this is because Thistle is an actual villain, whereas the rest of these guys are just distractions from the main plot. Like, you would have a really hard time calling Foxheart or Beetlenose a villain (they're just not antagonistic enough, plot-wise), but you would have no issue calling Thistleclaw so. I disagree with you. I consider Shrewclaw to be an antagonist because his bullying of Tallstar was an obstacle for Tallstar to overcome. The reason why I believe that Shrewclaw was an antagonist is because the word antagonist comes from the Greek word antagōnizesthai, which means “struggle against.” An antagonist is anything that poses an obstacle or problem for the protagonist. I... never said Shrewclaw wasn't an antagonist?
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