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Post by thehiddenicewolf on Dec 19, 2019 9:56:21 GMT -5
I'm kinda confused as during the battle it sorta hints that he fought beside his clanmates but it's not confirmed, however, right beforehand he's seen being eagar to fight the clans.
On an unrelated note, is it confirmed that Sunstrike fought for the dark forest? just cuz we never really hear from her afterwards.
Let me know your thoughts!
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Post by *Faith* on Dec 19, 2019 17:00:59 GMT -5
This is from the wiki for Hollowflight:
"As the Dark Forest announces its plans for attacking the Clans, Hollowflight speaks out that the Clans had been flawed for a long time, and they would show them that only the strongest would survive. Hearing such words makes Ivypool feel ill, and wonders how he could believe the Dark Forest murderers. During the battle, Hollowflight fights alongside the Clan cats, swelling the ranks."
For Sunstrike:
"When she and Minnowtail realize what the Place of No Stars is planning, they're horrified. Sunstrike states that she can't believe that she didn't know the Dark Forest was planning an attack on the Clans, and that she didn't figure it out. During the battle, she is briefly seen attacking a Dark Forest cat."
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Post by halogen on Dec 20, 2019 8:48:54 GMT -5
Remember that at that point the DF was killing anyone who objected to then, so he could have been lying about his enthusiasm for attacking the Clans.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Dec 20, 2019 16:00:55 GMT -5
god the dark forest were written so......stupidly
why would they think any cat would help em?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 16:24:19 GMT -5
god the dark forest were written so......stupidly why would they think any cat would help em? Some cats did help them, so their thoughts weren't too far-fetched And when they were alive, most of them were traitors to their clans |
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Post by halogen on Dec 20, 2019 16:46:12 GMT -5
The problem with the DF is that if you want to write a manipulative villain/group of villains you have to put them in a society where there is enough conflict already and enough dissatisfied individuals already that there's something to manipulate. The Dark Forest was just going for cats with issues of petty jealousy or who wanted to fight better but didn't feel alienated from their society or anything, just idiots who wanted to fight better. The DF was supposed to set itself up as a new Clan, one that wouldn't judge you like your old Clan, but of the actual apprentices, there were barely any of them who actually came off as feeling they didn't belong in their Clan, and instead of showing why the DF might be welcoming to the cats in them (welcoming doesn't have to mean nice or nonviolent, plenty of real life gangs, etc. can be violent and threatening to those who try to leave or show disloyalty, but there are also real reasons why people feel like they belong there). They just were too blatantly "we're evil" and not the end of interesting evil that might have some charm for a rebellious and disaffected young cat, just boring, purposeless evil that no one could plausibly identify with, to the point of doing things like having their apprentices kill each other just to show how evil they are, even though Ivypool and Antpelt were both apparently loyal, were not being punished in any way or anything, and would be valuable for the battle, they just wanted to kill one of their own allies because they are nonsensically EVIL. The problem isn't even the whole "they are literally the worst most evil cats in the afterlife" thing, because I'm sure if in real life some of the worst humans who are currently dead were training people in the afterlife, some people would unfortunately join up (look at just how many people they are in the real world who romanticize the worst people in history...), it could have been perfectly believable if they had set up the existing fault lines in the Clans' society, show why the DF was appealing, and make the DF have an actual goal, goals, or even an inconsistent mix of goals since they have so many leaders, as long as they are capable of acting practically rather than doing evil things just for the sake of being evil even if it makes things worse for their cause.
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Post by vectoring34 on Dec 23, 2019 3:17:50 GMT -5
The problem with the DF is that if you want to write a manipulative villain/group of villains you have to put them in a society where there is enough conflict already and enough dissatisfied individuals already that there's something to manipulate. The Dark Forest was just going for cats with issues of petty jealousy or who wanted to fight better but didn't feel alienated from their society or anything, just idiots who wanted to fight better. The DF was supposed to set itself up as a new Clan, one that wouldn't judge you like your old Clan, but of the actual apprentices, there were barely any of them who actually came off as feeling they didn't belong in their Clan, and instead of showing why the DF might be welcoming to the cats in them (welcoming doesn't have to mean nice or nonviolent, plenty of real life gangs, etc. can be violent and threatening to those who try to leave or show disloyalty, but there are also real reasons why people feel like they belong there). They just were too blatantly "we're evil" and not the end of interesting evil that might have some charm for a rebellious and disaffected young cat, just boring, purposeless evil that no one could plausibly identify with, to the point of doing things like having their apprentices kill each other just to show how evil they are, even though Ivypool and Antpelt were both apparently loyal, were not being punished in any way or anything, and would be valuable for the battle, they just wanted to kill one of their own allies because they are nonsensically EVIL. The problem isn't even the whole "they are literally the worst most evil cats in the afterlife" thing, because I'm sure if in real life some of the worst humans who are currently dead were training people in the afterlife, some people would unfortunately join up (look at just how many people they are in the real world who romanticize the worst people in history...), it could have been perfectly believable if they had set up the existing fault lines in the Clans' society, show why the DF was appealing, and make the DF have an actual goal, goals, or even an inconsistent mix of goals since they have so many leaders, as long as they are capable of acting practically rather than doing evil things just for the sake of being evil even if it makes things worse for their cause. Killing their apprentices serves the purpose of swelling their numbers since if you die in the Dark Forest, you lie in the Dark Forest forever. The real question is why not just kill all of them, as that would leave them stranded in the Dark Forest and having little other choice. |
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Post by halogen on Dec 23, 2019 12:06:58 GMT -5
The problem with the DF is that if you want to write a manipulative villain/group of villains you have to put them in a society where there is enough conflict already and enough dissatisfied individuals already that there's something to manipulate. The Dark Forest was just going for cats with issues of petty jealousy or who wanted to fight better but didn't feel alienated from their society or anything, just idiots who wanted to fight better. The DF was supposed to set itself up as a new Clan, one that wouldn't judge you like your old Clan, but of the actual apprentices, there were barely any of them who actually came off as feeling they didn't belong in their Clan, and instead of showing why the DF might be welcoming to the cats in them (welcoming doesn't have to mean nice or nonviolent, plenty of real life gangs, etc. can be violent and threatening to those who try to leave or show disloyalty, but there are also real reasons why people feel like they belong there). They just were too blatantly "we're evil" and not the end of interesting evil that might have some charm for a rebellious and disaffected young cat, just boring, purposeless evil that no one could plausibly identify with, to the point of doing things like having their apprentices kill each other just to show how evil they are, even though Ivypool and Antpelt were both apparently loyal, were not being punished in any way or anything, and would be valuable for the battle, they just wanted to kill one of their own allies because they are nonsensically EVIL. The problem isn't even the whole "they are literally the worst most evil cats in the afterlife" thing, because I'm sure if in real life some of the worst humans who are currently dead were training people in the afterlife, some people would unfortunately join up (look at just how many people they are in the real world who romanticize the worst people in history...), it could have been perfectly believable if they had set up the existing fault lines in the Clans' society, show why the DF was appealing, and make the DF have an actual goal, goals, or even an inconsistent mix of goals since they have so many leaders, as long as they are capable of acting practically rather than doing evil things just for the sake of being evil even if it makes things worse for their cause. Killing their apprentices serves the purpose of swelling their numbers since if you die in the Dark Forest, you lie in the Dark Forest forever. The real question is why not just kill all of them, as that would leave them stranded in the Dark Forest and having little other choice. I was referring to Ivypool and Antpelt. Antpelt was already dead, so killing him again served no purpose then to just nonsensically show how evil the DF is. |
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