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Post by cloudheart on Apr 11, 2019 21:06:44 GMT -5
Traditional I have examples for on my website. $3 for index drawing/bust, $6 for full body sketchbook, extra $3 for color/per extra character. - I’m best with cats but can also do other animals, humanoids aren’t looking too bad I guess. Nothing sexual, can sorta do gore like talk to me and we’ll see, I’ve drawn one whole motorcycle in my life so I’ll even say that I’ll do mech but that’s also a dice roll.
((I also have a link to my Patreon in my signature))
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Post by 𝕊𝕚𝕝𝕧𝕖𝕣𝕥𝕒𝕚𝕝 on Aug 18, 2019 13:58:01 GMT -5
Hi! The only way I can pay at the moment is by cash on this forum, I’m rlly sorry but I hope this is ok Silvertail! (Hopefully the name on the pic ;D Lightgrey-White tabby she-cat with white socks, cute nose and sapphire blue calming eyes. Feel free to customise from there with flowers or whatever Price?
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Post by cloudheart on Aug 18, 2019 17:58:04 GMT -5
Hi! The only way I can pay at the moment is by cash on this forum, I’m rlly sorry but I hope this is ok Silvertail! (Hopefully the name on the pic ;D Lightgrey-White tabby she-cat with white socks, cute nose and sapphire blue calming eyes. Feel free to customise from there with flowers or whatever :heart: Price? I have no idea what the cash on this site is used for, but honestly I'm still taking things for practice work so yea I'll draw Silvertail for forum cash. If there's supposed to be a picture or link to a picture I'm not seeing it though. If there's no picture then I'll just need to know what kind of tabby you think of her as (classic/mackerel/ticked).
Is there any specific kind of pose you want her in? Full body or bust? If you don't have a pose, you could give me her main personality traits and I could figure out what to do for her.
I'll give you a price once you decide between full body or bust, since that'll give me an idea of how long it'll take me.
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Post by 𝕊𝕚𝕝𝕧𝕖𝕣𝕥𝕒𝕚𝕝 on Aug 19, 2019 4:01:41 GMT -5
Full body, tabby grey-white snowy fur with blue eyes.
Pick a pose I'm kinda looking for surprises ;3
She's creative, weird and funny
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Post by cloudheart on Aug 20, 2019 11:39:47 GMT -5
Alright I can work with that. 12 forum cash sound ok? I'll try to start on that tonight, we just moved in to a new place so I'm doing what I an between unpacking and job hunting.
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Post by cloudheart on Aug 21, 2019 0:30:54 GMT -5
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Post by cloudheart on Dec 14, 2019 16:45:07 GMT -5
Bumping for the latest update
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Post by tigercry on Dec 23, 2019 1:37:29 GMT -5
~Um...~
Dude, please don't take this as offensive, but your charging waaay too much for something like this...
IRL I'm a Graphic Designer and I charge $8/hr, which is really low for a designer with 5+ years of experience.
Now that I've given you some creditials, I want to go further into this. Your a good beginner, don't get me wrong, but charging $12 for a piece that is supposedly shaded but only has a shadow and very, very light almost non visible shading? Dude, that's a scam. Shading means creating a contrast between light and dark, not just giving some lazy lines that are darker than the main colors.
There's too many variables in all of these too, adding $3 for lining another character? You do realize that you're wracking up a ridiculous price over all and it's unfair toward the people that are pulling commissions from you.
Now don't take this as an insult to your piece since I have almost 9 years of experience in drawing, but I felt bad for 𝕊𝕚𝕝𝕧𝕖𝕣𝕥𝕒𝕚𝕝 and drew the commission myself for comparison.
I spent 2hrs on this, and with my commission rates it would be broken down like this: $8/hr x 2hrs + $1 Complete Piece not sketch (with soft shading, background, details) Total: $17
This is a casual piece, meaning it's not highly detailed with perfect proportions, so I don't charge the extra $1/hr. However, do you see the difference? I love your piece don't get me wrong, they eyes are adorable and it's a goofy pose, but I wouldn't pay $12+ for it.
It's the artist's job to make sure a client is happy with their piece above whatever you earn from the commission. It's also our job to make sure we're charging appropriately for our skill, the time it takes to complete, while also remaining flexible and able to bend our rules and rates for those who need us to.
Again, I know I'm coming off harshly, but I just want you to understand where I'm coming from. I'm up to talking back and forth with you if you'd like, but I just had to get this off of my chest.
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Post by Fernshiine on Dec 23, 2019 21:18:46 GMT -5
I see where you're coming from and while it is a bit...pricey, it really is up to the artist to determine the worth of their products. Some people might genuinely need the money if they come from a poorer background. I, myself, only charge for things on DA. Usually I keep mine cheap (20-50pts=0.20-0.50 in money) but I think it really depends on the artist as well as who's willing to pay for the art. I really think it's in the eye of the beholder in this case. If I made lots of money I'd probably buy this offer. But I can see how you'd think it's expensive. I agree that it is, to a degree, but I would still say it's in the eye of whoever is buying it or selling it. Art isn't something I'd say you can scam people with. They see the art with their own eyes and decide if it's worth the price or not.
This is kinda stuff I've been told by others too. I think this is expensive for me but if someone wants to buy it it is worth the price.
As for the person selling it you might get more sales if you lower the prices but at the same time I suppose if someone will pay you for your prices without complaint it is, in the end, worth it.
It's the choice of the buyer and seller.
Sorry. Heheh. I'm shy but I felt like saying something.
-Raven
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Post by tigercry on Dec 23, 2019 23:10:22 GMT -5
Your opinion is noted, but I'm still going to be stubborn about this because as a professional designer this whole thing makes me uncomfortable and I'd like to remain civil To each their own Xd
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Post by cloudheart on Jan 2, 2020 22:04:48 GMT -5
Ok my thoughts are all over the place so I'm sorry if my points don't follow in order of how you've put out your concerns.
Silvertail was going to pay me in the currency from this site, which is worthless but I needed practice so I agreed. They never even let me know if they'd seen the piece and I never got "paid".
It took me over two hours to even do her piece. That was with deciding the pose, looking up reference photos, deciding the fur pattern, and the colors..because I was working from next to nothing. Based between my current rate of $9 for a flat piece(which isn't even what she was charged) and your rate, I'd say my lower quality piece was fine.
There was a 4 month difference between when Silver got their piece and when I edited the top post with a very new example that I drew to be an example. The final drawing would've taken over 4 hours if I wasn't counting the time I took to edit things/figure out what I was even charging for.
Honestly no, the shading done on my example isn't great. The example for the "shaded" isn't even done, the background isn't even "complex". I shouldn't have used it in my example but I did. Anyone actually wanting shading would've gotten effort compared to the 5 minutes I used after 5 hours of work. I should have reflected what someone would be paying for, but when you're working 12 hour shifts you cut some losses because you know you won't open your laptop for another 3 days and by then you might not want to do anything with the art you absolutely aren't paying for and you just want to sleep.
I don't charge by time at all because of how often I get distracted or spend looking up references. I charge just that flat rate so someone can add up everything they might want and know exactly what they'll be paying. No matter what, I'm not charging enough for my time because if it's digital and more than the sketch it will take me over an hour to do. By the way, any extra characters are just that first $3, it's not like I'm adding 3 to draw and 3 to color. A whole extra body is most likely going to be another hour, so I believe just an extra 3 bucks is pretty fair. These are also for any amount of body, I don't charge by headshot/half/full/super complex like I've seen a lot of people do. On that note, I see other people who charge $25 for a full detailed bust, so I'd say I'm fine to charge $24 for 4 full body characters and a complex background that would have actual effort put into the shading.
Finally, I hope you don't go around doing this to everyone you deem is "overpricing". I'm lucky I have quick & safe coping mechanisms and know I can keep leaving this post and coming back when I've calmed down. I'm lucky that after this I'll vent to a friend once about this and then be done. And I'll go back to doing what I do, which is underpricing the crap out of myself, because trust me I look and cross-reference a lot of other people's commission pages to make sure I'm not overpricing.
If I were younger, if I were an actual beginner like you assumed and not someone who's been drawing for 16 years and is just better with traditional than digital..I would have been actually upset. Heck before I took a second to calm down and read through everything I thought about deleting this whole page anyway just to avoid doing exactly what I did. I might've just stopped drawing altogether. Because if my art wasn't good enough to be charging less than minimum wage based on what someone with "credentials" said then obviously I should drop it. Because trust me I know people who think like that. I have a friend who is constantly second guessing whether or no they're actually good enough and if this had been them (though their art is actually way better because they practice digital all the time so it wouldn't have been) they would've stopped. They would've withdrawn and it would've taken months to get them to start putting their art back up online, if we were lucky.
I don't charge upfront, I haven't even gotten any business aside from Silver if you haven't noticed, and even if I had then that would mean that someone else did think my prices weren't too high. Someone looking for art will tell you when they think it's high and then they'll move on. The last thing anyone needs is someone not even looking for an artist to tell them that, just because they think their profession gives them that right.
At this point, now that I am done being civil, good job spending 2 hours on a very good drawing for someone who likely won't see it because they haven't been on since September. Thanks for using my commission page to show me up when you could have very well messaged both me and her privately.
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Post by tigercry on Jan 3, 2020 14:30:09 GMT -5
~Subject~
I didn't make the piece to show off Cloudheart. If you must know, I felt bad and drew it because I WANTED TO not because I was getting paid for it. I drew the piece to draw the piece, not get it publicized, nor get paid, nor show it off. I was being very civil and polite. You didn't say how many years you've been drawing so excuse me for assuming you were a beginner. I admit, I assumed too much and that wasn't very kind of me, but at the same time I wasn't saying that I'm better than you, because I don't know what you're like IRL and so I wouldn't know all of the talents you have.
If you want me to delete the posts then I will, because I don't appreciate being attacked in return. I have no problem deleting it all and just forgetting about it. Because my intention was not to piss you off and make you drop you commissions. I was just explaining with examples (like a logical person) how I believe it's overpriced. Granted I've talked to a few people about this because yes, it does bother me, but not online and none of them believe that you're a bad artist as you accuse of me saying. You're not a bad artist. You just need more practice, just like me and every other artist alive. No artist is the best and I wholeheartedly know that I'm not the best out there. Heck, I have a page here where I practice sketching via requests and occasionally full pieces. If you want proof of my skill (which is not beginner level mind you) you're free to look there and if it'll make you feel better, trash talk it and me too.
Again, I never meant to piss you off and everything. I just wanted to point out how I feel about it and have a civil conversation about it. Not read a rant that's orientated in an insulting way toward me with no backing up of the claims.
As for Silvertail not paying you, they might not be satisfied with the piece. Either way, check your balance. I paid the forum cash for Silvertail. You should've gotten 120 forum cash from me. I apologize and am open for a civil conversation if you're up for it.
Have a good day and I apolgize, Tigercry.
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Post by Fernshiine on Jan 4, 2020 16:12:42 GMT -5
Ok my thoughts are all over the place so I'm sorry if my points don't follow in order of how you've put out your concerns. Silvertail was going to pay me in the currency from this site, which is worthless but I needed practice so I agreed. They never even let me know if they'd seen the piece and I never got "paid". It took me over two hours to even do her piece. That was with deciding the pose, looking up reference photos, deciding the fur pattern, and the colors..because I was working from next to nothing. Based between my current rate of $9 for a flat piece(which isn't even what she was charged) and your rate, I'd say my lower quality piece was fine. There was a 4 month difference between when Silver got their piece and when I edited the top post with a very new example that I drew to be an example. The final drawing would've taken over 4 hours if I wasn't counting the time I took to edit things/figure out what I was even charging for. Honestly no, the shading done on my example isn't great. The example for the "shaded" isn't even done, the background isn't even "complex". I shouldn't have used it in my example but I did. Anyone actually wanting shading would've gotten effort compared to the 5 minutes I used after 5 hours of work. I should have reflected what someone would be paying for, but when you're working 12 hour shifts you cut some losses because you know you won't open your laptop for another 3 days and by then you might not want to do anything with the art you absolutely aren't paying for and you just want to sleep. I don't charge by time at all because of how often I get distracted or spend looking up references. I charge just that flat rate so someone can add up everything they might want and know exactly what they'll be paying. No matter what, I'm not charging enough for my time because if it's digital and more than the sketch it will take me over an hour to do. By the way, any extra characters are just that first $3, it's not like I'm adding 3 to draw and 3 to color. A whole extra body is most likely going to be another hour, so I believe just an extra 3 bucks is pretty fair. These are also for any amount of body, I don't charge by headshot/half/full/super complex like I've seen a lot of people do. On that note, I see other people who charge $25 for a full detailed bust, so I'd say I'm fine to charge $24 for 4 full body characters and a complex background that would have actual effort put into the shading. Finally, I hope you don't go around doing this to everyone you deem is "overpricing". I'm lucky I have quick & safe coping mechanisms and know I can keep leaving this post and coming back when I've calmed down. I'm lucky that after this I'll vent to a friend once about this and then be done. And I'll go back to doing what I do, which is underpricing the crap out of myself, because trust me I look and cross-reference a lot of other people's commission pages to make sure I'm not overpricing. If I were younger, if I were an actual beginner like you assumed and not someone who's been drawing for 16 years and is just better with traditional than digital..I would have been actually upset. Heck before I took a second to calm down and read through everything I thought about deleting this whole page anyway just to avoid doing exactly what I did. I might've just stopped drawing altogether. Because if my art wasn't good enough to be charging less than minimum wage based on what someone with "credentials" said then obviously I should drop it. Because trust me I know people who think like that. I have a friend who is constantly second guessing whether or no they're actually good enough and if this had been them (though their art is actually way better because they practice digital all the time so it wouldn't have been) they would've stopped. They would've withdrawn and it would've taken months to get them to start putting their art back up online, if we were lucky. I don't charge upfront, I haven't even gotten any business aside from Silver if you haven't noticed, and even if I had then that would mean that someone else did think my prices weren't too high. Someone looking for art will tell you when they think it's high and then they'll move on. The last thing anyone needs is someone not even looking for an artist to tell them that, just because they think their profession gives them that right. At this point, now that I am done being civil, good job spending 2 hours on a very good drawing for someone who likely won't see it because they haven't been on since September. Thanks for using my commission page to show me up when you could have very well messaged both me and her privately. I'm a beginner myself. I don't charge for real currency (too young legally and I have the same reasoning as you) and I would totally have paid you for it! I think you should charge whatever you feel yourself is worth it. I don't think it was overpriced, really, because I have seen actual overpriced stuff (someone charged $75 for a gif that I could've made probably in a short amount of time). I think you are a good artist and if you feel like your art is worth as much as you charge and people are willing to buy it, do it! I am a cheap artist on DeviantArt myself because I know I'm a beginner. I have commissions up to motivate myself. If I were to raise the prices it would be because I suffer from migraines (otherwise I'd be online more) and it makes it extra effort for me to draw with such a painful and constant condition.
Looking at it again I honestly think you had very logical pricing! Like I said I'm only 50 or 60 points on DA because I'm a beginner, which would translate to 50 or 60 cents in real money. Sometimes I charge 100 points ($1) for my commissions. If I was a more popular artist I'd charge more. I only even charge that much for full on writing commissions.
Anyway it is up to the artist to decide what their art is worth, as well as the people buying art. Me? I think your art is easily worth what it is. Overpriced would be, like, $40 or something like that. I'd say keep selling it!
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