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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 15:13:21 GMT -5
So as everyone already knows, Warriors has a long history of disabled cats not becoming (or staying) warriors. Longtail, Jayfeather, Snowkit, Cinderpelt and Briarlight are the first to pop to mind but honesty I think there must be more.
I tend to side with the people who are unhappy with how these characters are treated and how they are dismissed from the warrior lifestyle. However, one thing that has always bugged me is that there seem to be very little suggestions on what these cats could actually do. As much as I believe every cat, disabled or not, should have the right to try becoming a warrior if they wish, there's no denying that it's going to be a very difficult process.
So-what do you think? If you were a Clan leader, would you allow a severely disabled cat to become a warrior, or would you suggest they find another place in the Clan? If they were to become warriors, how would you deal with training them?
Personally I think if I were leader I would let Snowkit become a warrior, and teach him to see the things his deafness does not allow him to hear (watching the leaves beneath your paws to test how loud your pawsteps are, watching for birds flying away to warn you of incoming enemies, etc).
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Post by Sea Drops by a Bird on Mar 17, 2019 16:38:47 GMT -5
Hmm. This is a very tricky subject, but ultimately I would handle it on a case by case basis. First we have to remove our natural human bias of wanting everyone to be equal and have a fair shot which is why we tend to think it's wrong when cats who are injured or blinded etc. don't get to become/remain warriors; they live in the wild. It's just not practical (depending on the disability) for them to be full fledged warriors.
For example a fully blind cat can't participate in a battle. But I don't like cats being forced to retire or become medicine cat's simply because they are disabled and not because they want to, though when it comes to them retiring it also depends on their age. Longtail was a young warrior when he retired because he was blinded but some cats are a lot older. Hmm. You really have to look at this on a case by case basis because for example Briarlight has a broken spine and her hindlegs don't work. There's not a whole lot she can do and she needs round the clock care that may not be possible if she lived in a clan with one medicine cat who wasn't Jayfeather or Leafpool.
Some disabilities you can still work with, like Crookedstar and Deadfoot. Others like Snowkit's are a lot trickier- I mean he died because a hawk swooped into camp and snatched him up and he didn't hear it. But if that hadn't happened I think he could have still been able to hunt effectively; at least ground dwelling prey where hearing isn't really needed. He could even fish if he wanted to learn to do so. I don't know how well he would fair in battle but I don't see him being deaf preventing him from completely being a warrior, albeit one with limited capabilities.
Blind cats are different because hunting would be a major problem; there's no real way to sneak up on a living breathing target when you can't see them. Smell will bring you near it and so will hearing, but if you can't see where it is you can't catch it. Crippled cats it would depend on their capabilities.
Really it has to be decided on a case by case basis (i've said this like 30 times lol). This is probably the most interesting topic I've seen on these forums. There are so few avenues for a clan cat to take that there really isn't another role they can fill in their clan if they can't be a warrior. That's probably why the Erin's tend to keep disabled cats to a minimum and only introduce them for plot related reasons.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 18, 2019 11:39:16 GMT -5
Depends on the specific disability.
Disabilities like Crookedstar's or Brightheart's? Get back in the chair and keep being a warrior! Crookedstar's got an ugly face and trouble swallowing, but that's not very relevant to his duties as a warrior. Brightheart's lacks in peripheral vision, but ultimately she's still able to see just fine in her remaining eye. She only needs a little adjustment.
Disabilities like Deadfoot or Cinderpelt? Case by case basis. It's possible for a cat missing use of one leg to continue to be successful, but depending on the nature of it, it might simply be very uncomfortable and painful for them to be a warrior. Theoretically possible, but perhaps more trouble than it's worth depending on the cat.
Disabilities like Snowkit? He could tag along on patrols as extra muscle, but he'd arguably be putting himself at great risk if he misses orders to retreat. I lean towards allowing him to hang around at the back of a patrol, but given the attitudes in Warriors towards being at the back of the line all the time, he might simply consider that personally dishonorable and decide to opt out on principle.
Disabilities like Jayfeather or Longtail? It's not happening. One can't fight without the ability to see and even hunting is incredibly difficult.
Disabilities like Briarlight? She could legitimately die if she does one thing wrong and doesn't have constant care. Definitely not, for her own sake.
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Post by streamflower on Mar 18, 2019 13:06:50 GMT -5
Basically what everyones been saying, case-by-case basis.
If I was a leader I wouldn't want to put any of my cats at a significantly higher risk than any of their other clanmates, so that needs to be taken into account. Furthermore, what do the cats themselves want?
Jayfeather wanted to be a warrior, that was clear--but because he was blind he wasn't able to. Maybe instead of just being a medicine cat he could go out onto patrols, do scent tracking, all of that. We know that he has heightened senses so it's possible he could do basic warrior duties without necessarily fighting. For instance, he is a pseudo-mentor to all apprentices in that he teaches them how to scent and listen for prey even in the most difficult of times. While he wouldn't be fighting he'd still be able to be a pseudo-mentor and participate in some warrior duties while still taking into consideration his strengths.
Snowkit is a bit more difficult because we really never saw him at an older age that would suggest what his abilities allow him to do; it's entirely possible he could talk, or at the very least "read lips" and see what other cats are saying that way. Given that he does respond in saying "S'all right," it's clear that he was the ability to understand what cats are saying to an extent, and can repeat it. If anything I'd put him in a similar position to Jayfeather with scenting/tracking/border patrolling, but potentially with fighting involved. While he might not be able to hear, he can definitely scent and feel tremors in the ground (which he would be more likely to sense given his lack of hearing and the sensitivity of cats whiskers).
Crookedstar, Brightheart, Deadfoot--they're all good. They want to be warriors, they still have the ability to function and fight, so they're set in my book. Cinderpelt is a bit tricker because he back leg was mangled--however, I wouldn't count her out. While she is noted to "hobble" it does become apparent that she becomes adept at using her leg in spite of the issues she was with it. I think if they'd just waited she'd probably be able to train to become a warrior similar to Deadfoot. I'd have just waited and seen rather than allowed a snap judgement on her case.
Briarlight--I'd probably keep her doing what she's doing and keep her confined to camp with the exception of bringing her into the forest occasionally when it's deemed safe. If she could use three of her legs? Maybe. But to have her entire back half crushed and unable to move? That's really not something that can be worked around. Give her in-camp duties that she wants and is comfortable with, but also pay attention to her needs and the like.
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