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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 15:07:59 GMT -5
I often see people here claiming “author bias” makes either a character they like look bad, and a character they don’t like look good. I really don’t get this argument. This is often what people come up as an excuse to ignore events and logic and illegitimize events that happened because they don’t fit their narrative. I see this as a really weak argument and gets in the way of actual discussion and debate. This place would be better if people quit using this in their arguments.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 10, 2019 15:57:24 GMT -5
No...? Author bias is real and it clearly exists. Crowfeather's Trial? Isn't it true that the erin who wrote that prefers feathertail over leafpool and that's why leafpool isnt written as crowfeather's true love anymore, but feathertail is again? that's bias.
I can assure you there's more bias out there, but i dont know which erin wrote certain books. it's not a bad argument. it EXISTS. especially since there's so many different people writing these books, their personal opinions on things can influence the book they are writing. having multiple writers? there's BOUND to be bias.
you shouldnt deny that it exists because it clearly does. don't be upset that plenty of people like to question things in meta and dont just passively accept things that are written and handed to them on a silver platter narratively.
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Post by Moonblazer on Mar 10, 2019 16:02:55 GMT -5
No...? Author bias is real and it clearly exists. Crowfeather's Trial? Isn't it true that the erin who wrote that prefers feathertail over leafpool and that's why leafpool isnt written as crowfeather's true love anymore, but feathertail is again? that's bias. I can assure you there's more bias out there, but i dont know which erin wrote certain books. it's not a bad argument. it EXISTS. especially since there's so many different people writing these books, their personal opinions on things can influence the book they are writing. having multiple writers? there's BOUND to be bias. you shouldnt deny that it exists because it clearly does. don't be upset that plenty of people like to question things in meta and dont just passively accept things that are written and handed to them on a silver platter narratively. This exactly. Especially when the authors change a character’s entire character than what they had before. While I’m less inclined to call huge bias on CT due to Breezepelt still being pretty in character temprament-wise, I do see why people would claim author bias on the book for many other factors. It’s aggrivating when good character developmemt is thrown away in favor of other characters to look good.
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Post by VIXENCLAW on Mar 10, 2019 16:42:49 GMT -5
Author bias clearly exists.
Like seriously, wasn't Ashfur placed in StarClan instead of the Dark Forest just because Vicky liked him / thought the fandom did??? Author bias leads to bad writing, and this is why people usually bring it into debates. If authors like a certain character too much they can go overboard with trying to 'save' the character from something bad happening to it and excuse these characters for horrible actions that other, less favored characters were condemned for. Ashfur is a clear example of that, if Vicky didn't care for him as much he would've been dealt with logically. You can tell which cats in Warriors the authors/editors are bias over, and it happens in multiple different fandoms.
I know it can be annoying when it's brought up in debates and discussions, but author bias is a pretty big problem at times. It makes everything less realistic and makes me usually hate the characters the authors like, because they often easily and unrealistically excused from sometimes unforgivable crimes or stupid actions.
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 16:43:35 GMT -5
No...? Author bias is real and it clearly exists. Crowfeather's Trial? Isn't it true that the erin who wrote that prefers feathertail over leafpool and that's why leafpool isnt written as crowfeather's true love anymore, but feathertail is again? that's bias. I can assure you there's more bias out there, but i dont know which erin wrote certain books. it's not a bad argument. it EXISTS. especially since there's so many different people writing these books, their personal opinions on things can influence the book they are writing. having multiple writers? there's BOUND to be bias. you shouldnt deny that it exists because it clearly does. don't be upset that plenty of people like to question things in meta and dont just passively accept things that are written and handed to them on a silver platter narratively. I would have less of an issue if people would present it as their implications vs facts. There’s nothing factual about feeling the authors are biased.
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Post by Kibui on Mar 10, 2019 16:52:54 GMT -5
No...? Author bias is real and it clearly exists. Crowfeather's Trial? Isn't it true that the erin who wrote that prefers feathertail over leafpool and that's why leafpool isnt written as crowfeather's true love anymore, but feathertail is again? that's bias. The only opinion Cherith, the Erin who wrote CT, ever voiced about the Night/Leaf/Feather/Crow relationship was this: and even then there never was any clarity in the books who Crow loved the most/who is his true love before CT so sorry but I really don't see how this is bias
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 10, 2019 16:56:52 GMT -5
Author bias clearly exists. Like seriously, wasn't Ashfur placed in StarClan instead of the Dark Forest just because Vicky liked him / thought the fandom did??? Author bias leads to bad writing, and this is why people usually bring it into debates. If authors like a certain character too much they can go overboard with trying to 'save' the character from something bad happening to it and excuse these characters for horrible actions that other, less favored characters were condemned for. Ashfur is a clear example of that, if Vicky didn't care for him as much he would've been dealt with logically. You can tell which cats in Warriors the authors/editors are bias over, and it happens in multiple different fandoms. I know it can be annoying when it's brought up in debates and discussions, but author bias is a pretty big problem at times. It makes everything less realistic and makes me usually hate the characters the authors like, because they often easily and unrealistically excused from sometimes unforgivable crimes or stupid actions. just remembered that vicky loved cinderpelt so much that the whole "possession of cinderheart" plot existed because of that
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 16:58:24 GMT -5
Sounds more like people are complaining that the authors giving them what they want
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 17:01:00 GMT -5
Sounds more like people are complaining that the authors giving them what they want No offense, but you're complaining just as much as we are, lol.
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 17:04:29 GMT -5
Sounds more like people are complaining that the authors giving them what they want No offense, but you're complaining just as much as we are, lol. This is a single thread in which I’m discussing an issue I have. The author bias complaining seems to find its way into thread nowadays. So no, I’m not doing that, “lol”.
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 10, 2019 17:06:20 GMT -5
Author's bias does indeed exist and can affect the storyline/explanations on the characters and whatnot. Every writer has some form of bias with the characters they write, even I do with my own Warriors fics I'm working on and that's of my own characters but that doesn't make it less of a thing. It's hard to avoid as a writer tbh, but it's not a good thing to have because that bias can sometimes lead to bad writing which is why people are always saying they shouldn't let bias do the writing and smother it.
The Erins do have some form of bias. Assfur is in Starclan entirely because Vicky pitied him, Kate hated Squirrelflight back then and loved Leafpool and we have no idea if her opinion on Squirrelflight WILL change upon writing her SE like she said it might until after it's done, idk how Cherith is because nowadays she's the most silent Erin out there. But there's no doubt she has some biased opinions on things herself. Everyone does.
Just because people use "author's bias" as an excuse of why this or that happens doesn't make it automatically invalid. It's a real thing many many writers have, whether professional or fan writers, you shouldn't shrug it off as a possible reason when it's a legit thing. We shouldn't just "accept" that these things happen, if there's bias going on, even a reader can pick up on it.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 10, 2019 17:07:32 GMT -5
No offense, but you're complaining just as much as we are, lol. This is a single thread in which I’m discussing an issue I have. The author bias complaining seems to find its way into thread nowadays. So no, I’m not doing that, “lol”. u're the one complaining that not everyone is blindly accepting the story as it is without considering outside forces such as author bias. you do know that multiple writers means multiple opinions and ideas that will eventually contradict previous books, right?
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 17:10:23 GMT -5
This is a single thread in which I’m discussing an issue I have. The author bias complaining seems to find its way into thread nowadays. So no, I’m not doing that, “lol”. u're the one complaining that not everyone is blindly accepting the story as it is without considering outside forces such as author bias. you do know that multiple writers means multiple opinions and ideas that will eventually contradict previous books, right? I am aware of its existence. The issue I have is when people use it to create their own canon in their head, or as a complaint when bad things happen to their favorite characters, and good things happens to their least favorite characters
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Post by kinkajou on Mar 10, 2019 17:12:17 GMT -5
No...? Author bias is real and it clearly exists. Crowfeather's Trial? Isn't it true that the erin who wrote that prefers feathertail over leafpool and that's why leafpool isnt written as crowfeather's true love anymore, but feathertail is again? that's bias. I can assure you there's more bias out there, but i dont know which erin wrote certain books. it's not a bad argument. it EXISTS. especially since there's so many different people writing these books, their personal opinions on things can influence the book they are writing. having multiple writers? there's BOUND to be bias. you shouldnt deny that it exists because it clearly does. don't be upset that plenty of people like to question things in meta and dont just passively accept things that are written and handed to them on a silver platter narratively. I would have less of an issue if people would present it as their implications vs facts. There’s nothing factual about feeling the authors are biased. But...it is a fact that the authors are biased...
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 10, 2019 17:12:43 GMT -5
u're the one complaining that not everyone is blindly accepting the story as it is without considering outside forces such as author bias. you do know that multiple writers means multiple opinions and ideas that will eventually contradict previous books, right? I am aware of its existence. The issue I have is when people use it to create their own canon in their head, or as a complaint when bad things happen to their favorite characters, and good things happens to their least favorite characters similar thing is happening in another fandom i am in. okay, i get where you are coming from now that you say you know it exists, but when writers clearly chose their bias over actual plot or good writing, it CAN be noticeable. it's not as big an issue for warriors as compared to the other fandom i am in, but it exists in a lot of series.
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 17:15:20 GMT -5
I would have less of an issue if people would present it as their implications vs facts. There’s nothing factual about feeling the authors are biased. But...it is a fact that the authors are biased... But... I said I know it exists?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 17:17:40 GMT -5
No offense, but you're complaining just as much as we are, lol. This is a single thread in which I’m discussing an issue I have. The author bias complaining seems to find its way into thread nowadays. So no, I’m not doing that, “lol”. We are simply giving you our opinions. It's not complaining. It's criticizing/sharing opinions, pal. Not sure what else to tell you, but you're the only one who seems to have a problem with our "complaining"
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 17:24:21 GMT -5
This is a single thread in which I’m discussing an issue I have. The author bias complaining seems to find its way into thread nowadays. So no, I’m not doing that, “lol”. We are simply giving you our opinions. It's not complaining. It's criticizing/sharing opinions, pal. Not sure what else to tell you, but you're the only one who seems to have a problem with our "complaining" I don't bloody well care if anyone else agrees with me or not. Just stating how I feel. If you don't agree with my thoughts that's perfectly fine.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 17:30:21 GMT -5
We are simply giving you our opinions. It's not complaining. It's criticizing/sharing opinions, pal. Not sure what else to tell you, but you're the only one who seems to have a problem with our "complaining" I don't bloody well care if anyone else agrees with me or not. Just stating how I feel. If you don't agree with my thoughts that's perfectly fine. No one is being rude, man. You're sharing your opinion, so let us share ours. That's the whole point of this. Gonna back off since it seems like you're taking things personally at this point
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 17:32:43 GMT -5
I don't bloody well care if anyone else agrees with me or not. Just stating how I feel. If you don't agree with my thoughts that's perfectly fine. No one is being rude, man. You're sharing your opinion, so let us share ours. That's the whole point of this. Gonna back off since it seems like you're taking things personally at this point When did I say people were being rude? You don't seem to be following the argument or the thread at all.
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Post by Haze on Mar 10, 2019 17:38:58 GMT -5
I think that I understand your point, basically you have problem is with this...
"This character that I hate is doing well, it's clearly author bias".
Or
"This character that I like was f**** up, author bias obviously".
Author bias definitively exists but I think that people make it a bigger deal than it is.
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 17:41:07 GMT -5
I think that I understand your point, basically you have problem is with this... "This character that I hate is doing well, it's clearly author bias". Or "This character that I like was f**** up, author bias obviously". Author bias definitively exists but I think that people make it a bigger deal than it is. Stated it better than I did, thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 17:41:58 GMT -5
No one is being rude, man. You're sharing your opinion, so let us share ours. That's the whole point of this. Gonna back off since it seems like you're taking things personally at this point When did I say people were being rude? You don't seem to be following the argument or the thread at all. I'm just saying we complain because it's unfair some characters get more treatment than others. Like Cinderpelt for example. It's frustrating that she's back while others don't get a second chance. We are not complaining; we're criticising (Im on my phone so excuse typos) and people are going to "complain" in this topic.
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 17:44:23 GMT -5
When did I say people were being rude? You don't seem to be following the argument or the thread at all. I'm just saying we complain because it's unfair some characters get more treatment than others. Like Cinderpelt for example. It's frustrating that she's back while others don't get a second chance. We are not complaining; we're criticising (Im on my phone so excuse typos) and people are going to "complain" in this topic. It's not realistic to expect every character the fans want to get a second chance do, while they ones they feel don't deserve it, don't. The fans don't write the books. We have fan fictions for this stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 17:51:55 GMT -5
I'm just saying we complain because it's unfair some characters get more treatment than others. Like Cinderpelt for example. It's frustrating that she's back while others don't get a second chance. We are not complaining; we're criticising (Im on my phone so excuse typos) and people are going to "complain" in this topic. It's not realistic to expect every character the fans want to get a second chance do, while they ones they feel don't deserve it, don't. The fans don't write the books. We have fan fictions for this stuff. It's not that we want the authors to change what happened; we just want better writing quality. Cinderpelt's reincarnation was actually very well written at first, but it eventually became possession, and therefore, the whole concept of bringing her back was pointless and biased. I actually like Cinderheart, but I do find the writing about her handled rather poorly. She didn't need to be possessed by Cinderpelt. It was just an excuse to bring Vicky's favorite character back. We know we can't change anything, but we can rewrite better versions of the books. It's just frustrating how some characters get "special" treatment, like Leafpool not being fully punished and still being used as a medicine cat, or Dovewing crawling back to Tigerheart, giving them both a Super Edition. (And I love Leafpool and Dovewing!) I'll write a proper analysis on this later since I'm at work, but I hope this makes more sense why we're frustrated! Sorry for misunderstanding you a bit ago
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Post by kinkajou on Mar 10, 2019 17:52:13 GMT -5
But...it is a fact that the authors are biased... But... I said I know it exists? But you also said in the quoted post "There’s nothing factual about feeling the authors are biased." What does that mean, if not it's not a fact that the authors are biased, but a "feeling" or opinion or something?
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 10, 2019 17:56:47 GMT -5
But... I said I know it exists? But you also said in the quoted post "There’s nothing factual about feeling the authors are biased." What does that mean, if not it's not a fact that the authors are biased, but a "feeling" or opinion or something? Everyone is biased, including the authors, but when "author bias" is presented as fact to back up a claim which is derived from opinion, it's a lousy a form of evidence as it can't be quantified. Working Partners also come up with a lot of the stories, so we really don't know who came up with certain plotlines or scenes.
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#FFA887
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Papillon
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how lucky you are to have yourself
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Post by Papillon on Mar 10, 2019 18:04:09 GMT -5
Some people here are more biased than the authors will ever be
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 18:06:19 GMT -5
It depends on which type of argument this excuse is being used. When criticising the series Writing itself - It's perfectly valid. However when it comes 'In-lore' debates such as: What a character like as a parent, Dark Forest/Starclan etc.
Yes, people can bring up "Author bias" all they want - But in the end, it's pointless. It's doesn't change that fact the character still did it. Denying canon material doesn't get anyone anywhere. Onewhisker and Onestar feel inconsistent but doesn't change they're still the same characters.
Ashfur in Starclan. There's two explanations to it: Real Life reason or In-lore reason. When talking about weither he deserves that afterlife, it must be an 'in-lore' debate. Fans may speculate what it is: Starclan's favouritism towards Thunderclan, Starclan having no control of judgement, Starclan don't want to give the Dark Forest another Allie etc. Fans can theorize all they like. However, it's a fact Ashfur is canonly in Starclan. Nothing can change that but the books themselves.
The only exception, is when the canon contradicts itself. Then the Fan must make a sensible conclusion on which source is most invalid and discard it. Though I think this should only be done as a bare minimum and clearly contradicts - Not because it didn't fit with a specific fan's personal interpretation of a Character. For example, most can agree the Canon Series should be taken above as evidence then the Feild Guides.
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