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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2016 19:03:29 GMT -5
I'm not hating here, just discussing
Idk, but the way Breezepelt was never really punished for what he did... kinda bothers me.
I know real life isn't warriors, and warriors isn't real life... but if you commit a crime, you commit a crime. In a jury, having bad parents or a bad life doesn't give someone who's done something wrong a free ticket out of prison. Lawyers can persuade a judge to minimize a punishment- like decrease a sentence from 50 years to 20 years, or changing a sentence from life to 50 years- but the punishment is still there. If you kill someone, or try to kill someone, having a pity party won't send you home with just a warning- you get at least some form of punishment, even if it's as minimal as a 5-year sentence. A guy once stabbed someone, who survived, and he was lucky and got away with only a 20 year sentence, when he could have easily gotten life.
So the fact that the Erins are just like, whateves, he's gunna sit back, relax, start a family, and be a good guy now... just sorta bothers me. Yeah this is a kid's series, but I don't think kids should be taught that if you attempt murder, you'll be fine and make up for it afterwards without having to be punished. After all, your life sucked so you are completely justified in what you did anyway.
I do think the Erins teach a lot of good things in warriors. But I also think a lot of bad things are taught in it too.
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Post by Pupachu on Aug 17, 2016 19:23:21 GMT -5
That wlays bothered me too. I thought that he and Nightcloud left the Clans, but he's still in the allegiances...I reread the Last Hope during the weekend and he said some awful things, he really wanted the clans to end. All the other cats who supported the Dark Forest died except him. I don't think he could have changed :/
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Post by moonmasksunfrost on Aug 17, 2016 19:33:34 GMT -5
I hate how they excused him like that. o_o It's honestly kind of disturbing.
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 18, 2016 3:20:18 GMT -5
Any person in real life or character in the series would know that Breezepelt needs to be punished-severely. Except the Erins and Onestar apparently.
Maybe they think #Crowfeatherdidn'tloveenough? Breezepelt needs some one-on-one with Ashfur.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Aug 18, 2016 17:44:01 GMT -5
That wlays bothered me too. I thought that he and Nightcloud left the Clans, but he's still in the allegiances...I reread the Last Hope during the weekend and he said some awful things, he really wanted the clans to end. All the other cats who supported the Dark Forest died except him. I don't think he could have changed :/ Um no. There are still cats alive that tried with them. |
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Post by Pupachu on Aug 18, 2016 19:49:58 GMT -5
That wlays bothered me too. I thought that he and Nightcloud left the Clans, but he's still in the allegiances...I reread the Last Hope during the weekend and he said some awful things, he really wanted the clans to end. All the other cats who supported the Dark Forest died except him. I don't think he could have changed :/ Um no. There are still cats alive that tried with them. Oh there was? Who else did? I can only remember Redwillow right now and I know he died. |
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Aug 21, 2016 23:45:20 GMT -5
Um no. There are still cats alive that tried with them. Oh there was? Who else did? I can only remember Redwillow right now and I know he died. Wait. Do you mean trained I. The dark forest altogether or those that liked it? |
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Aug 22, 2016 0:47:59 GMT -5
Because Onestar forgave him. The Erins knew that he was evil.
It was also awknowledged in Dovewing's Silence when Dovewing was thinking that Breezepelt should not be forgiven because he actually attacked innocent cats.
Onestar probably forgave him so that WindClan doesn't look disloyal, especially since his leadership was partially against the Warrior Code. Also, he didn't attempt to murder any WindClan cats. Onestar has never really been that bright.
So while it is a little off-putting that he did not get the punishment he deserved, it was because Onestar, a terrrible leader probably did not want to look bad and not because the Erins thought he was innocent and deserved to get away.
And just because he has kits now doesn't mean he's redeemed. Who knows, maybe he'll train his kits to be evil and help him get revenge or something.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 22, 2016 1:04:40 GMT -5
Ya know...I'm not trying to be weird here. Don't get me wrong. But why didn't Jayfeather report Breezepelt for what he did, and have him confronted by the rest of the clans. Lol. I mean, he could have exposed him for trying to kill a medicine cat and queen but didn't for some weird reason.
While when he attacked Lionblaze, everyone was around to see, but again he wasn't really punished.
But my issue here isn't really Breezepelt, it's more on Crowfeather. Terrible dad figure and whatnot, also his past mistakes eventually ruining the lives of his son, and his three other kits. I also blame Leafpool though so don't worry.
My problem is if people are going to get angry at Breezepelt, then what about Ivypool and Hollyleaf, and I actually love both of those she-cats, to death. But Ivypool murdered another cat, twice, and Hollyleaf also murdered Ashfur. You can say it's for the greater good yeah, but murder is still murder. Not to mention Hollyleaf punished herself, but still got away scott free when she came back home, and Bramblestar lied for her. Something, I personally didn't like, then there's Ivypool, no one brought up the fact she murdered Antpelt, even if she was doing it to stay a spy.
Breezpelt was neglected by his father, and when the secret got out, he had to deal with the heat of his clan, similar to how Jayfeather and Lionblaze did when Hollyleaf left. But they had each other, and Breezepelt didn't really have anyone in the same sense. Just Nightcloud and maybe Heathertail, but no one to really understand him. It's then the Dark Forest took advantage of him, if you noticed, he wasn't in the Dark Forest, prior to the reveal of his father's lies and secrets. His father's neglect already made him vulnerable, and then the secret being revealed, Crowfeather also favoring Lionblaze over Breezepelt, is just salt being rubbed into the wound.
I'm not saying what Breezepelt did was right, but I also think that he wasn't exactly stable in the head either, and most of the blame lies with his father, and the irresponsible actions he did with Leafpool in the past. If Crowfeather was honestly a better mate and father, Nightcloud wouldn't even have to defend Breezepelt as much as she has too from him.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Aug 22, 2016 1:23:53 GMT -5
Ya know...I'm not trying to be weird here. Don't get me wrong. But why didn't Jayfeather report Breezepelt for what he did, and have him confronted by the rest of the clans. Lol. I mean, he could have exposed him for trying to kill a medicine cat and queen but didn't for some weird reason. I wondered that, too. But then I realized that it would not have done much good. Onestar wouldn't have believed him. I mean, he got really defensive when Jayfeather said that some of his warriors may be disloyal.While when he attacked Lionblaze, everyone was around to see, but again he wasn't really punished. But my issue here isn't really Breezepelt, it's more on Crowfeather. Terrible dad figure and whatnot, also his past mistakes eventually ruining the lives of his son, and his three other kits. I also blame Leafpool though so don't worry.
My problem is if people are going to get angry at Breezepelt, then what about Ivypool and Hollyleaf, and I actually love both of those she-cats, to death. But Ivypool murdered another cat, twice, and Hollyleaf also murdered Ashfur. You can say it's for the greater good yeah, but murder is still murder. Not to mention Hollyleaf punished herself, but still got away scott free when she came back home, and Bramblestar lied for her. Something, I personally didn't like, then there's Ivypool, no one brought up the fact she murdered Antpelt, even if she was doing it to stay a spy. Hollyleaf and Ivypool both showed regret for their actions while Breezepelt did not. Hollyleaf even punished herself. Ivypool's situation was different as well as she was in a life or death situation. Murdering was still wrong, but her decision made sense.Breezpelt was neglected by his father, and when the secret got out, he had to deal with the heat of his clan, similar to how Jayfeather and Lionblaze did when Hollyleaf left. But they had each other, and Breezepelt didn't really have anyone in the same sense. Just Nightcloud and maybe Heathertail, but no one to really understand him. It's then the Dark Forest took advantage of him, if you noticed, he wasn't in the Dark Forest, prior to the reveal of his father's lies and secrets. His father's neglect already made him vulnerable, and then the secret being revealed, Crowfeather also favoring Lionblaze over Breezepelt, is just salt being rubbed into the wound. I'm not saying what Breezepelt did was right, but I also think that he wasn't exactly stable in the head either, and most of the blame lies with his father, and the irresponsible actions he did with Leafpool in the past. If Crowfeather was honestly a better mate and father, Nightcloud wouldn't even have to defend Breezepelt as much as she has too from him. Nightcloud wasn't completely innocent either. She was encouraging Breezepelt to hate his father which only fed his vengeful fire. Most of the time, she was excusing Breezepelt and not defending him. And while his parents may have shaped his anger, it was Breezepelt who let his anger consume him. Some of the blame goes to Corwfeather, yes, but ultimately Breezepelt is responsible for his own actions.I honestly do like Breezepelt, but as a villain. He was evil because he chose to be evil and his bad decisions were his own. |
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 22, 2016 1:41:34 GMT -5
Well, that's true, but if he really is a villain, I'm interested to see how well he might be redeemed. In my book, he's an abuse victim, villain or not. I don't mind that the Erin's gave him a second chance, I still think he should have been at least punished, and I blame Onestar's horrible leadership as well, hence another reason why I think Mudclaw should have been leader, lol. But I want to see how he copes as a father as well, or how much he's possibly changed overall. But just because I find his actions to be understandable, doesn't mean I'm excusing them.
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 22, 2016 1:52:07 GMT -5
I'm not saying what Breezepelt did was right, but I also think that he wasn't exactly stable in the head either, and most of the blame lies with his father, and the irresponsible actions he did with Leafpool in the past. If Crowfeather was honestly a better mate and father, Nightcloud wouldn't even have to defend Breezepelt as much as she has too from him. Nightcloud wasn't completely innocent either. She was encouraging Breezepelt to hate his father which only fed his vengeful fire. Most of the time, she was excusing Breezepelt and not defending him. And while his parents may have shaped his anger, it was Breezepelt who let his anger consume him. Some of the blame goes to Corwfeather, yes, but ultimately Breezepelt is responsible for his own actions.While I agree with Breezepelt ultimately making his own decisions in becoming what he is now, a cat can only take so much before they will snap and act out. Especially since he's around that every day and can't really get away from it unless he moved clans or something. Crowfeather and Nightcloud's behaviour fuel eachother. The more Crowfeather ignored or belittled Breezepelt, the more Nightcloud would baby Breezepelt, the more Crowfeather would feel the need to point out Breezepelt's flaws,etc. It's a vicious cycle that wouldn't be easy to break. Which is why the two are honestly a horrible couple and parents. There's no way either of them would change their attitude towards their parenting or each other. That said, it does make the whole thing interesting and dynamic. |
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Post by darkforestwarrior on Aug 22, 2016 3:16:35 GMT -5
I feel like it's probably true that Breezepelt got away with too much, but I have to wonder what form of punishment they could even put onto him that would be appropriate. Things like physically harming him or telling him he can never have a family is just cruel and/or impractical. Something like putting him back onto apprentice duty is probably too light a punishment. The only thing I can think of maybe working is some form of banishment and even that I don't feel would exactly fuel much more than a fire of resentment from Breezepelt towards WindClan.
So in a way, if he is moving on, truly moving past all that, perhaps it is just for the best? It wouldn't be the first time an arguably bad cat changed for the better (for example, didn't Blackstar sort of help usurp leadership of ShadowClan at one point? My memory is a tad hazy on the details but he was definitely part of Tigerstar's goon squad)
I'm curious though if anyone has any idea for what should have happened to him instead though.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Aug 22, 2016 10:30:16 GMT -5
While I agree with Breezepelt ultimately making his own decisions in becoming what he is now, a cat can only take so much before they will snap and act out. Especially since he's around that every day and can't really get away from it unless he moved clans or something. Crowfeather and Nightcloud's behaviour fuel eachother. The more Crowfeather ignored or belittled Breezepelt, the more Nightcloud would baby Breezepelt, the more Crowfeather would feel the need to point out Breezepelt's flaws,etc. It's a vicious cycle that wouldn't be easy to break. Which is why the two are honestly a horrible couple and parents. There's no way either of them would change their attitude towards their parenting or each other. That said, it does make the whole thing interesting and dynamic. This is why I, also, find this family disaster interesting. Breezepelt was responsible for attempting to murder his brothers and a pregnant queen, but Crowfeather and Nightcloud played a huge part in making him bitter which as you said, caused him to snap. Although Breezepelt could have been less dramatic, he did not have the best role models. Overall, I thought that this was one of the better drama side plots because of its complexity. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 16:06:01 GMT -5
the clans don't really have a justice system so what can they do? now that u mention it, they DON'T! never thought of it that way, but it's easily forgettable. breaking ANY of the codes should have a serious punishment, but what? imprisonment does not work and its not useful to the rest of the clan. perhaps they have an unbiased cat be a guard to make sure the cat does his/her duties without trouble? |
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