#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 5, 2018 17:00:57 GMT -5
There's been a few cats with mental illnesses in the series already—Moth Flight with her ADD, Goosefeather, Graypool, and Bluestar all had forms of dementia, Palebird had PPD that was made worse when Finchkit died, just to name a few. But do you guys think these potrayals are accurate enough or not, or do think some are being handled better than others?
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Post by elsaborzoi on May 5, 2018 17:16:00 GMT -5
I never thought of Mothflight as having ADD, but of course she does: I do and I thought when I read that book that she reminded me of myself, lol, so of course. They nailed it!
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Post by Brindlefern on May 5, 2018 17:43:39 GMT -5
I think Moth's ADD was brought up by a fan on blogclan at first (Just looked it up, it was JayFrost), since they said they themselves had ADD and a lot of Moth Flight's behavior seemed very relatable and thus they came to that conclusion. It was probably unintentional initially before said fan brought it up, but I can certainly see Moth having it, after reading the book myself, so to believe Moth actually has ADD isn't all that farfetched. Maybe ADHD, same thing, but with hyper-activeness involved, my own sis has that and in some cases is like Moth Flight. I can't help but wonder about her interest in herbs if she has autism/Asperger as well, because if I know a thing about special interests it's usually of stuff other folks don't understand why we're into in the first place, and in Moth's case, it's herbs.
I've seen some folks say that her ADD diminished most if not entirely once she became a Med. cat but I didn't really see that at all, idk about those people, but she still showed to be very easily distracted and with a short attention span sometimes. I think Kate did fine with how she wrote it, especially since she got a fan with that tell her Moth Flight's behavior and whatnot is similar to what they experience, so something was done right.
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Post by elsaborzoi on May 5, 2018 17:48:00 GMT -5
I can totally relate to Mothflight, lol.
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Post by Chocolate-Fawn on May 5, 2018 23:22:29 GMT -5
I think Mapleshade has some kind of mental disorder that causes hallucinations which would explain her thinking she say and heard her dead kits talking to her. I imagine Moth Flight with ADHD which three of my friends have.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on May 5, 2018 23:53:10 GMT -5
I think Mapleshade has some kind of mental disorder that causes hallucinations which would explain her thinking she say and heard her dead kits talking to her. I imagine Moth Flight with ADHD which three of my friends have. I can see latent post partum psychosis that fully triggered once her kits died.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2018 5:59:57 GMT -5
I'm not really sure. I like that it allows certain people to relate to characters. Though does it work in the context of the world though?
Considering those are cats, who don't even know what cars are. Where they live in a society where it common to be a murderer. Would they even know what mental illnesses are?
The only time I disagree with it, is in quite specifically in Dark Forest/Starclan debates. During those, you have to stick to canon characters as much as possible, to judge accurately where they'll go. So that means avoiding headcanons.
Then suddenly someone throws in "They're insane", argument. No only is this extremely vauge. (This does not count for everyone) But at lot of the time, those are young people who don't what they are talking about. For a specific example:
I can accept this for Mapleshade. As we have read from her PMV literally humiliating and it's confirmed by the Erins.
But then we go onto Ashfur. Who's PMV we haven't seen, so we don't know the thought process behind his crimes. And it hasn't been confirmed he's insane. So we must go to the default for him, like every other villain, and say he's sane until stated otherwise.
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Post by Brindlefern on May 6, 2018 8:11:14 GMT -5
Considering those are cats, who don't even know what cars are. Where they live in a society where it common to be a murderer. Would they even know what mental illnesses are? I don't think it's a case of if the characters know what their mental illnesses are but rather if those that that are confirmed somewhere to have certain mental illnesses are depicted in a somewhat accurate way. Obviously they aren't gonna know what Dementia or AD(H)D is in exact terms, they don't even know what physical ailments such as diabetes or cancer are. We've had multiple characters in the early gen deal with dementia but they certainly didn't see the cats conditions as that because those are very human terms. But that's not what the OP is asking.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on May 6, 2018 9:46:22 GMT -5
The only case that I feel was not portrayed accurately was Bluestar’s. If she had depression or anxiety, she should've had symptoms beforehand, or least some sort of build up to it happening. Her prequel novel tries to explain this, but still makes the other books in which she appears make little sense…
Mothflight’s ADHD was portrayed accurately, but it doesn't make sense in the profession that she chooses… Being a medicine cat requires concentration and a good memory, both of which ADHD impairs…
Ravenpaw’s a bit of a confusing one… His anxiety was portrayed accurately, but losing it when he left the Clans didn't make a lot of sense… Unless, he was only being anxious because of Tigerstar I, but I think the books state that he was always skittish…
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 6, 2018 11:31:51 GMT -5
I don't agree that Bluestar had dementia ONLY. I actually think she had a form of depression and possibly anxiety. Perhaps she had a touch of it all her life, especially after leaving her kits, but it got worse as she got older and was dealing with the stress of leading her clan at that time. The symptoms mostly line up- tiredness, uninterest, anger outbursts, and general unwellness physically and mentally. What do you think? Anxiety and depression are symptoms of dementia.
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Post by vectoring34 on May 6, 2018 12:20:44 GMT -5
Hollyleaf definitely has BPD. What makes you say that? We never see her enter a manic or depressive phase, which is the key symptom of it. Hollyleaf has brief moments where she snaps but if it was BPD, then you'd be seeing it for much, much longer periods. Honestly, there's no real mental illness you can give to Hollyleaf so far as I can see. She was perfectly sane when she killed Ashfur and everything afterwards is just the result of the pressure piling on top of her until she couldn't take it anymore and just had to blurt it out. EDIT: Wrong disorder
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Post by Basement Cat on May 6, 2018 13:02:40 GMT -5
Hollyleaf definitely has BPD. What makes you say that? We never see her enter a manic or depressive phase, which is the key symptom of it. Hollyleaf has brief moments where she snaps but if it was BPD, then you'd be seeing it for much, much longer periods. Honestly, there's no real mental illness you can give to Hollyleaf so far as I can see. She was perfectly sane when she killed Ashfur and everything afterwards is just the result of the pressure piling on top of her until she couldn't take it anymore and just had to blurt it out. Pandean meant Borderline Personality Disorder.
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Post by vectoring34 on May 6, 2018 13:24:57 GMT -5
Even so, Hollyleaf killing Ashfur was fully premediated and planned for a good while. Everything else she does also doesn't fit the bill. Especially after coming up from the tunnels where she acts completely cool and controlled, so unless Fallen Leaves had meds down there, an actual disorder is very unlikely.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2018 14:00:39 GMT -5
Even so, Hollyleaf killing Ashfur was fully premediated and planned for a good while. Everything else she does also doesn't fit the bill. Especially after coming up from the tunnels where she acts completely cool and controlled, so unless Fallen Leaves had meds down there, an actual disorder is very unlikely. Is it possible for someone to have a mental breakdown, even turning murderous, without it interfering a permanent mental illness? As before the truth come out, Hollypaw/leaf had no hints of mental illness.
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Post by Brindlefern on May 6, 2018 14:36:32 GMT -5
Don’t forget PTSD. They’re fighting cats, and that would be a likely illness. Perhaps Revanpaw had a bit of it? I feel like if there was to be a cat with PTSD it'd probably be Ivypool, at least as my first guess, since she's been through a lot with the Dark Forest and all, that can traumatize anyone. Idk feels like a missed opportunity to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2018 14:46:41 GMT -5
Don’t forget PTSD. They’re fighting cats, and that would be a likely illness. Perhaps Revanpaw had a bit of it? I feel like if there was to be a cat with PTSD it'd probably be Ivypool, at least as my first guess, since she's been through a lot with the Dark Forest and all, that can traumatize anyone. I'm genuinely curious, but how does the Dark Forest have anything to do with her having a disorder?
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Post by Brindlefern on May 6, 2018 14:52:49 GMT -5
I'm genuinely curious, but how does the Dark Forest have anything to do with her having a disorder? Not saying she did or currently does, but idk, I feel like it was a bit of a missed opportunity.
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Post by Basement Cat on May 6, 2018 15:26:20 GMT -5
I don't see anything wrong with characters having mental disorders. People do not make up disorders solely because they want to be edgy or cool. Most of disorder headcanons are because people feel they can relate more to a character and better describe their character within the real world context of disorders. Some people have these disorders. And so it shouldn't be wrong that these people want their disorders to be represented on characters they can relate to.
As for me, what I personally think:
* Ivypool had PTSD after TLH, and still struggles with it. * Goosefeather was schizophrenic on top of suffering dementia, the dementia becoming a genetic trait that also effected Bluestar, and now Mistystar. * Ravenpaw and Hollyleaf have generalized anxiety, with it getting easier to deal with over the years. * I really am starting to think Hawkfrost had Antisocial Personality Disorder. * Dovewing I think had a case of sensory processing disorder linked to her powers. I like to think after her powers were gone, the sudden absence caused an imbalance of her senses, causes her to be sensitive to sudden sounds and sensations. * Leafpool, and how utterly lifeless she was in Sunrise, I think was struggling with depression.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 6, 2018 15:26:32 GMT -5
I'm genuinely curious, but how does the Dark Forest have anything to do with her having a disorder? Not saying she did or currently does, but idk, I feel like it was a bit of a missed opportunity. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's implied in BrS or DWS? But when Bramble talks to her she says something about having nightmares still? Which is a symptom of PTSD? I can't remember when it was but I know it was one of those, probably BrS. Personally, I also think Violetshine has Abandonment PTSD, which "typically stem from childhood loss, such as the loss of a parent through death or divorce, but they can also result from inadequate physical or emotional care." which could also explain her behavior in ROF. She's already displayed: - Depression or anxiety.
- Feelings of loss of control over life.
- Obsessive thinking and intrusive thoughts about the abandonment.
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Post by vectoring34 on May 6, 2018 15:42:45 GMT -5
Yeah, it just means a person doesn't handle their problems in a particularly emotionally healthy way. It's not necessarily mental illness though and given the utter lack of symptoms Hollyleaf has barring the one incident, it seems extremely unlikely for it to be mental illness so much as just a cat who was ideologically loyal to a fault having her world view crumble around her and then panicking.
Any particular reason to single him out among all the villains?
If it's just nightmares then it's just nightmares. You don't get a PTSD diagnosis by just having nightmares of something bad happening, that's normal stuff.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2018 16:02:36 GMT -5
Yeah, it just means a person doesn't handle their problems in a particularly emotionally healthy way. It's not necessarily mental illness though and given the utter lack of symptoms Hollyleaf has barring the one incident, it seems extremely unlikely for it to be mental illness so much as just a cat who was ideologically loyal to a fault having her world view crumble around her and then panicking. Any particular reason to single him out among all the villains? If it's just nightmares then it's just nightmares. You don't get a PTSD diagnosis by just having nightmares of something bad happening, that's normal stuff.
Hollyleaf was abandoned by Leafpool, thought she shouldn't even exist, and Crowfeather abused her feelings by saying he didn't care about them just to prove his loyalty to WindClan. Isn't this enough to show that it's possible she may have a mental illness?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2018 16:04:26 GMT -5
Oh and let's not forget that Ashfur also threatened to murder her. Hollyleaf was not right in the mind at this time. Whether she has PTSD or not, there was definitely something going on there.
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Post by Basement Cat on May 6, 2018 19:52:12 GMT -5
It's because of all the DF residents, Hawkfrost was characterized the most as a superficial charmer, with no regard for any cat but himself, and whose role was designated to faking his empathy to trick gullible cats into joining the DF's plans.
He has no other reason but daddy issues to even be evil, and from an adolescent age, was manipulative and destructive, only caring about himself. And even his daddy issues can easily be explained by the fact Tigerstar held a lot of power, and psychopaths gravitate towards powerful positions.
I'm saying of all the DF residents, we know the most about Hawkfrost's (fake) personality. And that all that charm, wit, and kindness...is all a sham.
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Post by vectoring34 on May 6, 2018 20:15:43 GMT -5
No, that just means that Hollyleaf believed in the code like a religion and proceeded to to be in utter despair after having her faith crushed. It's traumatizing and a bad situation, but seeing as she isn't seen to have any triggers nor flashbacks, there's very likely no PTSD. Just someone really, really stressed.
That does not equal mental illness, however. You can argue that she was under duress or whatever and I might even agree, but mental illness has consistent symptoms and so on.
Anyway to actually say one instead of nitpicking, Sol seems like an almost textbook case of narcissistic personality disorder to me. The only iffy factor is how much self control he has in PoT, where he takes everything in stride rather than seething at his constant setbacks, but then he's not on-screen all the time so it's possible that while taking breaks he was just really, really mad.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on May 9, 2018 14:25:52 GMT -5
Hollyleaf definitely has BPD. What makes you say that? We never see her enter a manic or depressive phase, which is the key symptom of it. Hollyleaf has brief moments where she snaps but if it was BPD, then you'd be seeing it for much, much longer periods. Honestly, there's no real mental illness you can give to Hollyleaf so far as I can see. She was perfectly sane when she killed Ashfur and everything afterwards is just the result of the pressure piling on top of her until she couldn't take it anymore and just had to blurt it out. EDIT: Wrong disorder Yay another person who can't understand BPD= Borderline Personality Disorder and BD= Bipolar Disorder Bipolar Disorder is TWO word so it would be BD Borderline Personality Disorder is THREE words so it would be BPD yikes
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