|
Post by Chocolate-Fawn on Mar 10, 2018 22:45:22 GMT -5
I've been twisting my mind around this one for a while. Should Frecklewish and Ravenwing from Mapleshade's Vengeance be in the Dark Forest with their killer. I mean Ravenwing told Oakstar about Mapleshade's kits being half-clan and not even thinking about the consequences. And Frecklewish watched as Mapleshade's children were drowning. The Warrior Code states that kits should be saved from danger no matter what clan they're from or who their parents are. The way that code was created had harsh consequences. The kits in the story drowned and RiverClan's medicine cat at the time stopped a warrior from saving the poor things. The med. cat did learn her lesson but still. I'm leaving Oakstar out of this because he saw the error of his mistake unlike his daughter and med. cat. I would love to her your guys opinion on the matter. For me, I have mixed feelings about it.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Mar 10, 2018 23:32:15 GMT -5
Ravenwing was an idiot but being an idiot doesn't get you put in the Dark Forest. Frecklewish is debatable as she did lunge to kill Mapleshade at Snakerocks but Mapleshade was outside the code at that point so she probably gets a pass.
|
|
nightfrost1211
I'm patiently awaiting the day when yet another anime consumes my entire being
|
Post by nightfrost1211 on Mar 10, 2018 23:36:05 GMT -5
I honestly don't like Ravenwing or Frecklewish (or many cats in Mapleshade's Vengeance for that matter) and I believe that were acting very stupid in a way that they weren't thinking rationally, which I guess is what is expected for a loyal clan cat. What really got to me was how immature she was acting in that novella; Frecklewish blabbed to everyone saying that Mapleshade's kits were her brother's with no hints suggesting that, realized they weren't actually her kin, made everyone turn on the queen just because they weren't her kin (even Oakstar who's supposed to be not biased and fair), and watched them die. I don't understand why she basically let them DIE because of her stupid stuck-up mindset at the time, but that cat in Code of the Clans let those kits die, and I'm pretty sure he or she didn't end up in Dark Forest. There's lots of exceptions and stuff like that, so I dont think they should actually live in the Dark Forest, but them being in Starclan is kinda weird to me.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 0:40:14 GMT -5
Ravenwing and Frecklewish DO NOT deserve the Dark Forest. I do not care if Mapleshade had a "bad past". I don't care what she felt. I'm tired of people saying they deserve the Dark Forest when they've hardly even had any screen time. They are only "bad" in our eyes because of Mapleshade's PoV.
First off, Ravenwing was only doing his job. Mapleshade lied to her clan, and what else was he supposed to do anyway? Let everyone else believe in the lie? Oakstar would've most likely exiled Ravenwing as well, or at least punished him in some sort of way considering Oakstar wasn't in the right mind at the time. While I don't think Mapleshade deserved to be exiled, why do people blame Ravenwing for Oakstar's crimes? Ravenwing couldn't have possibly known that he was going to exile Mapleshade. And I can't remember where this was said, but someone pointed out that a leader needs to be supported by their medicine cat. Ravenwing was doing his job. He even said he felt sorry for Mapleshade and the kits. What did people expect him to do? Go against his leader? Lie along with Mapleshade? Mapleshade brought this upon herself. Ravenwing had the right to tell his leader about the kits' father.
Frecklewish was depressed and suicidal. She isn't evil. While I didn't like how she treated Mapleshade and the kits, calling them "creatures", people have to understand her own PoV also. Frecklewish, in my theory, lost her mother as well as her brother. That's nearly her entire kin gone, at least from what we've seen in the Novella. Of course she'd be upset after the truth came out, when it was clear that Frecklewish's brother won't live on through Mapleshade's kits. Her reaction about Mapleshade's own betrayal is perfectly natural.
Why do people hate on Frecklewish? Everyone else reacted the same way when Leafpool and Bluestar lied about their kits. So why does Frecklewish get the hate? Both Blue and Leaf lied and used others, letting them believe in the lie, and many cats were hurt. It's the exact same situation, yet Freckle seems to get the most hate about her reaction.
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of people saying they deserve the Dark Forest or if they were evil just because they made one mistake. Frecklewish, at one point, even seemed to regret that the kits have died. She never wanted them to die. It wasn't her fault.
I do not pity Mapleshade. She brought everything upon herself.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 0:48:59 GMT -5
Ravenwing and Frecklewish DO NOT deserve the Dark Forest. I do not care if Mapleshade had a "bad past". I don't care what she felt. I'm tired of people saying they deserve the Dark Forest when they've hardly even had any screen time. They are only "bad" in our eyes because of Mapleshade's PoV. First off, Ravenwing was only doing his job. Mapleshade lied to her clan, and what else was he supposed to do anyway? Let everyone else believe in the lie? Oakstar would've most likely exiled Ravenwing as well, or at least punished him in some sort of way considering Oakstar wasn't in the right mind at the time. While I don't think Mapleshade deserved to be exiled, why do people blame Ravenwing for Oakstar's crimes? Ravenwing couldn't have possibly known that he was going to exile Mapleshade. And I can't remember where this was said, but someone pointed out that a leader needs to be supported by their medicine cat. Ravenwing was doing his job. He even said he felt sorry for Mapleshade and the kits. What did people expect him to do? Go against his leader? Lie along with Mapleshade? Mapleshade brought this upon herself. Ravenwing had the right to tell his leader about the kits' father. Frecklewish was depressed and suicidal. She isn't evil. While I didn't like how she treated Mapleshade and the kits, calling them "creatures", people have to understand her own PoV also. Frecklewish, in my theory, lost her mother as well as her brother. That's nearly her entire kin gone, at least from what we've seen in the Novella. Of course she'd be upset after the truth came out, when it was clear that Frecklewish's brother won't live on through Mapleshade's kits. Her reaction about Mapleshade's own betrayal is perfectly natural. Why do people hate on Frecklewish? Everyone else reacted the same way when Leafpool and Bluestar lied about their kits. So why does Frecklewish get the hate? Both Blue and Leaf lied and used others, letting them believe in the lie, and many cats were hurt. It's the exact same situation, yet Freckle seems to get the most hate about her reaction. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of people saying they deserve the Dark Forest or if they were evil just because they made one mistake. Frecklewish, at one point, even seemed to regret that the kits have died. She never wanted them to die. It wasn't her fault. I do not pity Mapleshade. She brought everything upon herself. But I have one question. Just one small question. Why did Oakstar exile two moon old kits? It isn’t their fault that they’re half-clan.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 0:50:30 GMT -5
Ravenwing and Frecklewish DO NOT deserve the Dark Forest. I do not care if Mapleshade had a "bad past". I don't care what she felt. I'm tired of people saying they deserve the Dark Forest when they've hardly even had any screen time. They are only "bad" in our eyes because of Mapleshade's PoV. First off, Ravenwing was only doing his job. Mapleshade lied to her clan, and what else was he supposed to do anyway? Let everyone else believe in the lie? Oakstar would've most likely exiled Ravenwing as well, or at least punished him in some sort of way considering Oakstar wasn't in the right mind at the time. While I don't think Mapleshade deserved to be exiled, why do people blame Ravenwing for Oakstar's crimes? Ravenwing couldn't have possibly known that he was going to exile Mapleshade. And I can't remember where this was said, but someone pointed out that a leader needs to be supported by their medicine cat. Ravenwing was doing his job. He even said he felt sorry for Mapleshade and the kits. What did people expect him to do? Go against his leader? Lie along with Mapleshade? Mapleshade brought this upon herself. Ravenwing had the right to tell his leader about the kits' father. Frecklewish was depressed and suicidal. She isn't evil. While I didn't like how she treated Mapleshade and the kits, calling them "creatures", people have to understand her own PoV also. Frecklewish, in my theory, lost her mother as well as her brother. That's nearly her entire kin gone, at least from what we've seen in the Novella. Of course she'd be upset after the truth came out, when it was clear that Frecklewish's brother won't live on through Mapleshade's kits. Her reaction about Mapleshade's own betrayal is perfectly natural. Why do people hate on Frecklewish? Everyone else reacted the same way when Leafpool and Bluestar lied about their kits. So why does Frecklewish get the hate? Both Blue and Leaf lied and used others, letting them believe in the lie, and many cats were hurt. It's the exact same situation, yet Freckle seems to get the most hate about her reaction. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of people saying they deserve the Dark Forest or if they were evil just because they made one mistake. Frecklewish, at one point, even seemed to regret that the kits have died. She never wanted them to die. It wasn't her fault. I do not pity Mapleshade. She brought everything upon herself. But I have one question. Just one small question. Why did Oakstar exile two moon old kits? It isn’t their fault that they’re half-clan. Because Oakstar is a heartless scumbag. But I will not blame Ravenwing or Frecklewish for their leader's behavior.
|
|
nightfrost1211
I'm patiently awaiting the day when yet another anime consumes my entire being
|
Post by nightfrost1211 on Mar 11, 2018 1:27:11 GMT -5
I do not think they at all deserve to go to the Dark Forest, but it does not make up for how they acted. I agree that Frecklewish was depressed it seemed at the time, but that doesnt mean she gets a free-pass for calling the kits 'creatures' and watching them die. This also goes into the Ashfur controversy, which I wont at all go deeper into, just to say that he kinda seemed a candidate to live in the Dark Forest, but didn't. There's so much different ideas about cats who should/shouldn't have ended up where they are, plus the canon and headcanons, that its really difficult to give a definitive opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 1:30:04 GMT -5
I do not think they at all deserve to go to the Dark Forest, but it does not make up for how they acted. I agree that Frecklewish was depressed it seemed at the time, but that doesnt mean she gets a free-pass for calling the kits 'creatures' and watching them die. This also goes into the Ashfur controversy, which I wont at all go deeper into, just to say that he kinda seemed a candidate to live in the Dark Forest, but didn't. There's so much different ideas about cats who should/shouldn't have ended up where they are, plus the canon and headcanons, that its really difficult to give a definitive opinion. Never said they get a free pass, but you do have to understand their own PoV and not just Mapleshade's. And Ashfur's situation was completely different. He was a selfish ass, and actually deserved what he got. Whereas with Raven and Freckle, they both made a mistake. Can't say if Raven regrets it, but Freckle clearly didn't want the kits to die. She let grief get the best of her, whereas Raven was simply being loyal to his clan.
|
|
nightfrost1211
I'm patiently awaiting the day when yet another anime consumes my entire being
|
Post by nightfrost1211 on Mar 11, 2018 1:39:27 GMT -5
Yeah, Ravenwing was a younger med cat (i think I'm not exactly sure) and telling his leader was probably the best decision than just watching the half-clan kits grow up and having that secret his whole life. He probably wasn't thinking thoroughly, since he didn't consider that Oakstar would be stupid and banish innocent kits (which was very strange I think) so he would not at all deserve to end up there. I'm not exactly sure why I brought up Ashfur, because it would be another topic to determine if almost killing 3 cats equals not saving 3 three kits, that eventually died, since it happened in Code of the Clans. There was no indication that that cat went to the Dark Forest, so Frecklewish shouldn't go there. And I personally do like Mapleshade, but honestly only as a villain and I believe she deserved everything she got.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 11, 2018 3:23:09 GMT -5
Mmmm going to the Dark Forest, certain conditions have to be made. And considering how flawed StarClan is, it's not hard to get into it, even if you're a terrible cat, lol.
Ravenwing is supposed to be an unbiased medicine cat and stood by, watching "coldly" while his clan persecuted a queen and her kits. He didn't speak up, or worry about their safety whatsoever.
Frecklewish based all her actions on assumptions, she called the kits "Creatures" instigated them being thrown out, watched the kits drown, and even wished death upon Maple while also attacking her.
Oakstar, another bias figure who was supposed to be unbiased, exiled a queen and two-moon old kits, with a storm coming, threatening them, and their safety. It's honestly much worse with him considering before he was intent on raising those kits so they'd avenge Birchface by killing Appledusk one day, ugh.
Basically they're all crap. But we all know they're not going to the Dark Forest.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 8:13:59 GMT -5
While I think that they didn't handle the situation too well, I don't think Ravenwing and Frecklewish deserve to be sent to the Dark Forest. Ravenwing was just doing his job as the medicine cat, and though I think Frecklewish could've handled the entire half-Clan situation better (and maybe could've helped save the kits), she was acting out in grief.
In fact, the three cats who are basically at fault are Mapleshade, Appledusk, and Oakstar.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Mar 11, 2018 9:01:17 GMT -5
Frecklewish is an interesting case because she died from a battle hunger. All Mapleshade had to do was dodge and Frecklewish killed herself. Battle hunger has been used as justification for being in the Dark Forest before, but it isn't enough here, I think.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 11:03:21 GMT -5
Regardless of a character’s... well... character, no one really “deserves” the dark forest because they choose to be there. And because of that, the dark forest is never really a punishment because those who are there want to be there- or at least feel more happy there than they would be in StarClan. If it’s punishment at all, it’s self-inflicted.
Mapleshade can say all she wants that she earned the dark forest, but in reality she could go be with her kits in StarClan at any time. She doesn’t have to be a monster.
|
|
|
Post by Kibui on Mar 11, 2018 11:24:37 GMT -5
Eh since I think the cats (sub)consciously decide where they want to go themselves and that it's not a matter of what they deserve I don't really care tbh
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Mar 11, 2018 14:15:33 GMT -5
Regardless of a character’s... well... character, no one really “deserves” the dark forest because they choose to be there. And because of that, the dark forest is never really a punishment because those who are there want to be there- or at least feel more happy there than they would be in StarClan. If it’s punishment at all, it’s self-inflicted. Mapleshade can say all she wants that she earned the dark forest, but in reality she could go be with her kits in StarClan at any time. She doesn’t have to be a monster. This is very questionable. If it was that easy, why didn't Darkstripe just slither out of there whenever he pleased given how he clearly didn't want to be there? How can cats from Starclan get lost there? Why is it that it keeps all of the cats in it separated at first? It being self inflicted makes no sense in the context of the story.
|
|
|
Post by Chocolate-Fawn on Mar 11, 2018 14:48:06 GMT -5
Regardless of a character’s... well... character, no one really “deserves” the dark forest because they choose to be there. And because of that, the dark forest is never really a punishment because those who are there want to be there- or at least feel more happy there than they would be in StarClan. If it’s punishment at all, it’s self-inflicted. Mapleshade can say all she wants that she earned the dark forest, but in reality she could go be with her kits in StarClan at any time. She doesn’t have to be a monster. This is very questionable. If it was that easy, why didn't Darkstripe just slither out of there whenever he pleased given how he clearly didn't want to be there? How can cats from Starclan get lost there? Why is it that it keeps all of the cats in it separated at first? It being self inflicted makes no sense in the context of the story. Honestly my theory is some of the cats in the Dark Forest are dumped there by StarClan.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 14:57:59 GMT -5
Regardless of a character’s... well... character, no one really “deserves” the dark forest because they choose to be there. And because of that, the dark forest is never really a punishment because those who are there want to be there- or at least feel more happy there than they would be in StarClan. If it’s punishment at all, it’s self-inflicted. Mapleshade can say all she wants that she earned the dark forest, but in reality she could go be with her kits in StarClan at any time. She doesn’t have to be a monster. This is very questionable. If it was that easy, why didn't Darkstripe just slither out of there whenever he pleased given how he clearly didn't want to be there? How can cats from Starclan get lost there? Why is it that it keeps all of the cats in it separated at first? It being self inflicted makes no sense in the context of the story. If Flametail could wander into the dark forest, dark forest cats can wander into StarClan. Bluestar even hinted that Ashfur “found his way” to StarClan. Antpelt blatently stated that he wanted to be in the dark forest- and we know that he had done nothing wrong besides training there. Sure, we can’t say for sure why some dark forest cats are there, but it’s been clear for a while that they aren’t forced to there. Bluestar didn’t stop Ashfur (nor did she drive out Thistleclaw, that was a joke), and the only time we saw rejection was when Yellowfang wasn’t welcomed among the StarClan ShadowClan cats- so she hung out with ThunderClan. But I mean that’s just the conclusion I came to. I don’t see any barriers, therefore there aren’t anyone forced to be anywhere- and if they aren’t forced, they had to choose.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 11, 2018 15:37:54 GMT -5
However it's not farfetched to believe that StarClan would drive certain cats out of StarClan, just like the Dark Forest would vice versa. Even if they wanted to go to StarClan, it doesn't mean they'd be welcomed.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 16:03:07 GMT -5
Well yeah, it's possible of course- Ashfur doesn't seem welcomed at all himself- but assuming StarClan is pretty big, it doesn't seem like he has trouble finding places to be alone. And if they are pushed out, they could always just go live in the purgatory-ish-afterlife where Needletail is. My point is, while it's possible to be "forced" to be in the dark forest, odds are they have plenty of options other than hang out with plotters of the clans' demise. Vicky, take her word as you wish, even said that the only ones that go in the dark forest pretty much actively want to do bad things now, whether or not they did in the past. And like minds hang out with each other, whether it's out or revenge or not. I just don't think the dark forest is a prison where wronged cats that weren't all that bad are forced to rot for the rest of their existance. They've shone to be able to leave if they want to- and if they aren't liked in StarClan they can just go be by themselves, and if they can't they can be wherever the heck they want- they can be in Kittypet afterlife, SkyClan's old afterlife, or wherever the heck Scourge is for all I care. The point is they have plenty of options and, by my perspective and view of certain things I've seen happen in the series, don't have to be there. But again that's just how I see it, if others think differently I have no problem. Considering how many mixed messages the authors have given about the nature of afterlife- or whether it exists at all in the series and it's just daydreaming- there's no correct answer.
|
|
|
Post by Kibui on Mar 11, 2018 16:35:15 GMT -5
Regardless of a character’s... well... character, no one really “deserves” the dark forest because they choose to be there. And because of that, the dark forest is never really a punishment because those who are there want to be there- or at least feel more happy there than they would be in StarClan. If it’s punishment at all, it’s self-inflicted. Mapleshade can say all she wants that she earned the dark forest, but in reality she could go be with her kits in StarClan at any time. She doesn’t have to be a monster. This is very questionable. If it was that easy, why didn't Darkstripe just slither out of there whenever he pleased given how he clearly didn't want to be there? How can cats from Starclan get lost there? Why is it that it keeps all of the cats in it separated at first? It being self inflicted makes no sense in the context of the story. Darkstripe could've ended up in the DF either because he subconsciously thought he deserved it or because he just wanted to be wherever Tigerstar went
|
|
|
Post by Basement Cat on Mar 11, 2018 16:37:15 GMT -5
No. Not gonna elaborate, not gonna give a big arse speech, just no.
|
|
|
Post by gonxkillua on Mar 11, 2018 17:15:34 GMT -5
No, they made mistakes but they dont deserve the DF. Ravenwing was just trying to do his duty and Freckwish was in grief. These reasons do not excuse all thier actions but they are not evil cats.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 13:28:37 GMT -5
Ravenwing was an idiot but being an idiot doesn't get you put in the Dark Forest. Frecklewish is debatable as she did lunge to kill Mapleshade at Snakerocks but Mapleshade was outside the code at that point so she probably gets a pass. I'd like to point out that Frecklewish attacked her out of anger when Mapleshade was provoking her doing so, so it's unclear on weither Frecklewish was aiming to kill her or not. Also the previous night, Mapleshade had planned to lure Frecklewish to the snakerocks, so it was premeditated murder.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 13:50:49 GMT -5
While I think that they didn't handle the situation too well, I don't think Ravenwing and Frecklewish deserve to be sent to the Dark Forest. Ravenwing was just doing his job as the medicine cat, and though I think Frecklewish could've handled the entire half-Clan situation better (and maybe could've helped save the kits), she was acting out in grief. In fact, the three cats who are basically at fault are Mapleshade, Appledusk, and Oakstar. I agree with that they don't deserve the Dark Forest, but the satiation could of been handled so much better. I do think Ravenwing should of exposed for her crimes, as the Clan has a right to know when they were lied to, specially when it relates to a cat who 'killed' two of their clanmates. (It was accidental but they didn't know that). Some people say he's a bad Medicine cat because he's suppose to protect his clanmates including Mapleshade. However that's impossible thing to do, he can't protect everyone. He has choose a side and betray the other. Either he lies for the sake of protecting one cat for their crimes, betraying Thunderclan himself and risk at exile while he's the only Medicine cat. Or expose Mapleshade for her crimes, relieving the lie she told to everyone, including her own kits. Though it would have unpredictable reactions against the kits, which ultimate lead to their unfair exile. However, Ravenwing didn't know Oakstar would react like that. It's a complex question, between choosing the majority or the individuals? Ravenwing should have waited until the kits were apprentices, when the tensions between Riverclan and Thunderclan were lower and should of defended the kits. But even if they were banished, they would of been much better suited for it, old enough to survive the outside world.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 15:53:33 GMT -5
While I think that they didn't handle the situation too well, I don't think Ravenwing and Frecklewish deserve to be sent to the Dark Forest. Ravenwing was just doing his job as the medicine cat, and though I think Frecklewish could've handled the entire half-Clan situation better (and maybe could've helped save the kits), she was acting out in grief. In fact, the three cats who are basically at fault are Mapleshade, Appledusk, and Oakstar. I agree with that they don't deserve the Dark Forest, but the satiation could of been handled so much better. I do think Ravenwing should of exposed for her crimes, as the Clan has a right to know when they were lied to, specially when it relates to a cat who 'killed' two of their clanmates. (It was accidental but they didn't know that). Some people say he's a bad Medicine cat because he's suppose to protect his clanmates including Mapleshade. However that's impossible thing to do, he can't protect everyone. He has choose a side and betray the other. Either he lies for the sake of protecting one cat for their crimes, betraying Thunderclan himself and risk at exile while he's the only Medicine cat. Or expose Mapleshade for her crimes, relieving the lie she told to everyone, including her own kits. Though it would have unpredictable reactions against the kits, which ultimate lead to their unfair exile. However, Ravenwing didn't know Oakstar would react like that. It's a complex question, between choosing the majority or the individuals? Ravenwing should have waited until the kits were apprentices, when the tensions between Riverclan and Thunderclan were lower and should of defended the kits. But even if they were banished, they would of been much better suited for it, old enough to survive the outside world. Isn't waiting just as bad as Mapleshade's lie though? If Ravenwing waited until the kits were apprentinces, he'd be as much of a traitor to Oakstar like Mapleshade was. He'd still be letting everyone believe in the lie for another couple of months. While I know Raven was rather cold about this, I think he made the right choice by telling the truth. Like you said, he didn't know what Oakstar was going to do. I don't like how people blame Raven for Oak's actions when he exiled Maple and the kits. How was Raven supposed to know? If anything, this was all Oak's fault. I don't know why people hate on Raven and Freckle when Oakstar was the one who made the choice to exile a queen and her kits.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 13, 2018 17:53:47 GMT -5
It still doesn't change the fact that he stood by and did nothing while a clan persecuted a mother and her kits. He's supposed to be a cat of healing, and they're not even supposed to focus on fighting, defending themselves sure, but violence overall is just not a medicine cat thing. Yet again he coldly watch a mother get attacked, yelled at and persecuted, her kits called "Creatures", and then they were kicked out of the only home they've known. Right before a storm was rolling in.
Also, I'd like to point out, that Raven didn't even know the truth yet. It happens like this: He confronts Maple after what the elders said and after his dream. He assumes the meaning of the dream is the three kits. Maple NEVER confirmed his suspicions, he assumed them. Even after he assumed the kits were Appledusk, again SHE NEVER CONFIRMED IT. Based off assumptions he ran back to camp, despite Maple, a Queen, begging him not to. She was begging for mercy. It's noted when she returns, he's looking at her coldly, no different than the other cats that turned on her. It is Oakstar who gets the actual truth from Maple, not Raven. While Raven stands by as the clan rips into Maple, Oak unfairly punishes innocent kits and a young queen, exiling them.
Both Raven and Oak are bad cats imo. It's worst for Raven because he's a medicine cat though.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Mar 13, 2018 18:04:00 GMT -5
Ravenwing was an idiot but being an idiot doesn't get you put in the Dark Forest. Frecklewish is debatable as she did lunge to kill Mapleshade at Snakerocks but Mapleshade was outside the code at that point so she probably gets a pass. I'd like to point out that Frecklewish attacked her out of anger when Mapleshade was provoking her doing so, so it's unclear on weither Frecklewish was aiming to kill her or not. Also the previous night, Mapleshade had planned to lure Frecklewish to the snakerocks, so it was premeditated murder. Oh yes, Mapleshade tossed some shade at her after her kits had died. Frecklewish was a loaded gun if that sets her off. Also, it would be more along the lines of manslaughter, given Frecklewish was trying to kill her. It’s kind of like someone standing in front of an electric fence and then dodging a knife stab so their attacker shocks themselves.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 18:20:47 GMT -5
It still doesn't change the fact that he stood by and did nothing while a clan persecuted a mother and her kits. He's supposed to be a cat of healing, and they're not even supposed to focus on fighting, defending themselves sure, but violence overall is just not a medicine cat thing. Yet again he coldly watch a mother get attacked, yelled at and persecuted, her kits called "Creatures", and then they were kicked out of the only home they've known. Right before a storm was rolling in. Yes, Ravenwing didn't speak up when he should have. However when you say he watching 'coldly', that's not exactly true. As during all the times Ravenwing was mentioned during the trial, all he was focusing on was getting Mapleshade to tell the truth. And after she'd fully exposed, it doesn't really detil his reactions afterwards. It never mentions that Ravenwing 'yowled in approval' or 'stared at them coldly' or anything along those lines. So we don't his options towards the kits being exiled, Mapleshade getting attacked by Frecklewish etc. There's possibility he could of secretly enjoyed every moment of it, having a hatred of half-kits. But there's an equal chance, it was a Leopardstar like situation, where he wanted to speak up but didn't due to fear. We simply just don't know. We're given very little context on the characters due to them only appearing in a novella.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 13, 2018 19:35:08 GMT -5
It still doesn't change the fact that he stood by and did nothing while a clan persecuted a mother and her kits. He's supposed to be a cat of healing, and they're not even supposed to focus on fighting, defending themselves sure, but violence overall is just not a medicine cat thing. Yet again he coldly watch a mother get attacked, yelled at and persecuted, her kits called "Creatures", and then they were kicked out of the only home they've known. Right before a storm was rolling in. Yes, Ravenwing didn't speak up when he should have. However when you say he watching 'coldly', that's not exactly true. As during all the times Ravenwing was mentioned during the trial, all he was focusing on was getting Mapleshade to tell the truth. And after she'd fully exposed, it doesn't really detil his reactions afterwards. It never mentions that Ravenwing 'yowled in approval' or 'stared at them coldly' or anything along those lines. So we don't his options towards the kits being exiled, Mapleshade getting attacked by Frecklewish etc. There's possibility he could of secretly enjoyed every moment of it, having a hatred of half-kits. But there's an equal chance, it was a Leopardstar like situation, where he wanted to speak up but didn't due to fear. We simply just don't know. We're given very little context on the characters due to them only appearing in a novella. Actually, haha, I think I found something even better. He wasn't cold about it, he was just as angry and biased as everyone else. I decided to go back and pull up the quotes myself since I have the pdf versions. The bolded parts show enough. He made assumptions based off suspicions. They used words like "spat" and described his voice as "hard as ice". He supposedly felt bad for her and the kits yet quickly runs off to throw her under the bus to Oakstar and the rest of the clan?? He KNEW the kits would suffer if he spoke up about his suspicions and STILL did it. And where is he when Mapleshade is being persecuted? He was right there next to Oakstar, the WHOLE time. And did nothing, said nothing. Nothing. He is no more guilty than the others, sentencing those kits and a mother to their deaths practically. Ravenwing does not get a free pass in my book. When Leopardstar was looking on during Stonefur's execution it was anything but anger or fierceness toward Stonefur. It's obvious she regretted his death and was scared like every other cat, while Ravenwing was angry at Mapleshade and her kits just like the others.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 13, 2018 19:39:18 GMT -5
I'd like to point out that Frecklewish attacked her out of anger when Mapleshade was provoking her doing so, so it's unclear on weither Frecklewish was aiming to kill her or not. Also the previous night, Mapleshade had planned to lure Frecklewish to the snakerocks, so it was premeditated murder. Oh yes, Mapleshade tossed some shade at her after her kits had died. Frecklewish was a loaded gun if that sets her off. Also, it would be more along the lines of manslaughter, given Frecklewish was trying to kill her. It’s kind of like someone standing in front of an electric fence and then dodging a knife stab so their attacker shocks themselves. Premeditated murder is more like how Breezepelt was stalking Poppyfrost and planning to kill her and frame Jayfeather, etc. He was already in the motion of doing it, tried to do it, and so on. He was going to try and kill her either way, while if Frecklewish had simply ran off, she'd probably still be alive lol.
|
|