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Post by Splintercat on Aug 15, 2016 1:25:52 GMT -5
yo idk if anyone's here but i just remembered to ask, what are your thoughts on transgenderism? Christian (universalist) and transgender here. 1) There's nothing (at all) in the Bible that says that being transgender is a sin. This includes non-binary genders, because gender is a psycho-social construct and is therefore dependent on the culture. Feel free to ask me for the deets on this because I could go for a while on this but I don't want to clog up my post. 2) While I'm of the subscription that dysphoria is a mental illness-related symptomatic issue, not everyone who is transgender experiences dysphoria (except maybe every transgender individual in Western society [there are cultures where this is not the case, keep in mind] experiences social dysphoria of varying degrees, but I digress.) The severity of psychological dysphoria is something that is not based in sin, it's based in the setup of your brain and your genetics. You may be predisposed to having worse reactions than others, but when it comes down to it, I'd say about eighty to ninety percent of transgenderism involves some kind of dysphoria (be it psychological or sociological). This is typically not the case in cultures where transgenderism and tertiary genders are normal. 3) Becoming your mental gender is not a sin either, it's a part of God's plan. Because we know transgenderism is not mentioned in the Bible as a sin, we know that it must have been something that God put inside of us. In that case, then using physiological means as a 'cure' for dysphoria isn't playing God, it's playing to God's plan. If it was in His plan to make you a male, but you were born in a female's body, he allows the way through science for you to become a male. The path you take through your transgenderism is just something that you were intended to experience on your journey to further your relationship with the Creator. He made me male. He knew what I was going to have to go through, but He also knew that through it I would become stronger. He made me male, but He put me in a female's body, because that was His will. If you've got questions, feel free to ask, I'll be around for a bit. Welcome! Thanks for your input
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Post by Splintercat on Aug 15, 2016 1:26:48 GMT -5
Good! I'm at a party, but I'm sick of the "partying" bit so I'm trying to hide out, like the introverted hermit I am. My mom might try and make me come back out though, so I might poof :c Same. I don't really like parties, especially if I don't have any friends or food. Yeah there was pretty much nobody there I knew besides family members, wasn't much food either :/
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Post by Cloverfrost on Aug 15, 2016 3:05:52 GMT -5
If it's movies we're talking, I want to nominate Life of Brian. It won't teach you anything about religion but it's a classic.
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Transgender
crane
hroo hraa
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Post by crane on Aug 15, 2016 8:37:53 GMT -5
Uhm, hi. I was enjoying reading through this thread, because so far it's felt friendly and accepting and religion in itself is a topic I'm greatly interested in. I'm agnostic, and I happen to be transgender, and I suppose, if we're talking about technicality, I'm also gay.
When I was around twelve years old, I was obsessed with idea of converting to Christianity. The idea of there being a higher force up there, and that not everything is chaotic and uncontrollable, was incredibly comforting and intriguing. My parents are both quite aggressively atheist, my grandfather is a geneticist, my grandmother is a teacher, and I've lived my entire life with absolutely no religious influence. Right up until, as I said before, I turned twelve, and wanted to convert. I read lots about the subject, and I was enthusiastic. The only churches in our area are Anglican, with one Protestant one that's quite a drive away, and I didn't really know how to pursue what I felt was a calling to Him. I felt this way for quite a long time, and my parents were relatively unsupportive, though I couldn't really understand why.
Now, here I am, years down the track, with three years of intense and crippling depression and anxiety behind me, and a gender identity that I wasn't born with. If I continued trying to live as female, to put it very frankly, I would not be here. It was, and always will be, too painful to battle through. I know now that I can never be Christian, even though I feel as though I have a part of me missing as it is, because the only hate and ridicule I have ever received came from those who follow your God. I will never understand why so many people insist I will burn in Hell for being who I am. I believe that there is someone up there, looking out for us all, and I would love to be able to commune with whoever that may be, and have some sort of Faith. But for someone in my situation, as has been proven above, all I will ever be seen as is sinful. That hurts. But I know I'll find my Faith one day, where I will be accepted and treated fairly regardless of my gender expression, my sexuality or my mental health.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 8:55:49 GMT -5
Uhm, hi. I was enjoying reading through this thread, because so far it's felt friendly and accepting and religion in itself is a topic I'm greatly interested in. I'm agnostic, and I happen to be transgender, and I suppose, if we're talking about technicality, I'm also gay. When I was around twelve years old, I was obsessed with idea of converting to Christianity. The idea of there being a higher force up there, and that not everything is chaotic and uncontrollable, was incredibly comforting and intriguing. My parents are both quite aggressively atheist, my grandfather is a geneticist, my grandmother is a teacher, and I've lived my entire life with absolutely no religious influence. Right up until, as I said before, I turned twelve, and wanted to convert. I read lots about the subject, and I was enthusiastic. The only churches in our area are Anglican, with one Protestant one that's quite a drive away, and I didn't really know how to pursue what I felt was a calling to Him. I felt this way for quite a long time, and my parents were relatively unsupportive, though I couldn't really understand why. Now, here I am, years down the track, with three years of intense and crippling depression and anxiety behind me, and a gender identity that I wasn't born with. If I continued trying to live as female, to put it very frankly, I would not be here. It was, and always will be, too painful to battle through. I know now that I can never be Christian, even though I feel as though I have a part of me missing as it is, because the only hate and ridicule I have ever received came from those who follow your God. I will never understand why so many people insist I will burn in Hell for being who I am. I believe that there is someone up there, looking out for us all, and I would love to be able to commune with whoever that may be, and have some sort of Faith. But for someone in my situation, as has been proven above, all I will ever be seen as is sinful. That hurts. But I know I'll find my Faith one day, where I will be accepted and treated fairly regardless of my gender expression, my sexuality or my mental health. Let me tell you, those people who tell you that you will go to Hell are NOT Christians. In the Church, or at least the Roman Catholic one, NO ONE can say who is and who is not destined for Hell or Heaven, or who is already there. It's not right, it's not part of our religion (I'm sure it's not part of the other Christian religions either), and frankly, it's stupid to perpetrate the idea that anyone can say that. I don't believe, personally, you're committing a sin. I'm cis, but I know transgender people who have been looking towards suicide before they got on HRT. It saved them. If God didn't want that to be the solution, they wouldn't be so happy now. If God didn't want gender dysphoria to be treated by giving people HRT and GRS, then there'd be a different solution, but as of right now there isn't. Plus, the Pope is my head authority, and he doesn't really care about transgenderism. It doesn't bug him. So, no, you're not going to Hell, in my opinion. People who are being abused don't go to hell, and I'm sorry that my people are abusing. Frankly, they're assholes. Don't listen to them. All the love <3
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Post by ginganinja96 on Aug 15, 2016 10:14:14 GMT -5
yo idk if anyone's here but i just remembered to ask, what are your thoughts on transgenderism? Christian (universalist) and transgender here. 1) There's nothing (at all) in the Bible that says that being transgender is a sin. This includes non-binary genders, because gender is a psycho-social construct and is therefore dependent on the culture. Feel free to ask me for the deets on this because I could go for a while on this but I don't want to clog up my post. 2) While I'm of the subscription that dysphoria is a mental illness-related symptomatic issue, not everyone who is transgender experiences dysphoria (except maybe every transgender individual in Western society [there are cultures where this is not the case, keep in mind] experiences social dysphoria of varying degrees, but I digress.) The severity of psychological dysphoria is something that is not based in sin, it's based in the setup of your brain and your genetics. You may be predisposed to having worse reactions than others, but when it comes down to it, I'd say about eighty to ninety percent of transgenderism involves some kind of dysphoria (be it psychological or sociological). This is typically not the case in cultures where transgenderism and tertiary genders are normal. 3) Becoming your mental gender is not a sin either, it's a part of God's plan. Because we know transgenderism is not mentioned in the Bible as a sin, we know that it must have been something that God put inside of us. In that case, then using physiological means as a 'cure' for dysphoria isn't playing God, it's playing to God's plan. If it was in His plan to make you a male, but you were born in a female's body, he allows the way through science for you to become a male. The path you take through your transgenderism is just something that you were intended to experience on your journey to further your relationship with the Creator. He made me male. He knew what I was going to have to go through, but He also knew that through it I would become stronger. He made me male, but He put me in a female's body, because that was His will. If you've got questions, feel free to ask, I'll be around for a bit. I don't think that's how "God's plan" works, there's a slew of fallacies in that, and should I have time after I get off work today to explain it, I'll get back to here and work on that. Unfortunately I have a 30 minute commute and need to get coffee
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Post by ginganinja96 on Aug 15, 2016 10:17:43 GMT -5
Uhm, hi. I was enjoying reading through this thread, because so far it's felt friendly and accepting and religion in itself is a topic I'm greatly interested in. I'm agnostic, and I happen to be transgender, and I suppose, if we're talking about technicality, I'm also gay. When I was around twelve years old, I was obsessed with idea of converting to Christianity. The idea of there being a higher force up there, and that not everything is chaotic and uncontrollable, was incredibly comforting and intriguing. My parents are both quite aggressively atheist, my grandfather is a geneticist, my grandmother is a teacher, and I've lived my entire life with absolutely no religious influence. Right up until, as I said before, I turned twelve, and wanted to convert. I read lots about the subject, and I was enthusiastic. The only churches in our area are Anglican, with one Protestant one that's quite a drive away, and I didn't really know how to pursue what I felt was a calling to Him. I felt this way for quite a long time, and my parents were relatively unsupportive, though I couldn't really understand why. Now, here I am, years down the track, with three years of intense and crippling depression and anxiety behind me, and a gender identity that I wasn't born with. If I continued trying to live as female, to put it very frankly, I would not be here. It was, and always will be, too painful to battle through. I know now that I can never be Christian, even though I feel as though I have a part of me missing as it is, because the only hate and ridicule I have ever received came from those who follow your God. I will never understand why so many people insist I will burn in Hell for being who I am. I believe that there is someone up there, looking out for us all, and I would love to be able to commune with whoever that may be, and have some sort of Faith. But for someone in my situation, as has been proven above, all I will ever be seen as is sinful. That hurts. But I know I'll find my Faith one day, where I will be accepted and treated fairly regardless of my gender expression, my sexuality or my mental health. Let me tell you, those people who tell you that you will go to Hell are NOT Christians. In the Church, or at least the Roman Catholic one, NO ONE can say who is and who is not destined for Hell or Heaven, or who is already there. It's not right, it's not part of our religion (I'm sure it's not part of the other Christian religions either), and frankly, it's stupid to perpetrate the idea that anyone can say that. I don't believe, personally, you're committing a sin. I'm cis, but I know transgender people who have been looking towards suicide before they got on HRT. It saved them. If God didn't want that to be the solution, they wouldn't be so happy now. If God didn't want gender dysphoria to be treated by giving people HRT and GRS, then there'd be a different solution, but as of right now there isn't. Plus, the Pope is my head authority, and he doesn't really care about transgenderism. It doesn't bug him. So, no, you're not going to Hell, in my opinion. People who are being abused don't go to hell, and I'm sorry that my people are abusing. Frankly, they're assholes. Don't listen to them. All the love <3 again, pretty sure that's not how "God's plan" works. and saying the Pope is your head of authority instead of God is kinda Idolatry, unfortunately, he doesn't get to make the rules.
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Post by Splintercat on Aug 15, 2016 11:11:45 GMT -5
Uhm, hi. I was enjoying reading through this thread, because so far it's felt friendly and accepting and religion in itself is a topic I'm greatly interested in. I'm agnostic, and I happen to be transgender, and I suppose, if we're talking about technicality, I'm also gay. When I was around twelve years old, I was obsessed with idea of converting to Christianity. The idea of there being a higher force up there, and that not everything is chaotic and uncontrollable, was incredibly comforting and intriguing. My parents are both quite aggressively atheist, my grandfather is a geneticist, my grandmother is a teacher, and I've lived my entire life with absolutely no religious influence. Right up until, as I said before, I turned twelve, and wanted to convert. I read lots about the subject, and I was enthusiastic. The only churches in our area are Anglican, with one Protestant one that's quite a drive away, and I didn't really know how to pursue what I felt was a calling to Him. I felt this way for quite a long time, and my parents were relatively unsupportive, though I couldn't really understand why. Now, here I am, years down the track, with three years of intense and crippling depression and anxiety behind me, and a gender identity that I wasn't born with. If I continued trying to live as female, to put it very frankly, I would not be here. It was, and always will be, too painful to battle through. I know now that I can never be Christian, even though I feel as though I have a part of me missing as it is, because the only hate and ridicule I have ever received came from those who follow your God. I will never understand why so many people insist I will burn in Hell for being who I am. I believe that there is someone up there, looking out for us all, and I would love to be able to commune with whoever that may be, and have some sort of Faith. But for someone in my situation, as has been proven above, all I will ever be seen as is sinful. That hurts. But I know I'll find my Faith one day, where I will be accepted and treated fairly regardless of my gender expression, my sexuality or my mental health. Welcome! I'm so, so sorry you've been hurt by misguided Christians and people pretending to be Christians. I have nothing but sympathy for people who are mistreated like you. You can absolutely be Christian; @jester was pretty much spot on in her response to you. There are also Christian groups out there that affirm transgenderism, and while I don't personally agree with them and their views, God loves them too, and I believe that if they have genuinely repented of their sins and placed their faith in Jesus Christ, they are saved, no matter what they identify as.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 12:29:51 GMT -5
Let me tell you, those people who tell you that you will go to Hell are NOT Christians. In the Church, or at least the Roman Catholic one, NO ONE can say who is and who is not destined for Hell or Heaven, or who is already there. It's not right, it's not part of our religion (I'm sure it's not part of the other Christian religions either), and frankly, it's stupid to perpetrate the idea that anyone can say that. I don't believe, personally, you're committing a sin. I'm cis, but I know transgender people who have been looking towards suicide before they got on HRT. It saved them. If God didn't want that to be the solution, they wouldn't be so happy now. If God didn't want gender dysphoria to be treated by giving people HRT and GRS, then there'd be a different solution, but as of right now there isn't. Plus, the Pope is my head authority, and he doesn't really care about transgenderism. It doesn't bug him. So, no, you're not going to Hell, in my opinion. People who are being abused don't go to hell, and I'm sorry that my people are abusing. Frankly, they're assholes. Don't listen to them. All the love <3 again, pretty sure that's not how "God's plan" works. and saying the Pope is your head of authority instead of God is kinda Idolatry, unfortunately, he doesn't get to make the rules. Honey, not to get all salty with you, but the Pope and the Vatican interpret the word of God for us through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and put it in the catechism. God, of course, comes before the Pope, but he also speaks for God ((: and so until the Vatican says anything about transgenderism, I am religiously and politically free to believe what I want ((:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 12:40:43 GMT -5
So @stranger things just curious on exactly what the pope is supposed to do besides interpreting the Word of God for you guys? I don't know much about Roman Catholicism so I was just curious ^^
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 12:41:44 GMT -5
why are tags not working bleh
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 12:46:42 GMT -5
So @stranger things just curious on exactly what the pope is supposed to do besides interpreting the Word of God for you guys? I don't know much about Roman Catholicism so I was just curious ^^ Hello (: So, he doesn't interpret it alone for one thing. There's a group of religious people called the Magisterium that reforms the Catechism and our teachings, and normally it takes months to years to decades. But, along with that, he's essentially a successor to St. Peter, who was the first Head of the Church, appointed by Jesus before he ascended into Heaven. On the day to day, I do believe that he maintains diplomatic relationships religiously and politically with other countries outside of Vatican City, which counts as sovereign nation inside of Italy, I think. He also appoints bishops, which are locally heads of churches, and is in charge of the church services and workings of Vatican City itself. He's kind of a religious president, in some ways.
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Post by ginganinja96 on Aug 15, 2016 12:47:04 GMT -5
You're free to believe what you want, but willful ignorance to the word isn't going to make God change His mind on what is and isn't wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 12:50:15 GMT -5
So @stranger things just curious on exactly what the pope is supposed to do besides interpreting the Word of God for you guys? I don't know much about Roman Catholicism so I was just curious ^^ Hello (: So, he doesn't interpret it alone for one thing. There's a group of religious people called the Magisterium that reforms the Catechism and our teachings, and normally it takes months to years to decades. But, along with that, he's essentially a successor to St. Peter, who was the first Head of the Church, appointed by Jesus before he ascended into Heaven. On the day to day, I do believe that he maintains diplomatic relationships religiously and politically with other countries outside of Vatican City, which counts as sovereign nation inside of Italy, I think. He also appoints bishops, which are locally heads of churches, and is in charge of the church services and workings of Vatican City itself. He's kind of a religious president, in some ways. Oh okay. Makes a bit more sense now. I learned a bit about Roman Catholicism in History but that was about it.
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Post by ginganinja96 on Aug 15, 2016 12:51:04 GMT -5
Fun fact, Peter never went to Rome
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 12:52:18 GMT -5
Let's try and keep it civil, guys. I know disagreements are a given on these types of threads but I really don't want to see this get deleted. I agree, let's cool it down so we can continue learning and discussing ^^
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Post by ginganinja96 on Aug 15, 2016 12:54:35 GMT -5
As I said, I'll explain when I get off work if I have time. I've got a few friends who attend Moody Bible Institute who I consult with, so it also depends on their schedules too
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 12:55:59 GMT -5
It's not willful ignorance of the word when the word that I follow hasn't been deciphered to make it clear on what and what isn't sin yet, but ok. Besides, in the Catholic Church there are different levels of sin, mortal and venial. Mortal sins are a lot more severe and have three statutes that need to be met to be committed, which are, "grave matter, aka, it's intrinsically evil and immoral," "full knowledge, which means the person who acts on it knows it's evil and immoral," and "full consent, which means that they're doing it on purpose and of their own free will." Mental illness, i.e. gender dysphoria, tends to mitigate most of if not all of that. So, like I said, it's quite hard in my religion to say or know if a transgender person is sinning at all.
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Post by Splintercat on Aug 15, 2016 12:56:11 GMT -5
Let's try and keep it civil, guys. I know disagreements are a given on these types of threads but I really don't want to see this get deleted. Yes, please
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Post by ginganinja96 on Aug 15, 2016 12:57:23 GMT -5
It's not willful ignorance of the word when the word that I follow hasn't been deciphered to make it clear on what and what isn't sin yet, but ok. Besides, in the Catholic Church there are different levels of sin, mortal and venial. Mortal sins are a lot more severe and have three statutes that need to be met to be committed, which are, "grave matter, aka, it's intrinsically evil and immoral," "full knowledge, which means the person who acts on it knows it's evil and immoral," and "full consent, which means that they're doing it on purpose and of their own free will." Mental illness, i.e. gender dysphoria, tends to mitigate most of if not all of that. So, like I said, it's quite hard in my religion to say or know if a transgender person is sinning at all. Have you even read the bible through before? Because it's actually pretty clear on a lot of stuff
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 12:58:45 GMT -5
It's not willful ignorance of the word when the word that I follow hasn't been deciphered to make it clear on what and what isn't sin yet, but ok. Besides, in the Catholic Church there are different levels of sin, mortal and venial. Mortal sins are a lot more severe and have three statutes that need to be met to be committed, which are, "grave matter, aka, it's intrinsically evil and immoral," "full knowledge, which means the person who acts on it knows it's evil and immoral," and "full consent, which means that they're doing it on purpose and of their own free will." Mental illness, i.e. gender dysphoria, tends to mitigate most of if not all of that. So, like I said, it's quite hard in my religion to say or know if a transgender person is sinning at all. Have you even read the bible through before? Because it's actually pretty clear on a lot of stuff Hey but we have to remember that Roman Catholicism is a bit different than Christianity, even if we read the same book.
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Post by Splintercat on Aug 15, 2016 12:59:07 GMT -5
;v; I'll probably pop in here every so often once I get hold of some more free time ^v^ Cool, welcome!
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Post by ginganinja96 on Aug 15, 2016 13:03:56 GMT -5
Have you even read the bible through before? Because it's actually pretty clear on a lot of stuff Hey but we have to remember that Roman Catholicism is a bit different than Christianity, even if we read the same book. I totally understand that, but you can't claim to have a holy book and ignore the text inside because someone with a big hat and bigger pocketbook said so That was a bit rude but it's a thing
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Post by Splintercat on Aug 15, 2016 13:06:21 GMT -5
Please remain respectful, everyone...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 13:07:08 GMT -5
Fun fact, Peter never went to Rome Peter died in Rome?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 13:09:08 GMT -5
Hey but we have to remember that Roman Catholicism is a bit different than Christianity, even if we read the same book. I totally understand that, but you can't claim to have a holy book and ignore the text inside because someone with a big hat and bigger pocketbook said so That was a bit rude but it's a thing Well you don't know if stranger things has even read it, you're just assuming. The way it seems is that they have others interpret it for them, which if there's anything they've gotten wrong, you shouldn't blame the ones being taught. Not saying that one thing is right or wrong, but if something IS interpreted wrong, then it shouldn't be the ones being taught to blame. If I'm even understanding how Roman Catholicism works, that is? Yes, please try to be nice. Remember we're here to spread Jesus's love and truth, not rudeness and hate.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 13:09:16 GMT -5
It's not willful ignorance of the word when the word that I follow hasn't been deciphered to make it clear on what and what isn't sin yet, but ok. Besides, in the Catholic Church there are different levels of sin, mortal and venial. Mortal sins are a lot more severe and have three statutes that need to be met to be committed, which are, "grave matter, aka, it's intrinsically evil and immoral," "full knowledge, which means the person who acts on it knows it's evil and immoral," and "full consent, which means that they're doing it on purpose and of their own free will." Mental illness, i.e. gender dysphoria, tends to mitigate most of if not all of that. So, like I said, it's quite hard in my religion to say or know if a transgender person is sinning at all. Have you even read the bible through before? Because it's actually pretty clear on a lot of stuff Cover to cover, and yes it is. What I just said is that, despite being clear, there are mitigating circumstances and clauses that make the matter of sin a tricky one.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 13:13:42 GMT -5
I'm saying this, not as an admin, but as a fellow forumer, but remember that the Lord didn't put us on this planet to judge others. In fact, we are to be like Christ and look past superficial features on others and see them as fellow children of the Lord God. Our task on this planet is to bring God's children closer to him, and not to determine who is sinning and who isn't. The Lord our God will decide on Judgement Day who has been faithful to his word, the Holy Gospel, and has worked in true faith and has loved him truly and sincerely. ^^^
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 13:17:04 GMT -5
Hey but we have to remember that Roman Catholicism is a bit different than Christianity, even if we read the same book. I totally understand that, but you can't claim to have a holy book and ignore the text inside because someone with a big hat and bigger pocketbook said so That was a bit rude but it's a thing Here, I'm going to say it plainly and simply for you: I don't follow your religion. That man with the big hat and the big pocketbook is a religious authority to me. He's a good man, and he was chosen by God. You're my Christian brother, it hurts me that you think you gotta take a jab at not only me, but the basis of my entire religion to get your point across. We have faith in the authority of the Pope and the Magisterium and what they say. We do read the Bible, but we aren't exactly like you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 13:18:06 GMT -5
I'm saying this, not as an admin, but as a fellow forumer, but remember that the Lord didn't put us on this planet to judge others. In fact, we are to be like Christ and look past superficial features on others and see them as fellow children of the Lord God. Our task on this planet is to bring God's children closer to him, and not to determine who is sinning and who isn't. The Lord our God will decide on Judgement Day who has been faithful to his word, the Holy Gospel, and has worked in true faith and has loved him truly and sincerely. Bless ya, Tomorrow. That said, I do want to bring Galatians 6:1 to memory: "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted." It is our duty as believers to discern between wrong and right and remind our fellow Christians of these things... in a spirit of gentleness. Disagreements are fine, but pompously ridiculing someone's beliefs does nothing to encourage your own.
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