Bisexual
BrightishWolf
Malcolm Bright enthusiast #saveprodigalson
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Post by BrightishWolf on Sept 1, 2017 20:29:56 GMT -5
Am I the only one that thinks this book sounds good? I'm not really a fan of TigerDove though, I prefer BumbleDove, but I actually think this book sounds okay.
Though, am I the only one wondering how the cats know what a church and a train are? They've never been in the books before (as far as I can remember anyway) so how do they just suddenly know what they are?
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Post by wolfcry32 on Sept 2, 2017 4:34:14 GMT -5
I want to know how Rowanstar died. And it better be a good death. And why he gave up his leadership.. And why Tigerheart gets to be leader. And Pouncekit seems like a target for misfortune- how cruel. It sounds...more fanfic-y than normal, but...I'd still read it anyway.
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Post by *Faith* on Sept 2, 2017 13:29:31 GMT -5
Hm...
Shadowkit - "This one will see into the shadows" Shadowkit has visions. Series title - A Vision of Shadows
Hmmm....
Also, Tigerheart seems to trust Rippletail a lot if he was the one he begged to save ShC. If Rippletail had an apprentice, then I wouldn't have been surprised if he became deputy. Then again, he could always be mentor to Blaze. I'm pretty sure that cat is the age of an apprentice by the time the book ends.
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Post by Lightflame on Sept 2, 2017 13:43:12 GMT -5
ratmanI wrote up almost all the descriptions. I just have Berryheart's kits left, which I'll do later, since I have to go right now. There's also an orange she-cat that shows up with Fog on page 223, but she never gets a name. - Fuzzball: Splotchy ginger tabby tom with thick fur and yellow eyes (Page 87) - Rose: Pale cream she-cat with a fluffy tail (Page 88) - Ajax: Burly black-and-white tom (Page 92) - Dash: Skinny black-and-white tom (Page 119) - Mae: Big brown tabby she-cat (Page 123) - Floyd: Mangy brown and white tom with a filthy muzzle and torn ears (Page 123) - Scrap: Mangy tom (Page 123) - Fierce: Tortoiseshell she-cat (Page 133), with a short leg (Page 137-138) - Cobweb: Long-furred smoky gray tom (Page 133) missing half an ear (Page 137) - Ant: Small, well-muscled tom with a brown-and-black splotched pelt (Page 133) with scarred cheeks (Page 137) - Bracken: Tom (Page 137) - Spire: Skinny black tom (Page 143) with yellow eyes (Page 245) - Blaze: Small white-and-ginger tom kit (Page 143) - Mittens: Tabby tom (Page 144) - Cinnamon: Brown tabby she-cat with white paws (Page 145) - Pipsqueak: Brown-and-white tom (Page 158) - Dotty: Pale white-and-ginger she-cat (Page 158) - Rascal: Tabby (Page 159) tom (Page 166) - Boots: One-eyed tabby (Page 159) tom (Page 172) - Peanut: Tortoiseshell (Page 187) She-cat (Page 159) - Marigold: Old black she-cat (Page 172) - Pouncekit: Gray she-cat (Page 187) with dark eyes (Page 239) - Shadowkit: Gray tabby tom-kit with wide dark stripes along his flanks (Page 187) with dark eyes (Page 239) - Fog: Smoky (Page 224) lithe gray she-cat (Page 196) with wide ears and a pointed muzzle (Page 238) - Lightkit: Brown tabby she-kit (Page 201) with dark eyes (Page 239) - Tuna: Brown tom (Page 206) - Streak: White tom (Page 214) - Feather or Scowl: Black-and-white tom (Page 218) (Unknown which one) - Growler: Stout black-and-white tom (Page 225) Hope this helps!
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Lesbian
ratman
23/12/03—19/09/21 (thank you madie)
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Post by ratman on Sept 2, 2017 15:58:53 GMT -5
ratman I wrote up almost all the descriptions. I just have Berryheart's kits left, which I'll do later, since I have to go right now. There's also an orange she-cat that shows up with Fog on page 223, but she never gets a name. - Fuzzball: Splotchy ginger tabby tom with thick fur and yellow eyes (Page 87) - Rose: Pale cream she-cat with a fluffy tail (Page 88) - Ajax: Burly black-and-white tom (Page 92) - Dash: Skinny black-and-white tom (Page 119) - Mae: Big brown tabby she-cat (Page 123) - Floyd: Mangy brown and white tom with a filthy muzzle and torn ears (Page 123) - Scrap: Mangy tom (Page 123) - Fierce: Tortoiseshell she-cat (Page 133), with a short leg (Page 137-138) - Cobweb: Long-furred smoky gray tom (Page 133) missing half an ear (Page 137) - Ant: Small, well-muscled tom with a brown-and-black splotched pelt (Page 133) with scarred cheeks (Page 137) - Bracken: Tom (Page 137) - Spire: Skinny black tom (Page 143) with yellow eyes (Page 245) - Blaze: Small white-and-ginger tom kit (Page 143) - Mittens: Tabby tom (Page 144) - Cinnamon: Brown tabby she-cat with white paws (Page 145) - Pipsqueak: Brown-and-white tom (Page 158) - Dotty: Pale white-and-ginger she-cat (Page 158) - Rascal: Tabby (Page 159) tom (Page 166) - Boots: One-eyed tabby (Page 159) tom (Page 172) - Peanut: Tortoiseshell (Page 187) She-cat (Page 159) - Marigold: Old black she-cat (Page 172) - Pouncekit: Gray she-cat (Page 187) with dark eyes (Page 239) - Shadowkit: Gray tabby tom-kit with wide dark stripes along his flanks (Page 187) with dark eyes (Page 239) - Fog: Smoky (Page 224) lithe gray she-cat (Page 196) with wide ears and a pointed muzzle (Page 238) - Lightkit: Brown tabby she-kit (Page 201) with dark eyes (Page 239) - Tuna: Brown tom (Page 206) - Streak: White tom (Page 214) - Feather or Scowl: Black-and-white tom (Page 218) (Unknown which one) - Growler: Stout black-and-white tom (Page 225) Hope this helps! oh real nice, thank you so much for this!
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Post by Lightflame on Sept 2, 2017 16:12:16 GMT -5
Okay, I'm back and I looked for descriptions for Berryheart's kits, but they only have genders. Still, here they are.
- Hollowkit: tom-kit (Page 376) - Spirekit: tom-kit (Page 380) - Sunkit: she-kit (Page 385)
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Post by kinkajou on Sept 2, 2017 17:04:29 GMT -5
ratman - Bracken: Tom (Page 137) what a detailed description. i can picture him perfectly
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Post by Mistybreeze on Sept 2, 2017 18:58:02 GMT -5
Okay, I'm back and I looked for descriptions for Berryheart's kits, but they only have genders. Still, here they are. - Hollowkit: tom-kit (Page 376) - Spirekit: tom-kit (Page 380) - Sunkit: she-kit (Page 385) I bet ten bucks Sunkit's warrior name will be Sunflower. Hollowkit will probably be Hollowflight.
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Post by Amber on Sept 2, 2017 21:42:05 GMT -5
Are cats like Sparrowtail or Yarrowleaf mentioned at all? I mean they're just kind of missing.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 2, 2017 21:49:58 GMT -5
Are cats like Sparrowtail or Yarrowleaf mentioned at all? I mean they're just kind of missing. Sparrowtail yes, but not Yarrowleaf. The only cats who joined the Kin to appear are Berryheart, Sparrowtail, Rippletail, and Cloverfoot.
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Post by Amber on Sept 2, 2017 21:58:25 GMT -5
Are cats like Sparrowtail or Yarrowleaf mentioned at all? I mean they're just kind of missing. Sparrowtail yes, but not Yarrowleaf. The only cats who joined the Kin to appear are Berryheart, Sparrowtail, Rippletail, and Cloverfoot. Ah okay, thanks.
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Post by 「Wιитεяичgнт」 on Sept 4, 2017 2:18:14 GMT -5
I personally can't wait to read this! Even though I've spoiled the book for myself... Oh well!
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 4, 2017 6:16:57 GMT -5
Star Flower being reedeemed was okay, but the Erins did it in such a gross and annoying way....
Regressing Clear Sky's character, propping Star Flower up on a pedestal, and trying to make her seem desirable by adding a new villain, lamo Slash over there. While also cutting up the characters of Thunder and Gray Wing for it to work, even then it doesn't really work...it's still...gross.
This book is no different. We all knew Tigerheard might have became leader, and him and Dove would eventually get back together, but it's regression in their characters, and it's annoying. The only way I was okay, personally, with this pairing was if Dovewing went to ShadowClan. She did, but not before some unnecessary plot thrown in where she's acting like a brat and a bunch of cats are introduced before being tossed to the side, killed, or forgotten. The names of their kits is....just...cringey. And I feel Bumblestripe got the worse end of all of this, Ivypool is one thing, being abandoned by her sister, but Bumblestripe's character had to be ripped apart, just to make Tigerheart look good. Same with Rowanstar, Tigerheart was put on a pedastal while Rowan was teared down, with no hope of being redeemed as a leader. And Tiger becoming leader so soon bugs me too. I'm sorry but this book, even if some may like it, I personally don't. There's so many things off about it, from personalities, to the plot line, random new characters with no dephes, and how the climax seems to be executed. It's...poorly written. They could have at least done a better job....
I can literally make all of this 10x better just by saying:
>> Dovewing confides in one of the three medicine cats about her dream
>> She asks Tiger to come with her, but he's conflicted
>> Ivypool goes with her sister, because if she knew about her plans, she would have went with her
>> Tiger eventually makes the journey, etc
>> Some cats join him along the way, kittypets and loners, just two
>> There's less guardian cats, so they get more focus on their personality and devlopments
>> They give more sense of being in the book itself so readers get a proper attachment to their characters
>> A better written heroic death would have been good
>> Dawnpelt being killed off is still just...nah for me. Berryheart should have died instead.
>> They could have at least showed us how Rowanstar kicked the bucket, and who was leading while he was dead
>> Also the journey Dove made actually having a flipping point
>> When they get back Dove tells her clan about her decision to move to ShadowClan
>> Tigerheart becomes Tigerstar, etc
Like???
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 4, 2017 7:11:04 GMT -5
Star Flower being reedeemed was okay, but the Erins did it in such a gross and annoying way.... Regressing Clear Sky's character, propping Star Flower up on a pedestal, and trying to make her seem desirable by adding a new villain, lamo Slash over there. While also cutting up the characters of Thunder and Gray Wing for it to work, even then it doesn't really work...it's still...gross. This book is no different. We all knew Tigerheard might have became leader, and him and Dove would eventually get back together, but it's regression in their characters, and it's annoying. The only way I was okay, personally, with this pairing was if Dovewing went to ShadowClan. She did, but not before some unnecessary plot thrown in where she's acting like a brat and a bunch of cats are introduced before being tossed to the side, killed, or forgotten. The names of their kits is....just...cringey. And I feel Bumblestripe got the worse end of all of this, Ivypool is one thing, being abandoned by her sister, but Bumblestripe's character had to be ripped apart, just to make Tigerheart look good. Same with Rowanstar, Tigerheart was put on a pedastal while Rowan was teared down, with no hope of being redeemed as a leader. And Tiger becoming leader so soon bugs me too. I'm sorry but this book, even if some may like it, I personally don't. There's so many things off about it, from personalities, to the plot line, random new characters with no dephes, and how the climax seems to be executed. It's...poorly written. They could have at least done a better job.... I can literally make all of this 10x better just by saying: >> Dovewing confides in one of the three medicine cats about her dream >> She asks Tiger to come with her, but he's conflicted >> Ivypool goes with her sister, because if she knew about her plans, she would have went with her >> Tiger eventually makes the journey, etc >> Some cats join him along the way, kittypets and loners, just two >> There's less guardian cats, so they get more focus on their personality and devlopments >> They give more sense of being in the book itself so readers get a proper attachment to their characters >> A better written heroic death would have been good >> Dawnpelt being killed off is still just...nah for me. Berryheart should have died instead. >> They could have at least showed us how Rowanstar kicked the bucket, and who was leading while he was dead >> Also the journey Dove made actually having a flipping point >> When they get back Dove tells her clan about her decision to move to ShadowClan >> Tigerheart becomes Tigerstar, etc Like??? ^^^^^^^^^^ This on a spiritual, physical, mental and emotional level.
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Post by Ligerfrost on Sept 4, 2017 8:11:46 GMT -5
Star Flower being reedeemed was okay, but the Erins did it in such a gross and annoying way.... Regressing Clear Sky's character, propping Star Flower up on a pedestal, and trying to make her seem desirable by adding a new villain, lamo Slash over there. While also cutting up the characters of Thunder and Gray Wing for it to work, even then it doesn't really work...it's still...gross. This book is no different. We all knew Tigerheard might have became leader, and him and Dove would eventually get back together, but it's regression in their characters, and it's annoying. The only way I was okay, personally, with this pairing was if Dovewing went to ShadowClan. She did, but not before some unnecessary plot thrown in where she's acting like a brat and a bunch of cats are introduced before being tossed to the side, killed, or forgotten. The names of their kits is....just...cringey. And I feel Bumblestripe got the worse end of all of this, Ivypool is one thing, being abandoned by her sister, but Bumblestripe's character had to be ripped apart, just to make Tigerheart look good. Same with Rowanstar, Tigerheart was put on a pedastal while Rowan was teared down, with no hope of being redeemed as a leader. And Tiger becoming leader so soon bugs me too. I'm sorry but this book, even if some may like it, I personally don't. There's so many things off about it, from personalities, to the plot line, random new characters with no dephes, and how the climax seems to be executed. It's...poorly written. They could have at least done a better job.... I can literally make all of this 10x better just by saying: >> Dovewing confides in one of the three medicine cats about her dream >> She asks Tiger to come with her, but he's conflicted >> Ivypool goes with her sister, because if she knew about her plans, she would have went with her >> Tiger eventually makes the journey, etc >> Some cats join him along the way, kittypets and loners, just two >> There's less guardian cats, so they get more focus on their personality and devlopments >> They give more sense of being in the book itself so readers get a proper attachment to their characters >> A better written heroic death would have been good >> Dawnpelt being killed off is still just...nah for me. Berryheart should have died instead. >> They could have at least showed us how Rowanstar kicked the bucket, and who was leading while he was dead >> Also the journey Dove made actually having a flipping point >> When they get back Dove tells her clan about her decision to move to ShadowClan >> Tigerheart becomes Tigerstar, etc Like??? Half the stuff you mentioned did happened also given that we can only guess when this book takes place we might still see Raggedstar...I mean Rowanstar's death. We assume it's in between the 4th and 5th books, but given the time frame depending on how much time passes in the 4th book, Tigerheart's Shadow could take place I'm the middle of that book. Also people were praising Ivypool for giving her sister the cold shoulder and for ignoring Tigerheart's request to talk to her sister, which he did so Ivypool could potentially stop Dovewing or at least go with her, but then say nothing how if she had at least attempted to speak to her sister after Tigerheart prompted her she might not have been alone. I feel like you can't have it both ways in this situation. Either she's giving her sister the cold shoulder or she isn't. How was Dovewing supposed to talk to her sister if her sister wasn't talking to her or letting her talk to her?
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Post by hawkfrostpineapple on Sept 4, 2017 9:45:32 GMT -5
A cat with six claws.
A pterodactyl cat
Blackstar was pterodactyl
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Post by Lightflame on Sept 4, 2017 11:22:10 GMT -5
A cat with six claws. A pterodactyl cat Blackstar was pterodactyl You mean polydactyl. Anyway, I did the best I could with five minutes of shopping, even if it meant cutting his whiskers off.
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Pastybih
step on my jordans n ill dance on yo grave ya hear
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Post by Pastybih on Sept 4, 2017 11:28:39 GMT -5
ratman I wrote up almost all the descriptions. I just have Berryheart's kits left, which I'll do later, since I have to go right now. There's also an orange she-cat that shows up with Fog on page 223, but she never gets a name. - Fuzzball: Splotchy ginger tabby tom with thick fur and yellow eyes (Page 87) - Rose: Pale cream she-cat with a fluffy tail (Page 88) - Ajax: Burly black-and-white tom (Page 92) - Dash: Skinny black-and-white tom (Page 119) - Mae: Big brown tabby she-cat (Page 123) - Floyd: Mangy brown and white tom with a filthy muzzle and torn ears (Page 123) - Scrap: Mangy tom (Page 123) - Fierce: Tortoiseshell she-cat (Page 133), with a short leg (Page 137-138) - Cobweb: Long-furred smoky gray tom (Page 133) missing half an ear (Page 137) - Ant: Small, well-muscled tom with a brown-and-black splotched pelt (Page 133) with scarred cheeks (Page 137) - Bracken: Tom (Page 137) - Spire: Skinny black tom (Page 143) with yellow eyes (Page 245) - Blaze: Small white-and-ginger tom kit (Page 143) - Mittens: Tabby tom (Page 144) - Cinnamon: Brown tabby she-cat with white paws (Page 145) - Pipsqueak: Brown-and-white tom (Page 158) - Dotty: Pale white-and-ginger she-cat (Page 158) - Rascal: Tabby (Page 159) tom (Page 166) - Boots: One-eyed tabby (Page 159) tom (Page 172) - Peanut: Tortoiseshell (Page 187) She-cat (Page 159) - Marigold: Old black she-cat (Page 172) - Pouncekit: Gray she-cat (Page 187) with dark eyes (Page 239) - Shadowkit: Gray tabby tom-kit with wide dark stripes along his flanks (Page 187) with dark eyes (Page 239) - Fog: Smoky (Page 224) lithe gray she-cat (Page 196) with wide ears and a pointed muzzle (Page 238) - Lightkit: Brown tabby she-kit (Page 201) with dark eyes (Page 239) - Tuna: Brown tom (Page 206) - Streak: White tom (Page 214) - Feather or Scowl: Black-and-white tom (Page 218) (Unknown which one) - Growler: Stout black-and-white tom (Page 225) Hope this helps! I'm digging the descriptions for tiger and doves kits tbh
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Post by hawkfrostpineapple on Sept 4, 2017 13:49:09 GMT -5
A cat with six claws. A pterodactyl cat Blackstar was pterodactyl You mean polydactyl. Anyway, I did the best I could with five minutes of shopping, even if it meant cutting his whiskers off. [/quote Amazing
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 4, 2017 20:36:36 GMT -5
Star Flower being reedeemed was okay, but the Erins did it in such a gross and annoying way.... Regressing Clear Sky's character, propping Star Flower up on a pedestal, and trying to make her seem desirable by adding a new villain, lamo Slash over there. While also cutting up the characters of Thunder and Gray Wing for it to work, even then it doesn't really work...it's still...gross. This book is no different. We all knew Tigerheard might have became leader, and him and Dove would eventually get back together, but it's regression in their characters, and it's annoying. The only way I was okay, personally, with this pairing was if Dovewing went to ShadowClan. She did, but not before some unnecessary plot thrown in where she's acting like a brat and a bunch of cats are introduced before being tossed to the side, killed, or forgotten. The names of their kits is....just...cringey. And I feel Bumblestripe got the worse end of all of this, Ivypool is one thing, being abandoned by her sister, but Bumblestripe's character had to be ripped apart, just to make Tigerheart look good. Same with Rowanstar, Tigerheart was put on a pedastal while Rowan was teared down, with no hope of being redeemed as a leader. And Tiger becoming leader so soon bugs me too. I'm sorry but this book, even if some may like it, I personally don't. There's so many things off about it, from personalities, to the plot line, random new characters with no dephes, and how the climax seems to be executed. It's...poorly written. They could have at least done a better job.... I can literally make all of this 10x better just by saying: >> Dovewing confides in one of the three medicine cats about her dream >> She asks Tiger to come with her, but he's conflicted >> Ivypool goes with her sister, because if she knew about her plans, she would have went with her >> Tiger eventually makes the journey, etc >> Some cats join him along the way, kittypets and loners, just two >> There's less guardian cats, so they get more focus on their personality and devlopments >> They give more sense of being in the book itself so readers get a proper attachment to their characters >> A better written heroic death would have been good >> Dawnpelt being killed off is still just...nah for me. Berryheart should have died instead. >> They could have at least showed us how Rowanstar kicked the bucket, and who was leading while he was dead >> Also the journey Dove made actually having a flipping point >> When they get back Dove tells her clan about her decision to move to ShadowClan >> Tigerheart becomes Tigerstar, etc Like??? Half the stuff you mentioned did happened also given that we can only guess when this book takes place we might still see Raggedstar...I mean Rowanstar's death. We assume it's in between the 4th and 5th books, but given the time frame depending on how much time passes in the 4th book, Tigerheart's Shadow could take place I'm the middle of that book. Also people were praising Ivypool for giving her sister the cold shoulder and for ignoring Tigerheart's request to talk to her sister, which he did so Ivypool could potentially stop Dovewing or at least go with her, but then say nothing how if she had at least attempted to speak to her sister after Tigerheart prompted her she might not have been alone. I feel like you can't have it both ways in this situation. Either she's giving her sister the cold shoulder or she isn't. How was Dovewing supposed to talk to her sister if her sister wasn't talking to her or letting her talk to her? Which ones?? Besides Tiger going on the journey, and becoming leader? The cats that went with him for a while apparently were cut out early on, making their interactions little to pointless. And Ivypool didn't go with her sister, didn't even know why she left. Still don't know the point of the whole blimping journey?? And because there's too many guardian cats, there is little attachment to these characters, like how TC is blowing up with too many cats, no personality or anything at all. It's just bad writing when characters are just there for "numbers" sake. Yeah but here's the thing, it's literally pointed out in the book preview that Dovewing wanted Ivypool to reassure her over the mistakes she knowingly made, the ones breaking the code. Ivypool, time and time again, defended her sister, and tried to warn her away from getting into a troublesome relationship with a cat from another clan, and especially Tigerheart, ever since they were apprentices even. It doesn't matter if Dovewing joined ShadowClan in the end, it doesn't make her actions any less excusable. It's called tough love for a reason, Ivypool wasn't going to coddle Dovewing and tell her everything is alright, like Star Flower did to Clear Sky, and excusing his behavior like he so badly wanted some cat to do. Dovewing was being a selfish brat, period. She got pregnant while being involved with a cat from another clan, a cat Ivypool constantly told her not to, don't break the warrior code, and she still did it. Why would you reward bad behavior?? Ivypool still cared about Dovewing, but if she had excused her behavior, that would have just been bad writing on her part as a character. She put her paw down for once, Dovewing apprently thinks she can just get away with things, but not when it came to Ivypool. It's Dovewing's own fault, and even Tigerheart's, that she felt the way she did. Not to mention the only reason she feels "alone" is because she's virtually the only cat in the clan that knew about her forbidden relationship with Tigerheart in the past in the first place. She had to constantly cover for her sister, which is wrong. Did no one learn from Leafpool and Squirrelflight?? Also there was nothing to talk about at that point, there is no excuse, what is she supposed to say, "Hey I know you warned me over and over not to get involved with Tigerheart, but hear me out, I didn't listen to you, I broke the warrior code, I'm carrying his kits, and now I'm leaving on this random journey over a dream I had that I didn't even mention to one of the three medicine cats in our clan."??
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Post by gonxkillua on Sept 4, 2017 21:04:05 GMT -5
Yes that what she should of said and Ivypool would have been mad at her but still would go with her anyways or better yet get her to talk to the medicine cats. Ivypool's tough love proved ineffective in the end and only pushed her even closer to tigerhert.There is a line between tough love and coddling you know she didn't have to aprove of her actions but didn't have to give her the cold shoulder either. Ivypool should have been showing Dovewing that there was someone who loved her very much in her iwn clan and didn't need Tigerhert to be happy instead she made Dovewing feel the exact opposite.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 21:42:04 GMT -5
Half the stuff you mentioned did happened also given that we can only guess when this book takes place we might still see Raggedstar...I mean Rowanstar's death. We assume it's in between the 4th and 5th books, but given the time frame depending on how much time passes in the 4th book, Tigerheart's Shadow could take place I'm the middle of that book. Also people were praising Ivypool for giving her sister the cold shoulder and for ignoring Tigerheart's request to talk to her sister, which he did so Ivypool could potentially stop Dovewing or at least go with her, but then say nothing how if she had at least attempted to speak to her sister after Tigerheart prompted her she might not have been alone. I feel like you can't have it both ways in this situation. Either she's giving her sister the cold shoulder or she isn't. How was Dovewing supposed to talk to her sister if her sister wasn't talking to her or letting her talk to her? Which ones?? Besides Tiger going on the journey, and becoming leader? The cats that went with him for a while apparently were cut out early on, making their interactions little to pointless. And Ivypool didn't go with her sister, didn't even know why she left. Still don't know the point of the whole blimping journey?? And because there's too many guardian cats, there is little attachment to these characters, like how TC is blowing up with too many cats, no personality or anything at all. It's just bad writing when characters are just there for "numbers" sake. Yeah but here's the thing, it's literally pointed out in the book preview that Dovewing wanted Ivypool to reassure her over the mistakes she knowingly made, the ones breaking the code. Ivypool, time and time again, defended her sister, and tried to warn her away from getting into a troublesome relationship with a cat from another clan, and especially Tigerheart, ever since they were apprentices even. It doesn't matter if Dovewing joined ShadowClan in the end, it doesn't make her actions any less excusable. It's called tough love for a reason, Ivypool wasn't going to coddle Dovewing and tell her everything is alright, like Star Flower did to Clear Sky, and excusing his behavior like he so badly wanted some cat to do. Dovewing was being a selfish brat, period. She got pregnant while being involved with a cat from another clan, a cat Ivypool constantly told her not to, don't break the warrior code, and she still did it. Why would you reward bad behavior?? Ivypool still cared about Dovewing, but if she had excused her behavior, that would have just been bad writing on her part as a character. She put her paw down for once, Dovewing apprently thinks she can just get away with things, but not when it came to Ivypool. It's Dovewing's own fault, and even Tigerheart's, that she felt the way she did. Not to mention the only reason she feels "alone" is because she's virtually the only cat in the clan that knew about her forbidden relationship with Tigerheart in the past in the first place. She had to constantly cover for her sister, which is wrong. Did no one learn from Leafpool and Squirrelflight?? Also there was nothing to talk about at that point, there is no excuse, what is she supposed to say, "Hey I know you warned me over and over not to get involved with Tigerheart, but hear me out, I didn't listen to you, I broke the warrior code, I'm carrying his kits, and now I'm leaving on this random journey over a dream I had that I didn't even mention to one of the three medicine cats in our clan."?? Don't forget, Dovewing was also selfish for making Tigerheart feel bad by choosing ShadowClan over her. Whether she felt sorry or not, she's a full grown warrior at this point. Nothing justifies her actions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 21:44:37 GMT -5
I totally would have defended Dovewing from all these people being mad at her if she was still an apprentince. But now I wouldn't, because she's a full grown warrior who can make her own choices. She betrayed her Clan, refused to listen to Ivypool, abandoned her, made Tigerheart feel bad just for choosing ShadowClan, and went on a journey on her own while she was pregnant and defenseless. She's foolish in this book. Nothing justifies her actions now, because she's not young and naive anymore.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 4, 2017 21:59:18 GMT -5
Yeah but I'm pretty sure Dovewing is aware that Ivypool STILL loved her as a sister.
>> Dovewing still hadn't told Ivypool she was pregnant, let alone she was seeing Tigerheart again, but she's not oblivious and suspected as much that they were together again. Which alarmed Tigerheart, knowing their relationship wasn't much a secret anymore.
>> Twigpaw told Ivypool she saw them meeting, so right there confirmed her suspicions, and that her sister was, yet again, breaking the warrior code, despite her warnings. She is a full grown seasoned warrior at this point, there is absolutely no excuse.
>> Tigerheart then had the nerve to sneak onto TC territory just to goad Ivypool into coddling Dovewing despite her actions.
>> Just because they're "in love" doesn't make everything they're doing okay.
>> Tigerheart called it "confiding" but what it actually was was Dovewing wanting Ivypool to approve of her behavior so she doesn't feel as guilty, which she did display feeling when she and Tiger spoke before.
>> When Tigerheart asked if Ivypool cared about her, Ivypool got off the rail offended by him, I'm surprised she didn't claw his face off right there and then. She literally says, "How dare you" while her pelt bushed with anger. She even makes a good point, that if Tiger actually cared about her, he would have left her alone, and not involve her in so much drama, breaking so many codes, and other things.
>> Another thing that really stuck out in that scene was this quote, Tiger's inner turmoil: "He wanted to blurt out the truth--that Dovewing was expecting kits. He wanted the truth to fix everything. He wanted Ivypool to forgive Dovewing and reassure he that raising her kits in the Clans would have been great. But he knew the truth might make things worse. And telling the truth should be Dovewing's choice, not his" pretty much shows that again, Dovewing is STILL lying to Ivypool and the rest of her clan at this point. If she had known Dovewing was leaving, let alone her being pregnant, she would have followed her in a heartbeat. Because if Tigerheart, the father of her kits, couldn't convince her to stay, I doubt her sister would have been able to either, but would have at least went with her.
>> Ivypool said she'd talk to Dovewing again, only if she stopped breaking the warrior code by seeing Tigerheart. She refused to be a part of their lie, and was putting her paw down. Ages of her sticking her neck out for her sister, and she still ends up in all this mess, it's ridiculous, and at this point feels like Dovewing it just taken advantage of the fact they're sisters, so Ivypool wouldn't have the heart to tell everyone about her secret and lies.
>> Tigerheart was the only one that knew the truth, the full truth, about Dovewing and her whereabouts. Why she left, and her being pregnant. As far as TC knew she was dead, napped by another clan, or abandoned them. Tigerheart said that TC would be grieving over the her loss too.
>> The confrontation between him and Ivypool the second time around is utterly irritating. Tigerheart remembered Dovewing's words, loud and clear, he knew where she was heading and the reason behind her actions, and knew she was pregnant. But when Ivypool confronted him, for lying before, and then knew he'd lie again, she demanded answers as to where her sister was. Because, no surprise, she still cared and loved her sister no matter what. But just as Ivypool knew he'd do, he lied to her again, so Ivypool couldn't track her down to be by her side.
>> Ivypool made it also clear, she didn't want them to be together, she didn't want her sister involved in drama, breaking the code, betraying her clan, she knows all to well about loyalties and where they should lie. And worries about her sister. But she also made it clear that she would have rather Tigerheart have went with Dovewing, instead of her going alone, if he supposedly loved her so much. Again, if Ivypool had known, where and how to get to her, let alone knowing she'd leave in the first place, and that she was preganant, she would have went with her/after her in a heart beat. But Tigerheart, he was hesitant for several days, heck if not for Ivypool's confrontation with him in this soon, who knows if he would have actually went after her or not in the first place.
>> Ivypool's last words to him were literally nothing but the truth, about him being nothing but trouble, and that if he had actually cared about her sister he wouldn't have left her to face the dangers beyond the forest alone. This is especially even more critical on Tiger because he knew she'd leave, and because she was pregnant with his kits. Dovewing may have been acting like an irrational selfish brat, but Tigerheart should have been with her.
>> "You're a coward and a fox-heart. Dovewing deserved a better mate than you." along with that slash/slap to the face, well deserved, and Tigerheart feels guilty about his decisions.
Personally, imo, this could have all been avoided if everyone had stayed loyal to their flipping clans. But even later on this could have all been handled better if Dovewing wasn't lying to her sister, and forcing Tigerheart into such a hard position of choosing. I also noticed Tigerheart was using other cats as excuses in his head, is inner conflicts, like Scorchfur and Juniperclaw trying to leave, and Ivypool refusing to coddle Dovewing when she knows what she's doing is wrong, and then over and over saying he loved Dovewing, boy did he have a funny way of showing it. Basically, "Oh I love Dovewing, but not enough to at least make sure she's safe while she's pregnant with my kits, my clan comes first. Dovewing who?" While Dovewing is being a selfish brat, Tigerheart is being a coward spouting excuses.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Sept 4, 2017 22:07:23 GMT -5
Is this for real or are you trolling us?
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Post by gonxkillua on Sept 4, 2017 22:17:11 GMT -5
I definitely agee that Dovewing was being a brat and Ivypool shouldn't have approved or coddled her but still think she chose the wrong way to handle it. Hollypaw didnt approve of Lionpaw actions but she never gave him the silent treatment either. I've would have loved to see a secene of Ivypool calling Dovewing out on her actions in TS and yes I agree that Tigerhert didn't haddle the situation too well either.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 4, 2017 22:18:20 GMT -5
Yeah but I'm pretty sure Dovewing is aware that Ivypool STILL loved her as a sister. >> Dovewing still hadn't told Ivypool she was pregnant, let alone she was seeing Tigerheart again, but she's not oblivious and suspected as much that they were together again. Which alarmed Tigerheart, knowing their relationship wasn't much a secret anymore. >> Twigpaw told Ivypool she saw them meeting, so right there confirmed her suspicions, and that her sister was, yet again, breaking the warrior code, despite her warnings. She is a full grown seasoned warrior at this point, there is absolutely no excuse. >> Tigerheart then had the nerve to sneak onto TC territory just to goad Ivypool into coddling Dovewing despite her actions. >> Just because they're "in love" doesn't make everything they're doing okay. >> Tigerheart called it "confiding" but what it actually was was Dovewing wanting Ivypool to approve of her behavior so she doesn't feel as guilty, which she did display feeling when she and Tiger spoke before. >> When Tigerheart asked if Ivypool cared about her, Ivypool got off the rail offended by him, I'm surprised she didn't claw his face off right there and then. She literally says, "How dare you" while her pelt bushed with anger. She even makes a good point, that if Tiger actually cared about her, he would have left her alone, and not involve her in so much drama, breaking so many codes, and other things. >> Another thing that really stuck out in that scene was this quote, Tiger's inner turmoil: "He wanted to blurt out the truth--that Dovewing was expecting kits. He wanted the truth to fix everything. He wanted Ivypool to forgive Dovewing and reassure he that raising her kits in the Clans would have been great. But he knew the truth might make things worse. And telling the truth should be Dovewing's choice, not his" pretty much shows that again, Dovewing is STILL lying to Ivypool and the rest of her clan at this point. If she had known Dovewing was leaving, let alone her being pregnant, she would have followed her in a heartbeat. Because if Tigerheart, the father of her kits, couldn't convince her to stay, I doubt her sister would have been able to either, but would have at least went with her. >> Ivypool said she'd talk to Dovewing again, only if she stopped breaking the warrior code by seeing Tigerheart. She refused to be a part of their lie, and was putting her paw down. Ages of her sticking her neck out for her sister, and she still ends up in all this mess, it's ridiculous, and at this point feels like Dovewing it just taken advantage of the fact they're sisters, so Ivypool wouldn't have the heart to tell everyone about her secret and lies. >> Tigerheart was the only one that knew the truth, the full truth, about Dovewing and her whereabouts. Why she left, and her being pregnant. As far as TC knew she was dead, napped by another clan, or abandoned them. Tigerheart said that TC would be grieving over the her loss too. >> The confrontation between him and Ivypool the second time around is utterly irritating. Tigerheart remembered Dovewing's words, loud and clear, he knew where she was heading and the reason behind her actions, and knew she was pregnant. But when Ivypool confronted him, for lying before, and then knew he'd lie again, she demanded answers as to where her sister was. Because, no surprise, she still cared and loved her sister no matter what. But just as Ivypool knew he'd do, he lied to her again, so Ivypool couldn't track her down to be by her side. >> Ivypool made it also clear, she didn't want them to be together, she didn't want her sister involved in drama, breaking the code, betraying her clan, she knows all to well about loyalties and where they should lie. And worries about her sister. But she also made it clear that she would have rather Tigerheart have went with Dovewing, instead of her going alone, if he supposedly loved her so much. Again, if Ivypool had known, where and how to get to her, let alone knowing she'd leave in the first place, and that she was preganant, she would have went with her/after her in a heart beat. But Tigerheart, he was hesitant for several days, heck if not for Ivypool's confrontation with him in this soon, who knows if he would have actually went after her or not in the first place. >> Ivypool's last words to him were literally nothing but the truth, about him being nothing but trouble, and that if he had actually cared about her sister he wouldn't have left her to face the dangers beyond the forest alone. This is especially even more critical on Tiger because he knew she'd leave, and because she was pregnant with his kits. Dovewing may have been acting like an irrational selfish brat, but Tigerheart should have been with her. >> "You're a coward and a fox-heart. Dovewing deserved a better mate than you." along with that slash/slap to the face, well deserved, and Tigerheart feels guilty about his decisions. Personally, imo, this could have all been avoided if everyone had stayed loyal to their flipping clans. But even later on this could have all been handled better if Dovewing wasn't lying to her sister, and forcing Tigerheart into such a hard position of choosing. I also noticed Tigerheart was using other cats as excuses in his head, is inner conflicts, like Scorchfur and Juniperclaw trying to leave, and Ivypool refusing to coddle Dovewing when she knows what she's doing is wrong, and then over and over saying he loved Dovewing, boy did he have a funny way of showing it. Basically, "Oh I love Dovewing, but not enough to at least make sure she's safe while she's pregnant with my kits, my clan comes first. Dovewing who?" While Dovewing is being a selfish brat, Tigerheart is being a coward spouting excuses. *Lifts hands to praise this post to the heavens*
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 22:44:23 GMT -5
I'm gonna feel so bad for Ivypool when the truth comes out. The Clan will know that Ivypool kept Dovewing's secret because she loves her. She'll be blamed by the Clan for sticking up for her sister, just like how the Clan blamed Squirrelflight for sticking up for Leafpool. All of that hard work to gain the Clan's trust from being in the Dark Forest will be done for nothing.
But at the same time, I'm gonna be annoyed if cats forgive Tigerheart and Dovewing easily. Leafpool had it hard, so the writers better not get Tiger and Dove off scott free just because ShadowClan is desperate for leadership.
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Post by gonxkillua on Sept 4, 2017 22:53:21 GMT -5
I don't think the clan is gonna blamed Ivypool at least I hope not To tell you truth Dove and Tiger will be get off scout free becuse he's the leader their is really no one to punish him and becuse he came back with a lot of cats for his dying clan. His clan should be at least be a little hurt that he abandon them for serval moons without telling anyone.
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