Post by Ligerfrost on Aug 2, 2016 0:57:48 GMT -5
So I posted this on the other forums ( It's called a theory for a destiny on that site) but I'm re posting it here.
So I've been given a lot of thought to destiny and the theory that I've been working is about one cat in particular, mainly Cinderpelt. Recently a thread was made (By Jaywarriors I believe) about Cinderpelt and her destiny and trying to make since of it.
My response was as follows.
I looked back on this and had an a thought come to me regarding Cinderpelt. I still firmly believe what I said that her injury alone wasn't what caused her to become a medicine cat.
Someone once discussed why Deadfoot became a warrior when Cinderpelt was forced to become a medicine cat. And while i don't disagree with the answer some people gave what I did notice was that a few people said that Deadfoot became a warrior because he was born with his disability. But I don't think that is necessarily true. Almost every cat in WindClan believed that he wouldn't become a warrior. Tallstar/tail was the only one who stuck up for Deadfoot and had any faith that he could become a warrior. I wondered if there was ever another occurrence of this happening and there was... Brightheart. After Brightheart was mauled every cat gave up any hope of her being a warrior. They pretty much moved her into the Elders den and there was no talk of her ever becoming a true warrior until Cloudtail trained her around her disability. This is when I wondered if Cinderpelt's injury wasn't the full cause of her becoming a medicine cat.
This is also when I considered that perhaps Cinderpelt was always meant to injure her leg but not give up becoming a warrior. I considered if Bluestar didn't apprentice her early could she still have injured her leg? Of course she could have just as easily been injured trying to fight a pack of dogs...just a thought. I mean after all a lot of people say Cinderpelt became more mature AFTER she injured her leg and had to reevaluate her life in the Clan. If she had been apprenticed with Brightheart she wouldn't have been hit by the monster...but would she too have gone with Brightheart and Swiftpaw to find the dog pack?
And I had wondered why if Cloudtail was willing to work with Brightheart and train her to be a warrior by working around her disability, why couldn't he or someone else have done the same for Cinderpelt?
It occurred to me why I never thought of Cloudtail potentially training Cinderpelt and why he never tried to do so. And what became apparent was he was never as close to Cinderpelt like he was Brightheart. Why? Because CInderpelt was apprenticed early. Before Cloudtail is even introduced into the story, Cinderpelt has been injured by a monster. When Cloudtail is brought to the Clan she is already dealing with the repercussions of her injury and trying to recover, while Cloudtail is getting to know the other kits in the nursery (Including Thornclaw and Brightheart) he also ends up being apprenticed with these same cats, while Cindepelt spend most of her time in the medicine den with Yelowfang and her own mentor never tried to find a way to help her become a warrior. Yellowfang taught her some warrior moves but only after CInderpelt had decided to become a medicine cat and all she taught her were the basics.
Now I'm not saying that "Oh if this happened then CloudXCinder would have been a thing" No not at all, but Cloudtail had been a very patient and understanding cat. What if he was meant to be the one to help Cinderpelt become a warrior?
And when i thought more about it, a thought occurred to me...What if Brightheart and CInderpelt's destinies were crossed?
Think about it.
I pointed out that most medicine cats have had some sort of affinity for being medicine cats. Cinderpelt learned because she wanted to be useful and succeed in her job. But Brightheart seems to hold some affinity for being a medicine cat.
While it''s true that other warriors (Like Sandstorm, Squirrelflight and Hollyleaf) have learned herbs in the past also; how many of them retained all that knowledge and have been seen using it later on in the series from the time initially learned it? None of them. Sandstorm learned herbs back in Firestar's Quest for her journey with Firestar, but she's never seen using that knowledge again. The same is true for Squirrelflight for the journey to find Midnight. Hollyleaf retained a bit of knowledge on herbs but it was mentioned by her that she forgot practically everything she had learned despite having trained for a while as a medicine cat apprentice. Brightheart is the only one seen using that knowledge again and again. She is also the only one that was left in charge of the Clan as the sole medicine cat. (Leafpool's Wish). Also if I recall her main reason for not becoming Leafpool's apprentice (In Leafpool's Wish) is because she is content with being a warrior and she acknowledged that it would mean she would have to give up CLoudtail and Whitewing, which she didn't want to do.
So I thought to myself is it possible Brightheart could have ended up a medicine cat if CInderpelt had become a warrior? And I realized yeah it's a possibility.
Now someone probably wants to point out that at the time of the dog attack, Yellowfang was dead already. Yes this is true, but look at the reason she died. It wasn't from an illness and she wasn't murdered she died trying to save the ThunderClan elders and the only reason she volunteered to go was because Cinderpelt was a fully trained medicine cat and she had confidence that she was ready to take on the responsibility of being a medicine cat. She could have lived to make it to the lake territory if she hadn't.
There is one other thing. If that is the case then why was Cinderpelt the only one to get a reincarnation? Why haven't StarClan done something for Brightheart then? Well Cinderpelt got the short end of the stick. She was injured before she could really contribute to the Clan and she died rather young. Whereas Brightheart has gotten the best of both worlds. She has a loving mate, kits, has gotten to practice medicine to the point that she is still asked to help out in the medicine den often enough and she's still alive. She and her brothers have been alive since the start of the PB arc and she's still alive. Cinderpelt died in Twilight near the end of the New Prophecy arc and never got to truly experience being a warrior, she also never got the chance to profess her feelings for the one she loved...Again that's just a thought.
So What do you think? Bright and Cinder were meant to have each other's roles? Or do you think something else was meant to happen?
On a side note: This is purely coincidence and doesn't pertain the the theory at all but...I thought it was interesting enough to share...Cinderheart's mentor was Cloudtail...
So I've been given a lot of thought to destiny and the theory that I've been working is about one cat in particular, mainly Cinderpelt. Recently a thread was made (By Jaywarriors I believe) about Cinderpelt and her destiny and trying to make since of it.
My response was as follows.
Ligerfrost posted:
Here's how I choose to interpret it.
I do think Cinderpelt was always destined to be a warrior. That being said StarClan can't see everything, but it's likely the destiny they saw for Cinderpelt was different from what actually occurred. But it doesn't change what they originally stated,
Yes her injury caused her to become a medicine cat...but did it really? I don't think so. Yes that was apart of it, but I think what caused her to become one was her Clanmates treatment of her and her desire to feel more useful to her Clanmates. remember she's still very young when she got injured to begin with, to be forced to retire before you've even really contributed anything to the Clan? That would be devastating for any young cat, but also her Clanmates treat her like she can't look after herself anymore. No one (besides Yellowfang) ever bothered to try and train her around her injury, to try and make her a warrior despite her injury. Brightheart was lucky because if Cloudtail didn't love her as much as he did to be willing to train around her injuries she would have likely ended up with Cinderpelt in the medicine den.
Cinderpelt showed no desire to learn herbs prior to her injury, it seemed her reasoning for becoming a medicine cat was so that she could be seen as more useful. Now I don't mean that she didn't love or appreciate being a medicine cat, what I am saying is prior to being injured nothing made her want to be a medicine cat, not a special connection with StarClan or an interest in herbs.
Other medicine cats, take Willowshine for example, was interested in herbs as a kit. I believe the same was true for Leafpool and Barkface. Spottedleaf showed interest as an apprentice. So did Frecklewish. Their interest wasn't caused by anything other than their own curiosity and interest in the job. Echosong received a vision and had affinity for the job.
Now when it comes to Yellowfang and Jayfeather neither wanted to be medicine cats initially but they both showed skill for the task of being a medicine cat. Jayfeather was able to memorize herbs before he became a medicine cat easily and he was able to figure out what was wrong with a cat before other medicine cats.
Cinderpelt didn't have any of that prior to being injured. No interest in being a medicine cat (Through herbs or StarClan) and no power to give her a reason to become one.
So its likely she was destine to be a warrior, but that isn't a bad thing. Plenty of warriors were well respected by every Clan. You don't have to be a leader, a deputy or a medicine cat to earn every Clans respect. But even then it could be that Cinderpelt was meant to be Firestar's deputy. Maybe she was supposed to be a well respected crippled warrior who didn't let her injury stop her from being a fierce and loyal warrior to her Clan. Will never know for sure because one way or another she went down the road of becoming a medicine cat.
Now when it comes to her being reincarnated/possessing Cinderheart. I think it was StarClan's reward for her not only making the best of her changed destiny but also doing great things while being a medicine cat.
They allowed her to relive her life as a warrior to the time of her death. Basically allowing her to see what would have happened if she was apprenticed when she should have been, if she was still injured but no one gave up on her ability to heal, get stronger and become a warrior. If she was allowed to freely fall in love with the tom she wanted. Then after that they allowed her to return to StarClan close to the age she died as a medicine cat.(That might have been hurried along do to Cinderheart's discovery of the truth.)
Here's how I choose to interpret it.
I do think Cinderpelt was always destined to be a warrior. That being said StarClan can't see everything, but it's likely the destiny they saw for Cinderpelt was different from what actually occurred. But it doesn't change what they originally stated,
Yes her injury caused her to become a medicine cat...but did it really? I don't think so. Yes that was apart of it, but I think what caused her to become one was her Clanmates treatment of her and her desire to feel more useful to her Clanmates. remember she's still very young when she got injured to begin with, to be forced to retire before you've even really contributed anything to the Clan? That would be devastating for any young cat, but also her Clanmates treat her like she can't look after herself anymore. No one (besides Yellowfang) ever bothered to try and train her around her injury, to try and make her a warrior despite her injury. Brightheart was lucky because if Cloudtail didn't love her as much as he did to be willing to train around her injuries she would have likely ended up with Cinderpelt in the medicine den.
Cinderpelt showed no desire to learn herbs prior to her injury, it seemed her reasoning for becoming a medicine cat was so that she could be seen as more useful. Now I don't mean that she didn't love or appreciate being a medicine cat, what I am saying is prior to being injured nothing made her want to be a medicine cat, not a special connection with StarClan or an interest in herbs.
Other medicine cats, take Willowshine for example, was interested in herbs as a kit. I believe the same was true for Leafpool and Barkface. Spottedleaf showed interest as an apprentice. So did Frecklewish. Their interest wasn't caused by anything other than their own curiosity and interest in the job. Echosong received a vision and had affinity for the job.
Now when it comes to Yellowfang and Jayfeather neither wanted to be medicine cats initially but they both showed skill for the task of being a medicine cat. Jayfeather was able to memorize herbs before he became a medicine cat easily and he was able to figure out what was wrong with a cat before other medicine cats.
Cinderpelt didn't have any of that prior to being injured. No interest in being a medicine cat (Through herbs or StarClan) and no power to give her a reason to become one.
So its likely she was destine to be a warrior, but that isn't a bad thing. Plenty of warriors were well respected by every Clan. You don't have to be a leader, a deputy or a medicine cat to earn every Clans respect. But even then it could be that Cinderpelt was meant to be Firestar's deputy. Maybe she was supposed to be a well respected crippled warrior who didn't let her injury stop her from being a fierce and loyal warrior to her Clan. Will never know for sure because one way or another she went down the road of becoming a medicine cat.
Now when it comes to her being reincarnated/possessing Cinderheart. I think it was StarClan's reward for her not only making the best of her changed destiny but also doing great things while being a medicine cat.
They allowed her to relive her life as a warrior to the time of her death. Basically allowing her to see what would have happened if she was apprenticed when she should have been, if she was still injured but no one gave up on her ability to heal, get stronger and become a warrior. If she was allowed to freely fall in love with the tom she wanted. Then after that they allowed her to return to StarClan close to the age she died as a medicine cat.(That might have been hurried along do to Cinderheart's discovery of the truth.)
I looked back on this and had an a thought come to me regarding Cinderpelt. I still firmly believe what I said that her injury alone wasn't what caused her to become a medicine cat.
Someone once discussed why Deadfoot became a warrior when Cinderpelt was forced to become a medicine cat. And while i don't disagree with the answer some people gave what I did notice was that a few people said that Deadfoot became a warrior because he was born with his disability. But I don't think that is necessarily true. Almost every cat in WindClan believed that he wouldn't become a warrior. Tallstar/tail was the only one who stuck up for Deadfoot and had any faith that he could become a warrior. I wondered if there was ever another occurrence of this happening and there was... Brightheart. After Brightheart was mauled every cat gave up any hope of her being a warrior. They pretty much moved her into the Elders den and there was no talk of her ever becoming a true warrior until Cloudtail trained her around her disability. This is when I wondered if Cinderpelt's injury wasn't the full cause of her becoming a medicine cat.
This is also when I considered that perhaps Cinderpelt was always meant to injure her leg but not give up becoming a warrior. I considered if Bluestar didn't apprentice her early could she still have injured her leg? Of course she could have just as easily been injured trying to fight a pack of dogs...just a thought. I mean after all a lot of people say Cinderpelt became more mature AFTER she injured her leg and had to reevaluate her life in the Clan. If she had been apprenticed with Brightheart she wouldn't have been hit by the monster...but would she too have gone with Brightheart and Swiftpaw to find the dog pack?
And I had wondered why if Cloudtail was willing to work with Brightheart and train her to be a warrior by working around her disability, why couldn't he or someone else have done the same for Cinderpelt?
It occurred to me why I never thought of Cloudtail potentially training Cinderpelt and why he never tried to do so. And what became apparent was he was never as close to Cinderpelt like he was Brightheart. Why? Because CInderpelt was apprenticed early. Before Cloudtail is even introduced into the story, Cinderpelt has been injured by a monster. When Cloudtail is brought to the Clan she is already dealing with the repercussions of her injury and trying to recover, while Cloudtail is getting to know the other kits in the nursery (Including Thornclaw and Brightheart) he also ends up being apprenticed with these same cats, while Cindepelt spend most of her time in the medicine den with Yelowfang and her own mentor never tried to find a way to help her become a warrior. Yellowfang taught her some warrior moves but only after CInderpelt had decided to become a medicine cat and all she taught her were the basics.
Now I'm not saying that "Oh if this happened then CloudXCinder would have been a thing" No not at all, but Cloudtail had been a very patient and understanding cat. What if he was meant to be the one to help Cinderpelt become a warrior?
And when i thought more about it, a thought occurred to me...What if Brightheart and CInderpelt's destinies were crossed?
Think about it.
I pointed out that most medicine cats have had some sort of affinity for being medicine cats. Cinderpelt learned because she wanted to be useful and succeed in her job. But Brightheart seems to hold some affinity for being a medicine cat.
While it''s true that other warriors (Like Sandstorm, Squirrelflight and Hollyleaf) have learned herbs in the past also; how many of them retained all that knowledge and have been seen using it later on in the series from the time initially learned it? None of them. Sandstorm learned herbs back in Firestar's Quest for her journey with Firestar, but she's never seen using that knowledge again. The same is true for Squirrelflight for the journey to find Midnight. Hollyleaf retained a bit of knowledge on herbs but it was mentioned by her that she forgot practically everything she had learned despite having trained for a while as a medicine cat apprentice. Brightheart is the only one seen using that knowledge again and again. She is also the only one that was left in charge of the Clan as the sole medicine cat. (Leafpool's Wish). Also if I recall her main reason for not becoming Leafpool's apprentice (In Leafpool's Wish) is because she is content with being a warrior and she acknowledged that it would mean she would have to give up CLoudtail and Whitewing, which she didn't want to do.
So I thought to myself is it possible Brightheart could have ended up a medicine cat if CInderpelt had become a warrior? And I realized yeah it's a possibility.
Now someone probably wants to point out that at the time of the dog attack, Yellowfang was dead already. Yes this is true, but look at the reason she died. It wasn't from an illness and she wasn't murdered she died trying to save the ThunderClan elders and the only reason she volunteered to go was because Cinderpelt was a fully trained medicine cat and she had confidence that she was ready to take on the responsibility of being a medicine cat. She could have lived to make it to the lake territory if she hadn't.
There is one other thing. If that is the case then why was Cinderpelt the only one to get a reincarnation? Why haven't StarClan done something for Brightheart then? Well Cinderpelt got the short end of the stick. She was injured before she could really contribute to the Clan and she died rather young. Whereas Brightheart has gotten the best of both worlds. She has a loving mate, kits, has gotten to practice medicine to the point that she is still asked to help out in the medicine den often enough and she's still alive. She and her brothers have been alive since the start of the PB arc and she's still alive. Cinderpelt died in Twilight near the end of the New Prophecy arc and never got to truly experience being a warrior, she also never got the chance to profess her feelings for the one she loved...Again that's just a thought.
So What do you think? Bright and Cinder were meant to have each other's roles? Or do you think something else was meant to happen?
On a side note: This is purely coincidence and doesn't pertain the the theory at all but...I thought it was interesting enough to share...Cinderheart's mentor was Cloudtail...