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Post by avocado-axews on Aug 1, 2016 11:45:35 GMT -5
the way they handled Hollyleaf after it was revealed that she and her siblings were Crowfeather and Leafpool's kits.
SpottedxFire shipping coming out of nowhere.
Millie's relationship with Blossomfall and Brairlight.
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Post by Nᴇᴠ on Aug 1, 2016 12:29:01 GMT -5
Was anyone else pissed that they just killed on Rainwhisker like itbeas bo problem at all? ;0
Like they wer just like..
"Yeah, uh, he did 't move after they yelled Timber.."
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Post by kinkajou on Aug 12, 2016 22:15:48 GMT -5
Bump cause why not
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 13, 2016 0:03:43 GMT -5
I don't see Blackstar as some great leader who revolutionized ShadowClan and brought glory to them. He just wasn't as evil as the former two leaders but yet did one of the most regressive acts for his Clan to the point where it wasn't even considered a Clan anymore.
Bluestar making kits apprentices even though they aren't 6 moons was really funny considering she had warriors take down a leader who did the very same thing she was doing a book before. And appointing a tom she's witnessed herself doing and being taught to be harsh and power-hungry, as her deputy then getting surprised and going crazy after learning this again.
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Post by Kenshin on Aug 13, 2016 0:10:03 GMT -5
the entire series got hecked after the first arc tbh
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Post by ʀʜʏᴇʟʟᴀ on Aug 13, 2016 10:45:58 GMT -5
I don't see Blackstar as some great leader who revolutionized ShadowClan and brought glory to them. He just wasn't as evil as the former two leaders but yet did one of the most regressive acts for his Clan to the point where it wasn't even considered a Clan anymore.From what we see in OotS, ShadowClan was doing very well. Everyone was getting along, proper respect was shown to the medicine cats, they were proud, and rebounded quickly after their defeat in fading Echoes. But forumers' reactions to the TAS excerpt shows that ShadowClan isn't doing too nicely anymore. |
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sɪʟᴠᴇʀᴏᴡʟ ☾
rood yelling meanie
be cunning and full of tricks
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Post by sɪʟᴠᴇʀᴏᴡʟ ☾ on Aug 13, 2016 14:20:55 GMT -5
i hate lionblaze so much, he got rejected once and them moped around for the rest of the time as a relevant character? also the power of three arc was shoddy imo
also the CONSTANT use of "forbidden love" as a plot device— its boring, nobody cares, i get the need for some dramatic tension but seriously?? there can be dramatic tension in romances that aren't "forbidden"
also, for some reason the way hollyleaf was treated in the narrative really? irked me? like they just threw in her "death" at the last second
ASHFUR????IN STARCLAN???????????????
also, starclan are assholes
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Marcel
Writing/Listening to Music
Pronouns: It/That/That one
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Post by Marcel on Aug 13, 2016 14:40:09 GMT -5
This'll be fun. Okay so.
My least favorite cat has to be either Graywing or Cinderheart. I hate them, a lot. I don't think that Cinderheart deserved to be reincarnated as she had lived a content life. I love Clear Sky as a character and first leader, and I feel like he didn't get enough love from the fans.
Firestar didn't deserve Sandstorm. And the people that ship him with Cinderpaw/pelt make me so uncomfortable. Along with that, I don't think that Dovewing deserved Bumblestripe. He was a sweet cat who deserved more than a whiny apprentice.
Longtail x Mousefur has to be my favorite ship, although I don't think that Dust x Sand gets enough love for what it is. I saw Dust as a better partner for Sand than Firestar. Graystripe is a terrible father.
I kind've wish that we had gotten a Smudge super edition. No particular reason, I just think it would be rather interesting.
I think that the dark forest cats shouldn't fade away after they've been forgotten. Instead, they should be reincarnated with no memories of their past lives. (Tigerstar as a kit, haha XD)
Hollyleaf's deathberry scene was useless and therefore shouldn't have been included, in my opinion. They killed off Honeyfern to be able to bring deathberries into camp and then didn't even make use of them in the Hollyleaf scene.
Firestar and Leafpool are literally the biggest Mary Sues in my opinion. They need to stop being so perfect.
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 13, 2016 17:33:36 GMT -5
This'll be fun. Okay so. My least favorite cat has to be either Graywing or Cinderheart. I hate them, a lot. I don't think that Cinderheart deserved to be reincarnated as she had lived a content life. I love Clear Sky as a character and first leader, and I feel like he didn't get enough love from the fans. Firestar and Leafpool are literally the biggest Mary Sues in my opinion. They need to stop being so perfect. Ooh another person who don't like Gray Wing. That's nice. B-b-but Firestar is male ;(( and didn't have a deputy for a while, was prejudice against Bramblestar when he was only a kit, was in the wrong for separating Squirrel from Bramblestar, oblivious to others feelings at times. Leafpool broke two codes with one act, the whole Cinderpaw/heart issue, crossed into WindClan territory because she was being nosy, left her Clan etc. |
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 13, 2016 18:18:47 GMT -5
This'll be fun. Okay so. My least favorite cat has to be either Graywing or Cinderheart. I hate them, a lot. I don't think that Cinderheart deserved to be reincarnated as she had lived a content life. I love Clear Sky as a character and first leader, and I feel like he didn't get enough love from the fans. Why don't you like Gray Wing? |
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 13, 2016 18:33:51 GMT -5
I don't see Blackstar as some great leader who revolutionized ShadowClan and brought glory to them. He just wasn't as evil as the former two leaders but yet did one of the most regressive acts for his Clan to the point where it wasn't even considered a Clan anymore.From what we see in OotS, ShadowClan was doing very well. Everyone was getting along, proper respect was shown to the medicine cats, they were proud, and rebounded quickly after their defeat in fading Echoes. But forumers' reactions to the TAS excerpt shows that ShadowClan isn't doing too nicely anymore. I guess I need to re-read OotS. |
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Marcel
Writing/Listening to Music
Pronouns: It/That/That one
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Post by Marcel on Aug 13, 2016 19:10:53 GMT -5
This'll be fun. Okay so. My least favorite cat has to be either Graywing or Cinderheart. I hate them, a lot. I don't think that Cinderheart deserved to be reincarnated as she had lived a content life. I love Clear Sky as a character and first leader, and I feel like he didn't get enough love from the fans. Firestar and Leafpool are literally the biggest Mary Sues in my opinion. They need to stop being so perfect. Ooh another person who don't like Gray Wing. That's nice. B-b-but Firestar is male ;(( and didn't have a deputy for a while, was prejudice against Bramblestar when he was only a kit, was in the wrong for separating Squirrel from Bramblestar, oblivious to others feelings at times. Leafpool broke two codes with one act, the whole Cinderpaw/heart issue, crossed into WindClan territory because she was being nosy, left her Clan etc. Mary sues are not based on what happens to them but how they are described in general. Fireheart is described as a handsome cat, a good (if not great) fighter, an amazing hunter, he adapted easily to the wild, he never went through any problems with wanting to return to his twolegs, he is welcoming towards nearly every cat that walks into his clan's territory, and he does things out of the goodness of his heart etc. Even if cats don't agree with his decisions, they always end up being the best in the end. Leafpool is also constantly described as pretty, sweet, etc. I don't think there's ever been a word with negative connotation used to describe a cat like Leafpool. |
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Marcel
Writing/Listening to Music
Pronouns: It/That/That one
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Post by Marcel on Aug 13, 2016 19:25:03 GMT -5
This'll be fun. Okay so. My least favorite cat has to be either Graywing or Cinderheart. I hate them, a lot. I don't think that Cinderheart deserved to be reincarnated as she had lived a content life. I love Clear Sky as a character and first leader, and I feel like he didn't get enough love from the fans. Why don't you like Gray Wing? He never had realistic reactions to anything. He was constantly described doing great things, a trick which the Erins use to make readers like a cat and dislike another. I disliked how he pitied Clear Sky and constantly treated his brothers like kits despite them being a fully grown cats. He was causing just as much trouble as Clear Sky was but he constantly complained about the terrible things that Clear Sky was doing. |
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 13, 2016 19:30:30 GMT -5
Ooh another person who don't like Gray Wing. That's nice. B-b-but Firestar is male ;(( and didn't have a deputy for a while, was prejudice against Bramblestar when he was only a kit, was in the wrong for separating Squirrel from Bramblestar, oblivious to others feelings at times. Leafpool broke two codes with one act, the whole Cinderpaw/heart issue, crossed into WindClan territory because she was being nosy, left her Clan etc. Mary sues are not based on what happens to them but how they are described in general. Fireheart is described as a handsome cat, a good (if not great) fighter, an amazing hunter, he adapted easily to the wild, he never went through any problems with wanting to return to his twolegs, he is welcoming towards nearly every cat that walks into his clan's territory, and he does things out of the goodness of his heart etc. Even if cats don't agree with his decisions, they always end up being the best in the end. Leafpool is also constantly described as pretty, sweet, etc. I don't think there's ever been a word with negative connotation used to describe a cat like Leafpool. In some intrepretations the story is weaved in a way that the Sue's can benefit from it or overcome it with ease. And the point on how he judged Brambestar, an innocent kit, just because of his father was called out on by Goldenflower herself who acknowledge and handle Firestar's prejudice. In the end, Bramblestar was indeed a loyal cat. Being oblivious to other feelings count too since he insulted Sandstorm when he claimed he had no that understood him when his kittypet nephew, Cloudpaw, was captured. Not taking a deputy immediately was against the code if I'm not mistaken. Plus, it can be seen as weak when you don't have anyone by the roots of the Great Oak. This goes on too the next point that his decisions aren't always the best in the end. Wasn't she outcasted and labeled as a liar and a traitor by her kits? |
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Marcel
Writing/Listening to Music
Pronouns: It/That/That one
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Post by Marcel on Aug 13, 2016 19:45:04 GMT -5
Mary sues are not based on what happens to them but how they are described in general. Fireheart is described as a handsome cat, a good (if not great) fighter, an amazing hunter, he adapted easily to the wild, he never went through any problems with wanting to return to his twolegs, he is welcoming towards nearly every cat that walks into his clan's territory, and he does things out of the goodness of his heart etc. Even if cats don't agree with his decisions, they always end up being the best in the end. Leafpool is also constantly described as pretty, sweet, etc. I don't think there's ever been a word with negative connotation used to describe a cat like Leafpool. In some intrepretations the story is weaved in a way that the Sue's can benefit from it or overcome it with ease. And the point on how he judged Brambestar, an innocent kit, just because of his father was called out on by Goldenflower herself who acknowledge and handle Firestar's prejudice. In the end, Bramblestar was indeed a loyal cat. Being oblivious to other feelings count too since he insulted Sandstorm when he claimed he had no that understood him when his kittypet nephew, Cloudpaw, was captured. Not taking a deputy immediately was against the code if I'm not mistaken. Plus, it can be seen as weak when you don't have anyone by the roots of the Great Oak. This goes on too the next point that his decisions aren't always the best in the end. Wasn't she outcasted and labeled as a liar and a traitor by her kits? Their bad decisions have no long-lasting effects. They are always forgiven in the end and if not they get a couple glares from the other clans/cats, big deal. She was a liar and a traitor but the event just blew up and then died out throughout the course of a single book. Leafpool is described as pretty, peaceful, calm, she falls in love easily, blames herself for the death of a favorite character after going on about true love, gives birth to three of the most powerful cats in existence, and is rather intelligent. She isn't violent, she's innocent, and she knows exactly what to do when she is taken by two-legs. Sounds a lot like a Mary Sue to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 20:07:47 GMT -5
Honeyfern and Dappletail.
For absolutely no reason at all, I literally saw their pages on the Warriors Wiki and was like "welp these are my new favorites."
And yes, salt is a key part of the Cats.
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 13, 2016 20:11:51 GMT -5
In some intrepretations the story is weaved in a way that the Sue's can benefit from it or overcome it with ease. And the point on how he judged Brambestar, an innocent kit, just because of his father was called out on by Goldenflower herself who acknowledge and handle Firestar's prejudice. In the end, Bramblestar was indeed a loyal cat. Being oblivious to other feelings count too since he insulted Sandstorm when he claimed he had no that understood him when his kittypet nephew, Cloudpaw, was captured. Not taking a deputy immediately was against the code if I'm not mistaken. Plus, it can be seen as weak when you don't have anyone by the roots of the Great Oak. This goes on too the next point that his decisions aren't always the best in the end. Wasn't she outcasted and labeled as a liar and a traitor by her kits? Their bad decisions have no long-lasting effects. They are always forgiven in the end and if not they get a couple glares from the other clans/cats, big deal. She was a liar and a traitor but the event just blew up and then died out throughout the course of a single book. Leafpool is described as pretty, peaceful, calm, she falls in love easily, blames herself for the death of a favorite character after going on about true love, gives birth to three of the most powerful cats in existence, and is rather intelligent. She isn't violent, she's innocent, and she knows exactly what to do when she is taken by two-legs. Sounds a lot like a Mary Sue to me. Even if they don't cause long-lasting effects that doesn't mean they are now a Mary-Sue just because they couldn't create enough drama from their actions. They still did things that aren't perfect. Falling in love easily isn't perfect. I think it'd be the opposite considering how she handled it. Blaming herself for Cinderpet's death was because she wasn't with her at all when the badgers attacked her. Um she doesn't control on what type of cats she gives birth too; she didn't intend to give birth to important cats. And she only gave birth to two of them actually. And they lost their powers anyways. Plus, you said earlier that Sues' aren't based on what happens to them. Well if she's medicine cat she'd have to use intellect and have good memory for herbs She knew what to do when captured because she's a medicine cat. Cobwebs to stop bleeding always seemed to be as basic as putting on band-aids. Again, she's a medicine cat and wouldn't need to be violent considering her job is to heal. Hence the calm, peaceful aura that actually isn't always there. |
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 13, 2016 22:31:29 GMT -5
He never had realistic reactions to anything. He was constantly described doing great things, a trick which the Erins use to make readers like a cat and dislike another. I disliked how he pitied Clear Sky and constantly treated his brothers like kits despite them being a fully grown cats. He was causing just as much trouble as Clear Sky was but he constantly complained about the terrible things that Clear Sky was doing. I think the reason he was described as doing great things is because the other cats viewed his actions as such. To me Grey Wing never thought what he was doing was great, he was just doing what he thought was right but from other cats perspectives he was rather amazing which is why they wanted him as leader at one point. He was someone every cat looked up to. But I understand if this wasn't to your liking and it would have been a play to make him more attractive to readers. I'm not sure he pitied Clear Sky until he realised that his brother's responsibilities were "too much for him" (Which may have been true, I just thought it was an excuse and a load of dung). I think him babying his brothers is a show of his caring character- that was his main trait which is what made him to so loved by both fans and the other characters. He was a caring, generous character that wanted to give everyone another chance whether they deserved it or not. He treated them like kits because he cared and wanted to help/protect them. Whether we think it is right or wrong is up to us but Grey Wing thought it was the right thing to do. Would you be able to provide examples of things Grey Wing did to cause trouble? I can't recall any. |
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Asexual
Sootfeather
Now a BNHA addict. Mina Ashido is the best girl and I will fight you all on that.
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Post by Sootfeather on Aug 13, 2016 22:35:02 GMT -5
Marcel How is Leadpool a sue? She had kits with a cat from another Clan and then made them her sister's burden. That's a huge flaw, and it definitely doesn't make her more likable, so she's not a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue, by definition, is flawless. Any possibly flaws they may have just make them look better or more appealing, so Leafpool is NOT a Mary Sue. Even if they look sweet, it doesn't make them a Sue. Silverstream is mentioned as beautiful but has one of the worst and snobbiest personalities in the series (IMO)
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 13, 2016 22:39:06 GMT -5
OMG Soot what is that guy in your siggie doing? Thowing salt around?
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Asexual
Sootfeather
Now a BNHA addict. Mina Ashido is the best girl and I will fight you all on that.
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Post by Sootfeather on Aug 13, 2016 22:44:03 GMT -5
OMG Soot what is that guy in your siggie doing? Thowing salt around? He's holding his brother's arm hoping to communicate with him its a long story, go watch the anime instead  |
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 13, 2016 22:45:18 GMT -5
OMG Soot what is that guy in your siggie doing? Thowing salt around? He's holding his brother's arm hoping to communicate with him his brother is a suit of armor its a long story, go watch the anime instead It's one of the shows on my long list of anime to watch >.< |
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Asexual
Sootfeather
Now a BNHA addict. Mina Ashido is the best girl and I will fight you all on that.
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Post by Sootfeather on Aug 13, 2016 22:46:24 GMT -5
He's holding his brother's arm hoping to communicate with him his brother is a suit of armor its a long story, go watch the anime instead It's one of the shows on my long list of anime to watch >.< please watch it i beg of you it will take your heart, stomp on it brutally and then tear it to bits. |
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 13, 2016 22:53:41 GMT -5
It's one of the shows on my long list of anime to watch >.< please watch it i beg of you it will take your heart, stomp on it brutally and then tear it to bits. It sounds glorious and as if I'll be sitting in my room for weeks after I finish it not knowing what to do with myself. I hear there are two series, which one is the first? To keep some topic relevance: Rainwhisker's death made me super salty because I really wanted to see him be a little relevant in the PoT. I really wanted him to be a father. I was salty about all the greencough deaths after TLH. Just UGH. Salty that the Three didn't do much in the DF battle- in fact just salty about TLH in general. Salty that there were no trainees that joined the DF other than Breezepelt and Redwillow. |
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Asexual
Sootfeather
Now a BNHA addict. Mina Ashido is the best girl and I will fight you all on that.
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Post by Sootfeather on Aug 13, 2016 22:59:01 GMT -5
please watch it i beg of you it will take your heart, stomp on it brutally and then tear it to bits. It sounds glorious and as if I'll be sitting in my room for weeks after I finish it not knowing what to do with myself. I hear there are two series, which one is the first? To keep some topic relevance: Rainwhisker's death made me super salty because I really wanted to see him be a little relevant in the PoT. I really wanted him to be a father. I was salty about all the greencough deaths after TLH. Just UGH. Salty that the Three didn't do much in the DF battle- in fact just salty about TLH in general. Salty that there were no trainees that joined the DF other than Breezepelt and Redwillow. To be honest, you could watch either as the second one is a reboot and not a sequel, but if you want to get used to the characters and see what the show's about, I'd go for the first one. Another thing to note is that the first one has much more detailed stories that I won't spoil. In my personal opinion though, the second one is much better, even though it does fast forward a lot of event that were more detailed in the first series. It all depends on you though. Anyways, contributing to the discussion, Ashfur debates make me want to prepare a 50 page long rant on why Ashfur is a terrible cat. |
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 13, 2016 23:08:03 GMT -5
Huh, why'd they re-boot it?
It looks like a really good show though.
Oh another thing that made me salty was the whole Cloudtail and Mothwing still not believing in StarClan. I feel like since StarClan can't reach via dream, etc they shouldn't have been able to see StarClan or the DF in the battle and just be really confused as to what was happening when their clanmates seem to be fighting nothing. That way they to understand what was happening they'd kind of be forced to believe to help in the battle.
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Bisexual
Wolfdusk
"Can you move your seat up?" "No."
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Post by Wolfdusk on Aug 14, 2016 9:00:02 GMT -5
I hate Onestar, Frecklewish, Appledusk, Rainflower, and Ashfur. So all the idiots in Warriors, pretty much.
And I hate the ships Ash x Squirrel, Bramble x Jessy, and Crow x Night.
I think the ships Sky x Star, Berry x Poppy, and Jagged x Holly are awful. Why? (There's a pattern here) BECAUSE ALL THE TOMS ARE FREAKING ARROGANT IDIOTS AND THE SHE-CATS JUST GO ALONG WITH IT. Seriously, I hate these kind of relationships. The tom's all like, "I'm so great, and better than all of you, and I could do/say whatever I want," and the she-cat's all like, "Ye, you go ___!" -_- The she-cat should be changing the arrogant tom, the tom shouldn't be changing the she-cat! (With the exception of Star Flower. She was always that way.) //sighs// This is why I prefer Sky x Petal, Berry x Honey, and Jagged x Rainswept.
I like the three B's, but I wish Millie and Graystripe had just stayed friends. Graystripe obviously still loves Silverstream and wants to be with her, and I understand he felt like moving on but everything changed for the worse. Millie became a neglectful mother after Briarlight was paralyzed, Graystripe seemed like a bad father because it never showed him around his kits, and Blossomfall and Bumblestripe were pretty much traumatized, especially Blossomfall. Everything would have been much better if Millie had just went back to her Twolegs and stayed the sweet, bubbly kittypet we knew in the Graystripe manga.
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Post by smilii on Aug 14, 2016 9:21:13 GMT -5
Honestly I'm just salty over the Thunder and Shadow long preview. Not at the writing, or at the kits (I'm actually super pleased that Violetkit is the ShadowClan POV but I simply DETEST Pinenose. Imagine a sort of godless hybrid of Lizardstripe and Millie, except also kinda lifeless like Tawnypelt now. I'm curious to see how this affects Violetkit's development actually, I'm curious to see if meeting Twigkit too much adds drama too. I'm a drama succubus, but I hate her as a character right now. I'm actually hoping she gets a Whiteclaw sort of death, because... well, it suits the tone of AVOS so far. |
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Post by smilii on Aug 14, 2016 9:29:04 GMT -5
Hey, a bit of non-salt here that will make everyone else salty- I think Ashfur should be in StarClan. This is because of how I imagine StarClan's judgement works.
According to my theory, the cats of StarClan look at every action a cat did in their life and label it as 'good' or 'bad'. They also rate it on a scale of how bad it was, so that murdering kittens is worse than tripping up someone the cat disliked. Over Ashfur's life, he served his Clan well and decided not to antagonise Brambleclaw for loving Squirrelflight. This means that his good actions only just weighed in as more than his bad ones- so he was begrudgingly let into StarClan.
However, Thistleclaw did lots of very little bad things and not many good ones, which added up to send him to the Dark Forest.
Thoughts?
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 14, 2016 9:43:35 GMT -5
Hey, a bit of non-salt here that will make everyone else salty- I think Ashfur should be in StarClan. This is because of how I imagine StarClan's judgement works. According to my theory, the cats of StarClan look at every action a cat did in their life and label it as 'good' or 'bad'. They also rate it on a scale of how bad it was, so that murdering kittens is worse than tripping up someone the cat disliked. Over Ashfur's life, he served his Clan well and decided not to antagonise Brambleclaw for loving Squirrelflight. This means that his good actions only just weighed in as more than his bad ones- so he was begrudgingly let into StarClan. However, Thistleclaw did lots of very little bad things and not many good ones, which added up to send him to the Dark Forest. Thoughts? Hm serving your Clan well is expected from a warrior. And lots of DF cats did that such as Tigerstar, Thistleclaw and Mapleshade to some extent. But the fact that they did bad things to hurt others and had no problem with doing so whatsoever is questionable to what they're true intentions are. Tigerclaw was probably serving his Clan well to appeal to his Clanmates and leader but it was all a mask of deception. Mapleshade just seemed to actually have a normal life be a deputy somedy but she ruined her own life with a mistake she did and then gets bitter about it blames other for it. But still went to the DF nonetheless. He didn't antagonize Bramblestar because he wasn't his target. Squirrelfight was. He did however target a Clan leader, and a medicince cat. Two important figures in Clan life. That doesn't really serve your Clan. Especially when he also tried to wipe out his former-apprentice and another warrior. He put four other cats life in danger intentionally to hurt someone else.What did Thistleclaw do that was so bad. He was predicted to be a bad leader but that's very unfair to be taken as responsible for actions you haven't even done yet. |
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